Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Hmm, would BFR suffice?

On the Creators or the Demons? It depends on how it works and whether it has the NPI to affect True Spirits.

 

[AlexSamDen]

On the Creators or the Demons? It depends on how it works and whether it has the NPI to affect True Spirits.

Both kinda? If they take over Demons, wouldn't that mean they're also inside them?

What's the metaphysics for TS?

Also, why would they need it? Isn't it kinda tied to the rest of their aspects, so if those get sent, TS should follow?


As for methods, there are a few

Teleportation to a locked off distant 1-C structure

Dimensional reduction

Building a 1-C structure from scratch around them and sending that one off after

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Both kinda? If they take over Demons, wouldn't that mean they're also inside them?

What's the metaphysics for TS?

Also, why would they need it? Isn't it kinda tied to the rest of their aspects, so if those get sent, TS should follow?

Yeah, but BFR'ing Demons is a lot easier than Creators, though honestly, I imagine Creators would take control of their Avatars faster than BFR becoming an option. And if they do, then BFR becomes far less likely.

As for methods, there are a few

Teleportation to a locked off distant 1-C structure

Just by existing, lesser demons mess up space so much that teleportation becomes impossible, so this definitely wouldn't work on Creators.

Dimensional reduction

Creators can raise their dimensionality, so this wouldn't work.

Building a 1-C structure from scratch around them and sending that one off after

Time stops, and every possibility vanishes the second they show up on a smurfed scale.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yeah, but BFR'ing Demons is a lot easier than Creators, though honestly, I imagine Creators would take control of their Avatars faster than BFR becoming an option. And if they do, then BFR becomes far less likely.

I'd say Omnipresence acts faster than Infinite Speed

Just by existing, lesser demons mess up space so much that teleportation becomes impossible, so this definitely wouldn't work on Creators.

Cool
True Dragon level entities do that to space-time continuums themselves

Additionally, CW itself prevents damage to its spatial structure

The Stat Reduction is there for a reason

Creators can raise their dimensionality, so this wouldn't work.

Can the do it from Imaginary Dimensions?

Time stops, and every possibility vanishes the second they show up on a smurfed scale.

Works on BDE1 stuff and I doubt that the time stop is on 2 temporal axises

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'd say Omnipresence acts faster than Infinite Speed

Who has Omnipresent BFR?

Cool
True Dragon level entities do that to space-time continuums themselves

Additionally, CW itself prevents damage to its spatial structure

The Stat Reduction is there for a reason

Yeah, but it's smurfed.

Can the do it from Imaginary Dimensions?

Depends on what that means, going to need more context.

Works on BDE1 stuff and I doubt that the time stop is on 2 temporal axises

Working on BDE doesn't mean it's immune to Time & Possibility Manipulation.

Also, yeah, they can affect infinite worlds, each with its own temporal axis.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Who has Omnipresent BFR?

This guy

Yeah, but it's smurfed.

For the lower guys as well?

Depends on what that means, going to need more context.

Imaginary Number Space
Can read those two

Complex plane - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quaternion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Basically, a very unusual dimensional structure

Working on BDE doesn't mean it's immune to Time & Possibility Manipulation.

Working on a BDE1 level sorry for th bad wording

Plus their users are rather famously unaffected by Time stuff

They're BDE1 with an effective immunity to Time shenanigans

Also, they kinda lack the range to reach the stuff with their abilities

Also, yeah, they can affect infinite worlds, each with its own temporal axis.

Which is 2-A from that description?

Just infinite amount of structures each with 1 axis

Which is entirely different from a structure with a timeline for a timeline

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

This guy

They don't have BFR?

For the lower guys as well?

When Creators take over, all their powers get elevated to higher levels of existence, so yeah.

Imaginary Number Space
Can read those two

Complex plane - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quaternion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh, they have Mathematics Manipulation, so they can counter this.

Working on a BDE1 level sorry for th bad wording

Plus their users are rather famously unaffected by Time stuff

They're BDE1 with an effective immunity to Time shenanigans

Also, they kinda lack the range to reach the stuff with their abilities

True.

Alright in that case, the verses High 1-A+ Deus Ex Machina [Miracle] kicks in, and that's game.

Demons don't have access to [Miracle] since they lack wills, but Creators do.

Which is 2-A from that description?

Just infinite amount of structures each with 1 axis

Which is entirely different from a structure with a timeline for a timeline

Fair enough.

 

[AlexSamDen]

They don't have BFR?

Ahem

• All Abilities from All True Dragons

Oh, they have Mathematics Manipulation, so they can counter this.

Not really
It's just used mainly mathematics, but the dimensions are still actual ones

Just weird and different from "Real" ones

True.

Alright in that case, the verses High 1-A+ Deus Ex Machina [Miracle] kicks in, and that's game.

Demons don't have access to [Miracle] since they lack wills, but Creators do.

Since we're getting into heavy hitters I may as well ask:

What are the Creators' and demons' resistances even?
I can't see anything on their pages and linked ones

Which likely means they get nuked by the all-knowing god tiers without even realizing anything in the slightest

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Ahem

Ah, I'm blind.

Since we're getting into heavy hitters I may as well ask:

What are the Creators' and demons' resistances even?

They resist spiritual energy, which is;

Info Type 2, Conceptual Manipulation Type 3, Subjective Reality, Reality, Warping, Probability Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation, Power Modification, Existence Erasure, Data Manipulation, Causality Manipulation, Mathematics Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation, Magnetism Manipulaiton, Physics & Gravity Manipulation, Durability Negation, Resistance Negation, Resistance to Negation of Durability Negaiton & Resistance Negation, as well as Magic, which is Fusionism, Conceptual Manipulaiton Type 2, Transmutation, Temeprature Manipulation & Statistics Stuff

But honestly, all that is kinda redundant.

Whenever someone in the verse faces something that is 'impossible' for them to defeat, [Miracle] kicks in. Normally, it's not an issue, since everyone in the verse is equally blessed, but against outsiders, it's just a one-sided Deus Ex Machina.

Whether it's being sealed forever or getting nuked, [Miracle] would activate.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Errr unless the doctor who characters, aside from the doctor, have 12D range kiana might be above them and mother eater aswell

They are outdate as **** (fun fact, in same story where the six fold realm is present, the vortex is state to not only have secundary time dimensions but a spatial one, so they could be 12D, instead of 11 even without the massive other feats)

Likely remove doctor who from the list until the update wave happen

 

[Mbpoops]

They are outdate as **** (fun fact, in same story where the six fold realm is present, the vortex is state to not only have secundary time dimensions but a spatial one, so they could be 12D, instead of 11 even without the massive other feats)

Likely remove doctor who from the list until the update wave happen

Ok remove dr who and put kiana above mother eater

 

[AlexSamDen]

But honestly, all that is kinda redundant.

Whenever someone in the verse faces something that is 'impossible' for them to defeat, [Miracle] kicks in. Normally, it's not an issue, since everyone in the verse is equally blessed, but against outsiders, it's just a one-sided Deus Ex Machina.

Whether it's being sealed forever or getting nuked, [Miracle] would activate.

Didn't you say that Miracles don't apply to Demons?
Which means that they very much can be killed by GHS way before Creators transfer, which means that the mathchup is lost

Though I'd still like TS metaphysics

As well as what stops GHS (if TS can't be taken out) from dropping demons into Earth, meaning that Creators have no incentive to come

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Didn't you say that Miracles don't apply to Demons? Which means that they very much can be killed by GHS way before Creators transfer, which means that the mathchup is lost

Creator would regenerate them from their True Spirits, and at that point, they would already take control.

Though I'd still like TS metaphysics

It is the flicker of existence that remains after one's existence is worn away, including mind, body, soul, and essence, as well as one's place in the Akashic Records (Data, Binary, History, Story & Information).

As well as what stops GHS (if TS can't be taken out) from dropping demons into Earth, meaning that Creators have no incentive to come

They would need prior knowledge of why Creators are invading, and Omniscience doesn't extend to knowledge of other verses and characters.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

They would need prior knowledge of why Creators are invading, and Omniscience doesn't extend to knowledge of other verses and characters.

It actually would in this case, since Tensura characters' "history" is actually a part of them, so all memories and such would be accessible by them, thus they would gain knowledge. This is also how time manipulation can work on a personal level without affecting the world itself.

(None of this is currently accepted, though, so it is irrelevant...)

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It actually would in this case, since Tensura characters' "history" is actually a part of them, so all memories and such would be accessible by them, thus they would gain knowledge. This is also how time manipulation can work on a personal level without affecting the world itself.

(None of this is currently accepted, though, so it is irrelevant...)

I'm noticing a trend. You guys really gotta make your verse more versus battle proof.

 

[AlexSamDen]

It is the flicker of existence that remains after one's existence is worn away, including mind, body, soul, and essence, as well as one's place in the Akashic Records (Data, Binary, History, Story & Information).

I meant more like in terms of metaphysical layers, but k
Since iirc they're protected and such

They would need prior knowledge of why Creators are invading, and Omniscience doesn't extend to knowledge of other verses and characters.

Temporal omnipresence and Omniscience with knowing all possible sequences of future events

If it makes a wrong choice, it'll see it in the future, thus realizing that approach needs to be changed

And with their analysis and Trial&Error upscaling from infinite to unfathomable degrees, they'll instantly pick the right variant




(Btw, is this the longest argument against a non-smurf (in a sense) verse for you with YTSY? (aside from that Rimuru vs Su Zhou))

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I'm noticing a trend. You guys really gotta make your verse more versus battle proof.

We just have so much to cover it's hard to get everything in....

(I would say we currently have somewhere between 10-30% of the Light Novel stuff implemented... And that is if we ignore the profiles....)

So yeah, we are missing a lot, but we are slowly working on it.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I'm noticing a trend. You guys really gotta make your verse more versus battle proof.

We've only managed to get out from the worlds=planets agenda and translation disaster a few months ago, give us time to catch up

We may even be smurf in some time

 

[DontTalkDT]

The question is what is the humanity of Murasakiiro no Qualia capable of? Marvel doesn't count

Yes, it does? Time travel is allowed to go into the other fiction's past and do its thing. For Hatou there was even a CRT related to something like that and the result can be found in the "Instant Learning" bullet point in her Notable Attacks/Techniques Section.

Hatou frankly probably pisses off God Emperor Doctor Doom or something and gets her ass nuked from everywhere.

I don't think God Emperor Doom exists in the point of the plot relevant for this battle. He was a rather temporary thing.
And, sure, I don't doubt various of Marvel's god characters could erase Hatou no problem. I just doubt any of them would do it before Hatou reaches her wincon.

Also, bringing up God Emperor Doom is kinda a funny coincidence. We are talking about a human that via luck & good planning managed to temporarily get god powers. You see how Hatou has similar circumstances and prerequisites, yes?

Some of that seems like NLF, plus Wanda literally passively alters probability (it's literally Domino's power but on steroids), and the stuff about using things from the past doesn't work because Wanda's past can't be altered.

To use things of the past, you don't need to alter Wanda's past. You can prepare something in the past and kill her present self with it.
Also, Wanda's resistance to past alteration isn't unlimited. Can you in good faith say it can't be overcome by anything in Marvel?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Temporal omnipresence and Omniscience with knowing all possible sequences of future events

If it makes a wrong choice, it'll see it in the future, thus realizing that approach needs to be changed

And with their analysis and Trial&Error upscaling from infinite to unfathomable degrees, they'll instantly pick the right variant

Creators skew possibilities and the future passively, and have High 1-A History/Timeline Manipulation.

(Btw, is this the longest argument against a non-smurf (in a sense) verse for you with YTSY? (aside from that Rimuru vs Su Zhou))

Yes, by far.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Creators skew possibilities and the future passively,

That's past here

and have High 1-A History/Timeline Manipulation.

And they would need it to be passive to have a chance to properly come to play against Omnipresence

Idk how BDE1 and NEP History and Time affects this too

Yes, by far.

Cool

Means I consistently can find stuff to say (though I don't know how cool is it to you)

 

[Eseseso]

Yes, it does? Time travel is allowed to go into the other fiction's past and do its thing. For Hatou there was even a CRT related to something like that and the result can be found in the "Instant Learning" bullet point in her Notable Attacks/Techniques Section.

I don't think God Emperor Doom exists in the point of the plot relevant for this battle. He was a rather temporary thing.
And, sure, I don't doubt various of Marvel's god characters could erase Hatou no problem. I just doubt any of them would do it before Hatou reaches her wincon.

Also, bringing up God Emperor Doom is kinda a funny coincidence. We are talking about a human that via luck & good planning managed to temporarily get god powers. You see how Hatou has similar circumstances and prerequisites, yes?

This seems like a massive amount of NLF, especially given that Doom is one of the smartest beings in Marvel, and even then he needed help involving going outside the multiverse's flow of events to outmanuever the Beyonders.

To use things of the past, you don't need to alter Wanda's past. You can prepare something in the past and kill her present self with it.

Yeah, but how is Hatou going to figure out how to kill Wanda and find the things that might be actually capable of killing her.

There's also Wanda just...making all her attacks miss. Like I said, Wanda is a hard counter to Hatou's hax.

Also, Wanda's resistance to past alteration isn't unlimited. Can you in good faith say it can't be overcome by anything in Marvel?

Doctor Strange literally said that not even he or Wanda herself can undo it, and both of them have altered causality on massive scales. If Hatou hasn't been shown affecting the causality of people with Acausality 1 and that level of resistance to history alteration, then she can't do it.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

That's past here

And they would need it to be passive to have a chance to properly come to play against Omnipresence

They do via Willpower.

Idk how BDE1 and NEP History and Time affects this too

There are higher layers of time in verse, so being beyond the time of the universe doesn't put you beyond the time of the multiverse.

Cool

Means I consistently can find stuff to say (though I don't know how cool is it to you)

Of course, I just wish it were a fairer match against profiles, because right now it's basically verse vs verse.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes, it does? Time travel is allowed to go into the other fiction's past and do its thing. For Hatou there was even a CRT related to something like that and the result can be found in the "Instant Learning" bullet point in her Notable Attacks/Techniques Section.

I'd argue it is however, not allowed to gain new, ESOTERIC, PnA for it. Saying something along the lines of "Well Hatou can learn magic" automatically makes the profile not matter anymore because Magic is a bunch of shit in Marvel. It's no longer Hatou, it's powerfantasy fanfiction disguised as an argument. Plus the vast majority of esoteric shit that might pierce Wanda's resistances also happen to be shit that's metaphysical and requires NPI Hatou doesn't have.

I don't think God Emperor Doom exists in the point of the plot relevant for this battle. He was a rather temporary thing.

So she's not going into every time?

And, sure, I don't doubt various of Marvel's god characters could erase Hatou no problem. I just doubt any of them would do it before Hatou reaches her wincon.

You mean someone like Dormammu not haxxing her for slightly bothering him? The guy has a history of doing that to people not named Sorcerer Supreme. Or like, Thanos. Hell Void might do something similar to haxxing her if she ***** with Sentry. There's a not small list of ******* who she basically cannot interact with at many points in time if she doesn't want to instantly lose/incon

Also, bringing up God Emperor Doom is kinda a funny coincidence. We are talking about a human that via luck & good planning managed to temporarily get god powers. You see how Hatou has similar circumstances and prerequisites, yes?

Yeah. From a Supergenius. Hatou is not a supergenius.

To use things of the past, you don't need to alter Wanda's past. You can prepare something in the past and kill her present self with it.
Also, Wanda's resistance to past alteration isn't unlimited. Can you in good faith say it can't be overcome by anything in my fanfiction?

Without bringing up something Hatou couldn't even interact with with her no NPI whatsoever, yes. Because from there, all Hatou has is stealing tech without NLF. Tech that will malfunction because of Wanda's probability manip.

 

[AlexSamDen]

They do via Willpower.

Can you elaborate
(I'm kinda drunk, so too lazy to search pages to see how and why it does things)

There are higher layers of time in verse, so being beyond the time of the universe doesn't put you beyond the time of the multiverse.

BDE1 is general unaffected by dimensional stuff. And I'm pretty sure it requires interaction feats too

Plus, again, second timeline

Of course, I just wish it were a fairer match against profiles, because right now it's basically verse vs verse.

Downplay your own verse

Or help us wank Tensura to H1A (it's possible)

 

[Eseseso]

Without bringing up something Hatou couldn't even interact with with her no NPI whatsoever, yes.

What do you mean? Wanda's a physical person.

Because from there, all Hatou has is stealing tech without NLF. Tech that will malfunction because of Wanda's probability manip.

Yup. And Chaos Magic screws hard with technology when Wanda wants it too.

 

[DaReaperMan]

What do you mean? Wanda's a physical person.

As in pulling shit from Abstracts and whatnot. Above Wanda's Paygrade without even a shadow of a doubt, but again, Hatou's lack of NPI makes sure she can't get anything beyond tech.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Can you elaborate
(I'm kinda drunk, so too lazy to search pages to see how and why it does things)

In-verse, willpower alone allows you to change your trajectory as you move through time, causality, and fate. And if you're a Cultivator, which Creators are, they can just straight up move freely or even go against it.

BDE1 is general unaffected by dimensional stuff. And I'm pretty sure it requires interaction feats too

It works on Evil Gods who have BDE Type 1 and are outside of dimensional structures.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Sl*meverse loses to High 1-A smurfs? Damn, who woulda guessed?

 

[AlexSamDen]

In-verse, willpower alone allows you to change your trajectory as you move through time, causality, and fate. And if you're a Cultivator, which Creators are, they can just straight up move freely or even go against it.

So is it passive or do they need to actively do something with it?

GHS doesn't care even with NEP Causality and Time, it still sees you
And it need less than a moment of inaction


Also, don't Remember ns possess connection of sorts as Avatars? GHS can sense that, cut that, get information from that and etc

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

The dominions have the same thing in marvel and they are unkillable . Type 3 temporal acausality op in marvel.

Just to clarificate, the Dominions are unkillable becuase they are Causa sui and Omega Points, meaing they always exist, and they create themselves without the need of extrenal thing, the 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance you will be a dominion mean there is a Dominion already make that chance to exist, they also type 5

Anyway, Wanda power come from above the Dominions and the Phoenix force (who is the predator of the Dominions), being akind to am impossibility thanks to Never Queen

Yes, it does? Time travel is allowed to go into the other fiction's past and do its thing. For Hatou there was even a CRT related to something like that and the result can be found in the "Instant Learning" bullet point in her Notable Attacks/Techniques Section.

I don't think God Emperor Doom exists in the point of the plot relevant for this battle. He was a rather temporary thing.
And, sure, I don't doubt various of Marvel's god characters could erase Hatou no problem. I just doubt any of them would do it before Hatou reaches her wincon.
Also, bringing up God Emperor Doom is kinda a funny coincidence. We are talking about a human that via luck & good planning managed to temporarily get god powers. You see how Hatou has similar circumstances and prerequisites, yes?

Doom is wrong case to be simplely "human", most of his history have manipulate by himself, the marquis of death and other.. and well, everyone else, the house of Ideas exist, literally the reason why the God emperor Doom happen is because TOAA thought it could be funny

Doom need molecule man to do the hard job too

To use things of the past, you don't need to alter Wanda's past. You can prepare something in the past and kill her present self with it.
Also, Wanda's resistance to past alteration isn't unlimited. Can you in good faith say it can't be overcome by anything in Marvel?

Wanda resistence come from this girl

 

[AlexSamDen]

Sl*meverse loses to High 1-A smurfs? Damn, who woulda guessed?

We be arguing
Not every Smurf is equal

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So is it passive or do they need to actively do something with it?

It's just a natural thing if you have willpower and exist.

Also, don't Remember ns possess connection of sorts as Avatars? GHS can sense that, cut that, get information from that and etc

Not really.

 

[AlexSamDen]

It's just a natural thing if you have willpower

Sounds weirdly alike to Aca1&4
Is it this stuff?

Not really.

Do we assume they do, since creations possess so higher metaphysical connection to their creator in Tensura regardless of method
Verse equalizing and stuff

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Joshua miracle literally make him transmigrated even before the appearance of Miracle itself lol. It transcend time.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Joshua miracle literally make him transmigrated even before the appearance of Miracle itself lol. It transcend time.

Cool

I wonder howany stuff is Tensura transcends time

Hint: a lot

Some are heavy spoilers so idk if I even should post them here

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Sounds weirdly alike to Aca1&4
Is it this stuff?

The whole verse is smurfed for no reason, I don't know why.

Even making tools from metal and being able to pick up a rock is via the High 1-A Fundamental Level of Existence and Causality Manipulation.

I'm not joking by the way;

They'd also gained their flesh and power from "Steel". Humans were one of the existences born from this process.

"Steel" was also the source of strength and power. It was born from fire, and was refined by humans. Humans utilized bones, stones, copper, and metal to manufacture tools and weapons to face disaster, war, and conflicts.

Joshua could feel that lifeforce is a power that exist in all living creatures of the universe. It was not an energy exclusive to that which was alive, but the power in which life applied to change other things inaccordance to their own will.

Do we assume they do, since creations possess so higher metaphysical connection to their creator in Tensura regardless of method
Verse equalizing and stuff

Well, if we do, then Creators are doing it via Information, which is smurfed in comparison to Tensura.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Cool

I wonder howany stuff is Tensura transcends time

Hint: a lot

Some are heavy spoilers so idk if I even should post them here

Joshua Miracle transcend even the timeline plot of his own [Story] (other examples are Ian Silverpeak, Su Zhou if we counted his own ascension). So every goons in the Multiverse can follow that, including the creators.

 

[AlexSamDen]

The whole verse is smurfed for no reason, I don't know why.

Even making tools from metal and being able to pick up a rock is via the High 1-A Fundamental Level of Existence and Causality Manipulation.

I'm not joking by the way;

Kinda expected this stuff
Though there is a constant discussion of what Smurf can and can't affect by default

Well, if we do, then Creators are doing it via Information, which is smurfed in comparison to Tensura.

Then will GHS have even more reasons to be threatened and send them somewhere distant. And likely not interesting enough. Maybe Subspace

He also can sense intentions, so that one may be something to consider

Why are we arguing GHS vs [Miracle] in a 6A matchup...

Joshua Miracle transcend even the timeline plot of his own [Story] (other examples are Ian Silverpeak, Su Zhou if we counted his own ascension). So every goons in the Multiverse can follow that, including the creators.

Yeah, but the prerequisite is Creators actually "facing" some stuff, which may just not happen

 

[Eseseso]

As in pulling shit from Abstracts and whatnot. Above Wanda's Paygrade without even a shadow of a doubt, but again, Hatou's lack of NPI makes sure she can't get anything beyond tech.

I mean Wanda at her 1-A peak fought an Abstract, even if she needed help to beat the bastard

But yeah, and besides like you said if she tries something, other people in Marvel who have access to those few weapons that can kill Wanda will intervene.

Also if she can kill Wanda, Wanda can just revive herself like she did in Trial of Magneto.

And if we want to equalize verses as DT implied, Wanda would by means of her Chaos Magic have vastly superior Qualia.