By like a sextillion times I think (?) need to recheck but definitely lmao
That's too cursed.
Not a bad start.Sigh.
FINE. Currently we accept that, outside of edge cases, power and speed increase proportionally.
Accept that: The story has established that a gap in power level as little as 18000 to 24000, a gap that's canonically linear thanks to the Kaioken, is enough for a blitz to occur. This is also proven true when Frieza, having almost twice his power in his second form, was able to blitz Vegeta, whom he was able to contend with in his first form. So it is narratively sound to claim a gap between 1.33x to 2x canonically allows for a speed blitz. This is even consistent in the Cell Saga, where Gohan was on par with Perfect Cell in terms of speed, but turned a stomp around with a 2x multiplier. We will use 1.33x so you have better odds, okay?
- Goku has a power level of 416.
- Raditz has a power level of 1500.
- Raditz can blitz Goku and Piccolo.
- It takes Gohan, who has a power three times higher than his father, to land a solid hit on Raditz.
- It is canonically significant that Raditz is overwhelmingly faster, and it is also canonical that he is at least 1.33x to 3x faster than Goku to do what he did.
- After training in the other world, Goku canonically got 20x stronger. I can pretend this isn't a story-relevant power increase, but I won't. Current Goku is canonically 20x faster than his Raditz Arc self.
- As established by @Qawsedf234, the Kaioken is a narratively relevant to the story, it multiplies speed and power, and that multiplication is literally the only reason Goku can contend with Vegeta at all. This is yet another canonical multiplication of speed in the story, the story itself considers Goku 4x faster than his base self in Kaioken x4, meaning he is 80x faster than his Raditz Arc self. CANONICALLY.
- During Namek, Goku has a power level of 90000. We don't have any evidence that the gap between 32000 to 90000 is canonically linear, but the story does say his strength increased 10-fold. This power level is canonical, so the story considers this Goku as 200x faster than his Raditz Arc self.
- Goku can multiply that speed by 10 times with Kaioken. So the story canonically considers this Goku 2000x faster than his Raditz Arc self.
- Second form Frieza has a power level of 1 million, making it higher than Goku's 900,000.
- Third Form Frieza is a whole blitz tier above Piccolo-Nail, who could contend with Second Form Frieza, and each passing transformation multiplies Frieza's power several times. I think it's fair to say Third Form Frieza is at least twice as fast, if not more, than Second Form Frieza. Based on what we have established by the story itself, the story canonically considers this Frieza 4000x faster than Raditz Arc Goku
- Of course, Goku, with his power level of 3 million, is at least that fast as well. 4000x, approximately.
- We know Goku canonically multiplies his speed 20x, it's the only reason why Goku can fight 50% Frieza in the first place. 80000x faster than Raditz Arc Goku, canonically, that HAS to be true for the story to work.
- If Frieza is using 50% of his power, that means he's using 50% of his speed as well. At full power, he would need to exert twice as much speed. The fact Frieza uses 50% of his power is canonical to the story, and again, is the only reason Goku is able to fight him for so long. Frieza is 160,000x faster than Raditz Arc Goku canonically, that has to be true for the story to WORK.
- Super Saiyan Goku has a 50x multiplier, consistent with the fact he wasn't exactly blitzing FP Frieza (1.25x gap), but he was still faster, so he is 200,000x faster than Raditz Arc Goku.
- While Future Gohan was not as strong as Post-Yardrat Goku, he was still stronger than a Future Trunks that could decimate Mecha Frieza.
- Future 17 can blitz Gohan with half his power, meaning his full power would need to be at least twice as fast, meaning Future 17 is canonically 400,000x faster than Raditz Arc Goku
- Current 17 is so much stronger than his Future version that Trunks straight up can't fight him despite being able to do so against the future versions. Current 17 is notable for his speed, and can blitz Trunks. Realistically, 17 is probably >530,000x faster than Raditz Arc Goku.
All these multipliers have to be true for the story to FUNCTION.
Now anyone who knows DB scaling won't be impressed with the text I sent above. Why? Because it's literally all in the speed blog already. The fact 17 is thousands of times faster than Beginning of Z Goku is already a necessity for the story. That's what's LITERALLY established.
I’m going to
Unironically shouldn't we establish a hard limit to the nearest feat to stop threads like these to be made ever again, "1000 times the last feat", or "around thousand times"?
Please stop making posts like this.
No, because shit like GoH has support (250,000x amp being the difference between getting stomped, and being able to one-shot a trillion clones of the stomper) without being an otherwise quantifiable feat.
As M3X have said, we're just bantering and we stopped as soon as we detected escalation. We don't have any problems. That third post calling M3X toxic is not involved in our poking around.
Because it was done at the same time. One attack one-shotting a trillion clones that stomped the character before.
Not trying to dis the Korean Goku, but couldn't someone with a 40 times multiplier also stomp trillions of clones since they can't hurt him and also he basically blitzes? (Or did he punch/kick them all once each while stonewalling [before all trillion of them can even move or react] them all?)
Yeah, literally freeza was like only like 100x times stronger in power levels than the average Saiyan, yet he wiped out a whole planet filled of them with 1 attack
I don't give permission for posts unless I've seen drafts of them, so I can verify they add something new to the conversation.
From what I've been told, it's an AP amp that took them all out with one blow.
Single attack destroyed a quintillion clones
Well. Is the multiplier usable in all situations then? Because the x50 multiplier was proven as reliable already, but OP doesn't think we should use it past Namek Arc.
Well yeah, we don't automatically consider Multipliers transferable to other situations:
That's probably not actually relevant with DB, since these multis are probably stated in ways that it'd apply past Namek Arc.
Since 50x has a lower evidence threshold, we may consider it reliable for that, but not if we apply it two times for 2,500x, or three times for 125,000x
Yeah sure.
I see for example demon slayer verse has "weaker" and "stronger" hashira scaling from a 10x multiplier that leads to a 100x of stronger characters form gyutaros feat
Those characters would already be capped by Saiyan Saga Kaioken x4 Goku at 43c tho
Eh if an explicitly stated multiplier is high enough like a quadrillion then at least being portrayed as extremely substantial should be enough because otherwise you're just starting to want the most autistic of details. It'd seem like extreme dissonance to disregard that quadrillion multiplier if the author genuinely portrays it as indeed something thats enough to idk more than statue or stomp everyone around them, because then it's not just the author not understanding that it is a large increase.
We would do that, I think it's got good enough justification.
??? And what's the justification going to be? "FTL+ (At least 43c; Bob blitzed Maria and Jane), MFTL with SSJ (At least 731c, grew x50 faster)"
With the shortened space on profiles, we can just say "Far faster than before", and explain the proper sources in a blog (like we already do).
I dunno the fact you have to go out of your way to hide the reason for a whole Tier change (The stuff you should go out of your way to explain the most) because the logic behind it would be completely incoherent to anyone that doesn't know that VSBW arbitrary doesn't like multipliers over x100 just makes it feel wrong.
No, rather, because the exact details are too verbose for a short statistics section that should try to be relatively concise.
What's the site you're using below?
Aw yeah, it's time for tier 5-A farmer with a shotgun! /j
Ki itself is light. Super Saiyan auras are made of light energy and explicitly radiate like flames. Energy Waves are most commonly referred to as "beams [of light]" (光線 kōsen) throughout supplemental material; in fact, Frieza's Death Beam specifically is described as a "flash of light" (閃光 senkō) or as simply a "light" (光 hikari) being emitted from his fingertip, which even Namek Saga high-tiers are incapable of defending against. Ki Manipulation techniques can generate heat or even explode upon being absorbed by physical objects, like real world lasers can. Ki itself can be diffused before being released, with auras and Kiai being the most diffused forms of Ki. The page for Ki Manipulation even currently accepts Light Manipulation as a sub-ability.
Are 19 and 20's eye beams described light beams at all?
But Piccolo's eye rays are listed in Daizenshu as non ki ability
No thread in the last two years has had people in the general arguing like their lives are on the line as badly as this. Actual ******* biblical event in the VS DB timeline just dropped on a random Monday
