BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Soulking22334]

Ceros are not light speed and were never presented as such

【虚閃】大虚が口から放つ、滅びの光線のこと。
It is literally described as a ray.

"flash of light"

"―というか今、誰かどさくさに紛れて弾って
ペッシェのツッコミは、最後まで口に出す事は疎か、頭の中で言い切る事すらできず、閃光と砂塵の中に掻き消された。"


They are described as beams or flashes of light in more than one situation
to deny that they are traveling at the speed of light is to act in bad faith

Timeframe 0.3 seconds.

Humans can blink in 0.4 to 0.1 seconds. Yes, they can blink in 100 milliseconds.

Pretty sure VSBW almost never allows 0.3 seconds for "in the blink of an eye", you'd have far better luck with using 1 second

An average person can blink in 100 milliseconds. What's the problem with that?

 

[Torsin]

I am pretty sure there is the title card statement of Senjumaru's reiatsu travelling from the soul king palace to the soul society and human world. So that could easily be FTL for the top tiers. The satellite feat with Arc's accepted end would be good for anyone who scales to or above Fullbring arc Kenpachi which includes Unohana ig.

 

[Soulking22334]

I am pretty sure there is the title card statement of Senjumaru's reiatsu travelling from the soul king palace to the soul society and human world. So that could easily be FTL for the top tiers. The satellite feat with Arc's accepted end would be good for anyone who scales to or above Fullbring arc Kenpachi which includes Unohana ig.

Or Aizen filling Muken with his own spiritual energy

 

[Torsin]

Or Aizen filling Muken with his own spiritual energy

The problem with this is Muken has no accepted size. People know its huge af but its infinite size statement is not accepted here from what I know. The time frame could be an issue from what I read here. Aizen has been sealed in the Muken for some time now, he could have been filling it up with his reiatsu since the time he was imprisoned. The senjumaru feat is more clear cut as we know it happened after she activated bankai and we know it spread across two realms which is accepted as separate universes and we also see the effects of her reiatsu hitting all the realms pretty quickly.

 

[Soulking22334]

The problem with this is Muken has no accepted size. People know its huge af but its infinite size statement is not accepted here from what I know.

The time frame could be an issue from what I read here. Aizen has been sealed in the Muken for some time now, he could have been filling it up with his reiatsu since the time he was imprisoned.

If you go back to the text, you'll see that it indicated that he did this during the meeting, because, literally, in order to activate his power, he had to unleash his spiritual power.

 

[Mommyleona]

to deny that they are traveling at the speed of light is to act in bad faith

So Menos Grande's Cero is as fast as Cien's Cero right?

 

[Soulking22334]

So Menos Grande's Cero is as fast as Cien's Cero right?

cero are fixed

 

[Specterxxxx]

These are not shinigami/zanpakutou abilities. A. These are Hollow/Quincy abiliites. B. These are are fused abilities and the abilities of his zanpakuotu? Weird. But still doesn't give him hax.

so why do you think his bankai which is a combination of his hollow and quincy prowess stacked on his shinigami wouldn't grant him that ability.

Nobody mentioned that. But why would a shinigami's power change?

we have literally never seen his bankai power before what are you talking about? this is like using renji's fake bankai to say his real bankai shouldn't have the amount of abilities it does.

 

[Overvoid69]

cero are fixed

Sonion

 

[DeathberrySama]

That scan does NOT necessitate Ceros having a fixed speed; that's a significant leap in logic. It wouldn't make sense in the series either.

If you want to get solid Bleach speed scaling, start with Mayuri perception blitzing Uryu, who has a canonical perception time minimum.

 

[Specterxxxx]

That scan does NOT necessitate Ceros having a fixed speed; that's a significant leap in logic. It wouldn't make sense in the series either.

If you want to get solid Bleach speed scaling, start with Mayuri perception blitzing Uryu, who has a canonical perception time minimum.

There is also ulquioura perception blitzing uryu too.

 

[ichimojii]

How about use gin's bankai extending and retracting 13km in the same time you can clap which comes out at sub rel

 

[AppleLord]

so why do you think his bankai which is a combination of his hollow and quincy prowess stacked on his shinigami wouldn't grant him that ability.

His Quincy and Hollow abiliites will remain Quincy and Hollow abilities. He has never shown any different.

we have literally never seen his bankai power before what are you talking about? this is like using renji's fake bankai to say his real bankai shouldn't have the amount of abilities it does.

What are you're talking about? Ichigo's shikai ability is to absorbed energy into his blade and shoot from it. His bankai just increase his speed, strength, and durability. A fake Bankai is still a fake bankai. Renji's Bankai look different but powers are similar, fire, explosion.

 

[Damage3245]

How about use gin's bankai extending and retracting 13km in the same time you can clap which comes out at sub rel

Bruh.

 

[Soulking22334]

That scan does NOT necessitate Ceros having a fixed speed; that's a significant leap in logic. It wouldn't make sense in the series either.

If you want to get solid Bleach speed scaling, start with Mayuri perception blitzing Uryu, who has a canonical perception time minimum.

If the cero remains the same even as you get stronger, why would its speed increase?

 

[Overvoid69]

If the cero remains the same even as you get stronger, why would its speed increase?

Shunsui thinking Stark was going to fire a ordinary Cero doesn't imply all Ceros are fixed at the same strength or speed

 

[Overvoid69]

How about use gin's bankai extending and retracting 13km in the same time you can clap which comes out at sub rel

The databook states the sword extends at 500 x his clapping speed. It does not state his sword extends 13 km in the time it takes Gin to clap. This isn't the way to save the verses speed scaling

 

[ichimojii]

The databook states the sword extends at 500 x his clapping speed. It does not state his sword extends 13 km in the time it takes Gin to clap. This isn't the way to save the verses speed scaling

Bruh.

The databook said it extended 13km splitting the skyscrapers instantly. Then we also see him extended it again across the town and retract mid combat while fighting ichigo. So yeah it would be referring to the maximum length. Tho it might get dismissed as a outlier. Since even lowballing it's around sub relativite

 

[ichimojii]

This is just wrong, Aizen never showed fate resistance, in fact he was even fate haxed by his own Hogyoku even after his transcendence, same for Ichigo. And Kototsu doesn't have any fate hax.

That would just give the hogyoku higher levels of fate hax. Yes the kotosu would have fate manipulation since it can send you to different timeline

 

[Overvoid69]

The databook said it extended 13km splitting the skyscrapers instantly

yh u can use that to derive a timeframe

 

[ichimojii]

yh u can use that to derive a timeframe

If we use the speed of a clap it comes out at massively hyper sonic(faster then lightning downward stroke). Then times it by 500 it comes out at relativistc. However since gin lied it's probably a bit slower then that putting it at around sub relativistc

 

[Soulking22334]

Shunsui thinking Stark was going to fire a ordinary Cero doesn't imply all Ceros are fixed at the same strength or speed

but thats does not change the speed scaling

 

[BeTheWay1rst]

That would just give the hogyoku higher levels of fate hax. Yes the kotosu would have fate manipulation since it can send you to different timeline

 

[Soulking22334]

its spacetime manipulation resistance

 

[Soulking22334]

yhwach should scale higher

 

[Overvoid69]

If we use the speed of a clap it comes out at massively hyper sonic(faster then lightning downward stroke). Then times it by 500 it comes out at relativistc. However since gin lied it's probably a bit slower then that putting it at around sub relativistc

Gins not saying his bankai travels 13 km in the time it takes for him to clap though, so the best ur going to get by doing it this way is using a second for "instant".

but thats does not change the speed scaling

Gang it's physically impossible for Ceros to be a fixed speed

1st arc Ichigo reacts to a Gillians Cero. Gentei Kaijo Byakuya murder blitzes that Ichigo. Now make him 5 x faster without the nerf and in the SS arc Ichigo is now = to him base to base, and then add a 5-10 speed amp for Bankai

So ur telling me they're struggling with 1st arc attacks when they've gotten 25 x faster? Also just keep adding feats or stack hollowfication and you get them being 100+ x faster then that Ichigo who could react to a Gillians Cero, and mind you Ceros stay relavent speed wise up to the near end of the FKT arc

 

[Soulking22334]

Gang it's physically impossible for Ceros to be a fixed speed

1st arc Ichigo reacts to a Gillians Cero. Gentei Kaijo Byakuya murder blitzes that Ichigo. Now make him 5 x faster without the nerf and in the SS arc Ichigo is now = to him base to base, and then add a 5-10 speed amp for Bankai

So ur telling me they're struggling with 1st arc attacks when they've gotten 25 x faster? Also just keep adding feats or stack hollowfication and you get them being 100+ x faster then that Ichigo who could react to a Gillians Cero, and mind you Ceros stay relavent speed wise up to the near end of the FKT arc

i dont understand the chainscaling here ,There are too many inconsistencies to make this work perfectly here

This still doesn't explain why light rays and flashes of light must be slower than light itself.
As we saw with Stark, the normal cero remains unchanged even if you increase your power
I have no reason to believe that it’s getting faster, especially since it’s considered a benchmark for measuring what’s faster than it.

"Starting with the bala that arrived at 20x the speed of a cero, more than fifty lights gouging the desert one after another.'
Why is cero used as a unit of measurement if its speed is inconsistent?

 

[Mommyleona]

If we use the speed of a clap it comes out at massively hyper sonic(faster then lightning downward stroke). Then times it by 500 it comes out at relativistc. However since gin lied it's probably a bit slower then that putting it at around sub relativistc

Neither length nor the 500x are considered as true anymore, so nothing about Gin's bankai is usable anymore (outside of Buto ig)

 

[Crobatman44]

Buto's statement is completly separate from everything Gin claimed about his Bankai so it should be fine.

 

[AKUTO123]

Just ask is wiki still denying aroinero dodgin light feat with no acceptable reason

 

[Damage3245]

Just ask is wiki still denying aroinero dodgin light feat with no acceptable reason

Aaroniero didn't dodge light itself. He just had to be faster than the falling rubble which was blocking the light, before the hole was completely opened.

 

[DeathberrySama]

There is also ulquioura perception blitzing uryu too.

Technically, we don't know if he actually perception blitzed him, but based on scaling he's more than capable. Uryu confirmed he couldn't see Mayuri's Shunpo though. Who does calcs here? I've seen a calculation on that feat but I'm not 100% sure if it's valid. Should I post it anyways?

 

[BoastJr]

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[Hasch]

"Starting with the bala that arrived at 20x the speed of a cero, more than fifty lights gouging the desert one after another.'
Why is cero used as a unit of measurement if its speed is inconsistent?

Because a Bala from the same Aarrancar is 20 times faster than his own Cero, which is a stream of reiatsu so it's power and speed should depend on reiatsu level, which is consistent with stronger Arrancars hitting faster opponents.

It is very easy to get Bleach above the laughable speed rating it has now.

The palace is far enough it can't be seen from the Seireitei for starters.

 

[PizzaDante67]

The palace is far enough it can't be seen from the Seireitei for starters.

Funny enough, in the All but black book, this was said:

„在天之上，
在星之上
然后，独自追望更高的境界“

Which should translate to something like

„Above the heavens, above the stars, and then, alone, pursuing an even higher realm“

Is it a concrete statement for a distance? Probably not but i take this over a 50-80km distance proposal any day of the week.

 

[Soulking22334]

Because a Bala from the same Aarrancar is 20 times faster than his own Cero, which is a stream of reiatsu so it's power and speed should depend on reiatsu level, which is consistent with stronger Arrancars hitting faster opponents.

You didn't answer my question , why did cero remain the same even as Stark grew stronger?

 

[Soulking22334]

The palace is far enough it can't be seen from the Seireitei for starters.

if we use ichibe's 1000 ri speed feat

9h 15m = 33,300 s

Distance = Speed × Time

3927 km x 33,300 s = 130,769,100 kilometers

 

[PizzaDante67]

if we use ichibe's 1000 ri speed feat

9h 15m = 33,300 s

Distance = Speed × Time

3927 km x 33,300 s = 130,769,100 kilometers

Wouldnt that be calc stacking?

 

[Soulking22334]

Wouldnt that be calc stacking?

Why do you think that?

 

[PizzaDante67]

Why do you think that?

Since there is no stated speed, you‘d be using a calc from Ichibei traveling that distance and applying that speed calc for the seiteitei royal palace distance. But don’t take my words as a fact as i‘m still learning all the rules for this site so please correct me if I’m wrong.