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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
SpecterSkater
He/Him- 476
- 858
The consensus is there is no consensus
This one's been pretty back and forth and open to debate, which has honestly made it one of the better waiting periods of the season.
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,112
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Just plugging new:
Optimus Prime fights another young one again! Wow. Ultimates has just concluded and I've been wanting to make this MU for a long while now so here goes.
Main Theme: Main protagonists from modern, darker reimaginations of classic heroes and medias. Hailing from a deeply corrupt society and once a part of its system, they would soon rise up against the rulers of their worlds, becoming the leaders of their rebellious factions and a figurehead for the people. But as things go on, they would rely on living due to a high powerful artifact in their chest, and are prophesized to one day become the very tyrants they swore to rose up against, all while trying to break this fate.
Theme Name: Rage against the Autocracy
Connections:
- As established, both are modern reinterpretations of classic heroes in a darker setting (Iron Lad is a younger version of Iron Man, now an underdog "terrorist" trying to set the world free from the Maker and his council. Optimus in essence is largely similar to his classic self, but the IDW continuity features a much darker take on the Cybertronian war than either the original Sunbow or Marvel G1 comic)
- Both of their worlds were ruled by cold, fascistic rulers who controlled every aspect of society (The council would frame themselves to be "idols" to be worshipped by the world, and would manufacture false conflicts and other smaller scale events in order to steer public attention away from the true nature of their work and to keep the public docile. Cybertron was ruled by both the Senate and the Functionist, and introduced a world where social engineering was taken in its most literal sense. Every citizen's function in society was decided based on their alternate mode and what they could offer)
- Both hail from fairly privileged positions in society, but always possessed doubts on the state of their world (Tony had already felt that the world was broken since he was a young boy, and was the one who suggested to his father to fight back against the council when Howard told him of his troubles. A young Orion became a police officer hoping to try and change things within, after witnessing how common brutality was amongst the citizens, but as time went on, he wondered if the powers he was serving just as corrupt as who he was fighting against)
- Both would soon be met by individual, that would soon truly open their and spark the desire to stand up against their governments (Tony would be approached by Doom, who would tell him of his father's sacrifice. Upon learning of this, Iron Lad would begin to kickstart the Ultimates and devise a revolution against the council. Orion's eyes would be opened by Megatron and his writings, and upon being attacked by Senate minions attempting to clean up their own track, Orion would decide to stand up to the Senate and for all)
- Early on in their rebellion, both would become close allies with heavily close ties with one of their biggest future enemies (Doom was in actuality the 6160 Reed Richards, who was both metally and physically torture by his own alternate counterpart, the Maker, out of petty, sheer spite. Orion would be assisted by Senator Shockwave, someone else also trying to change things from within, who would eventually be mutilated and lobotomized by Senate into the Decepticon scientist of the same name)
- Both of their greatest enemies are time traveling evil scientists, who possess a close connection to one of their allies, and are highly responsible for the world today through the meddling of time (The Maker originated from Earth 1610, and through a series of events, would arrive on 6160 in order to mold it into his "perfect" universe. The Maker would systematically ensure Earth's heroes would never come to be so that none would challenge him via the use of the Immortus Engine, a powerful time machine. Shockwave would be flung back in time, and would manipulate Cybertron's events in order to reshape history to his favor, and to eventually lead it to collapse so that he may rebuild Cybertronian society from the ground up in his own image)
- Both coined the names of their respective factions (Ultimates and Autobots)
- The earliest recruits in their rebellion started out small and involves super-powered individuals (The original Ultimates cast consisted of a selection of heroes that the Maker prevented from happening. Orion originally teamed up with Shockwave's hidden school of Outliers, a group of Cybertronians with supoer-powered abilities unrelated to their alt modes and shunned by society)
- Both would eventually reach turning points in which their factions began to collapse, as their original outlook on how to change the world simply wasn't working (The Ultimate's first defeat came at the hands of the Hulk and his Immortal weapons, leading to Iron Lad's near death and the team staying low for months. Orion had multiple phases of this. First is with the Senate finding out about Shockwave's betrayal, leading Orion and his group into hiding. Second is when Orion, now working with the newly appointed Prime, Zeta, in order to change the system from within again, only to realize Zeta was no different from his predecessors)
- Upon the realization, both would proceed to radically different and more "extreme" methods in order to attain their goals. (Iron Lad realized that in order to truly take down the council, they couldn't just play safe anymore, and that they needed to reach out their influence to across the world in order to truly make a mark. Orion decided that the Senate was truly rotten to the core and that the only solution was to tear it and begin anew, aligning himself with Megatron in order to kill Zeta)
- The aformention fall would eventually lead to both of them almost dying, and they would both be merged with an extremely powerful artifact bonded to their chests, saving their lives. (The Immortus Engine would be merged with Iron Lad's chest in order to save him, leading to Tony affectively being "frozen in time" just right before his death, essentially making him immortal. Orion would be betrayed by Megatron after defeating Zeta. Orion would be left for death, and would be saved by the Matrix bonding itself to Orion, healing him to full health and becoming Optimus Prime)
- Both of the respective artifacts were highly sought after by their greatest enemies for universe conquering purposes (The Maker sought after the Immortus Engine as a way to further spread his empire across all of creation and give him greater control over time itself. The Senate and the Functionists sought after the Matrix because they believed its life giving powers would allow them mold everything in their image)
- Eventually, the two would raise a speech to the public, and lead them to at long last rise up to their oppressors and begin a new war (Iron lad would release a speech worldwide after a long series of systematically breaking the council's trust over the public, leading to the Ultimates, now backed by the public and other miscellaneous heroes across the world, to wage an all out war against the Council. Optimus would make two speeches, first against the senate in his early years, and second after being bestowed Matrix, rallying Cybertron and old warriors to stand up against the newly formed Decepticon regime)
- The scale of this war would encompass the entire planet (The Ultimates vs the Council would become labelled as WWIII, and the Autobot/Decepticon conflict would soon engulf not just the planet, but even extend to the rest of the galaxy)
- Throughout the course of their journeys, both are heavily hinted to one day, their good intentions will lead them down a dark path and become just like the tyrants they rose up to fight against (Iron Lad is heavily hinted throughout the series and eventually revealed to be Kang, the ruler of time. Kang would come from an original future in which the Ultimates fail to defeat the Maker, leading to Iron Lad losing all sense of morality and eventually spiraling down the path of a tyrant, willing to cast aside everything else just to defeat the Maker. Optimus Prime is constantly paralleled to past Primes like Nova Prime, and later on when he annexes Earth, Optimus is constantly showed visions of him being a tyrant who destroys everything, with the constant theme of the series being whether or not Optimus is destined to fall down the same slippery slope as his predecessors despite his noble intentions)
- Both of them ultimately break their fate, allowing them to defeat their great enemy once and for all and ensure a better future for their worlds (Iron Lad determines that the future is not fixed, and that their past actions can indeed change the future. Upon defeating the Maker once and for all, Kang would also be erased from history. Optimus decides to break the cycle of violence the other Primes casted, and would make peace with Unicron's creator, a doomsday weapon manufactured against Cybertron for all its past sins. Ultimately foiling Shockwave's plot of resetting everything and giving Cybertron and Earth a new, brighter beginning)
- Both of their aforementioned enemies would become universe destroying entities (The Maker, trapped inside the City, would eventually evolve into a massive tree like entity mimicking Yggdrasil, and would attempt to erase the universe and replace it with himself. Shockwave, through his Regenesis plan, would collapse all of reality in order to turn it into an infinite fuel source for Cybertron)
- Both have used their artifacts to fend off against eldritch like, universe destroying entities (Iron Lad used the Immortus Engine to prevent the Maker Tree from spreading across the universe. Optimus used the Matrix to kill the D-Void, an eldritch being of an undead reality)
- Slightly off-topic, but both their aforementioned enemies have somewhat opposing goals and origins (Maker would make 6160 into what it is today while Shockwave was a product of his society's cruelty. Maker initially embraced constant change, before deciding to burn down everything and himself everything, static and eternal. Shockwave's original plan was to simply maintain Cybertron as an unchanging eternity, though changed his methods after getting sent to past, using war and bloodshed to carve his own ideal Cybertronian world)
- Both would end their journeys on opposing fate, but with a bright future ahead (Iron Lad lived to see the world he fought so hard to change, finally able to break his own fate and now being able to forge his own future. Optimus would die, taking all of the Primes' and Cybertron's past sins with him, giving the Cybertronians/people of earth to finally live in a world without the shadow of a Prime)
Maker and Shockwave have their own fair of connections that I'll make on another time.
Debate Potential: Stats-wise, Optimus I'd say has much stronger physical high ends in comparison to Iron Lad. While Ultimates does have feats that would surpass IDW, a majority of them arguably don't scale to Iron Lad or are likely massive outliers. Iron Lad does however, make up with a more versatile arsenal and hax abilities that would make putting him down a lot more challenging. The biggest debate boils down to the Matrix against the Immortus Engine, both being arguably in universe destroying levels of power and with higher dimensional interpretations.
Animation Potential: With the right type of choreography, it could definitely work, especially with both of them being mechanical and relying a lot on ranged weapons. Both are highly tactical in their fights, and a lot of it, I'd imagine, would them trying to outsmart the other in a kinda mecha gunfight type battle and trying to gain an advantage. Both of their greater arsenals, flight abilities and Iron Lad's time related abilities would provide a lot more variety here.
Story set-up: The end of Ultimates show a bright but uncertain future in which despite breaking free of the council, the Ultimates still have a long way to go before attaining a better tomorrow. I think this leads to two possible scenarios in mind for me:
- Optimus annexes earth in order to prevent the Decepticons from taking control over a vulnerable world. Iron lad, weary of similar false messiahs like the Maker, decides to take no chances and end this supposed threat ASAP. This inevitably leads to Iron Lad clashing with Optimus.
- Cybertronians hiding amongst humans civilization, especially when within such a vulnerable era for humanity, would eventually lead to a misunderstanding between Optimus and Iron Lad and causing the two to conflict with one another. I feel this one is probably less complicated and easier to write out ngl.
I gotta say, this is probably my favourite Optimus Prime match up behind Superman and maybe above Amuro Ray? Honestly, if Maker vs Shockwave had a chance of being acknowledged by the DB crew, I hope this one does well.
Main Theme: Main protagonists from modern, darker reimaginations of classic heroes and medias. Hailing from a deeply corrupt society and once a part of its system, they would soon rise up against the rulers of their worlds, becoming the leaders of their rebellious factions and a figurehead for the people. But as things go on, they would rely on living due to a high powerful artifact in their chest, and are prophesized to one day become the very tyrants they swore to rose up against, all while trying to break this fate.
Theme Name: Rage against the Autocracy
Connections:
- As established, both are modern reinterpretations of classic heroes in a darker setting (Iron Lad is a younger version of Iron Man, now an underdog "terrorist" trying to set the world free from the Maker and his council. Optimus in essence is largely similar to his classic self, but the IDW continuity features a much darker take on the Cybertronian war than either the original Sunbow or Marvel G1 comic)
- Both of their worlds were ruled by cold, fascistic rulers who controlled every aspect of society (The council would frame themselves to be "idols" to be worshipped by the world, and would manufacture false conflicts and other smaller scale events in order to steer public attention away from the true nature of their work and to keep the public docile. Cybertron was ruled by both the Senate and the Functionist, and introduced a world where social engineering was taken in its most literal sense. Every citizen's function in society was decided based on their alternate mode and what they could offer)
- Both hail from fairly privileged positions in society, but always possessed doubts on the state of their world (Tony had already felt that the world was broken since he was a young boy, and was the one who suggested to his father to fight back against the council when Howard told him of his troubles. A young Orion became a police officer hoping to try and change things within, after witnessing how common brutality was amongst the citizens, but as time went on, he wondered if the powers he was serving just as corrupt as who he was fighting against)
- Both would soon be met by individual, that would soon truly open their and spark the desire to stand up against their governments (Tony would be approached by Doom, who would tell him of his father's sacrifice. Upon learning of this, Iron Lad would begin to kickstart the Ultimates and devise a revolution against the council. Orion's eyes would be opened by Megatron and his writings, and upon being attacked by Senate minions attempting to clean up their own track, Orion would decide to stand up to the Senate and for all)
- Early on in their rebellion, both would become close allies with heavily close ties with one of their biggest future enemies (Doom was in actuality the 6160 Reed Richards, who was both metally and physically torture by his own alternate counterpart, the Maker, out of petty, sheer spite. Orion would be assisted by Senator Shockwave, someone else also trying to change things from within, who would eventually be mutilated and lobotomized by Senate into the Decepticon scientist of the same name)
- Both of their greatest enemies are time traveling evil scientists, who possess a close connection to one of their allies, and are highly responsible for the world today through the meddling of time (The Maker originated from Earth 1610, and through a series of events, would arrive on 6160 in order to mold it into his "perfect" universe. The Maker would systematically ensure Earth's heroes would never come to be so that none would challenge him via the use of the Immortus Engine, a powerful time machine. Shockwave would be flung back in time, and would manipulate Cybertron's events in order to reshape history to his favor, and to eventually lead it to collapse so that he may rebuild Cybertronian society from the ground up in his own image)
- Both coined the names of their respective factions (Ultimates and Autobots)
- The earliest recruits in their rebellion started out small and involves super-powered individuals (The original Ultimates cast consisted of a selection of heroes that the Maker prevented from happening. Orion originally teamed up with Shockwave's hidden school of Outliers, a group of Cybertronians with supoer-powered abilities unrelated to their alt modes and shunned by society)
- Both would eventually reach turning points in which their factions began to collapse, as their original outlook on how to change the world simply wasn't working (The Ultimate's first defeat came at the hands of the Hulk and his Immortal weapons, leading to Iron Lad's near death and the team staying low for months. Orion had multiple phases of this. First is with the Senate finding out about Shockwave's betrayal, leading Orion and his group into hiding. Second is when Orion, now working with the newly appointed Prime, Zeta, in order to change the system from within again, only to realize Zeta was no different from his predecessors)
- Upon the realization, both would proceed to radically different and more "extreme" methods in order to attain their goals. (Iron Lad realized that in order to truly take down the council, they couldn't just play safe anymore, and that they needed to reach out their influence to across the world in order to truly make a mark. Orion decided that the Senate was truly rotten to the core and that the only solution was to tear it and begin anew, aligning himself with Megatron in order to kill Zeta)
- The aformention fall would eventually lead to both of them almost dying, and they would both be merged with an extremely powerful artifact bonded to their chests, saving their lives. (The Immortus Engine would be merged with Iron Lad's chest in order to save him, leading to Tony affectively being "frozen in time" just right before his death, essentially making him immortal. Orion would be betrayed by Megatron after defeating Zeta. Orion would be left for death, and would be saved by the Matrix bonding itself to Orion, healing him to full health and becoming Optimus Prime)
- Both of the respective artifacts were highly sought after by their greatest enemies for universe conquering purposes (The Maker sought after the Immortus Engine as a way to further spread his empire across all of creation and give him greater control over time itself. The Senate and the Functionists sought after the Matrix because they believed its life giving powers would allow them mold everything in their image)
- Eventually, the two would raise a speech to the public, and lead them to at long last rise up to their oppressors and begin a new war (Iron lad would release a speech worldwide after a long series of systematically breaking the council's trust over the public, leading to the Ultimates, now backed by the public and other miscellaneous heroes across the world, to wage an all out war against the Council. Optimus would make two speeches, first against the senate in his early years, and second after being bestowed Matrix, rallying Cybertron and old warriors to stand up against the newly formed Decepticon regime)
- The scale of this war would encompass the entire planet (The Ultimates vs the Council would become labelled as WWIII, and the Autobot/Decepticon conflict would soon engulf not just the planet, but even extend to the rest of the galaxy)
- Throughout the course of their journeys, both are heavily hinted to one day, their good intentions will lead them down a dark path and become just like the tyrants they rose up to fight against (Iron Lad is heavily hinted throughout the series and eventually revealed to be Kang, the ruler of time. Kang would come from an original future in which the Ultimates fail to defeat the Maker, leading to Iron Lad losing all sense of morality and eventually spiraling down the path of a tyrant, willing to cast aside everything else just to defeat the Maker. Optimus Prime is constantly paralleled to past Primes like Nova Prime, and later on when he annexes Earth, Optimus is constantly showed visions of him being a tyrant who destroys everything, with the constant theme of the series being whether or not Optimus is destined to fall down the same slippery slope as his predecessors despite his noble intentions)
- Both of them ultimately break their fate, allowing them to defeat their great enemy once and for all and ensure a better future for their worlds (Iron Lad determines that the future is not fixed, and that their past actions can indeed change the future. Upon defeating the Maker once and for all, Kang would also be erased from history. Optimus decides to break the cycle of violence the other Primes casted, and would make peace with Unicron's creator, a doomsday weapon manufactured against Cybertron for all its past sins. Ultimately foiling Shockwave's plot of resetting everything and giving Cybertron and Earth a new, brighter beginning)
- Both of their aforementioned enemies would become universe destroying entities (The Maker, trapped inside the City, would eventually evolve into a massive tree like entity mimicking Yggdrasil, and would attempt to erase the universe and replace it with himself. Shockwave, through his Regenesis plan, would collapse all of reality in order to turn it into an infinite fuel source for Cybertron)
- Both have used their artifacts to fend off against eldritch like, universe destroying entities (Iron Lad used the Immortus Engine to prevent the Maker Tree from spreading across the universe. Optimus used the Matrix to kill the D-Void, an eldritch being of an undead reality)
- Slightly off-topic, but both their aforementioned enemies have somewhat opposing goals and origins (Maker would make 6160 into what it is today while Shockwave was a product of his society's cruelty. Maker initially embraced constant change, before deciding to burn down everything and himself everything, static and eternal. Shockwave's original plan was to simply maintain Cybertron as an unchanging eternity, though changed his methods after getting sent to past, using war and bloodshed to carve his own ideal Cybertronian world)
- Both would end their journeys on opposing fate, but with a bright future ahead (Iron Lad lived to see the world he fought so hard to change, finally able to break his own fate and now being able to forge his own future. Optimus would die, taking all of the Primes' and Cybertron's past sins with him, giving the Cybertronians/people of earth to finally live in a world without the shadow of a Prime)
Maker and Shockwave have their own fair of connections that I'll make on another time.
Debate Potential: Stats-wise, Optimus I'd say has much stronger physical high ends in comparison to Iron Lad. While Ultimates does have feats that would surpass IDW, a majority of them arguably don't scale to Iron Lad or are likely massive outliers. Iron Lad does however, make up with a more versatile arsenal and hax abilities that would make putting him down a lot more challenging. The biggest debate boils down to the Matrix against the Immortus Engine, both being arguably in universe destroying levels of power and with higher dimensional interpretations.
Animation Potential: With the right type of choreography, it could definitely work, especially with both of them being mechanical and relying a lot on ranged weapons. Both are highly tactical in their fights, and a lot of it, I'd imagine, would them trying to outsmart the other in a kinda mecha gunfight type battle and trying to gain an advantage. Both of their greater arsenals, flight abilities and Iron Lad's time related abilities would provide a lot more variety here.
Story set-up: The end of Ultimates show a bright but uncertain future in which despite breaking free of the council, the Ultimates still have a long way to go before attaining a better tomorrow. I think this leads to two possible scenarios in mind for me:
- Optimus annexes earth in order to prevent the Decepticons from taking control over a vulnerable world. Iron lad, weary of similar false messiahs like the Maker, decides to take no chances and end this supposed threat ASAP. This inevitably leads to Iron Lad clashing with Optimus.
- Cybertronians hiding amongst humans civilization, especially when within such a vulnerable era for humanity, would eventually lead to a misunderstanding between Optimus and Iron Lad and causing the two to conflict with one another. I feel this one is probably less complicated and easier to write out ngl.
I gotta say, this is probably my favourite Optimus Prime match up behind Superman and maybe above Amuro Ray? Honestly, if Maker vs Shockwave had a chance of being acknowledged by the DB crew, I hope this one does well.
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It's bachin time
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Jill Valentine vs Regina (Resident Evil vs Dino Crisis)
(Yuix) (Grimes) (blessedaura) "The horror experience is most scary when the player really ...
newhorizonsdb.blogspot.com
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Dormammu sweep lol
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I know jackshit about Dormammu, but I'd say he sweeps simply because I don't fw Trigon at all.
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Even if i'm more of a DC guy, i'm glad that Dormammu won.
Fezzih_007
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I'd pick Dormammu solely because I fw his design a lot more than Trigon's.
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I feel kind of bad whenever I say this but it really has to be asked: What on earth made the pitchers think that these kinds of matchups even had a 1% chance of getting an episode? So many pitches feel like something the pitcher in question wants without thinking about if anyone else would actually give a shit about it.
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Its like how people ask shitty stuff in games or their narratives to be inserted in a show
Most vs debaters dunno shit when it comes to matches
Most vs debaters dunno shit when it comes to matches
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 9,462
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I assume they don't really care If is getting a episode, and just wants to talk about a matchup they like with the crew.
But paying 300$ to talk about "the villains from wreck-it Halph vs creppypast Mario" is super weird.
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Its not even worth it, for such lesser characters
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,112
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We're just pitching shit now huh?
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,112
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I don't know if someone mentioned this earlier, but the track's name is "Miracle Men" (
.)
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I don't know if someone mentioned this earlier, but the track's name is "Miracle Men" (
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They did say it was debatable tho frankly ridiculous to try scaling him to dudes far above him
Fezzih_007
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man the outcome of this blog is so compelling it’s insane!
Fezzih_007
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I miss the days when we had spoilers
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Blog dropped. Hope y'all enjoy
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Death Battle Predictions: Sentry VS Superboy-Prime
(Rina Antiqua) (GraveTLK) (BlerdElitist) (Khero64) (Cabbage) (Ninjamonkey3904) (Stationsearcher) (Pasbros) (Adam天) (Maddie Antiqua) (The Cardinal King) (WWAL) (Kingsly) “The scariest monsters are t…
g1-team.com
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Death Battle Predictions: Sentry VS Superboy-Prime
(Rina Antiqua) (GraveTLK) (BlerdElitist) (Khero64) (Cabbage) (Ninjamonkey3904) (Stationsearcher) (Pasbros) (Adam天) (Maddie Antiqua) (The Cardinal King) (WWAL) (Kingsly) “The scariest monsters are t…
g1-team.com
Prime bros.......
WE ARE SO BACKKKKKKKKKKK
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So did the G1 people drop their use of the wiki’s standards for tiering? They say Prime is more Outerversal than Sentry (based on outsourcing it to another blog) but they’re equal in speed, even though that’s not how it works.Death Battle Predictions: Sentry VS Superboy-Prime
(Rina Antiqua) (GraveTLK) (BlerdElitist) (Khero64) (Cabbage) (Ninjamonkey3904) (Stationsearcher) (Pasbros) (Adam天) (Maddie Antiqua) (The Cardinal King) (WWAL) (Kingsly) “The scariest monsters are t…
Cool otherwise though. I’ll need to dig into this
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Where is your name?Death Battle Predictions: Sentry VS Superboy-Prime
(Rina Antiqua) (GraveTLK) (BlerdElitist) (Khero64) (Cabbage) (Ninjamonkey3904) (Stationsearcher) (Pasbros) (Adam天) (Maddie Antiqua) (The Cardinal King) (WWAL) (Kingsly) “The scariest monsters are t…
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Blerd
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Didnt you say it was evenly matched? How come it ended up like this afterwards? As lol at that one guy
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Bugger. Welp, still going to have faith in Bob for now. Maybe he can pull off a Nolan.
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How many times i have heard that in This days?
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Well, obviously there were other voluntiers who Say that Sentry can survive the Retcon Punch, but given scans like absorbing man "reality Punch" and house of M events and others showings of him being altered by that Powers, similar to the Retcon Punch, were decisive for the votes.
ZeNoviceArtist
He/Him- 6,112
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Which part is your research?Death Battle Predictions: Sentry VS Superboy-Prime
(Rina Antiqua) (GraveTLK) (BlerdElitist) (Khero64) (Cabbage) (Ninjamonkey3904) (Stationsearcher) (Pasbros) (Adam天) (Maddie Antiqua) (The Cardinal King) (WWAL) (Kingsly) “The scariest monsters are t…
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