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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

supertomioka said:
Wouldn't he need knowledge of everything in the universe to recreate it or something
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Do we treat shenron or porunga the same? (Genuine question cus idk) if its knowledge based wish granting then ig but i feel like it needs more proof
 
What abilities can Super Shenron acquire besides reviving life on Earth in Universe 6 but also making its culture similar to Earth in Universe 7?
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I agree with that part
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I don’t understand why @Vietthai96 is opposing this. Didn’t everyone here say that he merged with everything, even the overarching timeline itself in the end? So that would include the subspace and the void. So far, I don’t see any reason to oppose this. And honestly, I don’t really care—I was just trying to help. I just remembered that Dragon Ball is a disliked series anyway.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
I don’t understand why @Vietthai96 is opposing this. Didn’t everyone here say that he merged with everything, even the overarching timeline itself in the end? So that would include the subspace and the void. So far, I don’t see any reason to oppose this. And honestly, I don’t really care—I was just trying to help. I just remembered that Dragon Ball is a disliked series anyway.
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I also didn’t really understand what his disagreement is. If Zamasu Infinite merged with everything, then he really should have all of that.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I also didn’t really understand what his disagreement is. If Zamasu Infinite merged with everything, then he really should have all of that.
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I have an argument that might support upgrading the speed of the Angels—and even some characters in Dragon Ball Super—to immeasurable speed.

In the Broly movie, Whis was able to dodge Gogeta’s Instant Transmission. As we know, Instant Transmission occurs in zero time, meaning it is instantaneous. Therefore, dodging it should be impossible unless one possesses speed that surpasses even infinite speed itself.

Definition of Instant Transmission:

Instant teleportation in science fiction is a superhuman ability to traverse infinite distances in zero time (instantaneously) or “in the blink of an eye,” effectively making it equivalent to infinite speed, unlike super speed which still requires time and distance. It is depicted either as a technological method (such as a teleportation chamber) or a mental ability that eliminates the distance between point “A” and point “B” without passing through the space in between.
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This would be classified under reaction speed, since Whis managed to avoid Instant Transmission, which occurs in zero time between two locations (an instantaneous movement). Therefore, his speed would be immeasurable.

I’m not sure whether surpassing infinite speed qualifies as immeasurable speed, but at the very least, this feat would place his reaction speed somewhere between infinite and immeasurable.

What is your opinion on this argument?
 
Azertyhuuh said:
I’m not sure whether surpassing infinite speed qualifies as immeasurable speed, but at the very least, this feat would place his reaction speed somewhere between infinite and immeasurable.
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It doesn't you can be multiple infinites above baseline infinite speed and not be immeasurable in speed.
 
Huesito88 said:
It doesn't you can be multiple infinites above baseline infinite speed and not be immeasurable in speed.
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Okay, I understand. So what is your opinion on the argument?

The reaction speed of the Angels and characters equivalent to them should be at least infinite, since their reaction speed surpasses infinite speed.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Show me one instance of Instant Transmission in DB teleporting the user inside other people, instead of its surroundings, please.

If you can't, there is no "evading" here, just Gogeta tp'ing.
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Alright, then why did Whis dodge Instant Transmission from his position? Can you explain that?

Gogeta teleported to the exact same spot where Whis was standing, and upon appearing, Whis dodged the Instant Transmission.

The scene is here—pay attention to how Whis dodged Gogeta’s Instant Transmission.

 
Azertyhuuh said:
Alright, then why did Whis dodge Instant Transmission from his position? Can you explain that?
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That's the neat part. He didn't
Azertyhuuh said:
Gogeta teleported to the exact same spot where Whis was standing, and upon appearing, Whis dodged the Instant Transmission.
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Nuh uh. Whis was moving backwards, he was in front of where Gogeta was supposed to teleport, but moved back so Gogeta was in front and could fight. If you superpose both images (I used the background for reference btw that's why the lower part is cut) you can see Gogeta is not as close to the screen as Whis is before moving out (Gogeta's body can be seen entirely except his feet, while you can't even see Whis' hair previously to him moving).

Not to mention, as I told you, there is no proof of Instant Transmission teleporting one inside other people instead of its surroundings. No one in Dragon Ball has ever done such, even when they were at risks with the planet at stake. And why would Gogeta even want to kill Whis by teleporting inside him on the first place? Why risking teleporting inside Whis and making him evade (without knowing if he even could) instead of just teleporting near him like every other time instant transmission has been used in the series?

The argument makes no sense. Not only there is no proof of Instant Transmission working like you claim for Whis to evade, but there also is no proof of Whis evading anything. And I haven't even started pointing out how this isn't immeasurable speed.

Also, iirc in Cell Saga we saw that Ki attacks can already travel some distance mid-IT. So it's meaningless anyway
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
That's the neat part. He didn't

Nuh uh. Whis was moving backwards, he was in front of where Gogeta was supposed to teleport, but moved back so Gogeta was in front and could fight. If you superpose both images (I used the background for reference btw that's why the lower part is cut) you can see Gogeta is not as close to the screen as Whis is before moving out (Gogeta's body can be seen entirely except his feet, while you can't even see Whis' hair previously to him moving).

Not to mention, as I told you, there is no proof of Instant Transmission teleporting one inside other people instead of its surroundings. No one in Dragon Ball has ever done such, even when they were at risks with the planet at stake. And why would Gogeta even want to kill Whis by teleporting inside him on the first place? Why risking teleporting inside Whis and making him evade (without knowing if he even could) instead of just teleporting near him like every other time instant transmission has been used in the series?

The argument makes no sense. Not only there is no proof of Instant Transmission working like you claim for Whis to evade, but there also is no proof of Whis evading anything. And I haven't even started pointing out how this isn't immeasurable speed.

Also, iirc in Cell Saga we saw that Ki attacks can already travel some distance mid-IT. So it's meaningless anyway
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Alright, what about the argument regarding NEP 1 and BDE 1 for Infinite Zamasu (in the end)?

Also, currently in the anime, Goku is placed at 6 universes in 2-C, but he should actually scale to more than 9 universes, or at least 9. This is based on the fact that when three Gods of Destruction fight each other, it is enough to destroy 3 entire universes, and each universe contains 3 space-time continuums inside it, meaning that 3 macro-universes equal a total of 9 space-times. Despite that, this did not affect the World of Void. However, when Goku transformed into Ultra Instinct, he caused the entire World of Void to shake with his power—something that not even the clash of three Gods of Destruction could achieve, even though their power is enough to destroy 9 space-times. So shouldn’t he scale to 9 universes instead of 6, or is there something I am missing?
 
Azertyhuuh said:
Alright, what about the argument regarding NEP 1 and BDE 1 for Infinite Zamasu (in the end)?
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That looks fine I guess.
Azertyhuuh said:
Also, currently in the anime, Goku is placed at 6 universes in 2-C, but he should actually scale to more than 9 universes, or at least 9. This is based on the fact that when three Gods of Destruction fight each other, it is enough to destroy 3 entire universes, and each universe contains 3 space-time continuums inside it, meaning that 3 macro-universes equal a total of 9 space-times. Despite that, this did not affect the World of Void. However, when Goku transformed into Ultra Instinct, he caused the entire World of Void to shake with his power—something that not even the clash of three Gods of Destruction could achieve, even though their power is enough to destroy 9 space-times. So shouldn’t he scale to 9 universes instead of 6, or is there something I am missing?
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Universes in 2-C tier are not multiplied regardless how big the multiplier is. So, being 3x stronger than baseline 2 universes 2-C is infinitely weaker than baseline 3 universes.

For that reason, even if 2 GoDs can destroy 2 macrocosms (6 universes), 3 GoDs do not scale to 3/2*6=9 universes, but "way above baseline 6 universes".
 
Shouldn't U7 be made of 4 universes as Dai-Kaio's palace dimension is also a part of it? It was called entirely different universe and dimension, so why not?
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Universes in 2-C tier are not multiplied regardless how big the multiplier is. So, being 3x stronger than baseline 2 universes 2-C is infinitely weaker than baseline 3 universes.

For that reason, even if 2 GoDs can destroy 2 macrocosms (6 universes), 3 GoDs do not scale to 3/2*6=9 universes, but "way above baseline 6 universes".
Click to expand...
This is a feat, not a multiplier here; this is a feat. There is a difference between these two things, and you are trying to deny the feat itself with this argument.

As we know, the clash of two Gods of Destruction is enough to destroy a total of 6 universes, and the clash of three Gods of Destruction would lead to the destruction of a total of 9 universes, and this is what would actually happen. I don’t understand where you got the idea of “multiplication” from now. This is what is stated in the work, and this is what would happen. If three Gods were to fight each other, it would result in the destruction of their universes. Each universe has 3 space-times, so in total we have 9 universes that would be destroyed by the clash of 3 Gods in Dragon Ball. However, when they clashed in the void, nothing happened, which means the durability of this void exceeds the durability of 9 universes in total. And since Goku, after transforming into Ultra Instinct, was able through his power to make the void world itself tremble, then he completely surpasses the combined power of the three Gods, and thus he should have at least 9 universes in his profile.

Do not repeat this “multiplication” argument; this is a feat.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
As we know, the clash of two Gods of Destruction is enough to destroy a total of 6 universes, and the clash of three Gods of Destruction would lead to the destruction of a total of 9 universes
Click to expand...
... and right there is where you are applying the multiplier. There is no statement nor proof of 3 GoDs fighting causing the destruction of 9 universes, and given how in this wiki the difference between n and n+1 universes is literally infinity, two GoDs destroying 6 universes does not mean 3 GoDs can destroy 9.
 
How do multipliers affect the number of universes DB characters can destroy? I just wonder because it seems like if BoG Goku can destroy 3 space times, and is hundreds to thousands of times stronger by the end of DBS, what stops him from being 2-B? I'm not trying to make an upgrade, just trying to understand the logic
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
As of now on this site multipliers don't let characters change tier 2 tiers due to the reason of unqualifiable distances between time spaces.
Click to expand...
There is no distance or anything at all..

All of them are four-dimensional structures and are equal. We are not talking about structures of different dimensionality, such as a difference between a 4D structure and a 5D structure, where you could argue that the distance is indeterminate or that multipliers should not be applied. In that case, I would understand the argument.

Let’s assume your power is 20, and with that power you can destroy one planet. Then your power becomes 40, and naturally you would be able to destroy two planets, and so on. This is what is called a logical, real-world scaling balance. You cannot place 50 kilograms on one side of a scale and 50 kilograms on the other and expect it to tilt—because that is impossible. This is the principle of equilibrium in everything.
If a character with power 50 can destroy, for example, one 4D structure, then if they reach 100 they should be able to destroy two universes, or possess power equivalent to two universes combined (since both are 4D, there is no strange gap or distance between them anyway).

Don’t you find this strange or even somewhat funny?

Goku in the final saga—I think the Buu saga, or I forgot its name—was at Tier 2-C, and he was already in Super Saiyan 3 before the events of Super. In Super, his power multiplied billions of times to the point where even the weakest characters now, like Krillin or Goten, could defeat all Z-era characters.

So how does his power multiply billions of times over 2-C, while he still operates within six universes?
The Angels are across six universes, the Gods are across six universes, the Grand Priest himself is across six universes, and Goku and the rest are also across six universes. Everyone is within the same six universes, and the weakest angel can erase them all with a finger snap.
The Grand Priest can easily defeat all angels, gods, and all characters effortlessly, yet he is still within six universes. This is something that does not even make logical or rational sense. Even here, Zamasu Infinite is treated as stronger than the Grand Priest, which directly contradicts Dragon Ball itself, which states that the Grand Priest is the second strongest character.

Frankly, there are many errors in these classifications. Everyone should at least be Tier 2-B, and the Grand Priest should be 1-C based on being the second strongest character in Dragon Ball. Placing Zamasu above the Grand Priest is a direct contradiction of Dragon Ball itself and the author’s statements.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
There is no distance or anything at all..

All of them are four-dimensional structures and are equal. We are not talking about structures of different dimensionality, such as a difference between a 4D structure and a 5D structure, where you could argue that the distance is indeterminate or that multipliers should not be applied. In that case, I would understand the argument.

Let’s assume your power is 20, and with that power you can destroy one planet. Then your power becomes 40, and naturally you would be able to destroy two planets, and so on. This is what is called a logical, real-world scaling balance. You cannot place 50 kilograms on one side of a scale and 50 kilograms on the other and expect it to tilt—because that is impossible. This is the principle of equilibrium in everything.
If a character with power 50 can destroy, for example, one 4D structure, then if they reach 100 they should be able to destroy two universes, or possess power equivalent to two universes combined (since both are 4D, there is no strange gap or distance between them anyway).

Don’t you find this strange or even somewhat funny?

Goku in the final saga—I think the Buu saga, or I forgot its name—was at Tier 2-C, and he was already in Super Saiyan 3 before the events of Super. In Super, his power multiplied billions of times to the point where even the weakest characters now, like Krillin or Goten, could defeat all Z-era characters.

So how does his power multiply billions of times over 2-C, while he still operates within six universes?
The Angels are across six universes, the Gods are across six universes, the Grand Priest himself is across six universes, and Goku and the rest are also across six universes. Everyone is within the same six universes, and the weakest angel can erase them all with a finger snap.
The Grand Priest can easily defeat all angels, gods, and all characters effortlessly, yet he is still within six universes. This is something that does not even make logical or rational sense. Even here, Zamasu Infinite is treated as stronger than the Grand Priest, which directly contradicts Dragon Ball itself, which states that the Grand Priest is the second strongest character.

Frankly, there are many errors in these classifications. Everyone should at least be Tier 2-B, and the Grand Priest should be 1-C based on being the second strongest character in Dragon Ball. Placing Zamasu above the Grand Priest is a direct contradiction of Dragon Ball itself and the author’s statements.
Click to expand...
That was my thinking, which is why I was asking
 
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