Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[AlexSamDen]

You aren't able to have HDE and AE anymore, and HDE means **** and all when it comes to stopping deadline from getting kicked in the ass by metaphysical hax, so Tensura should be able to comfortably take the spot

Nah

Range problems

Yeah, the 6D part of Deadline is destroyed, but that's below infinitesimal damage to the totality of it

 

[Nonynho]

unless it's of the "target affects themselves"

the one prior to that may have something to say

• Abilities that affect reality, not the target: This would be very similar to the previous two cases. [...] One important difference to note is that any part that enters the reality, and hence the range of the ability, may still be affected. If laws or concepts were altered to erase the higher-dimensional character, them sticking their hand into the altered reality would still erase their hand, somewhat limiting their attack options.

This should be meaning incon, then
because Rimuru may not be able to properly finish or incap Deadline's 8-D ass, but he can affect all space in his 6-D surroundings making it basically impossible for Deadline to do the same

 

[AlexSamDen]

the one prior to that may have something to say



This should be meaning incon, then
because Rimuru may not be able to properly finish or incap Deadline's 8-D ass, but he can affect all space in his 6-D surroundings making it basically impossible for Deadline to do the same

Yeah, that's an obvious incon, but since Spot 1 didn't get their PP2 removed, the placements remain the same

 

[Nonynho]

Yeah, that's an obvious incon, but since Spot 1 didn't get their PP2 removed, the placements remain the same

Shouldn't they be tied on the spot instead of it remaining 100% the same?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Shouldn't they be tied on the spot instead of it remaining 100% the same?

Depends on whoever you think does a better job at being higher

 

[Bobsican]

This should be meaning incon, then
because Rimuru may not be able to properly finish or incap Deadline's 8-D ass, but he can affect all space in his 6-D surroundings making it basically impossible for Deadline to do the same

Deadline can just erase Rimuru's entire cosmology going by the profile

 

[Nonynho]

Deadline can just erase Rimuru's entire cosmology going by the profile

Rimuru passively and actively affects the space around him in several ways that'd proc what i sent, if he touches his 6-D surroundings he's affected in the touched area

so he kinda can't

 

[Bobsican]

He doesn't have to touch the cosmology to inflict the EE, and even then this is a non-argument as we're talking of a quantitative superiority (multiple even, given this is an 8-D against a 6-D) that'd have relative smurf potency on grounds of being concentrated, so Rimuru can't do anything about it to begin with.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Deadline can just erase Rimuru's entire cosmology going by the profile

Even if could (which he can't, cuz NEP, layers, HGR, resistance, etc). That wouldn't really matter much to Rimuru

He canonically survives such

 

[Bobsican]

Only on a 6-D scale, but not on a 7-D one, so uh...

 

[AlexSamDen]

Only on a 6-D scale, but not on a 7-D one, so uh...

Which doesn't matter? You do realize that Metaphysics don't care for dimensionality, like, at all?

 

[Bobsican]

Source?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Source?

Hax page, the AE+HDE revisions, multiple mods in this very thread

Should I go on?

Oh, and yes, there's also BDE1
Which means he doesn't directly operate on dimensional systems anyway

 

[Nonynho]

Only on a 6-D scale, but not on a 7-D one, so uh...

That 6-D scale is where Deadline can't affect Rimuru without being affected by his abilities
Everything from R^1 to R^6 is both where Rimuru is and where, if touched by Deadline, the area touched gets affected by whatever Rimuru does

All of that based on the Resistance page's description

 

[Planck69]

Only on a 6-D scale, but not on a 7-D one, so uh...

This makes no functional difference aside from range. You don't have more potent Existence Erasure for range unless its 1-A. Certainly not to the degree of ignoring High-Godly regeneration.

Rimuru can't do anything to Deadline but likewise, Deadline cannot put down Rimuru permanently.

 

[Bobsican]

This makes no functional difference aside from range. You don't have more potent Existence Erasure for range unless its 1-A. Certainly not to the degree of ignoring High-Godly regeneration.

Rimuru can't do anything to Deadline but likewise, Deadline cannot put down Rimuru permanently.

The hax page does currently list the act of concentrating a quantitatively superior ability to a lower range as making it smurf, unless that's outdated?

 

[Planck69]

The hax page does currently list the act of concentrating a quantitatievely superior ability to a lower range as making it smurf, unless that's outdated?

In a direct sense of being more quantitatively potent than it would be otherwise, not in the sense of bypassing any and every counter of a lower-dimensional being.

This is for if Rimuru only had baseline resistance to Existence Erasure, and Deadline could concentrate his far higher range variant onto a 6-dimensional cosmology.

It doesn’t grant interaction with Nonexistent Physiology or High-Godly regeneration negation or anything of the sort.

 

[Bobsican]

In a direct sense of being more quantitatively potent than it would be otherwise, not in the sense of bypassing any and every counter of a lower-dimensional being.

This is for if Rimuru only had baseline resistance to Existence Erasure, and Deadline could concentrate his far higher range variant onto a 6-dimensional cosmology.

It doesn’t grant interaction with Nonexistent Physiology or High-Godly regeneration negation or anything of the sort.

So those abilities can apply even when a given cosmology is destroyed even beyond its dimensionality?

 

[AlexSamDen]

So those abilities can apply even when a given cosmology is destroyed even beyond its dimensionality?

There isn't really anything like "destruction beyond its dimensionality"

Because the if the cosmology is 6D, it's 6D

There's simply nothing beyond that, nothing to destroy, so why would it matter?

Me destroying a sheet of paper (figuratively 2D) hold no difference to the sheet even compared to it being destroyed alongside the the universe

It's destroyed

 

[Planck69]

So those abilities can apply even when a given cosmology is destroyed even beyond its dimensionality?

Dimensionality is just the extent of space-time it occupies, not some special level of existence. Certain forms of abstract existence don't care about this at all.

Second order effects can affect them (a non-acasual being would cease to exist due to their past being destroyed, an abstract existence of a dependent concept would no longer have a reality to be anchored to etc) but in and of itself, it doesn't negate all abilities or anything.

 

[SageOfReason]

Hi guys, a bit off-topic from the Rimuru discussion, but why is DBH ranked 9th in the 1-C tier? The verse has reached 7D, plus they've got characters like Dogi Dogi Fu and UT Goku with 9 layers of Time Power.

 

[Bobsican]

Hi guys, a bit off-topic from the Rimuru discussion, but why is DBH ranked 9th in the 1-C tier? The verse has reached 7D, plus they've got characters like Dogi Dogi Fu and UT Goku with 9 layers of Time Power.

Presumably because no one has nominated them by now, the only real competition at that dimensionality is Rimuru from a glance.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Now that I think about it, what is the reason Subaru is above Neo in 9-B? What does Subaru do, exactly? I know the time loop, but that's about it. I assume it is because of Beatrice (though it is optional, so idk)?

 

[AlexSamDen]

I think Tensura characters should be No. 3 in 1-C

KH lack NEP1 interaction and are getting NEP2 voided

Rimuru vs Alpha from Xenoblade was recently made and Rimuru won

Rick also lacks interaction and is either getting spawn camped, if it's Rimuru or straight up gets his resurrection negated by Velda or GHS

Going further is problematic, since Deadline is 7D HDE

Bump

Snip

Yo, doesn't seem controversial

Except for whether they should be tied with Deadline or be below it

Deadline can't affect them cuz NEP and passive EE of whatever that comes close, but they can't fully affect it either, cuz 8D HDE vs 6D range

 

[SageOfReason]

Presumably because no one has nominated them by now, the only real competition at that dimensionality is Rimuru from a glance.

I just checked out the Rimuru vs Alpha match. I don't think DBH can deal with Rimuru due to the sheer amount of EE and EE resistance layers he seems to have. I'll create a match-up just in case though.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I just checked out the Rimuru vs Alpha match. I don't think DBH can deal with Rimuru due to the sheer amount of EE and EE resistance layers he seems to have. I'll create a match-up just in case though.

Can you wait a bit on that

Need to properly implement that thing on profiles

Plus it may or may not be a controversial matchup, but this rarely stops people nowadays
Back in my days...

 

[SageOfReason]

Can you wait a bit on that

Need to properly implement that thing on profiles

Plus it may or may not be a controversial matchup, but this rarely stops people nowadays
Back in my days...

I only just got the notification for this message. Really sorry!

 

[Dragonite007]

Bump


Yo, doesn't seem controversial

Except for whether they should be tied with Deadline or be below it

Deadline can't affect them cuz NEP and passive EE of whatever that comes close, but they can't fully affect it either, cuz 8D HDE vs 6D range

Done

 

[Minaaaa]

For #2 in 7-C, what do they do

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

For #2 in 7-C, what do they do

many hax layers of info 2 type hax , reality warping and law hax.

 

[Bobsican]

From what I recall dimensional superiority has more priority than just inconning for the purposes of placement, given that the list is of the strongest characters for every tier, rather than the hardest ones to kill for every tier, so I'd also think that Slime should just be moved to 3rd, come to think about it.

 

[AlexSamDen]

From what I recall dimensional superiority has more priority than just inconning for the purposes of placement, given that the list is of the strongest characters for every tier, rather than the hardest ones to kill for every tier, so I'd also think that Slime should just be moved to 3rd, come to think about it.

They do have more hax variety, layering and etc

Otherwise I wouldn't even propose a shared spot

 

[Bobsican]

That's only used as a tiebreaker when the stats are the same

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

From what I recall dimensional superiority has more priority than just inconning for the purposes of placement, given that the list is of the strongest characters for every tier, rather than the hardest ones to kill for every tier, so I'd also think that Slime should just be moved to 3rd, come to think about it.

If we're talking about deadline here, the only thing that he has superior to Tensura is his tier; everything else that's non-dimensional structure-related is far surpassed by them.

So yeah, if strongest means purely "tier", then Deadline is stronger, if it means "stronger" in any other way, Tensura takes this, if they mean in a fight, it's an incon...

 

[Minaaaa]

many hax layers of info 2 type hax , reality warping and law hax.

Any idea of the effects of them and if they're thought based/passive

 

[AlexSamDen]

That's only used as a tiebreaker when the stats are the same

The thing you quoted

1) Doesn't say that it only works for equal stats

2) Talks about tiebreaker, not tieformer

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Actual question, though, can Deadline even nuke the cosmology if the entire cosmology is just IM2? (I personally don't think so, even if he is higher-dimensional)

 

[Rikimarox2]

Any idea of the effects of them and if they're thought based/passive

Who are you trying to nominate? Because they'd have to pass Neo first before tackling the godless planet.

 

[Bobsican]

The thing you quoted

1) Doesn't say that it only works for equal stats

"same ap and speed and dimension"

That seems to be the whole intent of the question brought up, given that those are the most relevant stats, and it's not like there's some pedantic argument for this case involving some other less used stat like Lifting Strength. For the purposes of the list it's already expected that a character has the same physical stats as the tier they're being nominated for, so Striking Strength and Durability are also implicitly included for this scenario, for instance.

2) Talks about tiebreaker, not tieformer

Unsure how this is a counterpoint to begin with, as the concern is on breaking the tie, which is a precedent already clarified and used as a reference here, in fact the burden of proof would be on you to claim for a tieformer.

Actual question, though, can Deadline even nuke the cosmology if the entire cosmology is just IM2? (I personally don't think so, even if he is higher-dimensional)

Metaphysical aspects are implicitly also destroyed indirectly if the universe they define is, as much destroying all physical instances of a concept also indirectly destroys the concept without requiring to have the capability to manipulate the respective metaphysical aspect. Slime supporters have already brought up some NEP junk making it impossible to conventionally nuke some stuff regardless of AP, however, but like, that's still just avoiding a loss over actually beating the higher spot.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Metaphysical aspects are implicitly also destroyed indirectly if the universe they define is, as much destroying all physical instances of a concept also indirectly destroys the concept without requiring to have the capability to manipulate the respective metaphysical aspect. Slime supporters have already brought up some NEP junk making it impossible to conventionally nuke some stuff regardless of AP, however, but like, that's still just avoiding a loss over actually beating the higher spot.

I am reading what you linked as more of a prevention from NLF to give hax to space/time destruction rather than what you are implying.

• Only acts of direct destruction, creation or significantly affecting (in the sense explained in the Tiering System) are considered valid for tiering purposes. Destroying the universe at the beginning of time, resulting in the subsequent fading away of timelines due to causality paradoxes, does not meet the criteria for classification. In such cases, it is important to determine that the destruction of multiple branching timelines is not achieved simply by destroying one timeline, leading to the others being erased as a consequence of their interrelated past being destroyed. This evaluation is done on an individual basis and depends on factors such as the nature and representation of the destructive actions. Additionally, for ranking creation feats, further considerations must be taken into account according to this page.

• It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.
• Characters capable of destroying 4-dimensional spacetime continuum(s) of universal scale will be granted Spacetime Manipulation for being able to affect the Spacetime of the universe. However, it must be noted that the physical destruction of a spacetime continuum is not sufficient to grant a character manipulation over its metaphysical aspects (such as laws, causality, etc.) that may have perished alongside it. If these aspects are destroyed simply because the physical universe housing them no longer exists, it is considered a result of their interrelatedness with the physical plane, rather than direct manipulation. Unless the fiction explicitly specifies that the destruction was of metaphysical in nature, no additional abilities pertaining to our Metaphysical page shall be granted. The same standard applies to the creation or alteration of such

So yeah, this does not prove what you are trying to say.

Not to mention, you are directly going against metaphysical aspects such as CM 1, that are independent from Space/time... So yeah, I don't buy that argument, unless actual evidence is provided.


SO yeah, anything that actually proves that they can destroy a verse based entirely on a metaphysical aspect, they can't interact with?