Top 15 Strongest Characters for Every Tier

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Then will GHS have even more reasons to be threatened and send them somewhere distant. And likely not interesting enough. Maybe Subspace

He also can sense intentions, so that one may be something to consider

Why are we arguing GHS vs [Miracle] in a 6A matchup...

Well, if BFR doesn't work, and Omnisicence doesn't work, idk what options GHS has.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Well, if BFR doesn't work, and Omnisicence doesn't work, idk what options GHS has.

BFR does work though?

Before Creators transfer, he sends Demons far awaythis way, Creators don't even really know wtf happened and don't have much incentive to try to find out via Miracle

They may not even be aware of the existence of this world, per SBA knowledge is only of opponent and only to demons themselves, who are hardly sentient

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

BFR does work though?

Before Creators transfer, he sends Demons far awaythis way, Creators don't even really know wtf happened and don't have much incentive to try to find out via Miracle

They may not even be aware of the existence of this world, per SBA knowledge is only of opponent and only to demons themselves, who are hardly sentient

Not really, your order is off.

You stated GHS would get involved because of the Creators, which means the Creators have to show up first.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Not really, your order is off.

You stated GHS would get involved because of the Creators, which means the Creators have to show up first.

Which he knows is dangerous from the H1A info bond even before they show up themselves, and decides that this is not something he wants to deal with

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Which he knows is dangerous from the H1A info bond even before they show up themselves, and decides that this is not something he wants to deal with

That's assuming he can detect a High 1-A Info Bond, which is nlf.

 

[AlexSamDen]

That's assuming he can detect a High 1-A Info Bond, which is nlf.

It's H1A in potency tho, isn't it?
It's still there

And the matter of indestructible True Spirit too
Something significantly above prevents it's destruction, one may want to get rid of it

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

It's H1A in potency tho, isn't it?
It's still there

All Information is in the Akashic Records, which I already stated is High 1-A. For GHS to detect it, he would have to detect such a structure, which they can't do.

And the matter of indestructible True Spirit too
Something significantly above prevents it's destruction, one may want to get rid of it

GHS wouldn't be able to detect or do anything about a law that far above his Tier.

I believe Tensura simply gets smurfed here.

 

[AlexSamDen]

GHS wouldn't be able to detect or do anything about a law that far above his Tier.

Exactly. He would know about TS itself, but for some reason it is indestructible even for him

He doesn't directly know of the law, but he can deduct some higher power having an influence and decide that he doesn't want it in the Axis world or anywhere inhabitable

I believe Tensura simply gets smurfed here.

I'm searching for stuff Creators don't properly resist

Which is a lot, they would be f'd already if not for Miracle stuff

So now I'm probing on how to get around that stuff

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Exactly. He would know about TS itself, but for some reason it is indestructible even for him

He doesn't directly know of the law, but he can deduct some higher power having an influence and decide that he doesn't want it in the Axis world or anywhere inhabitable

Still, the issue is that they wouldn't default to BFR, because their Omnisicence is useless here. And that's assuming he can detect True Spirits. Which are more fundamental than the Akashic Records, which he already couldn't detect.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Still, the issue is that they wouldn't default to BFR, because their Omnisicence is useless here.

He doesn't really have anything to put them away except BFR though?

And that's assuming he can detect True Spirits. Which are more fundamental than the Akashic Records, which he already couldn't detect.

Do we assume that smurf stuff is unsensable though?

They have potency but not some entirely differing structure from your definition of a metaphysical aspect

They can't affect, but not sense?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

He doesn't really have anything to put them away except BFR though?

GHS doesn't know that.

Do we assume that smurf stuff is unsensable though?

They have potency but not some entirely differing structure from your definition of a metaphysical aspect

They can't affect, but not sense?

It would be like assuming a 5D being can sense entities in the 20th Dimension. Only the gap is incomparably larger, since we're talking qualitative differences.

 

[AlexSamDen]

GHS doesn't know that.

He can try everything at once

Once again, upscaling from infinite Trial&Error

It would be like assuming a 5D being can sense entities in the 20th Dimension. Only the gap is incomparably larger, since we're talking qualitative differences.

It is potency here though, not size or anything

And metaphysics at that

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

He can try everything at once

Once again, upscaling from infinite Trial&Error

We already discussed this.

GHS would need a reason to get involved in the first place, and if it's upon the arrival of Creators, then it's already too late.

There's a reason why the MC had to take the fight to their home universe.

It is potency here though, not size or anything

And metaphysics at that

You can't sense a metaphysical aspect that you simply can't sense. Unless Tensura has something equally fundamental to True Spirits.

 

[AlexSamDen]

We already discussed this.

GHS would need a reason to get involved in the first place, and if it's upon the arrival of Creators, then it's already too late.

There's a reason why the MC had to take the fight to their home universe.

He would sense the indestructability from the fact that they can avoid death from CM1, IM2 and other metaphysical layers from the 6A guys, since their abilities work on that level

That is not normal, so GHS would investigate and find out about indestructability

At which point he just yeets them

You can't sense a metaphysical aspect that you simply can't sense. Unless Tensura has something equally fundamental to True Spirits.

Not if we're talking potency, but pure metaphysical aspect layering - very well may be

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

He would sense the indestructability from the fact that they can avoid death from CM1, IM2 and other metaphysical layers from the 6A guys, since their abilities work on that level

That is not normal, so GHS would investigate and find out about indestructability

At which point he just yeets them

No, the Demons would all die, and only their True Spirits would remain, which GHS can't sense, so it would think they're dead.

Then Creators take over, regenerate, and gg.

Not if we're talking potency, but pure metaphysical aspect layering - very well may be

If Tensura has something more fundamental than plot and information, please show me.

 

[AlexSamDen]

No, the Demons would all die, and only their True Spirits would remain, which GHS can't sense, so it would think they're dead.

Doesn't that mean that they lose by SBA standards?

Since the ability to come back doesn't come from them, they technically died and lost right there

If Tensura has something more fundamental than plot and information, please show me.

Than info - yes

Than plot - not really, but by metaphysical equalization standards, plot is just another aspects that can be overcome with metaphysical layering

As for number of aspects, I believe you remember that blog from Astral (that is currently a CRT)

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Doesn't that mean that they lose by SBA standards?

Since the ability to come back doesn't come from them, they technically died and lost right there

Demons are Avatars, so it does come from them, just the 'real' them.

Than info - yes

Than plot - not really, but by metaphysical equalization standards, plot is just another aspects that can be overcome with metaphysical layering

As for number of aspects, I believe you remember that blog from Astral (that is currently a CRT)

Tensura has nothing to equalize plot to, that's not already in the verse.

I'm telling you it's gg, my guy.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

God I've never seen a debate ds long for a versus battle

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

God I've never seen a debate ds long for a versus battle

He's been Tensura's greatest soldier, and is going up against a smurfed verse. Honestly impressive.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Demons are Avatars, so it does come from them, just the 'real' them.

Should we also take the tier from the "real them"?

The one participating in the battle are explicitly Avatars

Tensura has nothing to equalize plot to, that's not already in the verse.

Weird, I've been hearing for a long time that Plot is also just a fundamental aspect and can be outlayered just the same in terms of metaphysical equalization

Especially when Plot has strict requirements for feats so it can't affect metaphysical layering beyond its paygrade in its origin verse

I'm telling you it's gg, my guy.

I'm making the greatest last stand here

Even an incon will be legendary

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Should we also take the tier from the "real them"?

The one participating in the battle are explicitly Avatars

The issue is that any of their avatars can have their power elevated and become clones of Creators.

Weird, I've been hearing for a long time that Plot is also just a fundamental aspect and can be outlayered just the same in terms of metaphysical equalization

Especially when Plot gas strict requirements for feats so it can't affect metaphysical layering beyond its paygrade in its origin verse

I mean, YTSY has every metaphysical aspect Tensura does, and then some. So how about this? To finally settle this, you list all of the metaphysical layering Tensura 'currently' has, and we can compare and put this debate to rest.

I'm making the greatest last stand here

Even an incon will be legendary

Fair enough.

 

[AlexSamDen]

The issue is that any of their avatars can have their power elevated and become clones of Creators.

Yeah, but that's them being instantly killed, then their creators coming (when it's already a loss for Avatars with SBA) and them being recreated

Theseus Ship stuff here

I mean, YTSY has every metaphysical aspect Tensura does, and then some. So how about this? To finally settle this, you list all of the metaphysical layering Tensura 'currently' has, and we can compare and put this debate to rest.

Law&CM1 (SLF) < CM1 (Soul) < Info2 < CM1&Law (Unique Laws) < CM1&Law (Attributes) < Phenomena/Events

Law can expand into Causality, Fate, Time, Space, Probability, etc

Info can add Life Death, Existence, Nonexistence, etc

Phenomena is just everything
On a deeper layer


If you come to that Aspect CRT finally, can add Aether and Ego

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

He's been Tensura's greatest soldier, and is going up against a smurfed verse. Honestly impressive.

Very true

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I mean, YTSY has every metaphysical aspect Tensura does, and then some. So how about this? To finally settle this, you list all of the metaphysical layering Tensura 'currently' has, and we can compare and put this debate to rest

Do they have something equivalent to Type 1 concepts such that bolded:

Type 1 Concepts defined by more fundamental Type 1 Concepts that in turn are defined by Information that again in turn are defined by even more fundamental concepts?

I wanna help with income soooo

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Yeah, but that's them being instantly killed, then their creators coming (when it's already a loss for Avatars with SBA) and them being recreated

Theseus Ship stuff here

If this were the case, Immortality Type 8 & 9 wouldn't exist.

Law&CM1 (SLF) < CM1 (Soul) < Info2 < CM1&Law (Unique Laws) < CM1&Law (Attributes) < Phenomena/Events

Law can expand into Causality, Fate, Time, Space, Probability, etc

Info can add Life Death, Existence, Nonexistence, etc

Phenomena is just everything
On a deeper layer

Alrighty.

CM2 < Spiritual Energy (Universal Existence, Nonexistence, Yes, No, 1, 0) < First Void < Boundaries (CM2) < Second Void < CM1 < Origin (Universal Name, Meaning, Value, Purpose, Laws, Logic, CM1) < Akashic Records (Data, Binary, History, Story & Information) < True Spirits (CM3)

This is how Fundamental True Spirits are. Sorry that took so long. I skipped over some stuff, but it's not really relevant.

< Primordial Steel/Steel Strength (Multiversal Existence, Nonexistence, Corporeal, Incorporeal & All Forces) < Third Void < Infinite Logic & Infinitely Nested Dualities & Infinite Spectrum of Concepts < Multiversal Name, Meaning, Value, Purpose, Laws, Logic, CM1 & Force Behind All Concepts < Initial Flame (Absolute Concept/CM1) < PIMDA (Reality, Correctness, Truth CM1, Dao & Being) < Great Axes (True Nothingness, Existence, Logical Thinking & Symbols that Transcend Concepts & Truth) < Prototypes (Prototype of All Things. [Miracle] is here)

The Law sustaining True Spirits is around where [Miracle] is.

If you come to that Aspect CRT finally, can add Aether and Ego

I'll get to it, promise.

 

[sukuna171]

The Witness should probably take 4th or 3rd spot in High 1-B.

bump

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

If this were the case, Immortality Type 8 & 9 wouldn't exist.

Alrighty.

This is how Fundamental True Spirits are. Sorry that took so long. I skipped over some stuff, but it's not really relevant.

The Law sustaining True Spirits is around where [Miracle] is.

I'll get to it, promise.

More to comes by the way, True Spirit is bullshit in the 5th novel

 

[Kavliaris]

Alrighty.

More to comes by the way, True Spirit is bullshit in the 5th novel

How are you resisting the urge to upscale True Spirit to type 1 atp

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

How are you resisting the urge to upscale True Spirit to type 1 atp

Scanning the translations lol

 

[AlexSamDen]

Alrighty.

Oh, you can add Voids? I didn't know they counted
If we can, I can add 2 more things there
Plus Magicules and Spiritrons
So ig TS is around the level of Phenomena or Attributes?
Especially with the amount of CM2 in the layering

Which technically means GHS can see it and learn of its indestructability

And we get to the previous state of the conversation

The Law sustaining True Spirits is around where [Miracle] is.

Didn't even really think about interacting with that one. Relied on deduction since the start

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Oh, you can add Voids? I didn't know they counted
If we can, I can add 2 more things there
Plus Magicules and Spiritrons
So ig TS is around the level of Phenomena or Attributes?
Especially with the amount of CM2 in the layering

Which technically means GHS can see it and learn of its indestructability

And we get to the previous state of the conversation

Yeah.

Though, as I said before, BFR won't really do anything. They'll just revere time or causality and head back.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yeah.

Though, as I said before, BFR won't really do anything. They'll just revere time or causality and head back.

Can they do it beyond they range?
Or with no time to use

Plus, he sends Demons away, Creators didn't think of coming yet
Why would they come when the demons are no longer in an interesting world?

 

[Deonment]

I was wondering for a moment why you hadn't sent them to 3-B before I rememebered joshua was in that tier, lol

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Can they do it beyond they range? Or with no time to use

Yeah, smurfed like everything else.

Plus, he sends Demons away, Creators didn't think of coming yet. Why would they come when the demons are no longer in an interesting world?

As you said, GHS would trial and error through a bunch of abilities, before finally BFR sends them away. Getting hit with 1-C Abilities would definitely attract their interest.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

So, a Demon Swarm for Equal, and Captain for Unequal?

Should work. Speed equal its kinda iffy for the captain to win consistently with a lot of lose option and win option (assuming he cannot use T1)

 

[AlexSamDen]

Yeah, smurfed like everything else.

In range too?
Smurf is potency

As you said, GHS would trial and error through a bunch of abilities, before finally BFR sends them away. Getting hit with 1-C Abilities would definitely attract their interest.

There's a difference in speed though
It's like the good old Infinite vs Immeasurable

He'll try everything before they realize anything

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

In range too?
Smurf is potency'

I mean, I wouldn't call sending yourself back in time a range. But yeah, like everything else, it's done through the Akashic Records.

There's a difference in speed though
It's like the good old Infinite vs Immeasurable

He'll try everything before they realize anything

They'll still get hit by it, so it doesn't really change anything. Hell, it'll be even more confusing that billions of their avatars were instantly hit with abilities they couldn't perceive before being sent somewhere else.

 

[AlexSamDen]

I mean, I wouldn't call sending yourself back in time a range.

Range for a timeline

But yeah, like everything else, it's done through the Akashic Records.

Which we just realized is below the Attribute of Time in metaphysical layering

They'll still get hit by it, so it doesn't really change anything. Hell, it'll be even more confusing that billions of their avatars were instantly hit with abilities they couldn't perceive before being sent somewhere else.

Nah, the ones getting hit by top/god tiers don't feel the attack
That's like a very specific thing about them. You don't know that anything happened before it affected you
And since anything aside from BFR didn't, they'll only feel it

Also, Temporal stuff works weird, so won't GHS know of himself trying stuff in that point of "time" and knowing that offensive stuff didn't work, so instead he just starts with BFR

Omniscience in his own territory and applying to his own actions still works



Btw, why are we using a civilization instead of a representative again?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Range for a timeline

Which we just realized is below the Attribute of Time in metaphysical layering

But scales above the verse, so

Nah, the ones getting hit by top/god tiers don't feel the attack
That's like a very specific thing about them. You don't know that anything happened before it affected you
And since anything aside from BFR didn't, they'll only feel it

Also, Temporal stuff works weird, so won't GHS know of himself trying stuff in that point of "time" and knowing that offensive stuff didn't work, so instead he just starts with BFR

Omniscience in his own territory and applying to his own actions still works

Gonna need scans for that fam.

 

[AlexSamDen]

While I'm getting the scan, gotta ask how do they beat Spot 2

They got a guy with Aca5

And there's not Tier 1 stuff there