All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[CryoTheMayo]

Ehh, don't really buy that explanation. Isn't the whole point tied to SSJB's aura constantly leaking Ki, causing the form to get weaker the longer it's active? That's basically why Perfected Blue lacks the aura in the first place, no? Plus, I don't see how that explanation resolves the God --> Blue switching either. They're still transforming into Blue multiple times in a row there, if anything that should make the stamina drain even worse.

And like, it not being shown against Golden Frieza (Wait there wasn't even a Golden Frieza fight in the manga) doesn't really prove anything when Frieza himself had stamina issues withhis Golden Form too, so both of them could've been getting massively weaker over the course of the fight and we wouldn't notice.

I didn't state Blue wasn't inefficient in fights. I said the main drop in power is from transforming into it multiple times a day. Big difference. Goku states Vegeta's power doesn't drop from entering Blue consecutively because he 'trained that hard'.

Along with that, the RoF movie is treated as canon to the manga continuity. There are no contradictions for it and we see Shisami is used in the flashbacks while Tagoma is gone. Toyotaro also wrote a promotional manga for RoF and told readers to watch the movie.

Hmm, I dunno. Wasn't Perfect Blue Goku (Blue without the Stamina weakness, a.k.a. just a x50 multiplier) fighting pretty evenly with Fused Zamasu?

If you compare Vegeta, Trunks and Goku's scaling in that arc you will quickly realise Goku's power toward the end of the Black Saga is unjustified. He just does it.

Honestly if we treat all SSJB showings before they unlocked Perfected Blue as an unknown amp due to its stamina issues it would fix the inconsistency that's the God to Blue thing being a viable thing despite, ya know, everyone they fight being x50 faster than God and as such blitzing them?

Wait didn't that straight-up happen against Fused Zamasu lol

There is no inconsistency. You are conflating the strain of transforming into it multiple times with the strain of transforming into it once and using it for a full fight. If the strain of using the form were nearly as bad as the strain of transforming into it, then it would be completely pointless to ever use it over God.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

then shouldn't Vegeta one-shot Black Goku? Black has a similiar speed to God Vegeta, then if ki=speed=AP they should be similiar in power level too, so Vegeta Blue>(50×)>Black>=Vegeta God, but in the actual fight the gap doesn't seem that high

...No. Because Vegeta is going Blue in invisible bursts. Like Goku using the X10 Kaio-Ken against Freeza so fast that it's invisible to the reader.

 

[JirensMom]

What thread did DBH get Paraconsistent Physiology back?

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

What thread did DBH get Paraconsistent Physiology back?

Vietthai probably hasn’t had the chance to get rid of it. A thread was already accepted where it was removed so another thread is redundant I’ll probably remind Vietthai to remove it today on discord.

 

[Entity]

...No. Because Vegeta is going Blue in invisible bursts. Like Goku using the X10 Kaio-Ken against Freeza so fast that it's invisible to the reader.

yes, but he should still oneshot since he becomes 50 times stronger than Black and Black sees the trick only after a while and doesn't statue Vegeta while he stays in God form, so he's not that far from Vegeta God form in terms of power

 

[CryoTheMayo]

yes, but he should still oneshot since he becomes 50 times stronger than Black and Black sees the trick only after a while and doesn't statue Vegeta while he stays in God form, so he's not that far from Vegeta God form in terms of power

• Post-Zenkai SS1 Black matched and overwhelmed SSB Vegeta. This is after Vegeta used senzu beans repeatedly to be at full power.
• Black then unlocks Rose and explicitly explains it is the same form as Blue. So it would be 50x God.
• Vegeta trains a year in the Time Chamber.
• Vegeta then overwhelms Rose Black by storing the power of Blue in God and exploding it against Rose Black in invisible bursts. Minimising the strain while maximising his speed and power.
• At no point would Black or Vegeta be able to 'one shot' here.

Black specifically notes Vegeta's speed and power are much greater than they should be and is questioning how he is doing it as a 'mere' Super Saiyan God.

I feel like I need to refresh people's minds here as well. SSGSS is explained to be, essentially, a Super Saiyan God turning Super Saiyan. In other words, it's essentially Super Saiyan 1 with God Ki. This is how Goku phrases it in Resurrection 'F'.

 

[AguilaR202]

yes, but he should still oneshot since he becomes 50 times stronger than Black and Black sees the trick only after a while and doesn't statue Vegeta while he stays in God form, so he's not that far from Vegeta God form in terms of power

That particular Gap is exaggerated, Rose Black isn’t 50x weaker than post RosAT Blue Vegeta but somewhere in between.

Heck I’d say Rose could be a 7 to SSB Vegetas 50 and the scene would still work in the same fashion as neither one is curbing the others’ comparative lower power as a 50x gap would allow

1*7*7 = 49 so Rose is 7x SSG and SSB is 7x Rose.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Along with that, the RoF movie is treated as canon to the manga continuity. There are no contradictions for it and we see Shisami is used in the flashbacks while Tagoma is gone. Toyotaro also wrote a promotional manga for RoF and told readers to watch the movie.

Again, it’s kinda the same situation as Namek. We know Grade 1 SSJ had stamina issues too (Obviously nowhere near as severe as SSJB’s, but still) yet we never really notice it during Goku vs Frieza because Frieza himself had even WORSE stamina problems.

I didn't state Blue wasn't inefficient in fights. I said the main drop in power is from transforming into it multiple times a day. Big difference. Goku states Vegeta's power doesn't drop from entering Blue consecutively because he 'trained that hard'.

There is no inconsistency. You are conflating the strain of transforming into it multiple times with the strain of transforming into it once and using it for a full fight. If the strain of using the form were nearly as bad as the strain of transforming into it, then it would be completely pointless to ever use it over God.

I'll take your word on Vegeta overcoming the transformation drain by "training that hard" (I'm still a skeptical cause why did they all act like Vegeta was such an idiot for something he could do nothing about lol)

SSJB leaking massive amounts of Ki while active is treated as such a huge issue that when Goku unlocked literally just Blue again but without the drain, he goes from being stomped and being seen as frozen to actually throwing hands with Fused Zamasu.
Like me thinking standard Blue should be an unquantifiable amp over God isn't just based on Vegeta vs. Hit.

If you compare Vegeta, Trunks and Goku's scaling in that arc you will quickly realise Goku's power toward the end of the Black Saga is unjustified. He just does it.

This cause of Vegeta training a ton and Goku still somewhat being his equal despite that?
Anime sorta also does that, think we just should just accept that those two will always be on-par with each other no matter what training they do lol

Still besides that, Perfected Blue being the only "true" x50 multiplier over God would explain why Goku Black wasn't decimating the shit out of God Vegeta despite being able to survive continuous hits from his standard SSJB form without a ton of drain. Fused Zamasu being such a weak fusion could also just be explained by Zamasu being such a bum in the Manga (We know Fusions are weaker when one side is wayyy stronger than the other, see Goku thinking fusing with Hercule would make his 1000 into 1001)

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I'll take your word on Vegeta overcoming the transformation drain by "training that hard" (I'm still a skeptical cause why did they all act like Vegeta was just an idiot for something he could do nothing about lol)

It is literally stated he trained hard enough for it to not drain.

SSJB leaking massive amounts of Ki while active is treated as such a huge issue that when Goku unlocked literally just Blue again, but without it. He went from being stomped and being seen as frozen to actually throwing hands with Fused Zamasu.
Like me thinking standard Blue should be an unquantifiable amp over God isn't just based on Vegeta vs. Hit.

I am not denying that. I am stating the sharp drop in power (to being weaker than God) is from repeated transformations without training yourself adequately. The passive drain of Blue is unknown. It's just high enough to make a big difference. Again. Why would they use Blue over God in any fight if Blue became weaker than it in a few seconds of fighting? Whis specifically explains the issue is repeated transformations a day that caused that drop in power.

Still besides that, Perfected Blue being the only "true" x50 multiplier over God would explain why Goku Black wasn't decimating the shit out of God Vegeta despite being able to survive continuous hits from standard SSJB without a ton of drain. Fused Zamasu being such a weak fusion could also just be explained by Zamasu being such a bum in the Manga (We know Fusions are weaker when one side is wayyy stronger than the other, see Goku thinking fusing with Hercule would make his 1000 into 1001)

Black doesn't believe God Vegeta should be that capable. Trunks doesn't think it makes sense. Black realises Vegeta was transforming the entire time and this is how he was so fast and powerful. It is the entire narrative of the fight that God Vegeta fighting at that level is completely incomprehensible to the characters. That's why the twist of Vegeta turning Blue invisibly the entire time exists. To make the reader guess and surprise them. Again, Black specifically comments on the speed and power of God Vegeta and questions how it is even possible. That's to build up to the reveal of Vegeta using Blue the entire time.

In summary, Blue's peak power is 50x God. Because it is God going Super Saiyan. Blue drains the user's power. Vegeta bypasses this by using Blue in invisible bursts from God. Without a lot of training, transforming multiple times a day drains the majority of their power. The passive drain once they are in the form is not nearly as bad as the drop from multiple transformations. Vegeta trained himself to not lose power from transforming. Goku trained himself to not lose power from using Blue full stop.

 

[Gp972]

I dunno what you're going on about. Zarbon is a transforming-type alien. He suppresses his full power, which includes his strength and speed and all of his other physical stats, by physically transforming. The gap between his normal state and his dormant stats is simply several times.

I mean that it has mentions of increasing his strength and speef

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It is literally stated he trained hard enough for it to not drain.

Neat.

I am not denying that. I am stating the sharp drop in power (to being weaker than God) is from repeated transformations without training yourself adequately. The passive drain of Blue is unknown. It's just high enough to make a big difference... Goku trained himself to not lose power from using Blue full stop.

Yeah, I'm not saying Blue is weaker than God. I'm more against it being specifically x50 God form. Like I do think the Zamasu scene where he blitzes God Goku and Vegeta before they could go Blue is meant to showcase the flaw in the switch tactic, which is why both Goku and Vegeta stop using it and opt for Perfect Blue instead, which is shown to be better cause it can fight on-par with Zamasu you know?

Like is Goku Black weaker than standard Blue Vegeta at his max? Yes. Is he so much weaker/slower that he couldn't easily blitz God Vegeta before he could even think of doing it? No way unless Blue just isn't that much faster than God.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

what is the power level difference between base Zarbon and Transformed Zarbon?

Dragon Ball Landmark says his power and speed increase "several times", but a legitimate multiplier was denied because his Battle Power only increased from 24,000 to 30,000, which is only a difference of 1.25x (as opposed to 2x or even 3x).

Wait his Power level doesn't even double even tho his strength and speed do? Isn't that proof that Ki isn't directly 1:1 raised when one stat is raised? Else Zarbon would have to be higher than that

Could be referring to his physical stats exclusively. In his normal form, Zarbon's opening move versus Vegeta was his Full Power Energy Wave, but after transforming, he only ever uses an energy attack as a decoy, near-exclusively overwhelming his opponent with his sheer size and brute strength and employing full-body charges and grapples. Granted, he also only fights a grand total of two times, but I digress.

 

[Gp972]

Dragon Ball Landmark says his power and speed increase "several times", but a legitimate multiplier was denied because his Battle Power only increased from 24,000 to 30,000, which is only a difference of 1.25x (as opposed to 2x or even 3x).

As far as i know, there was no power level of Zarbon transformed

 

[Breadbear83]

Dragon Ball Landmark says his power and speed increase "several times", but a legitimate multiplier was denied because his Battle Power only increased from 24,000 to 30,000, which is only a difference of 1.25x (as opposed to 2x or even 3x).

Could be referring to his physical stats exclusively. In his normal form, Zarbon's opening move versus Vegeta was his Full Power Energy Wave, but after transforming, he only ever uses an energy attack as a decoy, near-exclusively overwhelming his opponent with his sheer size and brute strength and employing full-body charges and grapples. Granted, he also only fights a grand total of two times, but I digress.

Ain't the only places that says his transformed form power level these ones:
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels#:~:text=Zarbon (Monster Form,Goku Gekitōden

They aren't even the original manga nor the daizensu, we get base zarbon power level of 23000 from daizensu 7, which is accurate at at least putting him above Vegeta being 18000

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Ain't the only places that says his transformed form power level these ones:
https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Power_Levels#:~:text=Zarbon (Monster Form,Goku Gekitōden

They aren't even the original manga nor the daizensu, we get base zarbon power level of 23000 from daizensu 7, which is accurate at at least putting him above Vegeta being 18000

Vegeta (Vs. Recoome), the same one that stomped Transformed Zarbon, had a PL of 30,000.

 

[Dust_Collector]

As far as i know, there was no power level of Zarbon transformed

Yeah he was never given one, but his transformed state can't be any higher than about 30,000 since that's what Vegeta's power level was after recovering from his fight fight with Zarbon

 

[Gp972]

Yeah he was never given one, but his transformed state can't be any higher than about 30,000 since that's what Vegeta's power level was after recovering from his fight fight with Zarbon

Okay, but weren't we supposed to consider power levels here? I mean, Piccolo Jr. is x3, and Piccolo Daimao has 260.

 

[Breadbear83]

Vegeta (Vs. Recoome), the same one that stomped Transformed Zarbon, had a PL of 30,000.

Oh I see

Even then, for by I see, power levels have always seems like that, if you go from 30000 to 60000, either your AP and speed is doubled or more, but not less


Vegeta was 24000 and got stomped by transformed zarbon being in the middle of 24000-30000, then Vegeta's 30000 stomped that Zarbon, a mere 1.125-1.25 increase in AP and speed wouldn't let you stomp your opponent that hard, it's illogical if it the power level could be multipliers below of what the maths says

Okay, but weren't we supposed to consider power levels here? I mean, Piccolo Jr. is x3, and Piccolo Daimao has 260.

Exactly, farmer with a shotgun, and average humans in general being 5 in PWL doesn't mean they downscale by 27.8 of Roshi blowing up the moon, that Roshi being orders of magnitudes more than 27.8x times stronger than them, not less

 

[Gp972]

So, when we find a feat to justify the Multipliers, could we have them again, or not? I honestly don't know if there is any feat.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Okay, but weren't we supposed to consider power levels here? I mean, Piccolo Jr. is x3, and Piccolo Daimao has 260.

Pre-DBZ power levels are honestly kind of a mess. That said, I don't think we should automatically treat every "several times stronger" statement in DB as a minimum 3x increase. The boost Goku got from training with Korin was also described as making him "several times" stronger, yet it's explicitly only a x2 amp.

Zarbon's specifically doesn't work more cause his PLs are confined between Kaioken x2 and Kaioken x4 Goku's PL, and we all know how linear Kaioken is.

 

[Breadbear83]

So, when we find a feat to justify the Multipliers, could we have them again, or not? I honestly don't know if there is any feat.

Hey there was a quadrillion of times FTL feat of Goku's gathering energy for the Genkidama across the universe in Buu saga?

To say it does scale to characters combat speed, is it ever stated that the characters can visibly see the particles of how the Genkidama is gathering the energy? That would mean they are fast enough to react to it


If we got ANY of the several statements of characters threatening the universe, clearly reaching MFTL+ and 3-B AP, that may support multipliers, but those statements must has been talked a lot already right? Specially for the DBZ manga which still stayed at 4-B

 

[Gp972]

Hey there was a quadrillion of times FTL feat of Goku's gathering energy for the Genkidama across the universe in Buu saga?

To say it does scale to characters combat speed, is it ever stated that the characters can visibly see the particles of how the Genkidama is gathering the energy? That would mean they are fast enough to react to it

I think they already did it and approved it

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah, I'm not saying Blue is weaker than God. I'm more against it being specifically x50 God form.

Which you can't prove. Blue is much faster than God. It's literally just stacking Super Saiyan on top of God form. Your argument is just, 'well it doesn't LOOK like it's 50x so it's probably not'. Pure vibes. No concrete evidence or scaling. It's even more apparent in the anime.

Like I do think the Zamasu scene where he blitzes God Goku and Vegeta before they could go Blue is meant to showcase the flaw in the switch tactic, which is why both Goku and Vegeta stop using it and opt for Perfect Blue instead, which is shown to be better cause it can fight on-par with Zamasu you know?

Yes, since Perfected Blue is literally just 100x percent of normal Blue all the time. At least as long as their bodies last.

 

[Breadbear83]

I think they already did it and approved it

I recall it was the math only, like needing a CRT of why is valid for scaling

 

[Gp972]

Pre-DBZ power levels are honestly kind of a mess. That said, I don't think we should automatically treat every "several times stronger" statement in DB as a minimum 3x increase. The boost Goku got from training with Korin was also described as making him "several times" stronger, yet it's explicitly only a x2 amp.

Where was it described as several times? I don't remember

 

[Breadbear83]

Pre-DBZ power levels are honestly kind of a mess. That said, I don't think we should automatically treat every "several times stronger" statement in DB as a minimum 3x increase. The boost Goku got from training with Korin was also described as making him "several times" stronger, yet it's explicitly only a x2 amp.

Zarbon's specifically doesn't work more cause his PLs are confined between Kaioken x2 and Kaioken x4 Goku's PL, and we all know how linear Kaioken is.

Post korin training Goku just has 2 conflicting multipliers statement that just the 2x was decided to be used (several times it's still supposed to be above 2x, at least 3x) they aren't even attached to power levels yet

However I guess you are right transformed zarbon and 2nd zenkai Vegeta cannot be stronger than kaioken 4x goku

1st zenkai Vegeta is comparable to kaioken 3x Goku, 2nd zenkai Vegeta and transformed Zarbon would at most be comparable to kaioken 4x goku

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Yeah it's really weird. Apparently SSJB is so energy inefficient that Vegeta using it for like a split second against Cabba made it weaker than his God form.

This is false, it's leaving the form and entering it again that causes this massive drop, yes it drains ki quickly while fighting but nowhere this bad unless the user drops out of it and re enters it

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Which you can't prove. Blue is much faster than God. It's literally just stacking Super Saiyan on top of God form. Your argument is just, 'well it doesn't LOOK like it's 50x so it's probably not'. Pure vibes. No concrete evidence or scaling. It's even more apparent in the anime.

Huh? I don't think you know what vibes are? My argument for why it's not x50 faster than God is that this fight would make zero sense if it was.

Like you no matter what approach you take for Goku Black's scaling it breaks.

1. Goku Black is closer to SSJB than to God: He would've blitzed Vegeta much like Zamasu did. I think you realize how ludicrous being x50 slower is of a speed gap. Vegeta, who was at most twice Cui’s speed, was already perception-blitzing him. God Vegeta wouldn't have been able to switch to Blue in the time it takes Black to nuke him.
2. Goku Black is closer to God than to SSJB: Then Black would have died the second Vegeta did the switch and hit him. In this scenario Vegeta is almost x50 stronger than Black. There is no world where he's blocking the hits or hell just surviving for so long if that's the case.

Also no shit it doesn't work like that in the anime. Does anime Blue even have a major stamina issue lol

Yes, since Perfected Blue is literally just 100x percent of normal Blue all the time. At least as long as their bodies last.

And what's 100% Blue? It's x50 God. Like Perfected Blue is literally just Blue without the stamina drain, it's not going to be higher than x50 God.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Where was it described as several times? I don't remember

Here. They also say it will multiply your strength many-fold.

 

[Breadbear83]

Here. They also say it will multiply your strength many-fold.

If it's 2 statements of several times then why was the 2x accepted over the at least 3x?

 

[Gp972]

Is the fact that scouters that send information at intergalactic range can't keep up with Goku a feat or does it not count?

 

[TiltedFN]

Huh? I don't think you know what vibes are? My argument for why it's not x50 faster than God is that this fight would make zero sense if it was.

Like you no matter what approach you take for Goku Black's scaling it breaks.

1. Goku Black is closer to SSJB than to God: He would've blitzed Vegeta much like Zamasu did. I think you realize how ludicrous being x50 slower is of a speed gap. Vegeta, who was at most twice Cui’s speed, was already perception-blitzing him. God Vegeta wouldn't have been able to switch to Blue in the time it takes Black to nuke him.
2. Goku Black is closer to God than to SSJB: Then Black would have died the second Vegeta did the switch and hit him. In this scenario Vegeta is almost x50 stronger than Black. There is no world where he's blocking the hits or hell just surviving for so long if that's the case.

Also no shit it doesn't work like that in the anime. Does anime Blue even have a major stamina issue lol

So your argument is..Goku Black not getting one shot? So vibes? That's exactly what I've been telling you lmao. Why would he need to die in One Shot exactly? You act like Dragon Ball characters can't take beatings from beings much stronger than they are. Especially in DBS. And it's not like Goku Black could even do anything to Blue Vegeta regardless. Vegeta was able to take a prolonged beating from Merged Zamasu who would be far stronger than a peak SSR Goku Black. Like I said, this is literally you not being able to believe it, with no concrete proof.

And what's 100% Blue? It's x50 God. Like Perfected Blue is literally just Blue without the stamina drain, it's not going to be higher than x50 God.

And your point is? We can't really quantify the difference. All we know is that Blue does use a lot of energy, and using it multiple times (up until they mastered it) also drained their energy a shit ton. The latter more than the former ofc. But that's literally just every form lmfao. We aren't gonna sit here and say Super Saiyan wasn't a 50x multiplier until it was mastered. That's ludicrous.

 

[Breadbear83]

Is the fact that scouters that send information at intergalactic range can't keep up with Goku a feat or does it not count?

From where you say that? The scouters still likely have different speed for sending information and they scanning power levels, if the later is what Goku can blitz

 

[Gp972]

From where you say that? The scouters still likely have different speed for sending information and they scanning power levels, if the later is what Goku can blitz

I think one guide says it does it in an instant

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So your argument is..Goku Black not getting one shot? So vibes? That's exactly what I've been telling you lmao. Why would he need to die in One Shot exactly? You act like Dragon Ball characters can't take beatings from beings much stronger than they are. Especially in DBS. And it's not like Goku Black could even do anything to Blue Vegeta regardless. Vegeta was able to take a prolonged beating from Merged Zamasu who would be far stronger than a peak SSR Goku Black. Like I said, this is literally you not being able to believe it, with no concrete proof.

I'd personally favor more the blitz angle of it, like Goku Black outright stops a punch from Blue Vegeta here so do think he's closer to Blue than to God.

Also yes, if you can't one-shot someone you're x50 stronger than, that is a contradiction, an inconsistency. Like one-shots only require measly x8 in Versus Threads, and by one-shot I mean fragment the skull of your opponent. DB has made a case of showing us that even smaller gaps lead to one-sided stomps. And like this isn't a "Character barely survives a hit from someone wayyy more powerful and is left really injured." Goku Black tanked a dozen of these.

And your point is? We can't really quantify the difference. All we know is that Blue does use a lot of energy, and using it multiple times (up until they mastered it) also drained their energy a shit ton. The latter more than the former ofc. But that's literally just every form lmfao. We aren't gonna sit here and say Super Saiyan wasn't a 50x multiplier until it was mastered. That's ludicrous.

I think we can? This is how Vegeta performs against Fused Zamasu after supposedly overcoming the transformation drain thing Blue had, this is how Goku does.

SSJB is special in how bad it's energy usage is. Grade 1 could at least hold its own for a while against 18 before it started dropping.
By comparison, who has actually fought against the standard SSJB form? Golden Frieza (Guy infamous for having awful stamina), Hit (He's like SSJG level in the manga?), Goku Black (He's using the standard SSJB form himself), Fused Zamasu (Stomped the living shit out of both Blues, only to then go toe-to-toe with a Perfected Blue).

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

The 'small gaps let characters one shot each other' is weak sauce and basically limited to Vegeta one shotting Dodoria. That's not a solid precedent, especially given charged attacks and what not.

 

[Hasty12345]

I've been busy recently, how badly di the multiplier thread hit the ratings?

 

[Entity]

I've been busy recently, how badly di the multiplier thread hit the ratings?

from 40 trilions above SoL to the rating proposed in the next crt

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I've been busy recently, how badly di the multiplier thread hit the ratings?

I think the thread just got passed, so ratings haven't been changed yet. Right now it's a time will tell thing because the standard is really stupid in practice and right now it was only 'enforced' because it downgrades Dragon Ball, but once it starts effecting other verses and people realize how silly it is, its possible there will be enough fuss for a standard revision. Either that or supporters get the other travel feats they have accepted, but that doesn't fix the stupidity of the underlying 'this multipier is too high because I said so, so no upscaling past this number we made up' issue.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The 'small gaps let characters one shot each other' is weak sauce and basically limited to Vegeta one shotting Dodoria. That's not a solid precedent, especially given charged attacks and what not.

Cui is also there.
Think Tao also one-shot General Blue despite only being at most x5 stronger
Nappa was also ripping apart the Z-Fighters while only being x7 stronger
Goku one-shot Recoome despite only being like x2.5 stronger

Black just shrugging off attacks x50 stronger than himself would be a first.