FIRSTLY, THAT WEAKENED SUKUNA WAS STILL VERY CLEARLY ABOVE HH IN SPEED.
Supersonic+ for base, and upscaling to Transonic for MBA(x1.23 gap) seems good to me.
First link broke
fixed now
DISREGARDING meguna STATS FOR NOW, PRETTY SURE MBA SHOULD ALSO scale TO True Form SUKUNA AS HE WAS ABLE TO REACT and KEEP UP WITH HIM IN EVERY PHYSICAL ALTERCATION (speed only), EVEN WHEN SUKUNA USED Kamutoke's LIGHTNING AS A smoke-screen TO GO BEHIND KASHIMO, Kashimo WAS STILL ABLE TO REACT AND TURN AROUND BEFORE SUKUNA COULD REACH HIM.
tell em again!!DISREGARDING meguna STATS FOR NOW, PRETTY SURE MBA SHOULD scale TO True Form SUKUNA AS HE WAS ABLE TO REACT and KEEP UP WITH HIM IN EVERY PHYSICAL ALTERCATION (speed only), EVEN WHEN SUKUNA USED Kamutoke's LIGHTNING AS A smoke-screen TO GO BEHIND KASHIMO, Kashimo WAS STILL ABLE TO REACT AND TURN AROUND BEFORE SUKUNA COULD REACH HIM.
They're not all equal in all stats but they're still relative to each other enough that they should still scale. Besides Yuta has statements like him being basically the head and leading force behind the heavy hitters and Sukuna considering Yuta to be his next main dish after Gojo despite having directly experienced what Maki was capable of from his previous fight with her.
Fair point on those but I'll just wait for others opinions on that cause I know some people believe that Yuta was basically sandbagging/holding back for most of the fight to a degree
I thought of that while setting this up but my main gripe with that idea was if we upscale Naoya to a blitz level above Mach 0.73 then it would make Maki using that speed to hit him somewhat inconsistent cause it would be a blitz level above if that makes sense.
They're based on anime scaling which iirc someone was going to work on removing and changing to fit the rest of the stats. Was going to leave that stuff for whoever made that crt. However given the current state of JJK on the wiki I have no clue when that's happening.
Bro's not using all caps for everything. He's getting weakerDISREGARDING meguna STATS FOR NOW, PRETTY SURE MBA SHOULD scale TO True Form SUKUNA AS HE WAS ABLE TO REACT and KEEP UP WITH HIM IN EVERY PHYSICAL ALTERCATION (speed only), EVEN WHEN SUKUNA USED Kamutoke's LIGHTNING AS A smoke-screen TO GO BEHIND KASHIMO, Kashimo WAS STILL ABLE TO REACT AND TURN AROUND BEFORE SUKUNA COULD REACH HIM.
cant believe some words are lower case, he glitchedDISREGARDING meguna STATS FOR NOW, PRETTY SURE MBA SHOULD ALSO scale TO True Form SUKUNA AS HE WAS ABLE TO REACT and KEEP UP WITH HIM IN EVERY PHYSICAL ALTERCATION (speed only), EVEN WHEN SUKUNA USED Kamutoke's LIGHTNING AS A smoke-screen TO GO BEHIND KASHIMO, Kashimo WAS STILL ABLE TO REACT AND TURN AROUND BEFORE SUKUNA COULD REACH HIM.
Btw, wasn't it agreed that Naoya need to stack PS for a while, before he can reach transonic speeds (which is Mach 0.9 on site, but usually Mach 0.8 elsewhere)? (Poor) Performance of Yuji against (not even transonic) Naoya strongly suggest subsonic, rather than subsonic+ speed.
It's better to tackle everything here. That Someone still would have work of dealing with anime AP calcs.
why miguel?
thats why im asking, why transonic not hypersonic
Yeah
JJK0 Gojo was hypersonic due to blitzing Toji. Since Toji doesn't have Supersonic+ reactions anymore, blitzing him gives Gojo only transonic speed.
We aren't doing this again
We aren't doing Subsonic JJK again
Mentally NerfedGet bro above unstacked projection sorcery first
Maki “mental nerf@ was rejected
This Naoya is faster than Human Naoya. He was moving at Supersonic speed. Human Naoya moved at Subsonic so I'm confused why the unstacked bit here matters.Get bro above unstacked projection sorcery first
Because Naoya, in any state, never hits Supersonic speed instantly
"Instantly" is vague. He could hit it easily and very fast in his Cursed Womb state, but sure not "instantly" whatever that means. The point was that Naoya was faster than human Naoya ever was, so saying get her above unstacked Naoya and then showing a faster Naoya doesn't make sense. Show her getting tossed around by human Naoya instead or smth.
The point is that Naoya never hits Supersonic speed instantly when he uses Projection Sorcery (he covered a pretty large distance here before the sonic boom occurred) so if he is able to dodge Maki after coming to a complete stop then that means he did so while moving below Supersonic speed, ergo he dodged at Subsonic speed.
MAKI WAS OFFGUARDED BRO.Get bro above unstacked projection sorcery first
Sonic booms and just physics in general in JJK are inconsistent. Keep in mind that second scan of yours implies Naoya reached Supersonic speed as a human against Maki
Implying he wanted Naoya's sonic booms against Maki to do that, but couldn't do so (either due to time constraints, or the environment if I had to guess). And Maki could react to him moving at that speed.
The issue is he could not be moving at Subsonic speed when he did that dodge. Maki states after he transforms that he was previously moving at Supersonic speed, so she knew how fast he could move. She reacted to and blocked his initial charge into her and wasn't shocked by his speed. But when she goes in to throw an attack, that surprised her and made her exclaim he was fast. Implying he was moving at least relative, if not faster than the first attack she blocked unsurprised (And that she was able to measure). The first attack being Supersonic. It's also worth noting PS is treated as increasing travel speed as opposed to reaction or combat speed as very precise timing, balance, and reactions are required to use it effectively, so Naoya dodging a short distance should fall more under that than travel speed.
Transonic*, which he did.
If sonic booms form at transonic speed sure, the point was the scan directly implies human Naoya generated sonic booms himself.
yeah.
100% about what? The conversation in question is about Vengeful Spirit Naoya who's verbatim stated to be Supersonic and cause a sonic boom. Biggestopp brought up unstacked Naoya but then sent a scan of a Naoya far faster than unstacked human naoya. Hell, faster than even stacked human Naoya.
Vengeful Spirit Naoya is stated to move at the speed of sound. Mach 1. He caused a sonic boom when he hit the ground and used projection sorcery, which is why he flew past the ground and didn't break any glass after building up a lot of speed from the 100+ meter drop (which gege specifically notes to happen when moving supersonic), but when stacking projection sorcery on it he hits Mach 1.
The physical distance your arm covers does not care about the idea of being "offguarded"
You can't claim inconsistency when the character we're focusing on is specifically Naoya, the guy that Gege goes out of his way the most (besides Dabura) when using physical phenomena to indicate his speed. You can make this kind of argument for Supersonic Gojo and Sukuna, but not Naoya of all people. He forms a vapor cone (which are not Mach cones but still an indicator of Transonic speed) when surpassing subsonic speed (both as a human and as a Cursed Spirit) and constantly shatters glass through sonic booms in his fight against Maki in Sakurajima Colony when Gege has him moving at Supersonic speed.
You're arguing with ghosts here. Nobody denies Human Naoya being able to surpass subsonic speed, he's the reason we have a Subsonic+ calc for people to scale to.
Cursed Womb Naoya having to start at Supersonic speed is a poor misconception and it arose because people didn't pay close attention.
It's vapor cones (visible cloud-like formations) that can manifest at speeds as slow as Mach 0.8, sonic booms (which are caused by shockwaves and Gege rightly portrays them as such here) start just above 343 m/s.
No. He's stated to be Supersonic. Beyond Mach 1.
I already addressed the rest of this in the comment. The environmental damage for the speedsters are on and off and inconsistent in and of themselves.
I can claim that if the damage isn't 100% consistent. Which they aren't (Nor are they consistent for Dabura either btw). You can't tell me I can't claim there's inconsistency just because the speedsters more frequently cause environmental damage even if inconsistencies DO exist. Sometimes the wind pressure from Naoya's speed shears city blocks and deroots trees when moving at those speeds, sometimes they cause minor or no damage to the environment.
My point was she could keep up with Naoya moving fast enough to cause a sonic boom (Which based on context from the Cursed Womb fight, signifies Supersonic to gege), yet Cursed Womb Naoya evaded an attack from her point black and shocked her with his speed. Thus he would need to be moving faster than those speeds she already knew (The initial Supersonic tackle, and human Naoya). This isn't fighting ghosts, this is me addressing past cases that tie into the current argument. I would rather you not address my argument that way.
This doesn't address my argument, which is that it is logically inconsistent for her to be shocked by that speed, and miss the attack if he was only evading at subsonic speed. I understand where you're coming from, I have no complaints with it. The issue is that if he was only moving at Subsonic speed, Maki wouldn't be shocked nor would he have evaded that attack from her from THAT close up. It also completely ignored that those environmental effects are only ever demonstrated for long prolonged movements like travel speed, not short movements like punches, dodges, etc. Which I mentioned because Projection Sorcery was only ever shown to increase their travel speed. A speed which they can easily react to in close quarters.
Semantics.
No. He's stated to be Supersonic. Beyond Mach 1.
And you're objectively wrong?
the only time that they cause environmental damage is when they build up to past transonic speeds, so again, no issue whatsoever
she was never fast enough to keep up with naoya moving that fast
or
That is not semantics? Being Sonic and Supersonic are two different things.
Sure, never contested that.
Except that's wrong. There are instances where they reach transonic speed and aren't causing environmental damage. That's what I've been referring to.
She literally turned around and punched him in the face after explaining she had been counting his moves the entire time.
So what now, are you opting for Superhuman Cursed Womb Naoya?
nobody looks at people hitting mach 1 then go mach 1.000000000000000001 and say "yeah bro you supersonic"
Like?
You can be far slower than somebody and tag them, aka him running down a valley while all she had to do was spin around
No. i'm saying being bodied by someone subsonic is not an antifeat nor is it inconsistent
Personally I think it was a weird writing choice but I'm not going to waste people's time with a tangent on this small nitpick.
I'll go gather some scans but I'll be busy so it'll take a while. Maybe I'll have someone post them for me.
Except she only turned around and socked him in the face when he was right behind her. She made movements relative to him. That's why she has that subsonic+ calc Sun just showed here (Tho someone I know thinks the calc is wrong, so I'll wonder if that'll get brought up eventually).
Her being able to easy move at Subsonic+ speed and react to Supersonic attacks at close range makes being shocked and easily evaded by someone vaguely subsonic at literal point blank inconsistent
