Top 15 Strongest Non-Smurfs for Every Tier Continuation 4.0

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Also, he's directly attacking with Chronomancy, and it IS plot, all kinds of magic is plot (hell, they are crystallization of the soul, which is Plot). Especially Recollector, since its attacks affect the Soul, and Magic in general is Lore/Narrative. It's not that they are just spawned from CM or Plot, it is that they ARE the Plot.

This is just kinda true since Inertium which resists magic since it rejects all narratives also resists projectile type attacks and all sorts of other stuff magic/narrative related.

Inertium resists magic because it rejects all narratives. It is a deadening metal. It is a ringing thing that refuses to follow the vibrations of the system's song.”

Also dont all their magic attacks also still have their field which is basically the lore.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Furthermore, if there's no resistance to MM on their profile, then they're getting cooked the moment the fight starts. Though, what is the feat of MM3 they resist, anyways?

Wouldnt mm3 still work since even when someone was resisting it literally breaking and shattering their mind, it still made them lose the will to fight. That's far more potent and multi-faceted than whats described here. So I dont see why basic resistance to madness manip 3 will even work.

Greater Curse Manipulation, Pain Manipulation, Madness Manipulation (Type 3; Is capable of resisting the Curse King, Kaihilam Jiste's most powerful curse "Giagi Gigior Gigiga". Releasing cursed sludge, it is a curse of death that gnaws away at the source carrying the resentment of the dead caster and giving voice to their intense emotions, the voice is capable of compelling those it is conveyed to. It grows stronger every passing moment transforming everything it touches into cursed sludge in turn. It multiplies the pain the caster suffered in death and inflicts it on those it touches and the voices are capable of driving those who hear it insane[110])

Not to mention the Recollectors madness manip stems from their alien and eldritch nature, while this one just stems from being driven mad by intense emotions or voices? You wouldnt assume a person who resists mm3 from something extremely gross and vile looking entity for example would resist mm3 from a being whos eldritch and alien. These two are completely different feats in processing different types of extreme information.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Also dont all their magic attacks also still have their field which is basically the lore.

Yes, they do. Almost every magic has a field of their own (I think except for Necromancy, though that is in general weird since it deals with loss, which is everywhere, so-)

Wouldnt mm3 still work since even when someone was resisting it literally breaking and shattering their mind, it still made them lose the will to fight. That's far more potent and multi-faceted than whats described here. So I dont see why basic resistance to madness manip 3 will even work.

Not to mention the Recollectors madness manip stems from their alien and eldritch nature, while this one just stems from being driven mad by intense emotions or voices? You wouldnt assume a person who resists mm3 from something extremely gross and vile looking entity for example would resist mm3 from a being whos eldritch and alien. These two are completely different feats in processing different types of extreme information.

This as well, since their Madness Resistance is based on a curse doing weird shenanigans (voices and whatnot), whereas here it is because of the eldritch nature of the Recollector, with the minds of others shattering, becoming insane, etc... because its nature is so screwed.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Even ignoring the layering + potency shenanigans (shit is weird there, normal magic resist engulfs the body, but other stronger ones were stated to be the size of a mountain or some shit), wdym here?

You're confusing me actually cause I don't get what you're referring to.

Recollector directly absorbs their plot, or just damages it with the plethora of attacks they have, and from what I'm seeing, there is no plot resistance on their profile.

The plot in PoTD is a fundamental shenanigan, that comprises everything, and getting hit by it is kind of an instant gg. It doesn't require their source, since the plot here is also a fundamental shit on the level of concepts (if not more, ngl).

This is only relevant depending on what the plot manipulation itself does. The source grounds everything about a person's existence, in fact, the source is the person in question and the physical body is just a vessel at the end of the day. Their power and abilities all come from the source, is contained there and it's confirmed in verse that the source is the only thing that matters. As long as it remains, anyone can be revived or reborn with their abilities intact, if you absorb the source of another, you get every single ability they have except some minor exceptions.

Point is the plot absorption at the end of the day doesn't matter if the Recollector doesn't have the required CM needed to overcome their resistance.
Plot, Law, Concept, Info, none is inherently superior to the other so there's no reason why plot absorption would be detrimental to them if it can't affect the necessary concept that matters.

Also, he's directly attacking with Chronomancy, and it IS plot, all kinds of magic is plot (hell, they are crystallization of the soul, which is Plot). Especially Recollector, since its attacks affect the Soul, and Magic in general is Lore/Narrative. It's not that they are just spawned from CM or Plot, it is that they ARE the Plot.

The profile in no way makes it seem that way, I mean mana is something spawned from a narrative and magic being the reshaping of what is.
The magic that characters in the verse use is Order, that being CM 1, Law and Fate but none of these things are required to resist magic in the general sense unless it manipulates any of these things in question. The reason resistance to Order is granted to anyone who resists a God's power is cause it's confirmed that all their works are Order if a God distorts time, what they're actually distorting is Order not time, if they create flames, the flame itself too is Order etc.

Also, can they even affect the Recollector's rivers of time? Since even those instances could attack you (and if you don't have the lore of Chronomancy, you are not affecting those rivers of time directly), and can do their weird shenanigans.

Didn't say she could but she can spawn camp him if he just keeps coming back. She doesn't have the range anyway and speaking of, does the recollector actually qualify? From what I can see, no one in the tier has the range to do anything about it

Furthermore, if there's no resistance to MM on their profile, then they're getting cooked the moment the fight starts. Though, what is the feat of MM3 they resist, anyways?

It's not like it's not accepted, their profiles are just outdated. Tis what happens when one concentrates on just the OP MC + the verses other profiles were released much later than theirs so other characters aren't lacking much in comparison.

Anyway, MM and absorption resistance isn't on the profile currently so the Recollector takes the spot ig

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Didn't say she could but she can spawn camp him if he just keeps coming back. She doesn't have the range anyway and speaking of, does the recollector actually qualify? From what I can see, no one in the tier has the range to do anything about it

It doesnt require tier 2 range though? I thought I made that clear.

For it to be smurf they'd have to be across all periods of time when the Recollectors selves only exist across dozens of 1 second intervals of time and those get constantly regenerated.

 

[Rikimarox2]

You're confusing me actually cause I don't get what you're referring to.

This is only relevant depending on what the plot manipulation itself does. The source grounds everything about a person's existence, in fact, the source is the person in question and the physical body is just a vessel at the end of the day. Their power and abilities all come from the source, is contained there and it's confirmed in verse that the source is the only thing that matters. As long as it remains, anyone can be revived or reborn with their abilities intact, if you absorb the source of another, you get every single ability they have except some minor exceptions.

Point is the plot absorption at the end of the day doesn't matter if the Recollector doesn't have the required CM needed to overcome their resistance.
Plot, Law, Concept, Info, none is inherently superior to the other so there's no reason why plot absorption would be detrimental to them if it can't affect the necessary concept that matters.

I don't think that's how it works? I'm genuinely confused.

If the character hasn't shown to be able to exist even when its Plot/Narrative is destroyed, there is no reason to assume they'll continue to exist. You said it yourself, none of them are superior to each other, true, because each one does it its own way. A character existing without a concept or regenerating from a destroyed concept does not mean they'll regenerate/exist after Info destruction, for example.

Similarly, if a character were to exist without plot, it does not mean it'll exist without info/concept.

It's a fundamental thing, and they've not shown to resist it in any way, since Maou Gakuin does not have it. At least, that's how I thought it always worked.

The profile in no way makes it seem that way, I mean mana is something spawned from a narrative and magic being the reshaping of what is.
The magic that characters in the verse use is Order, that being CM 1, Law and Fate but none of these things are required to resist magic in the general sense unless it manipulates any of these things in question. The reason resistance to Order is granted to anyone who resists a God's power is cause it's confirmed that all their works are Order if a God distorts time, what they're actually distorting is Order not time, if they create flames, the flame itself too is Order etc.

I'll admit perhaps I should've clarified more on that stuff, but iirc I did a CRT for this. Regardless, they do, in fact, effect the laws, concepts, and plot. Since via Mana and Magic, you change the narrative (and of yours). Hell, every character has a mana field that is basically Plot as well. If you want, I can go ahead and grab the scans (though probably not today)

Didn't say she could but she can spawn camp him if he just keeps coming back. She doesn't have the range anyway and speaking of, does the recollector actually qualify? From what I can see, no one in the tier has the range to do anything about it

It's not smurf as TeaParty mentioned (and what I said quite a few messages back), but I'm pretty sure she can't even spawn camp him, since it can revert back in time (not all of time, just its own though it can affect others) and go back in place where it was seconds ago. Its teleportation is aids, ngl.

It's not like it's not accepted, their profiles are just outdated. Tis what happens when one concentrates on just the OP MC + the verses other profiles were released much later than theirs so other characters aren't lacking much in comparison.

Anyway, MM and absorption resistance isn't on the profile currently so the Recollector takes the spot ig

Rip Regardless, even if they got the resistance, it's of a different nature compared to Recollector. Though even then, it'll be an incon if it worked (and plot didn't work), but Recollector still beats the Chinaman above.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I don't think that's how it works? I'm genuinely confused.

If the character hasn't shown to be able to exist even when its Plot/Narrative is destroyed, there is no reason to assume they'll continue to exist. You said it yourself, none of them are superior to each other, true, because each one does it its own way. A character existing without a concept or regenerating from a destroyed concept does not mean they'll regenerate/exist after Info destruction, for example.

Similarly, if a character were to exist without plot, it does not mean it'll exist without info/concept.

It's a fundamental thing, and they've not shown to resist it in any way, since Maou Gakuin does not have it. At least, that's how I thought it always worked.

I can't say with confidence that I'm correct so this is more of my opinion on it.

When we equalize verses for the sake of match ups, we do it with the assumption that the characters also possess common fundamentals like souls, concepts, laws, plot even if it isn't in the verse itself we however do not dictate how fundamental the application is especially for CM, IM, LM, FM and PM that we currently do not accept any as being superior to the other so if it's already shown that they only require one or more of these to keep existing, the lack of that aspect in the verse if anything is proof that they don't require it if you ask me.

Anyway, that aside, I think you didn't get my point. The source, their concept is the only thing that matters. One can alter everything about a person by altering the source in fact, there is no person without the source, in other words, what they are in the truest sense is a concept. A concept that exists on its own doesn't require any of the other aspects to keep existing.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah, I'm not sure that is how it works ngl. Though I believe that requires a QnA thread or something. That said, the Recollector should still win in the end due to the MM shenanigans, Potent af resistance negation (which I see no resistance to in their pages), and, well, Plot shenanigans as well even if I'm not 100% sure on how it works here (since, well, in Maou Gakuin only the source matters, but in that verse there was nothing about Plot, so there's no guarantee that they can survive Plot destruction, but whatever)

 

[Deonment]

(since, well, in Maou Gakuin only the source matters, but in that verse there was nothing about Plot, so there's no guarantee that they can survive Plot destruction, but whatever)

It's less that, and more than they only require their source to function (the entire skilled magicians can keep their mind/memories in their source and whatnot), and so it becomes a matter of them being capable of only acting with their Concept, and so it's a matter of can plot interact with concepts
But uh, that currently only applies to their next key, so idk why the source is exactly relevant here

 

[Rikimarox2]

It's less that, and more than they only require their source to function (the entire skilled magicians can keep their mind/memories in their source and whatnot), and so it becomes a matter of them being capable of only acting with their Concept, and so it's a matter of can plot interact with concepts

Ah, so regardless, the Plot Manip would require proof that it can pierce through layers of concept resistance? I don't assume it's just normal interaction with concepts (Since the Plot can affect Concepts, if that matters here)?

But uh, that currently only applies to their next key, so idk why the source is exactly relevant here

Bruh

 

[Deonment]

Ah, so regardless, the Plot Manip would require proof that it can pierce through layers of concept resistance? I don't assume it's just normal interaction with concepts (Since the Plot can affect Concepts, if that matters here)?

A)That it can interact with concepts
B)That it is more fundamental than concepts
Either one, and the former generally comes with implications of layered nonsense given what you've said above, that's all you'd need to interface with the source to my understanding

 

[DaReaperMan]

Golgfag Maneater

Golgfаg Maneater is the most infamous, rich, and successful Ogre Mercenary across Malus, having been active for over sixty years and counting and never stopping, no matter how many powerful people who hire him such as Ungrim Ironfist or Grimgor Ironhide he crosses, he still survives.[1][2][3]...

vsbattles.fandom.com

This guy to placehold in 6-C

 

[Deonment]

Digimon is still in second place 6-C

Lmao how
Anyways, what does Golgfag have against Grimmon using a single thing of Chrono DSR or ripping him apart at the quantum level

 

[DaReaperMan]

Lmao how
Anyways, what does Golgfag have against Grimmon using a single thing of Chrono DSR or ripping him apart at the quantum level

I said to placehold lmfao

I don't expect him to legit beat anyone it'd just be funny

 

[Deonment]

I said to placehold lmfao

I don't expect him to legit beat anyone it'd just be funny

Wait I was looking at the wrong list, whoops
I thought this was smurf, I'm just gonna

 

[Rikimarox2]

Guys, this is the non-smurf version. What the hell is Low 1-A range dude doing here

 

[DaReaperMan]

Guys, this is the non-smurf version. What the hell is Low 1-A range dude doing here

It's a gray area. Basically you can atill mindhax/soulhax Golgtacobellbong Maneater normally, problem is interacting to do it.

 

[Minaaaa]

Are accepted ratings allowed even if they haven't been applied yet

 

[Tatsumi504]

But uh, that currently only applies to their next key, so idk why the source is exactly relevant here

Was gonna mention it myself but forgot, it's actually in the last key for their current profiles that they get to that level. Anyway, my point was that if it's just absorbing plot and not material absorption, then the Recollector would gain nothing from doing so

 

[Rikimarox2]

Was gonna mention it myself but forgot, it's actually in the last key for their current profiles that they get to that level. Anyway, my point was that if it's just absorbing plot and not material absorption, then the Recollector would gain nothing from doing so

It absorbs pretty much everything iirc (it absorbed material, inorganic mfs, time/history, plot, soul and mind, etc...)

 

[Tatsumi504]

It absorbs pretty much everything iirc (it absorbed material, inorganic mfs, time/history, plot, soul and mind, etc...)

Yeah, that'll do it especially since she doesn't resist absorption

 

[Dragonite007]

I

Y

So...................

What I need to change?

 

[Tatsumi504]

So...................

What I need to change?

Recollector to no. 1 in 6-C

 

[Minaaaa]

Question, can DP ghosts be bfr'd/do you have to interact with AE1 & CM1 for it to work

 

[Planck69]

Question, can DP ghosts be bfr'd/do you have to interact with AE1 & CM1 for it to work

Well, yes, this goes for anything. You have to be able to interact with/or have feats for it. Unless the BFR is like, opening a portal then moving the portal in their direction.