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Void Hunter 2.0 vs Upper Moon 4 (4-2-0)

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shungus against another upper moon huh, she's really gonna run the whole gauntlet at this rate lol

following, will respond with a lengthier response in a bit but going off of zohakuten's profile i assume the whole "find the main hantengu body and kill it" condition isn't going to be a factor here right? shungus would probably have a pretty easy time finding the main hantengu body thanks to both her enhanced senses and extrasensory perception
 
shungus against another upper moon huh, she's really gonna run the whole gauntlet at this rate lol

following, will respond with a lengthier response in a bit but going off of zohakuten's profile i assume the whole "find the main hantengu body and kill it" condition isn't going to be a factor here right? shungus would probably have a pretty easy time finding the main hantengu body thanks to both her enhanced senses and extrasensory perception
Is that really necessary here? Couldn't Ye Shunguang just permanently kill Zohakuten by using her Purification ability?
 
following, will respond with a lengthier response in a bit but going off of zohakuten's profile i assume the whole "find the main hantengu body and kill it" condition isn't going to be a factor here right? shungus would probably have a pretty easy time finding the main hantengu body thanks to both her enhanced senses and extrasensory perception
finding the main body is one thing, but she still has to deal with Zohakuten on her ass at all times since he's already fully formed in this case. Zohakuten is effectively immortal, since he can regenerate from essentially everything as long as the main body is alive. He can spam dozens of his giant wooden dragons at a time and spam dense AoE lightning attacks that would instantly paralyze her and leave her open to getting her skull crushed.

so how does she deal with Zohakuten?

Is that really necessary here? Couldn't Ye Shunguang just permanently kill Zohakuten by using her Purification ability?
how does purifying miasma kill Zohakuten? seems like an utterly useless ability here.
 
Is that really necessary here? Couldn't Ye Shunguang just permanently kill Zohakuten by using her Purification ability?
i don't think it'd really work like that, if yunkui summit's purification techniques were able to just completely destroy ethereals then maybe but otherwise i don't think purification alone would completely kill zohakuten

finding the main body is one thing, but she still has to deal with Zohakuten on her ass at all times since he's already fully formed in this case. Zohakuten is effectively immortal, since he can regenerate from essentially everything as long as the main body is alive. He can spam dozens of his giant wooden dragons at a time and spam dense AoE lightning attacks that would instantly paralyze her and leave her open to getting her skull crushed.

so how does she deal with Zohakuten?
it's late so i'll probably type out a lengthier response tomorrow but shunguang is range diffing zohakuten like, reaaaally badly. his range seems to cap out at a few dozen meters going off his profile, meanwhile shunguang can casually just attack from literal hundreds of meters in the sky, which is quite literally her primary method of fighting while in her white haired form. none of his attacks are going to matter purely off the range diff, and shunguang isn't getting close enough to him to even give him a chance of actually landing a hit on her

assuming finding and taking out the main body is a valid wincon here like in the actual series, then shungus can focus all her attention on that since none of zohakuten's attacks can actually reach her. and with the perception technique i don't think she should have too much trouble finding it. from there she just sends a bunch of swords directly towards it and then it's kind of just a done deal from there
 
it's late so i'll probably type out a lengthier response tomorrow but shunguang is range diffing zohakuten like, reaaaally badly. his range seems to cap out at a few dozen meters going off his profile, meanwhile shunguang can casually just attack from literal hundreds of meters in the sky, which is quite literally her primary method of fighting while in her white haired form. none of his attacks are going to matter purely off the range diff, and shunguang isn't getting close enough to him to even give him a chance of actually landing a hit on her

assuming finding and taking out the main body is a valid wincon here like in the actual series, then shungus can focus all her attention on that since none of zohakuten's attacks can actually reach her. and with the perception technique i don't think she should have too much trouble finding it. from there she just sends a bunch of swords directly towards it and then it's kind of just a done deal from there
but that's assuming that the main body is 100 meters in one direction, while Zohakuten is 100 meters in a completely different direction. Minitengu could be nestled up in a little wood cocoon next to Zohakuten, or just have Zohakuten stand in the way of him and Shunguang. either way, she has to deal with Zohakuten somehow.

and i don't understand how range diffing Hantengu is gonna be a win-con, because unless her attacks are laced with UV rays or some sort of regen-negging energy, then she can't actually harm Zohakuten or Minitengu in any way. and even if she could, Zohakuten could still use his wooden dragons as shields to survive any long-range barrage. also, if her attacks spawn 100 meters in the air, then it just makes them much easier to dodge, and it means she wouldn't actually be 100 meters away from Zohakuten when attacking him.

the only way Shunguang can pull a win here is if she survives to sunrise and restrains Minitengu in the sun.
 
if her attacks spawn 100 meters in the air, then it just makes them much easier to dodge
for example, imagine this:

Character A shoots Character B with a Mach 1 projectile from 100 meters away, and Character B moves 5 meters to dodge.

The formula for dodging a projectile is V = (Character Distance x Projectile Speed) / Projectile's Distance

Because Character B moves a whole 5 meters in the timeframe it takes the Mach 1 projectile to cross 100m, it would come out to (5 meters x 343 m/s) / 100m, which equals 17.15 m/s

In other words, Character B is a whole 20 times slower than the projectile he's dodging, but he still had no issue dodging it simply because it was fired from an absurd distance. And 5 meters is somewhat of a higher end estimate, because if the projectile is thin, then even moving like 1-2 meters would be enough to dodge, so Character B could be ridiculously slower than the projectile but would still dodge it.

it would be the exact same here, so unless those swords with a range of hundreds of meters have ridiculous AoE or are several blitz amps above Shunguang's own combat speed, then they would realistically never land a single hit.
 
but that's assuming that the main body is 100 meters in one direction, while Zohakuten is 100 meters in a completely different direction. Minitengu could be nestled up in a little wood cocoon next to Zohakuten, or just have Zohakuten stand in the way of him and Shunguang. either way, she has to deal with Zohakuten somehow
i was kind of just going off of the assumption that minitengu would be off somewhere else running around, like what happened in the original series. shunguang would have an easier time essentially just avoiding fighting zohakuten altogether and focusing all her attention on finding minitengu to end the fight that way

though i guess that would be assuming she has prior knowledge on the fact that killing minitengu would kill zohakuten. without that prior knowledge i don't know if she'd be able to figure it out in time before she gets worn down, and if zohakuten is actively protecting minitengu then she's kind of just stuck. spatial attacks would at least be able to do damage but she can't permanently keep zohakuten down without either stalling till sunrise or killing minitengu. and given how much the qingming sword drains her i don't think she's stalling zohakuten long enough to kill him via the sun. she could try to gamble and go for a massive AOE nuke but if she doesn't manage to completely kill both zohakuten and minitengu with it then she's basically screwed

in that case then yeah, zohakuten is probably stonewalling her. i think she just gets stamina diffed tbh
 
i was kind of just going off of the assumption that minitengu would be off somewhere else running around, like what happened in the original series. shunguang would have an easier time essentially just avoiding fighting zohakuten altogether and focusing all her attention on finding minitengu to end the fight that wa
well, what i described is basically exactly what happened in canon



Zohakuten wrapped Minitengu in his wood cocoon to protect him, then sent that wood cocoon in an entirely different direction in the forest (seemingly from underground) while fighting off Mitsuri. and even when Tanjiro and his squad tracked down the cocoon, Minitengu still managed to escape from underneath, with that cocoon fighting back with vine attacks while being turned into an actual demon tree.

the point is that Zohakuten is actively looking out for Minitengu, but couldn't properly protect him because he was distracted by Mitsuri. in a 1v1 scenario, that would almost never be the case because Zohakuten would always be close.

(also worth mentioning that Minitengu has Urami, a backup summon, to protect him even after he's caught)

though i guess that would be assuming she has prior knowledge on the fact that killing minitengu would kill zohakuten. without that prior knowledge i don't know if she'd be able to figure it out in time before she gets worn down, and if zohakuten is actively protecting minitengu then she's kind of just stuck. spatial attacks would at least be able to do damage but she can't permanently keep zohakuten down without either stalling till sunrise or killing minitengu. and given how much the qingming sword drains her i don't think she's stalling zohakuten long enough to kill him via the sun. she could try to gamble and go for a massive AOE nuke but if she doesn't manage to completely kill both zohakuten and minitengu with it then she's basically screwed

in that case then yeah, zohakuten is probably stonewalling her. i think she just gets stamina diffed tbh
that nuke probably isn't doing much if i'm being honest. but i agree that she most likely gets stamina-diffed before she figures out Hantengu's trick. at first glance, she would probably assume that Zohakuten is protecting Minitengu simply because he's weaker and not because he's his actual lifeline, so she would target Zohakuten. and by the time she'd figure it out, if she does in the first place, Minitengu could've gone to a completely different country.
 
Yeah, Qingming sword drawback is really what handicapped Shungus here outlasting wise, unless she can finally able to catch Minitengu, the memory draining will pretty much going to met the same fate as Yixuan sister
 
Zohakuten's power growth is also something that should be noted. Zohakuten can continuously make himself stronger and faster by draining power directly from the main body, and although he's restricted from reaching High 7-C, he would still be able to reach a one-shot difference in strength at one point
 
Yeah, Qingming sword drawback is really what handicapped Shungus here outlasting wise, unless she can finally able to catch Minitengu, the memory draining will pretty much going to met the same fate as Yixuan sister
Ehhhh that not is that bad anymore.

Anyway I will go with Ye Shunguang.

It's shouldn't take long at all.
 
it would be the exact same here, so unless those swords with a range of hundreds of meters have ridiculous AoE or are several blitz amps above Shunguang's own combat speed, then they would realistically never land a single hit.
they do in fact have massive AOE. they're pretty compact together and cover a massive area, so i don't think zohakuten's gonna be UI weaving through them all. granted, they aren't going to be able to kill him on their own, but they can apply pressure, which means zohakuten's either gonna have to facetank them and regen through them or rely on his wood dragons to block them

shunguang being way up in the air still means that she doesn't really have to worry about any of zohakuten's attacks actually hitting her, so the big issue is going to be whether or not she can reliably take down zohakuten before she loses the war of attrition

i already brought up the massive AOE nuke which could potentially take out both minitengu and zohakuten in a single go, but shunguang's spatial slashes on their own also have a massive range and cover a pretty wide area. zohakuten trying to protect himself with his wood dragons shouldn't matter since spatial attacks should be able to slice through all of them like butter. if minitengu is on zohakuten's person then she doesn't really have to worry about figuring out the minitengu weakness if she just completely eradicates both of them in a single go. and it's not like her spatial slashes have a cooldown to them, she can chain them back to back in rapid succession. it's very possible a single massive spatial slash just completely takes out both zohakuten and minitengu simultaneously

if minitengu is separated and away from zohakuten, then it becomes a lot trickier, but i think it might still be possible for her to deduce things. yunkui summit's perception technique allows for the ability to tell "real people" from fake, as in the case with the drowned ideals, so you could make an argument that it'd be able to help clue shunguang in on the fact that zohakuten isn't hantengu's "main" body. even if you don't wanna assume that it'd be able to straight up show shunguang that zohakuten isn't hantengu's main body though, then i think it's at the very least likely that it'd clue her in on the fact that zohakuten is made of two separate "entities" with separate ether traces

if shunguang sees zohakuten actively going out of his way to protect something via a wood casing, it's also possible that she might just assume it to be similar to an ethereal's ether core. they're the weak points of ethereals within ZZZ, and stronger boss ethereals have unique ways of protecting/covering their cores to prevent them from taking lethal damage, so if she sees zohakuten encasing something in wood and guarding it, it's not unreasonable for her to assume "oh, this monster might have a core/weak point similar to an ethereal, i should target that." especially if zohakuten is just continuously regenerating from all of her attacks with no signs of slowing down

if shunguang is at least aware of the fact that zohakuten is two separate entities, then even in the event that minitengu breaks free from the wood casing and starts to flee in a different direction, i think she's smart enough to put two and two together and at least assume that both of the ether traces are connected somehow. and given the perception technique also allows for the ability to track and sense ether trails, she shouldn't have that much trouble tracking down minitengu even if he tries to run and hide. obviously killing such a tiny figure is a lot easier said than done, but with her own agility + range + massive AOE i think she can do it, especially if she at least knows the general area he's in. plus the revelation technique also allows shunguang to sense and find hidden objects, so she should be able to find minitengu even if he's hidden
 
Ehhhh that not is that bad anymore.

Anyway I will go with Ye Shunguang.

It's shouldn't take long at all.
Yeah but it's still worth to bring it out about Qingming sword drawback even currently she's able to mastering it

My issue about this match is still about the stonewalling wise, unlike Gyokko, Hantengu/Zohakuten kits is really good to keep her at bay (the giant woods spam on top of most of those having all of the previous emotions clone power which all of them are AoE attacks, and dealing with Minitengu who is really hard to catch up and Zohakuten is linked to Minitengu so no matter how much you demolished him, until you finally able to kill Minitengu, the former will just regenerate as much as he can)
 
Not the first time that agents face enemy that needed to destroy/kill something first to depower them.

After few seconds of fighting she gonna notice that the dude just keep getting stronger

She then use her technique to see what is happening and then see that he is connecting to something, and then this turn into a very oneside hide and seek.

She can fly, her attacks in white mode have space manip and probably can just ignore anything that they try to use to hide and cover the mini dude.
 
they do in fact have massive AOE. they're pretty compact together and cover a massive area, so i don't think zohakuten's gonna be UI weaving through them all. granted, they aren't going to be able to kill him on their own, but they can apply pressure, which means zohakuten's either gonna have to facetank them and regen through them or rely on his wood dragons to block them
to be honest, this doesn't look like it's that threatening. looking at it frame by frame, there seems to be a good few meters in between the swords, so the attack isn't all that dense. Zohakuten would only need to block or dodge a fraction of them. and correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm seeing, using the sword seems to drain her, so going for a full AoE attack that covers a radius of what seems to be a dozen meters or so for one singular target would just be a waste of energy,
nnI4Zz1.png

shunguang being way up in the air still means that she doesn't really have to worry about any of zohakuten's attacks actually hitting her, so the big issue is going to be whether or not she can reliably take down zohakuten before she loses the war of attrition
sure, but being further away would also mean Zohakuten will have a way easier time reacting to and blocking attacks, so at the end of the day it comes down to infinite regeneration + infinite stamina allowing Hantengu to thrive in the long game.

i already brought up the massive AOE nuke which could potentially take out both minitengu and zohakuten in a single go, but shunguang's spatial slashes on their own also have a massive range and cover a pretty wide area. zohakuten trying to protect himself with his wood dragons shouldn't matter since spatial attacks should be able to slice through all of them like butter. if minitengu is on zohakuten's person then she doesn't really have to worry about figuring out the minitengu weakness if she just completely eradicates both of them in a single go. and it's not like her spatial slashes have a cooldown to them, she can chain them back to back in rapid succession. it's very possible a single massive spatial slash just completely takes out both zohakuten and minitengu simultaneously
the AoE nuke wouldn't really do much. due to the inverse square law, as the energy of an explosion expands outwards in a spherical wave, its intensity drops dramatically. if you double the distance of the blast, the shockwave's pressure is reduced to 1/4th of its power, if you triple it, then it drops to 1/9th of its power. essentially, for AoE explosions like this, Zohakuten and Minitengu would only be taking in a fraction of that power, and considering Shunguang's AP is initially a 1/3rd of Zohakuten's durability, with the gap only getting bigger as Zohakuten draws more and more power, then the nuke would honestly be less effective then her normal slashing attacks (Minitengu's durability is also like 300 Kilotons or something around that)

(also i may be wrong but in the clip you sent earlier, Shunguang seems to pass out after using the nuke?)

as for the WCS-like spatial slashes, I actually agree that they could do the job. the only issue is that this would have to be an opening move, or something that Shunguang does very early on, because Minitengu's little wood cocoon would instantly go underground and tunnel dozens of meters away before resurfacing, and will continue to run away on land afterwards. Minitengu wouldn't just be chilling on Zohakuten's shoulder or something.

if she completely erases Zohakuten in one swing, but the main body is still around, then Minitengu could just respawn Zohakuten or the other clones right back, so at worst it'll just become an infinite loop and a stamina game.

but if it's something she saves as a last resort or something that she does pretty late into her fights, then it becomes a question of how much power Zohakuten has drained. because as i mentioned before, Zohakuten continuously makes himself stronger and faster as the fight progresses, to the point of reaching a one-shot level above his AP and matching a speedblitz gap with his reaction speed. i'm not saying Zohakuten would blitz and one-tap, but if the spatial attack isn't a high enough amp in attack speed and is a late-game move, then Zohakuten will probably just have grown fast enough to avoid it. of course, i'm referring to the wide slash, because the thinner slashes (if they're also spatial attacks) would be regeneratable.
if minitengu is separated and away from zohakuten, then it becomes a lot trickier, but i think it might still be possible for her to deduce things. yunkui summit's perception technique allows for the ability to tell "real people" from fake, as in the case with the drowned ideals, so you could make an argument that it'd be able to help clue shunguang in on the fact that zohakuten isn't hantengu's "main" body. even if you don't wanna assume that it'd be able to straight up show shunguang that zohakuten isn't hantengu's main body though, then i think it's at the very least likely that it'd clue her in on the fact that zohakuten is made of two separate "entities" with separate ether traces
maybe? does telling "real people" from fake mean that she sees souls? because Zohakuten is made up of four major fragments of Hantengu's mind. they're technically the same person, but considering Hantengu can't actually control Zohakuten and they have a vastly different personality, I'd say it works more like separating a part of his soul and making it independent, in which case she would probably be seeing two completely separate entities, unless she can also see something like a spiritual link between them and understand that Zohakuten is empowering himself with Minitengu.

if it's just seeing past illusions and stuff like that, then i don't think it would really help.
if shunguang sees zohakuten actively going out of his way to protect something via a wood casing, it's also possible that she might just assume it to be similar to an ethereal's ether core. they're the weak points of ethereals within ZZZ, and stronger boss ethereals have unique ways of protecting/covering their cores to prevent them from taking lethal damage, so if she sees zohakuten encasing something in wood and guarding it, it's not unreasonable for her to assume "oh, this monster might have a core/weak point similar to an ethereal, i should target that." especially if zohakuten is just continuously regenerating from all of her attacks with no signs of slowing down
it's possible, but if she uses her summit perception ability so see the that there are two separate living beings, i think she would just understand it as "strong big buy protects weak little guy".

also, Zohakuten's opening dialogue would be shaming her for picking on the weak (Minitengu)
if shunguang is at least aware of the fact that zohakuten is two separate entities, then even in the event that minitengu breaks free from the wood casing and starts to flee in a different direction, i think she's smart enough to put two and two together and at least assume that both of the ether traces are connected somehow. and given the perception technique also allows for the ability to track and sense ether trails, she shouldn't have that much trouble tracking down minitengu even if he tries to run and hide. obviously killing such a tiny figure is a lot easier said than done, but with her own agility + range + massive AOE i think she can do it, especially if she at least knows the general area he's in. plus the revelation technique also allows shunguang to sense and find hidden objects, so she should be able to find minitengu even if he's hidden
i mean, Minitengu's durability is currently like 300 Kilotons or something like that, and his overall speed and agility are far greater than Zohakuten's, so to be honest I don't think Minitengu is gonna have much issue avoiding her AoE swords.

and Mintengu himself isn't helpless. of course, Zohakuten would be there to intercept anything flying his way, and if Zohakuten is gone then all the power that he drains would go right back to the main body, in which case it would instead just completely empower Urami instead.

to summarize my thoughts, I think Zohakuten's regeneration is too good and too fast to take any real damage, and his power draining would make him way too tanky and way too fast for any attack to matter in the long game. as long as he keeps an eye on Minitengu and applies pressure when he can, then he pretty much stonewalls everything thrown at him. i also don't think it's a stretch to say that Shunguang gets dismantled in an actual close fight, considering Zohakuten has multiple dense AoE, paralyzing and one-shot abilities on top of a nearly 3x AP advantage.

Hantengu FRA
 
to be honest, this doesn't look like it's that threatening. looking at it frame by frame, there seems to be a good few meters in between the swords, so the attack isn't all that dense. Zohakuten would only need to block or dodge a fraction of them. and correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm seeing, using the sword seems to drain her, so going for a full AoE attack that covers a radius of what seems to be a dozen meters or so for one singular target would just be a waste of energy,
nnI4Zz1.png


sure, but being further away would also mean Zohakuten will have a way easier time reacting to and blocking attacks, so at the end of the day it comes down to infinite regeneration + infinite stamina allowing Hantengu to thrive in the long game.


the AoE nuke wouldn't really do much. due to the inverse square law, as the energy of an explosion expands outwards in a spherical wave, its intensity drops dramatically. if you double the distance of the blast, the shockwave's pressure is reduced to 1/4th of its power, if you triple it, then it drops to 1/9th of its power. essentially, for AoE explosions like this, Zohakuten and Minitengu would only be taking in a fraction of that power, and considering Shunguang's AP is initially a 1/3rd of Zohakuten's durability, with the gap only getting bigger as Zohakuten draws more and more power, then the nuke would honestly be less effective then her normal slashing attacks (Minitengu's durability is also like 300 Kilotons or something around that)

(also i may be wrong but in the clip you sent earlier, Shunguang seems to pass out after using the nuke?)

as for the WCS-like spatial slashes, I actually agree that they could do the job. the only issue is that this would have to be an opening move, or something that Shunguang does very early on, because Minitengu's little wood cocoon would instantly go underground and tunnel dozens of meters away before resurfacing, and will continue to run away on land afterwards. Minitengu wouldn't just be chilling on Zohakuten's shoulder or something.

if she completely erases Zohakuten in one swing, but the main body is still around, then Minitengu could just respawn Zohakuten or the other clones right back, so at worst it'll just become an infinite loop and a stamina game.

but if it's something she saves as a last resort or something that she does pretty late into her fights, then it becomes a question of how much power Zohakuten has drained. because as i mentioned before, Zohakuten continuously makes himself stronger and faster as the fight progresses, to the point of reaching a one-shot level above his AP and matching a speedblitz gap with his reaction speed. i'm not saying Zohakuten would blitz and one-tap, but if the spatial attack isn't a high enough amp in attack speed and is a late-game move, then Zohakuten will probably just have grown fast enough to avoid it. of course, i'm referring to the wide slash, because the thinner slashes (if they're also spatial attacks) would be regeneratable.

maybe? does telling "real people" from fake mean that she sees souls? because Zohakuten is made up of four major fragments of Hantengu's mind. they're technically the same person, but considering Hantengu can't actually control Zohakuten and they have a vastly different personality, I'd say it works more like separating a part of his soul and making it independent, in which case she would probably be seeing two completely separate entities, unless she can also see something like a spiritual link between them and understand that Zohakuten is empowering himself with Minitengu.

if it's just seeing past illusions and stuff like that, then i don't think it would really help.

it's possible, but if she uses her summit perception ability so see the that there are two separate living beings, i think she would just understand it as "strong big buy protects weak little guy".

also, Zohakuten's opening dialogue would be shaming her for picking on the weak (Minitengu)

i mean, Minitengu's durability is currently like 300 Kilotons or something like that, and his overall speed and agility are far greater than Zohakuten's, so to be honest I don't think Minitengu is gonna have much issue avoiding her AoE swords.

and Mintengu himself isn't helpless. of course, Zohakuten would be there to intercept anything flying his way, and if Zohakuten is gone then all the power that he drains would go right back to the main body, in which case it would instead just completely empower Urami instead.

to summarize my thoughts, I think Zohakuten's regeneration is too good and too fast to take any real damage, and his power draining would make him way too tanky and way too fast for any attack to matter in the long game. as long as he keeps an eye on Minitengu and applies pressure when he can, then he pretty much stonewalls everything thrown at him. i also don't think it's a stretch to say that Shunguang gets dismantled in an actual close fight, considering Zohakuten has multiple dense AoE, paralyzing and one-shot abilities on top of a nearly 3x AP advantage.

Hantengu FRA
3x AP advantage???

Before amp???
 
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to be honest, this doesn't look like it's that threatening. looking at it frame by frame, there seems to be a good few meters in between the swords, so the attack isn't all that dense. Zohakuten would only need to block or dodge a fraction of them
they still cover a pretty massive range so at the very least zohakuten is still going to be eating hits from them. she can also group them up and focus them on a single point if she wants to apply extra pressure
and correct me if I'm wrong but from what I'm seeing, using the sword seems to drain her, so going for a full AoE attack that covers a radius of what seems to be a dozen meters or so for one singular target would just be a waste of energy,
the sword doesn't drain her as much anymore and she can use it more reliably, she basically had an entire training arc in an event where she learned to deepen her connection with the sword and utilize it more efficiently. i'd only really say the sword drains her a lot when she goes for massive attacks like the AOE nuke, but sword rain is something she spams pretty consistently so i wouldn't say it'd drain her stamina super quickly

the AoE nuke wouldn't really do much. due to the inverse square law, as the energy of an explosion expands outwards in a spherical wave, its intensity drops dramatically. if you double the distance of the blast, the shockwave's pressure is reduced to 1/4th of its power, if you triple it, then it drops to 1/9th of its power. essentially, for AoE explosions like this, Zohakuten and Minitengu would only be taking in a fraction of that power, and considering Shunguang's AP is initially a 1/3rd of Zohakuten's durability, with the gap only getting bigger as Zohakuten draws more and more power, then the nuke would honestly be less effective then her normal slashing attacks (Minitengu's durability is also like 300 Kilotons or something around that)
is that really how we treat ranged attacks here? i mean i'm not necessarily arguing against it, the logic makes sense but i don't think i've ever seen people take into account things like attacks from far range being weaker or slower depending on distance. if a character can attack with projectiles from 100m away, i sort just assumed that most people interpreted that as them maintaining their strength and speed even when fired from that far. but yeah, i guess if you want to interpret it that way then the nuke wouldn't do much (though you could also interpret it as being spatial manip given she seems to completely eradicate both the ethereals and the surrounding environment in the clip)

(also i may be wrong but in the clip you sent earlier, Shunguang seems to pass out after using the nuke?)
she does yeah, though her demo is implied to have taken place before her big training arc with mastering the sword. although if the nuke managed to completely kill both minitengu and zohakuten then her passing out right after wouldn't really matter imo, she'd still win as long as she managed to completely kill both before the sword overtaxed her

as for the WCS-like spatial slashes, I actually agree that they could do the job. the only issue is that this would have to be an opening move, or something that Shunguang does very early on, because Minitengu's little wood cocoon would instantly go underground and tunnel dozens of meters away before resurfacing, and will continue to run away on land afterwards. Minitengu wouldn't just be chilling on Zohakuten's shoulder or something.

if she completely erases Zohakuten in one swing, but the main body is still around, then Minitengu could just respawn Zohakuten or the other clones right back, so at worst it'll just become an infinite loop and a stamina game.

but if it's something she saves as a last resort or something that she does pretty late into her fights, then it becomes a question of how much power Zohakuten has drained. because as i mentioned before, Zohakuten continuously makes himself stronger and faster as the fight progresses, to the point of reaching a one-shot level above his AP and matching a speedblitz gap with his reaction speed. i'm not saying Zohakuten would blitz and one-tap, but if the spatial attack isn't a high enough amp in attack speed and is a late-game move, then Zohakuten will probably just have grown fast enough to avoid it. of course, i'm referring to the wide slash, because the thinner slashes (if they're also spatial attacks) would be regeneratable.
i think she'd probably go for the spatial attacks fairly quickly if she realizes zohakuten is just shrugging off her swords and regenning through them. if he spawns the wood dragons in to defend himself then that's probably going to warrant her pulling them out sooner as a way to just cleave through them like butter

maybe? does telling "real people" from fake mean that she sees souls? because Zohakuten is made up of four major fragments of Hantengu's mind. they're technically the same person, but considering Hantengu can't actually control Zohakuten and they have a vastly different personality, I'd say it works more like separating a part of his soul and making it independent, in which case she would probably be seeing two completely separate entities, unless she can also see something like a spiritual link between them and understand that Zohakuten is empowering himself with Minitengu.
i think her seeing zohakuten as "two separate entities" with both zohakuten and minitengu is probably the fairest interpretation, it is admittedly a bit vague in how it's described in-game. but like i mentioned, i think she's probably smart enough to put two and two together and realize that there's at least some kind of direct connection between both of them, especially if she sees zohakuten actively guarding and protecting minitengu. empathetic as she may be i don't think she'd hesitate to kill minitengu even if zohakuten berated her or if she realized minitengu was a tiny crying demon, especially given there's multiple cases of ethereals in ZZZ relying on similar emotional manipulation methods to give their targets a false sense of security before killing them

i mean, Minitengu's durability is currently like 300 Kilotons or something like that, and his overall speed and agility are far greater than Zohakuten's, so to be honest I don't think Minitengu is gonna have much issue avoiding her AoE swords.

and Mintengu himself isn't helpless. of course, Zohakuten would be there to intercept anything flying his way, and if Zohakuten is gone then all the power that he drains would go right back to the main body, in which case it would instead just completely empower Urami instead.
he can probably weave through the swords but the massive ranged spatial slashes would probably still be an issue. and if shunguang realizes that he needs to be taken out she can also just completely focus her swords directly onto him as previously mentioned. obviously zohakuten would still be there to defend if needed but if he's not careful they could both get lined up for a spatial attack and proceed to get one shot

i also don't think it's a stretch to say that Shunguang gets dismantled in an actual close fight, considering Zohakuten has multiple dense AoE, paralyzing and one-shot abilities on top of a nearly 3x AP advantage
not denying that though like i've mentioned i honestly don't think that really matters because of shunguang's aforementioned range advantage, she's not ever getting close enough to zohakuten to even make it a close ranged fight to begin with. only way zohakuten's winning imo is basically just stonewalling her attacks, keeping minitengu alive and just waiting her out in a battle of attrition like you already mentioned
 
is that really how we treat ranged attacks here? i mean i'm not necessarily arguing against it, the logic makes sense but i don't think i've ever seen people take into account things like attacks from far range being weaker or slower depending on distance. if a character can attack with projectiles from 100m away, i sort just assumed that most people interpreted that as them maintaining their strength and speed even when fired from that far. but yeah, i guess if you want to interpret it that way then the nuke wouldn't do much (though you could also interpret it as being spatial manip given she seems to completely eradicate both the ethereals and the surrounding environment in the clip)
Inverse square law would apply in crossverse matches if it's demonstrated to apply in-universe imo. But if it's shown to be just as strong at the edge (i.e. someone as strong as her is hit by the very edge and hurt severely), then you don't need to assume that. There are definitely verses where there is zero falloff on energy yield over distance.
 
Inverse square law would apply in crossverse matches if it's demonstrated to apply in-universe imo. But if it's shown to be just as strong at the edge (i.e. someone as strong as her is hit by the very edge and hurt severely), then you don't need to assume that. There are definitely verses where there is zero falloff on energy yield over distance.
i probably wouldn't say that there's explicit falloff in the case of shunguang's swords. that clip i linked in my other comment during her fight with sarah showed her getting completely overwhelmed by shunguang's swords despite how far she was firing them from

granted you could argue she was just getting overwhelmed by the sheer number/volume of them but i don't think the impact of the swords would've been nearly as devastating if they were getting weaker as a result of the distance
 
i probably wouldn't say that there's explicit falloff in the case of shunguang's swords. that clip i linked in my other comment during her fight with sarah showed her getting completely overwhelmed by shunguang's swords despite how far she was firing them from
Inverse square law wouldn't apply to the swords. Inverse square law is for omni-directional loss of energy for things like explosions or light spread out in a conical shape. Irl there'd be a loss of velocity and energy eventually, but the amount would be minuscule over her range to a point it doesn't matter for vs wiki matches.
granted you could argue she was just getting overwhelmed by the sheer number/volume of them but i don't think the impact of the swords would've been nearly as devastating if they were getting weaker as a result of the distance
I agree. I think Mach was prolly talking about the explosion she can generate. No one applies inverse square law to projectile attacks like that.
 
I agree. I think Mach was prolly talking about the explosion she can generate. No one applies inverse square law to projectile attacks like that.
that makes more sense. though i think shungus would only really go for the massive AOE nuke as an absolute last resort, especially given how much it seems to drain her energy. she's probably gonna be more reliant on the spatial slashes to try and kill zohakuten/minitengu
 
Why aren't we mentioning her sword spam exactly? I feel like the amount she can summon and utilize hasn't been mentioned or at least properly respected in their capability. Furthermore, are we just writing off the fact that she has Vital View too, together with the Danmaku, she'd have more hopes of hitting her target while avoiding Zohakuten. And this is on top of the fact she has teleportation and flight with her abilities and superior perception/reactions, any attack that can be done or force her hand would have to get past these first.
 
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