Make Asgard Great Again

[ARCH0207]

This thread has two points:
In this thread it was agreed that Thor has a Low 4-C, possibly 4-B with the Bifrost.

1. But based on research and analysis, I found a way for Thor to reach that level without the Bifrost. Those who would reach that level would be:

• Thor
• Jane
• Gorr

Gorr's profile says: "States he is claimed to be superior to and more formidable than Hela."
This is due to WOG's statement.
Now, if Gorr is superior and more formidable than Hela, he should also be Low 4-C, possibly 4-B since he is superior to Hela. And Thor and Jane scale to Gorr because they were able to handle it and keep up with Gorr, so they also scale to Low 4-C, possibly 4-B

1. Demoting Maliketh in his LS to Class K because "Via scaling from Asgardians" but the Asgardians are currently Class K, I clarify Malekith will still possess Class M but with the Aether, without it Malekith is Class K

 

[Legion350]

This thread has two points:
In this thread it was agreed that Thor has a Low 4-C, possibly 4-B with the Bifrost.

1. But based on research and analysis, I found a way for Thor to reach that level without the Bifrost. Those who would reach that level would be:

• Thor
• Jane
• Gorr

Gorr's profile says: "States he is claimed to be superior to and more formidable than Hela."
This is due to WOG's statement.
Now, if Gorr is superior and more formidable than Hela, he should also be Low 4-C, possibly 4-B since he is superior to Hela. And Thor and Jane scale to Gorr because they were able to handle it and keep up with Gorr, so they also scale to Low 4-C, possibly 4-B

1. All Asgardians should return to Class M for the following reason: In Thor: The Dark World, when Malekit tries to approach Jane because the Aether is inside her, Frigga intervenes and fights him to protect Jane. Frigga overpowered Malekit, and to free himself, Malekit needs Kurse's help to get rid of her. Since Malekit is Class M according to his profile, Frigga should also be Class M for having defeated him. Even her Lifting Strength section indicates that she overpowered Malekit, thus confirming her Class M status. For this reason, the rest of the Asgardians and allies should revert to Class M.

Those who return to Class M status for this reason are:

• Frigga
• Fandral
• Heimdall
• Hogun
• Korg
• Sif
• Valkyrie
• Volstagg
• Frost Giants

The LS upgrade doesn’t work. Malekith's base current scales from the Asgardians, who aren’t Class M either. Only his Aether form would remain Class M.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I think Loki has very poor reasoning for Class K. He’s scaling to Spider-Man, even though the linked statement only mentions his frost giant nature makes him stronger than any human. It’s really vague. Spider-Man has never interacted with Loki, nor does he have any clear scaling link tbh.

 

[ARCH0207]

The LS upgrade doesn’t work. Malekith's base current scales from the Asgardians, who aren’t Class M either. Only his Aether form would remain Class M.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I think Loki has very poor reasoning for Class K. He’s scaling to Spider-Man, even though the linked statement only mentions his frost giant nature makes him stronger than any human. It’s really vague. Spider-Man has never interacted with Loki, nor does he have any clear scaling link tbh.

So, does Malekit without the Aether degrade to Class K?

 

[Legion350]

So, does Malekit without the Aether degrade to Class K?

I think they missed his page when the downgrades happened. He should be Class K without the Aether for now.

 

[ARCH0207]

I think they missed his page when the downgrades happened. He should be Class K without the Aether for now.

Ok
And can you see point 1 correctly?

 

[Legion350]

Ok
And can you see point 1 correctly?

I can, but I'm not sure if it’s clear enough. The director statement is calling Gorr a bigger threat in Thor 4, than Hela in Thor 3. Nothing in the quote implies he’s talking about Hela at the apex of her power. As the stats are now Gorr could easily be stronger than the Thor 3 version of Hela without being Tier 4. I’d like to see other thoughts on it.

 

[ARCH0207]

I can, but I'm not sure if it’s clear enough. The director statement is calling Gorr a bigger threat in Thor 4, than Hela in Thor 3. Nothing in the quote implies he’s talking about Hela at the apex of her power. As the stats are now Gorr could easily be stronger than the Thor 3 version of Hela without being Tier 4. I’d like to see other thoughts on it.

Ok

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

I think they missed his page when the downgrades happened. He should be Class K without the Aether for now.

Okay, I updated point 2

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[KLOL506]

@Dalesean027 @RoTt35 @Qawsedf234 Your input on this matter would be appreciated.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Your input on this matter would be appreciated.

Reading the profiles, this upgrade was applied incorrectly. Like I said here the MCU has no evidence of a UES or even LES. Odin having a Tier 4 creation feat wasn't accepted as being a majority scaling thing afaik.

So this just tells me they need to have their statistics corrected to "X physically, up to Low 4-C/4-B eith energy manipulation" which currently no one scales to.

Currently the profiles are also going Surtur > Tesseract > Low 4-C/4-B and I don't know where that scaling chain comes from either, since the linked CRT didn't have that chain.

So while I agree that Gorr should be stronger than Hela, none of them have Tier 4 physicals

 

[RoTt35]

So this just tells me they need to have their statistics corrected to "X physically, up to Low 4-C/4-B eith energy manipulation" which currently no one scales to.

Couldn't Hela scale through her AD since she draws enhanced strength and power from Asgard itself, growing exponentially until her power is limitless and she becomes all-powerful?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Couldn't Hela scale through her AD since she draws enhanced strength and power from Asgard itself, growing exponentially until her power is limitless and she becomes all-powerful?

You'd have to prove a UES, which was never done in the other thread.

 

[KLOL506]

Couldn't Hela scale through her AD since she draws enhanced strength and power from Asgard itself, growing exponentially until her power is limitless and she becomes all-powerful?

You'd have to do the following to prove a UES:

1. You would have to show that she can amplify her body with this energy source

2. You would have to show that the energy source scales her physical punching power to the same level as her supernatural attacks (For example: A 4-A supernatural attack consumes 30% of mana in a setting, while punches and kicks use 40% mana. You would have to prove something on this level - essentially show that punches are just as exhaustive as her magicks or more)

3. You should also show that an increase in the amount of energy usage results in an equal proportional increase in both physical strength and supernatural attack potency (For example, a multiplier should be multiplying all stats with the same percentage or number, like all of punching power, speed, physical dura and supernatural attacks getting multiplied by 100x equally)

4. OPTIONAL - You must show that a deprivation of this energy source physically weakens the user and could potentially cripple or even kill them.

The first 3 criteria are mandatory.

 

[RoTt35]

I'm not trying to prove that the whole thing is a UES and I don't really care, just that Hela specifically becomes physically stronger by drawing that power. In addition to what I said before, Hela's Necroswords are listed under Energy Manipulation, which are a manifestation of her powers, and drawing that power makes her stronger, absorbing it until her strength/power is limitless/all-powerful. She also became physically weaker from spending millennia locked away from Asgard (her power source) and restored herself once there

 

[Hacigeralt]

This CRT is fundamentally flawed because it relies on false equivalencies, ignoring character states, and confusing weapon-based hax with raw physical AP.
The argument for upgrading baseline Asgardians to Class M Lifting Strength completely falls apart because Frigga fought Base Malekith. Malekith only possesses Class M feats when he is explicitly empowered by the Aether. Scaling baseline characters to an amped state they never actually physically overpowered is factually incorrect and invalidates the entire scaling chain.
Furthermore, the Tier 4 (4-B/Low 4-C) AP scaling (Hela -> Gorr -> Thor) takes character lethality entirely out of context. Hela's Tier 4 rating is strictly tied to her environmental empowerment and limitless regeneration while physically on Asgard. While WoG states Gorr is "deadlier," his threat level does not come from raw 4-B physical Attack Potency. His lethality is entirely dependent on the All-Black the Necrosword—a weapon specifically designed with Anti-God Hax and Dura-Negation.
You cannot linearly scale raw physical AP from a character whose power relies on a hax-based, god-killing weapon. Ultimately, this thread attempts to force massive outliers by equating base forms to amped forms and conflating hax lethality with raw physical Attack Potency.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Reading the profiles, this upgrade was applied incorrectly.

The logic was that, via direct statement of superiority, Prime Hela would upscale the Bifrost given how the Bifrost could be used as a weapon AND we see what Hela's means of strength are. The burden of proof would be on the opponent to prove that Hela has some means of energy manipulation akin to the Bifrost in order to discount it scaling to her physical means of attack.

 

[ARCH0207]

The logic was that, via direct statement of superiority, Prime Hela would upscale the Bifrost given how the Bifrost could be used as a weapon AND we see what Hela's means of strength are. The burden of proof would be on the opponent to prove that Hela has some means of energy manipulation akin to the Bifrost in order to discount it scaling to her physical means of attack.

And that's why Gorr should be Low 4-C, possibly 4-B since Gorr is superior to Prime Hela

 

[Rex_Eckles]

And that's why Gorr should be Low 4-C, possibly 4-B since Gorr is superior to Prime Hela

Well..... technically Thor never fought Prime Hela, nor did we technically see her outside of flashbacks and tapestries.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The logic was that, via direct statement of superiority, Prime Hela would upscale the Bifrost given how the Bifrost could be used as a weapon AND we see what Hela's means of strength are. The burden of proof would be on the opponent to prove that Hela has some means of energy manipulation akin to the Bifrost in order to discount it scaling to her physical means of attack.

Burden of proof is on the people presenting the claim to show that Hela has a UES, not the other way around. That was never shown in the last thread.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Burden of proof is on the people presenting the claim to show that Hela has a UES, not the other way around. That was never shown in the last thread.

But a UES is not necessary, it's just saying the offensive capabilities of the Bifrost are inferior to Hela's offensive capabilities. NOT that Hela can create her own Bifrost..

 

[Qawsedf234]

it's just saying the offensive capabilities of the Bifrost are inferior to Hela's offensive capabilities.

Where are you getting this from?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Where are you getting this from?

The last CRT, Hela was stated to be Odin's most powerful weapon in their conquests, which includes the Bifrost as that has offensive capabilities as seen in the first movie.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The last CRT, Hela was stated to be Odin's most powerful weapon in their conquests, which includes the Bifrost as that has offensive capabilities as seen in the first movie.

That wasn't accepted. There was never a majority mod approval for this scaling. FinePoint was fine with the OP, but I disagreed and said it was UES that doesn't go to physicals.

EDIT: Just missed the thread mods. I guess it was accepted, which I don't agree with, but under that assumption, Gorr would scale. But I don't see any reason why Hela would ever scale physically to the Tesseract.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

I disagreed and said it was UES that doesn't go to physicals.

Okay, but, why? UES is irrelevant to the Hela, that only is relevant to Stormbreaker's statements, since we know it can produce the Bifrost too. As far as I know, Hela cannot.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay, but, why?

Because why would she scale to an Infinity Stone? Scaling her to be superior to the Tesseract because of a statement on her being Odin's greatest weapon doesn't make sense to me in addition to that.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Because why would she scale to an Infinity Stone? Scaling her to be superior to the Tesseract because of a statement on her being Odin's greatest weapon doesn't make sense to me in addition to that.

Because the Tesseract was Odin's, known to be the jewel of his treasure room, and her spikes are scaled to prime Surtur reborn by the Eternal Flame, which Hela considered more impressive (powerful) than the Tesseract.

 

[RoTt35]

Because why would she scale to an Infinity Stone? Scaling her to be superior to the Tesseract because of a statement on her being Odin's greatest weapon doesn't make sense to me in addition to that.

Hela scaling above the Tesseract and the Bifrost had already been accepted in an older CRT

 

[Qawsedf234]

Hela scaling above the Tesseract and the Bifrost had already been accepted in an older CRT

Well it'd be weird to go back on what I accepted before then.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Well it'd be weird to go back on what I accepted before then.

Speak your mind, if you think it's stupid now, by all means.

 

[Dinobot1996]

As a note, this seems to be the most information that the Thor: Ragnarok artbook attempts to give regarding Hela's blades:

 

[Hacigeralt]

The last CRT, Hela was stated to be Odin's most powerful weapon in their conquests, which includes the Bifrost as that has offensive capabilities as seen in the first movie.

The recent attempts in the thread to scale Hela’s raw physical Attack Potency above the Tesseract rely entirely on taking a character statement completely out of context. Using Odin's quote about Hela being his "greatest weapon" to justify her scaling above an Infinity Stone is a massive misinterpretation of narrative intent. Odin's statement is clearly a metaphorical title denoting her role as his chief executioner and the vanguard of Asgard's armies, not a literal 1-to-1 comparison of her physical striking power against the cosmic energy output of the Space Stone.
Furthermore, the proposed scaling chain of Surtur > Tesseract > Low 4-C/4-B is inherently flawed. As already highlighted by staff members in the thread, it attempts to falsely equate the passive energy generation or environmental destructive capabilities of cosmic artifacts to the raw, physical melee AP of characters. Even if Hela's power grows exponentially while she is physically present on Asgard, this is strictly an environmental amp and does not grant her baseline physical scaling to the Tesseract's maximum theoretical output.
The administrative consensus within the thread has already acknowledged that there is no valid Universal Energy Scale (UES) for the MCU to support these claims, and Odin's Tier 4 creation feats have historically been rejected for physical scaling. Pushing this chain ignores the fundamental difference between cosmic hax/energy manipulation and raw physical strength, attempting to force an extreme outlier based on a hyperbolic character statement.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Based on the opposition's arguments, I disagree with OP

 

[ARCH0207]

Bump

 

[ARCH0207]

B