Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[Omegabronic]

Might be a similar situation as this guy
ㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤㅤ

Ice-E?

 

[Randomuser3412]

So... who do you guys think is stronger: Kris or Ralsei?

Also... how many octopus dishes have you eaten in your life time? Cooking octopus with onions is... very, very common, here's 5 examples:

Interesting.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Ice-E?

I was moreso referring to the fact that we can keep taking pieces of him in the Geno route till becomes a puddle, yet those pieces still don't dust.

 

[Omegabronic]

Possible lyrics for Cutie Mew Mew Magic... either version kind of has... implications... about the Weird Route... that's... we- ahem... peculiar

 

[Omegabronic]

So... who do you guys think is stronger: Kris or Ralsei?

Interesting.

Ralsei... if he is trully holding back so much as to insta kill Flowery... yeah... also cuz i want to do a "Firegrave" route in Chapter 6

 

[Omegabronic]

I was moreso referring to the fact that we can keep taking pieces of him in the Geno route till becomes a puddle, yet those pieces still don't dust.

tbf we also don't know if the Snowman is a monster... so maybe Onion and him are... Cryptids? IDK they are we- ahem... peculiar

 

[Randomuser3412]

Ralsei... if he is trully holding back so much as to insta kill Flowery... yeah... also cuz i want to do a "Firegrave" route in Chapter 6

It should be pretty clear by now that Susie is the weakest Lancer Fan Club member. Ralsei's statement is pretty impressive, but I don't know if it's more impressive than being nearly even with the seven flower's power combined

 

[Omegabronic]

It should be pretty clear by now that Susie is the weakest Lancer Fan Club member. Ralsei's statement is pretty impressive, but I don't know if it's more impressive than being nearly even with the seven flower's power combined

also... Kris deals more damage than Susie against the Knight when the other two swoom... huh

 

[Randomuser3412]

also... Kris deals more damage than Susie against the Knight when the other two swoom... huh

Kris deals 3x their normal damage against Tenna on the Sword Route as well

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Spoiler

 

[Ghengiroo115]

So... who do you guys think is stronger: Kris or Ralsei?

If the “fake” stats do stuff then I’d definitely say Ralsei, given he can supposedly insta-kill Flowery with fake stats active and is also implied to be able to use fake stats himself. If not then Ralsei would have some cool abilities, but being able to insta-kill base Flowery isn’t that impressive in that case so I’d give it to Kris for being comparable to Omega Flowery.

Obviously I’m on team “fake stats aren’t literally fake”, so I’d personally give the win to Ralsei.

 

[Lou_change]

I mean Susie is probably the strongest in the light world still. Also doesn't she do really high damage when 1v1ing lancer look at violent chapter 1 play through until she calms down her damage keeps increasing and near the end she does triple damage a rude buster would probably end up with her even higher.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

some monsters in light world are highkey superhuman anyways

 

[Randomuser3412]

I mean Susie is probably the strongest in the light world still. Also doesn't she do really high damage when 1v1ing lancer look at violent chapter 1 play through until she calms down her damage keeps increasing and near the end she does triple damage a rude buster would probably end up with her even higher.

We can't really talk about the Light World and Ralsei in the same breath (piles of Asriel dust aren't known to be very able-to-fight). And to be honest, Susie doesn't necessarily have anything proving she's stronger than Kris in the Light World, does she? Kris makes no sort of attempt to fight back against her in Chapter 1 and they never have any other altercation.

 

[Forgettableusername]

I feel like a better reason than "it would make these guys a bit taller than how tall I think they should be," especially when nothing in the game seems to directly contradict this statement (other than assumptions of objects' sizes) is needed to dismiss an actual statement of height.

"It's okay, Kris! I'm short too!"

 

[Randomuser3412]

"It's okay, Kris! I'm short too!"

You're already presupposing that means "short for a human in the real world" which it does not necessarily mean

 

[Forgettableusername]

You're already presupposing that means "short for a human in the real world" which it does not necessarily mean

the alternative is assuming based on this one lyric that everything in the world of deltarune is like 50% larger than in real life for literally no reason

 

[Randomuser3412]

the alternative is assuming based on this one lyric that everything in the world of deltarune is like 50% larger than in real life for literally no reason

Listen, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. All I'm saying is that I've yet to see any concrete, non-vibe-based evidence that proves this line shouldn't be taken seriously be brought up

 

[Omegabronic]

If the “fake” stats do stuff then I’d definitely say Ralsei, given he can supposedly insta-kill Flowery with fake stats active and is also implied to be able to use fake stats himself. If not then Ralsei would have some cool abilities, but being able to insta-kill base Flowery isn’t that impressive in that case so I’d give it to Kris for being comparable to Omega Flowery.

Obviously I’m on team “fake stats aren’t literally fake”, so I’d personally give the win to Ralsei.

Actually, Base Flowery is said to be Yellow's "Sparring Partner" so he should scaled to the Delta Warriors

 

[Randomuser3412]

If Gaster's reaction to our appearance in the Shelter in the Weird Route isn't spitting out his coffee and saying "☝︎☜︎❄︎ ❄︎☟︎☜︎ 🕈︎︎☠︎☝︎ ⚐︎🕆︎❄︎ ⚐︎☞︎ ︎✡︎ ☼︎⚐︎⚐︎︎ ︎🕯︎︎ 🏱︎☹︎✌︎✡︎︎☠︎☝︎ ︎︎☠︎☜︎︎☼︎✌︎🏱︎," I may refund Deltarune

 

[Omegabronic]

If Gaster's reaction to our appearance in the Shelter in the Weird Route isn't spitting out his coffee and saying "☝︎☜︎❄︎ ❄︎☟︎☜︎ 🕈︎︎☠︎☝︎ ⚐︎🕆︎❄︎ ⚐︎☞︎ ︎✡︎ ☼︎⚐︎⚐︎︎ ︎🕯︎︎ 🏱︎☹︎✌︎✡︎︎☠︎☝︎ ︎︎☠︎☜︎︎☼︎✌︎🏱︎," I may refund Deltarune

✞︎☜︎☼︎✡︎ ✞︎☜︎☼︎✡︎ ︎☠︎❄︎☜︎☼︎☜︎︎❄︎︎☠︎☝︎

︎☼︎☜︎✌︎︎︎☠︎☝︎ ︎✡︎ ✂︎☝︎✌︎︎☜︎✂︎ 🕈︎︎☹︎☹︎ ✡︎⚐︎🕆︎✍︎

︎︎︎

☞︎🕆︎︎︎ ✡︎⚐︎🕆︎ ❄︎🕈︎⚐︎

🕿︎☝︎︎⬧︎⧫︎︎❒︎ ◻︎❒︎︎⬧︎︎⬧︎ ⧫︎︎︎ ■︎◆︎🙵︎ ︎◆︎⧫︎⧫︎□︎■︎✆︎

 

[RinneItachi]

I'm now contending between this and G-Man being my headcanon Gaster voice.

Spoiler: Weird Route Spoilers

 

[RinneItachi]

On that note someone said

Spoiler: WR Chapter 5

they can see Gaster's face in Noelle and Kris' sprites here and now I cannot unsee it.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Interestingly enough in my pacifist playthrough Susie adds Ralsei to the drawing (which seems to be triggered by Ralsei telling you the ice cream is from him in Ch4).

This is strange because the drawing in sans' lab only has 3 people on it.

Undertale only happens in the Weird Route, it seems.

Interesting.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You're already presupposing that means "short for a human in the real world" which it does not necessarily mean

The term "short", "height" and anything communicated to the audience must be based on either established canon, or the audience's own understanding. The concept of height is never explored in the narrative, Kris is communicated to be a human, so the term short must be based on our understanding of a short person.

It is short for a human in the real world based on the simple Principle of Minimal Departure in writing.

 

[Comiphorous]

Possible lyrics for Cutie Mew Mew Magic... either version kind of has... implications... about the Weird Route... that's... we- ahem... peculiar

Inline spoiler aint doing shit gng

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

 

[Randomuser3412]

The term "short", "height" and anything communicated to the audience must be based on either established canon, or the audience's own understanding. The concept of height is never explored in the narrative, Kris is communicated to be a human, so the term short must be based on our understanding of a short person.

It is short for a human in the real world based on the simple Principle of Minimal Departure in writing.

Maybe? It definitely does not mean it has to be from our understanding. It is a character in the game saying this and the game contradicts it being from our understanding later on.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Maybe? It definitely does not mean it has to be from our understanding.

It HAS to be, yes. That's how writing works. I'm not discussing writing etiquette with a non-writer.

If you read the word dog in a story (that never specified what dogs are), are you going to imagine a dog or a six legged alien? You pull from reality by default.

It is a character in the game saying this and the game contradicts it being from our understanding later on.

It doesn't. Your interpretation adds several layers of assumptions (short humans are over 6'6", meaning humanity as a whole is taller than irl for no narrative purpose) just to make it make sense. Cease. Occam's razor.

 

[Randomuser3412]

It HAS to be, yes. That's how writing works. I'm not discussing writing etiquette with a non-writer.

If you read the word dog in a story (that never specified what dogs are), are you going to imagine a dog or a six legged alien? You pull from reality by default.

If that story then went on to show a six legged alien called a "dog" 2 chapters later, yes, I could imagine that's what the writer meant.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If that story then went on to show a six legged alien called a "dog" 2 chapters later, yes, I could imagine that's what the writer meant.

Good thing this is not what happened in Deltarune whatsoever. Also you conceded that we pull from reality by default. Kris is informed to be a human, Kris is informed to be short. Our concept of short human cannot be 6'6", and the story never establishes humanity as being these eldritch tall beings for no reason.

Short human means short human IRL until proven otherwise. Stop playing devil's advocate because if he relied on you, he'd be in jail.

We got an iffy, gag-like "confirmation" on someone else's height, and we're inferring several assumptions via artstyle and fancalcs, that's not "contradicting" the short line whatsoever.

 

[Randomuser3412]

It doesn't. Your interpretation adds several layers of assumptions (short humans are over 6'6", meaning humanity as a whole is taller than irl for no narrative purpose) just to make it make sense. Cease. Occam's razor.

Realized I forgot to comment on this. Yeah, if you wanna say the line is hyperbole or non-literal because of a reason like that, that's completely fine

 

[Randomuser3412]

Good thing this is not what happened in Deltarune whatsoever. Also you conceded that we pull from reality by default. Kris is informed to be a human, Kris is informed to be short. Our concept of short human cannot be 6'6", and the story never establishes humanity as being these eldritch tall beings for no reason.

Short human means short human IRL until proven otherwise. Stop playing devil's advocate because if he relied on you, he'd be in jail.

We got an iffy, gag-like "confirmation" on someone else's height, and we're inferring several assumptions via artstyle and fancalcs, that's not "contradicting" the short line whatsoever.

Yeah. Basically, none of this is your actual point of "it has to be as realistic as possible or else Toby SUCKS at writing!!!" but I do agree

 

[GodlyCharmander]

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yeah. Basically, none of this is your actual point of "it has to be as realistic as possible or else Toby SUCKS at writing!!!" but I do agree

Oh, okay. So it's a misunderstanding.

Nah. I'm not saying that, chill. I'm saying that, if Toby established that the concept of short human is different in his world, that would be fine. But since he didn't, the concept is defined by its IRL version. We can't do that via a height confirmation of a non-human.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Oh, okay. So it's a misunderstanding.

Nah. I'm not saying that, chill. I'm saying that, if Toby established that the concept of short human is different in his world, that would be fine. But since he didn't, the concept is defined by its IRL version. We can't do that via a height confirmation of a non-human.

I apologize I didn't exactly clarify what I mean. I just don't believe "we pull from reality" alone can be used to dismiss any explicit statements in fiction. Along with (possibly extremely minor) other evidence it can, though.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I apologize I didn't exactly clarify what I mean. I just don't believe "we pull from reality" alone can be used to dismiss any explicit statements in fiction. Along with (possibly extremely minor) other evidence it can, though.

Oh no, fictional statements take priority over minimal departure every time. I don't disagree with that.

I'm saying that, if there isn't a fictional statement or a narrative purpose to change a real concept, that concept will be based on reality and the reader will be expected to pull from reality, unless the story establishes otherwise. Meaning the story still has fill authority of its concepts.


E.g:

Story A has no statements or concepts that would alter the Sun.
Story B has a statement that says that the Sun is actually their friend, and the Sun even goes down to Earth appearing no bigger than a space station.


If Story A cites the Sun being destroyed, it is based on basic logic and common sense that the viewer is going to pull the reference of our real sun, and it is also logical to claim the author used our sun as a basis. And whatever destroyed the Sun has some outwardly power.

If Story B says the same thing, then, using an IRL Sun is incorrect, and based on what the story informed the viewer, they're expected to take that statement as a character death, and a narrative turmoil to the protagonist.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Oh no, fictional statements take priority over minimal departure every time. I don't disagree with that.

I'm saying that, if there isn't a fictional statement or a narrative purpose to change a real concept, that concept will be based on reality and the reader will be expected to pull from reality, unless the story establishes otherwise. Meaning the story still has fill authority of its concepts.


E.g:

Story A has no statements or concepts that would alter the Sun.
Story B has a statement that says that the Sun is actually their friend, and the Sun even goes down to Earth appearing no bigger than a space station.


If Story A cites the Sun being destroyed, it is based on basic logic and common sense that the viewer is going to pull the reference of our real sun, and it is also logical to claim the author used our sun as a basis. And whatever destroyed the Sun has some outwardly power.

If Story B says the same thing, then, using an IRL Sun is incorrect, and based on what the story informed the viewer, they're expected to take that statement as a character death, and a narrative turmoil to the protagonist.

That's not entirely why I disagree with it being used and I do have something to say about that, but you'd probably wring my neck for it and I don't feel like arguing for something I don't truly believe anymore.

Anyway, what's a "jarona," guys?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

That's not entirely why I disagree with it being used and I do have something to say about that

I mean, you don't disagree with the concept itself I don't think, and I agree with you that fictional statements always take priority and reality can go f itself in those cases, so we're good.

Anyway, what's a "jarona," guys?

I mean... Do I even have to say it?

 

[Randomuser3412]

I mean, you don't disagree with the concept itself I don't think, and I agree with you that fictional statements always take priority and reality can go f itself in those cases, so we're good.

Yeah, you'd be right to wring my neck if I said what I wanted to say because it'd just be an example of me "not knowing when to shut up" and starting a pointless argument (so is this, I guess?)

mean... Do I even have to say it?

Bro, I genuinely have no idea