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Champion of Midgard: The Thor Odinson MegaCRT

Is there any in-universe reason for Thor being weaker in the mortal plane than he is in god realms or something? Like how in DC the New Gods get shrunk by Boomtubes whenever the enter the Multiverse? That would be quite convenient for scaling if so.
 
Is there any in-universe reason for Thor being weaker in the mortal plane than he is in god realms or something? Like how in DC the New Gods get shrunk by Boomtubes whenever the enter the Multiverse? That would be quite convenient for scaling if so.
Good question. Is anybody here informed about it? 🙏
 
That could be useful, but we'd also have to keep in mind that quite a few Tier 1 feats for Thor Corps folks took place in the mortal realm
 
Is there a better explanation for Variability than just not holding back?

Like 1-A implies a level of transcendence that he just never demonstrates. It is never shown or even implied that Thor is so far above beings like Silver Surfer that he doesn't even see them as real. Just based on what 1-A as a tier is, it does not make sense that would "transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness" but then just... hold back to nothingness? If Thor is 1-A, then he "fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states." If that is the case, then just holding back doesn't cut it.

And if it is just holding back, then Blood and Thunder Thor should represent Thor at his peak. He wasn't holding back, and was so far above his usual levels that Sif, who knows him very well, thought he was in Warrior's Madness (A 10x amp to stats). Despite this, while characters like Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer were certainly weaker, they could still combat him and block attacks. That is a far cry from "vanishing into nothingness."

Furthermore, Beta Ray Bill and Eric Masterson, neither of whom are on Thor's level and are very much just normal Herald Tier, would also be 1-A through the feats listed.

Physically, Thor is explicitly bound by spatial dimensions. Now, Thor does say his divinity "transcends dimensions" here, so that could be an explanation, but in context this feat is really just 4-D.
 
Is there a better explanation for Variability than just not holding back?

Like 1-A implies a level of transcendence that he just never demonstrates. It is never shown or even implied that Thor is so far above beings like Silver Surfer that he doesn't even see them as real. Just based on what 1-A as a tier is, it does not make sense that would "transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness" but then just... hold back to nothingness? If Thor is 1-A, then he "fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states." If that is the case, then just holding back doesn't cut it.

And if it is just holding back, then Blood and Thunder Thor should represent Thor at his peak. He wasn't holding back, and was so far above his usual levels that Sif, who knows him very well, thought he was in Warrior's Madness (A 10x amp to stats). Despite this, while characters like Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer were certainly weaker, they could still combat him and block attacks. That is a far cry from "vanishing into nothingness."

Furthermore, Beta Ray Bill and Eric Masterson, neither of whom are on Thor's level and are very much just normal Herald Tier, would also be 1-A through the feats listed.

Physically, Thor is explicitly bound by spatial dimensions. Now, Thor does say his divinity "transcends dimensions" here, so that could be an explanation, but in context this feat is really just 4-D.
Yes, and that reasoning is far from limited to Thor alone.

Either our current scaling does not make any logical sense for Marvel Comics as a whole, or we will have to consider Marvel tiering in a similar manner as DC tiering, meaning that the scale of power of gods and cosmic entities depends on which level of reality they manifest in at the time, for the sake of having it make coherent sense to some degree. 🙏
 
Is there a better explanation for Variability than just not holding back?
One of the first things in the op is a link to a giant list of varies mechanism scans
Like 1-A implies a level of transcendence that he just never demonstrates. It is never shown or even implied that Thor is so far above beings like Silver Surfer that he doesn't even see them as real. Just based on what 1-A as a tier is, it does not make sense that would "transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness" but then just... hold back to nothingness? If Thor is 1-A, then he "fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states." If that is the case, then just holding back doesn't cut it.
It is shown for elder gods who Thor is part elder god, and it’s shown for the abstracts numerous times who Thor scales to and elder gods scale to
And if it is just holding back, then Blood and Thunder Thor should represent Thor at his peak. He wasn't holding back, and was so far above his usual levels that Sif, who knows him very well, thought he was in Warrior's Madness (A 10x amp to stats). Despite this, while characters like Adam Warlock and Silver Surfer were certainly weaker, they could still combat him and block attacks. That is a far cry from "vanishing into nothingness."
He’s already being proposed that his non holding back state varies with him being herald tier at his weakest
Furthermore, Beta Ray Bill and Eric Masterson, neither of whom are on Thor's level and are very much just normal Herald Tier, would also be 1-A through the feats listed.
Why?
How do you interpret him escaping a tesseract after 2 seconds in it and saying he transcends dimensions as he’s bound by dimensions
 
One of the first things in the op is a link to a giant list of varies mechanism scans
Those are holding back or mental blocks. When dealing with 1-A we need more than that. 1-A isn't just stronger than High 3-A, or even Low 1-A, it is such an enormous gap that the previous tiers literally do not exist next to it. Part of 1-A is that it is completely inaccessible.
How do you interpret him escaping a tesseract after 2 seconds in it and saying he transcends dimensions as he’s bound by dimensions
"I inhabit the material world, and as such know only but a shadow of such a construct"
Because they are never treated as being that far above Herald Tiers, and have never shown qualitative superiority.
It is shown for elder gods who Thor is part elder god, and it’s shown for the abstracts numerous times who Thor scales to and elder gods scale to
That isn't enough. Being part Elder God doesn't mean that base Thor is at their level, and base Thor isn't at the level of the Abstracts at all. He is explicitly weaker than Ego, Galactus, etc.


The tiering system says this:

"A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness"
 
I think Low 1-A is a solid tier choice, but I'm even a but iffy on that, since characters like Nightmare, Dormammu, etc. are often called higher dimensional, not beyond dimension, indicating that they are bound by dimensionality
 
Those are holding back or mental blocks. When dealing with 1-A we need more than that. 1-A isn't just stronger than High 3-A, or even Low 1-A, it is such an enormous gap that the previous tiers literally do not exist next to it. Part of 1-A is that it is completely inaccessible.

"I inhabit the material world, and as such know only but a shadow of such a construct"

Because they are never treated as being that far above Herald Tiers, and have never shown qualitative superiority.

That isn't enough. Being part Elder God doesn't mean that base Thor is at their level, and base Thor isn't at the level of the Abstracts at all. He is explicitly weaker than Ego, Galactus, etc.


The tiering system says this:

"A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness"
Was going to refute these arguments, however, relooking at the scans, base Thor apparently only has a handful of 1-A feats and considering the abstracts’ m bodies vary and there’d need to be more evidence that he scales to their 1-A selves I am starting to agree that base thor could just be low 1-A at his peak
 
I think Low 1-A is a solid tier choice, but I'm even a but iffy on that, since characters like Nightmare, Dormammu, etc. are often called higher dimensional, not beyond dimension, indicating that they are bound by dimensionality
You can be bound by dimensionality and be low 1-A, since unlike with 1-A, low 1-A can be scaled to
 
I'm starting to very strongly support Low 1-A over 1-A for all these characters. Personally I will admit that I don't quite see why the explanations for Mystic Realms and such are Low 1-A instead of High 1-B, but I'll trust the analysis of people more knowledgeable on the tiering system than me.
 
Do you think that something like "Varies, High 3-A normally, Low 1-A with Divinity" or something could work, based on that tesseract scan?
 
Do you think that something like "Varies, High 3-A normally, Low 1-A with Divinity" or something could work, based on that tesseract scan?
Well, it is an improvement over what we have currently at least. 🙏
 
Well, I don't think that individual universes in Marvel Comics reach anywhere near a Low 1-A level, especially given the early 1990s Doctor Strange cosmology definition which placed them as 3-dimensional, but since our community seems dead-set on keeping heavily exaggerated ratings, I suppose that my suggestion above, regarding tiering dependent on the scale of reality a higher entity manifests within, is a less bad solution than what we use currently. 🙏
 
Well, I don't think that individual universes in Marvel Comics reach anywhere near a Low 1-A level, especially given the early 1990s Doctor Strange cosmology definition which placed them as 3-dimensional, but since our community seems dead-set on keeping heavily exaggerated ratings, I suppose that my suggestion above, regarding tiering dependent on the scale of reality a higher entity manifests within, is a less bad solution than what we use currently. 🙏
the universe does not get to low 1-A, it's the "Earth" that reaches those level since it isn't composed only of one universe, but of multiple dimensions, some of those are higher dimensional and others go even beyond that, otherwise the Astral Plane would not be 1-A
 
Does something like this sound good for a Varies explanation?

"Thor's power varies heavily depending on his mental and emotional state, and he both consciously and subconsciously holds back his immense power in most fights, even to the point of sometimes losing. When enraged or driven by great conviction Thor is capable of displaying power far beyond even what he knew he was capable of. Thor himself has stated that strength is relative to the need for it. Furthermore, it is implied that many gods are in a lower state when in mortal realms, as demonstrated with how Thor's physical body is limited to three-dimensional space while in the physical plane while his divinity transcends dimensions"

Then we'd have "High 3-A normally, up to Low 1-A with Divinity"
 
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I suppose that is better than what we use currently. 🙏
 
the universe does not get to low 1-A, it's the "Earth" that reaches those level since it isn't composed only of one universe, but of multiple dimensions, some of those are higher dimensional and others go even beyond that, otherwise the Astral Plane would not be 1-A
Well, I think that we have constructed an elaborate fanon construct, whereas the comicbook writers generally seem to treat the "Earths" as regular universes. 🙏
 
Well, I think that we have constructed an elaborate fanon construct, whereas the comicbook writers generally seem to treat the "Earths" as regular universes. 🙏
Not really, since they have all the different dimensions, the nine realms, the hells, ecc..., so the minimum low ball would be 2-A, not low 2-C
 
Does something like this sound good for a Varies explanation?

"Thor's power varies heavily on his mental and emotional state, and he both consciously and subconsciously holds back his immense power in most fights, even to the point of sometimes losing. When enraged or driven by great conviction Thor is capable of displaying power far beyond even what he knew he was capable of. Thor himself has stated that strength is relative to the need for it. Furthermore, it is implied that many gods are in a lower state when in mortal realms, as demonstrated with how Thor's physical body is limited to three-dimensional space while his divinity transcends dimensions"

Then we'd have "High 3-A normally, up to Low 1-A with Divinity"
I think that could work
 
To clarify: "High 3-A normally, up to Low 1-A" is for Base Thor, correct? Are his other keys affected and if so, how?

Edit: Nvm I'm stupid :/
 
Which staff members have helped out in this thread so far, and what do they currently need to evaluate here? 🙏
 
Which staff members have helped out in this thread so far, and what do they currently need to evaluate here? 🙏
If somebody writes a summary, that will likely greatly simplify reaching a conclusion in this thread. 🙏
 
My thoughts right now:
- I do not think Thor is stronger than Odin, and I think that should be reflected. Thor's peak is stronger than Odin's standard strength maybe, but Odin is narratively significantly stronger. He can completely depower Thor, could face Galactus as an equal when Thor can only sometimes hurt him, is stated to be more powerful than every Asgardian combined, and was the primary combatant against Surtur while Thor and Loki were supporting him

- The 1-A end for base Thor should be just completely removed, it is not consistent at all

- High 1-A Nyx needs to be evaluated
 
- I do not think Thor is stronger than Odin, and I think that should be reflected. Thor's peak is stronger than Odin's standard strength maybe, but Odin is narratively significantly stronger. He can completely depower Thor, could face Galactus as an equal when Thor can only sometimes hurt him, is stated to be more powerful than every Asgardian combined, and was the primary combatant against Surtur while Thor and Loki were supporting him
The depowering thing is just hax, galactic varies so he’s not good for comparisons, Thor also has statements of being the strongest asgardian, and considering the fact that Thor varies he could just not have been at his peak while facing surtur
 
The depowering thing is just hax, galactic varies so he’s not good for comparisons, Thor also has statements of being the strongest asgardian, and considering the fact that Thor varies he could just not have been at his peak while facing surtur
Thor has a few statements of that, but it is far more common for Odin to be portrayed as the most powerful Asgardian. As far back as the Silver Age, he is almost always narratively treated as more powerful than Thor. Thor considers Odin stronger than himself. When Odin fought Galactus, it was Thor who fought Silver Surfer, not the other way around. Galactus and Odin were treated by the story as being the powers in the conflict, with Thor and SS as seconds in command.

Odin has multiple times been stated to rival Galactus, while (as far as I'm aware) Thor has zero statements treating him as being on that level
 
Thor has a few statements of that, but it is far more common for Odin to be portrayed as the most powerful Asgardian. As far back as the Silver Age, he is almost always narratively treated as more powerful than Thor. Thor considers Odin stronger than himself. When Odin fought Galactus, it was Thor who fought Silver Surfer, not the other way around. Galactus and Odin were treated by the story as being the powers in the conflict, with Thor and SS as seconds in command
I personally don’t think it should be up to either of us to determine what’s the most consistent between who’s more powerful Thor or Odin, considering the fact that we’re not the ones who read every single Thor comic ever, so I’d rather wait to see what viv has to say about that, as for the galactus thing Thor varies so just like with surtur he could’ve just not been at his peak during that fight
 
I personally don’t think it should be up to either of us to determine what’s the most consistent between who’s more powerful Thor or Odin, considering the fact that we’re not the ones who read every single Thor comic ever, as for the galactus thing Thor varies so just like with surtur he could’ve just not been at his peak during that fight
I've read every Thor solo book ever published. Not as many as OP, but I know what I'm talking about. Thor varies, but that can't be an excuse to ignore the narrative. Not to mention the fact that Odin varies too. There are instances where Thor fights and even defeats beings on Odin's level, but these are always him using special attacks like God Blast or really pushing himself beyond limits. Meanwhile, characters like Hela, Seth, and Mephisto who are stated to rival Odin are shown to be well below him when Odin is going all out.

Thor varies, but not in the way Hulk or someone does. When he is fighting against someone like Surtur or Galactus there is no reason to assume that isn't his peak.
 
I've read every Thor solo book ever published.
maybe start with that next time
If that’s the case then I’ll take your word for it that Odin has more statements of being the most powerful asgardian than thor
Thor varies, but that can't be an excuse to ignore the narrative. Not to mention the fact that Odin varies too.
I know Odin varies, in those battles Odin could’ve not been at his peak as well, but without confirmation of either being at their peak there’s not a whole lot we can determine from those fights
There are instances where Thor fights and even defeats beings on Odin's level, but these are always him using special attacks like God Blast or really pushing himself beyond limits. Meanwhile, characters like Hela, Seth, and Mephisto who are stated to rival Odin are shown to be well below him when Odin is going all out.
fair point
 
maybe start with that next time
If that’s the case then I’ll take your word for it that Odin has more statements of being the most powerful asgardian than thor

I know Odin varies, in those battles Odin could’ve not been at his peak as well, but without confirmation of either being at their peak there’s not a whole lot we can determine from those fights

fair point
The way I kinda think of it is Thor is a 10 with a deviation of 5. Odin is a 14 with a standard deviation of 4. If that makes any sense at all.
 
Sorry I haven't been very active on the wiki lately. I've been needing to put in overtime at work so I've been busy. I'll be able to draw up a short summary for staff within the next couple of days.

On the Thor/Odin thing I largely agree with ObberGobb. Odin is consistently portrayed as more powerful and definitely has better hax. However, the gap between them isn't usually all that big, so I certainly wouldn't consider it justified to put them in different tiers most of the time. Odin would simply upscale from base Thor
 
Ugh fine, so out of the feats presented, the following are the only feats done without some form of roundabout scaling where the character is their current tier for scaling to Thor:

Unworthy Thor:​

This is alt. universe bullshit.
Nothing states this is the length of a solar system, unless there is some wild ass out-of-comic statement you're using.
They literally say it's not entirely their work. Quentine Quire gets Phoenix to quit, and except the Mother Storm nothing really seems to harm her.
This is borderline a range feat tbh
Also genuine question, why are we acting like he has full physical scaling to his weather manip?

God of Hammers Thor​

I will note ******* everyone fights Robbie Reyes here and survives, and Juggernaut was defeated by a specific hammer and wasn't taking the fight all that seriously.
Also there are antifeats here

Base Thor​

https://imgchest.com/p/o24addzl34l
ill do the rest later. Also there might be some shit I missed, but beyond that a lot of characters mentioned have their primary scaling be Thor, or at the very least, won't be the stated tier were it not for the Thor scaling, so I removed those too.
 
Also as a recommendation, if you are going to tack on revisions on this thread, I am straight up going to argue the thread should be closed. The OP clearly isn't built for a verse-wide when this is VERY MUCH a versewide.

This is a long ass feat selection so if you aren't reviewing the feats please leave.
 
I certainly didn't intend for this to become a verse wide thing. I'd much prefer for the directly relevant Thor stuff to be addressed and applied before revising the tiers of half the profiles.
 
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