BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Hellscream]

Pretty sure that's you larping.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

what this about his comment? we already knew the OG plan of the quincys was the destabilization via killing the hollows, plan did not work out (Thanks to mayuri) so they went and kill the soul king, the whole destruction begins and the anime (urahara) outright says that the whole quakes is not cus of the cycle of souls, outright denying that the destruction is via the cycle.

 

[Trihexa102]

what this about his comment? we already knew the OG plan of the quincys was the destabilization via killing the hollows, plan did not work out (Thanks to mayuri) so they went and kill the soul king, the whole destruction begins and the anime (urahara) outright says that the whole quakes is not cus of the cycle of souls, outright denying that the destruction is via the cycle.

I mean jugram implies it is cause of destabilization and the consequences. He wouldn't mention the fragility of the world and the souls that they had to extinguish if didn't mean that.

 

[Hellscream]

I mean jugram implies it is cause of destabilization and the consequences. He wouldn't mention the fragility of the world and the souls that they had to extinguish if didn't mean that.

I'll take the word of the genius scientists that specified the rifts and trembling wasn't caused by the balance of souls.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I mean jugram implies it is cause of destabilization and the consequences. He wouldn't mention the fragility of the world and the souls that they had to extinguish if didn't mean that.

which is contradicted by the events of the whole war, we see them trying to do it, then fail due to mayuri etc. then we have urahara denying the chaos is due to the soul cycle. What jugram seems to be talking about and implying is the fact that due to the invasion all is destabilized, they killed yamamoto, they invaded the royal palace, they killed the soul king, then the YH became the new ruler, all they knew was thrown into the air, the stability they knew before its gone.

During the early episodes we see them talk about it too, YH questioning the method, how it did not work, killing the arrancar/quincy responsible for the plan etc. then stating the invasion plan is going to take place, the destabilization via killing hollows plan failed, so the invasion happened instead

 

[Trihexa102]

which is contradicted by the events of the whole war, we see them trying to do it, then fail due to mayuri etc. then we have urahara denying the chaos is due to the soul cycle. What jugram seems to be talking about and implying is the fact that due to the invasion all is destabilized, they killed yamamoto, they invaded the royal palace, they killed the soul king, then the YH became the new ruler, all they knew was thrown into the air, the stability they knew before its gone.

During the early episodes we see them talk about it too, YH questioning the method, how it did not work, killing the arrancar/quincy responsible for the plan etc. then stating the invasion plan is going to take place, the destabilization via killing hollows plan failed, so the invasion happened instead

I don't know man this seems like a reach Jugram heavily implies it cause of the destabilization of souls, we see a side effect of it via the Large Rifts. He mentions many factors like the death of hollows, Yamamoto, Squad zero and others which rocked the world to it's core. Urahara can't be taken correctly(also vague) then as he was wasn't sure, but Jugram implies what happened is the Plan executed by Yhwach and his sternritters. That means their goal is destabilization.

Edit: after rewatching the leaks am pretty sure it's destabilization, not like it changes much as yhwach's profile is still based on destabilization until Cour 4 expands on more it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I don't know man this seems like a reach Jugram heavily implies it cause of the destabilization of souls, we see a side effect of it via the Large Rifts. He mentions many factors like the death of hollows, Yamamoto, Squad zero and others which rocked the world to it's core. Urahara can't be taken correctly(also vague) then as he was wasn't sure, but Jugram implies what happened is the Plan executed by Yhwach and his sternritters. That means their goal is destabilization.

Edit: after rewatching the leaks am pretty sure it's destabilization, not like it changes much as yhwach's profile is still based on destabilization until Cour 4 expands on more it.

Not really, as the destruction is, as also stated during the episodes gonna be done via YH destroying them and then creating a new one. Yea, thats where the argument falls apart, what does yamamoto, squad zero etc. has to do with mantaining the cycle of souls? nothing if they die or are destroyed the cycle continues as normal, he is talking about how they have basically destroyed the order of the world with their invasion. Urahara is 1. the smartest in the verse 2. he did not vaguely say "this might not be the cycle" etc. he very clearly says it is not when someone mentions if this could be because of the cycle, and he very clearly says it is not because of the cycle being destabilized or anything to do with it. That was their first goal as stated very clearly in both the manga and anime, which is also stated and shown that it failed, which is why they had the invasion.
the destabilization Jugram is clearly talking about is the fact they have thrown into chaos the order of the world etc. which they accomplished

 

[ichimojii]

I don't know man this seems like a reach Jugram heavily implies it cause of the destabilization of souls, we see a side effect of it via the Large Rifts. He mentions many factors like the death of hollows, Yamamoto, Squad zero and others which rocked the world to it's core. Urahara can't be taken correctly(also vague) then as he was wasn't sure, but Jugram implies what happened is the Plan executed by Yhwach and his sternritters. That means their goal is destabilization.

Edit: after rewatching the leaks am pretty sure it's destabilization, not like it changes much as yhwach's profile is still based on destabilization until Cour 4 expands on more it.

Yea hollows did casue a few tears however that was fixed by Squad 12 erasing 28,000 souls,vizards fixing the distortions and Squad 12 adjusting the dangai. Yea the death of yamamoto and S0 did casue damage but we don't how much. S0 has always had strong influence due to their reiatsu even before the world became unstable. We do see yhwach shake the realms and casue tears in cour 3.

 

[Soulking22334]

does bleach have any real FTL feats?

 

[Soulking22334]

can someone calc this

 

[Overvoid69]

can someone calc this

What feat is here to calc

 

[Soulking22334]

What feat is here to calc

jumping from the shadow before the light strike

 

[Overvoid69]

jumping from the shadow before the light strike

Yeah before Lille fires his attack
There's no feat here

 

[Soulking22334]

Yeah before Lille fires his attack
There's no feat here

He used the light to clear the shadows from the area, but they reacted faster and jumped out of it.

 

[Soulking22334]

yhwach was going to destroy muken with ss is it 3-A or 2-C feat???

 

[Overvoid69]

He used the light to clear the shadows from the area, but they reacted faster and jumped out of it.

He didn't try to clear the shadow above his nose, because he didn't think they could leap out of shadows that small. There's no way of proving she moved faster then the light coming off the ball

 

[Soulking22334]

He didn't try to clear the shadow above his nose, because he didn't think they could leap out of shadows that small. There's no way of proving she moved faster then the light coming off the ball

But doesn't that mean they have to move through the shadows to the shadow on his nose faster than it takes to erase the shadows on the ground?
plus what about this

 

[Overvoid69]

But doesn't that mean they have to move through the shadows to the shadow on his nose faster than it takes to erase the shadows on the ground?

Doesn't Nanao/ Shunsui just choose where to pop out, as opposed to moving that same distance in the shadow and outside of the shadows? If u can prove the latter it would be a SoL feat

plus what about this

what about it

 

[Soulking22334]

Doesn't Nanao/ Shunsui just choose where to pop out, as opposed to moving that same distance in the shadow and outside of the shadows? If u can prove the latter it would be a SoL feat

They enter a pocket dimension of shadows, and each shadow is a visible portal (open at the top of the pocket dimension). Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that they move within the pocket dimension and jump through the portals (the shadows in the real world).

what about it

dodging lilles rain of light

 

[ShadoW200720]

can someone tell me where exactly the anime debunks the idea of Yhwach trying to destroy the realms by destabilizing the soul cycle?

Here, Urahara confirms it

 

[ShadoW200720]

Even if Urahara were interpreted as a 4-A, Askin wouldn't be. Askin fought a Urahara weakened by poison. Besides that, he has counter-feats like taking damage from Grimmjow. According to Part 4 spoilers, Askin was pierced by Grimmjow despite using Blut Venn.

I might be wrong but from what i watched, i personally think askin used blut after he got his heart crushed to stop himself from bleeding out to death instantly, not saying he scales to Urahara tho

Edit: After rewatching I saw that his Blut was indeed active, my bad

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I might be wrong but from what i watched, i personally think askin used blut after he got his heart crushed to stop himself from bleeding out to death instantly, not saying he scales to Urahara tho

Edit: After rewatching I saw that his Blut was indeed active, my bad

It's okay, you don't need to apologize. I also wrote that without watching it. When I watched the video linked above this morning, it seemed to me the way you thought for a moment.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

It's okay, you don't need to apologize. I also wrote that without watching it. When I watched the video linked above this morning, it seemed to me the way you thought for a moment.

Would this upscale the Espada then?

 

[PizzaDante67]

Here, Urahara confirms it

thanks

 

[Mommyleona]

He used the light to clear the shadows from the area, but they reacted faster and jumped out of it.

No they didnt?? A shadow formed from his beak on his face

But doesn't that mean they have to move through the shadows to the shadow on his nose faster than it takes to erase the shadows on the ground?
plus what about this

ftl falling speed

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Would this upscale the Espada then?

Actually, this wiki unnecessarily underestimates the Espadas. If you ask me, some Espadas are strong enough to fight Elite Quincy.

Since it's stated that Shunsui's power hasn't increased, there's not much difference between his Starrk fighting form and his form that overpowered Post-Aushwalen Eye Patch Lille Barro.

Starrk => FKT Shikai Shunsui => TYBW Shikai Shunsui > Post-Aushwalen Eye Patch Lille Barro > Pre-Aushwalen Eye Patch Lille Barro > Bambietta, Liltotto, Bazz B, Cang Du, etc. low-level sternrriter.

I don't think Toshiro surpassed Halibel except in his Adult form in TYBW. Maybe Gerard's fight kid form surpassed him, but it could be argued that he was an outlier. In the novel, we learn that Base Halibel > Base Liltotto. The Base Liltotto here is stronger than the Base form in TYBW because he ate PePe. Even before eating PePe, he had some very good feats. Volstandig Bazz B was subjected to Bazz B's attack while he was without off-guard and Blut Venn, and this attack was so insignificant to him that he didn't even care about it, let alone take him out of the fight. Although Bazz B didn't intend to kill him, he wanted to take him out of the fight. Otherwise, they would also share the reward of defeating Ichigo. Bazz B, who one-shot Toshiro, wasn't in his Volstandig form. Yes, he used his two-finger technique, but even one finger technique was enough to overcome Toshiro's durability. Bankai Toshiro is only 5x stronger than his Shikai form. This still won't be enough to overcome Base Halibel. Furthermore, Toshiro defeated Base Cang Du, not Volstandig Cang Du. If Base Bazz B > Base Cang Du, I would assume this also applies to their Volstandig forms.

Base Halibel Su technique AP>Base Liltotto with blut venn Durability=5x Base Liltotto with blut venn Durability>Base Liltotto's durability before eating Pepe>Volstandig Bazz B with 1 Burning Finger AP>Base Bazz B with 1 Burning Finger AP>TYBW Kid Shikai Toshiro durability.

I also disagree with Toshiro scaling Mayuri. Mayuri didn't expect this attack because she was relying on her medicine. Also, considering Toshiro's anti-feats, scaling a character who has a feat against Pre-Aushwalen Askin level statement and Post-Aushwalen Pre-Evolve Pernida would be inconsistent. In that case, you would also need to scale Cangu Du against Post-Aushwalen Pernida.

Grimmjow says, "If I had used 'Resurrection,' I could have killed him (Hikone)." Base Liltotto's arrows couldn't damage Base Hikone with Off-guard Blut Venn. Considering Grimmjow also damaged Blut Venn Askin, he's strong enough to damage almost all non-Elite characters as an AP. I think he could take down everyone except Gremmy, Royd, and Leyod. Even Shinji considered using Hollow Mask when he felt Base Grimmjow's power. He didn't, but that means he wasn't entirely sure he could beat him even in his current Shikai form. I think Shinji was at the same power level throughout all seasons, but even if he increased his power, we should all agree that it wouldn't be enough to defeat the entire Espada.

Nel was relatively strong compared to Halibel in CFYOW. You could also argue that she was stronger than the Quincy girls other than Bambietta.

Luppi was also strong enough to fight Grimmjow. It's important not to overlook the fact that this form is stronger than his zombie form in TYBW.

There are statements and feats suggesting that Baraggan is still stronger than Grimmjow. Grimmjow and Luppi hit Sealed Ikomikidomoe with their strongest attacks, and Ikomikidomoe didn't take much damage. They also thought Baraggan was stronger than those two.

Baraggan ~~1000 Years Ago Ikomikidomoe > Sealed Ikomikidomoe > Desgarron + GRC =>> 10X Grimmjow and Luppi Base Cero AP > Grimmjow and Luppi raw AP > Askin'in Blut Venn Durability

Ulquiorra and Vasto Lord Ichigo were a 100% threat to Cien. We discussed this in previous pages. Even if you don't take Dangai Ichigo as Vasto Lord Ichigo like me, you can at least argue that Vasto Lord Ichigo would destroy Askin and Lille Barro. There's a statement that even Zaraki, who is slightly superior in SAFWY Eye Patch with 60% Cien, is so superior that he's unaffected by Starrk's wolves and Baraggan's respira. 100% Cien specifically targeted Las Noches to prevent the copying of Vasto Lord Ichigo and SE Ulquiorra's powers. When Rooka copied Mugetsu, he panicked, asking if she had copied something stronger than Ulquiorra and Ichigo.

Zommari and those weaker than him are also victims of Base Liltotto. And yes, I'm not scaling Byakuya to Yammy because he has a lot of anti-feat that contradict that idea. Once you've taken down Byakuya, there's no reason to pick overly powerful opponents like As Nodt.

 

[ShadoW200720]

thanks

No problem, anytime

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Tho, it has to be taken into account that the Hollows should have an advantage over quincies due to their biology imo

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Tho, it has to be taken into account that the Hollows should have an advantage over quincies due to their biology imo

I don't think that's a major factor. Even Liltotto ate two Arrancar's Zanpakuto and a few Cero. Basically, the character ate things containing Hollow power, and the poison hardly affected him negatively. And Liltotto isn't an Echt Quincy like Uryu. Kubo only stated that Echt Quincy aren't affected by Hollow's Reiatsu poison. Also, Askin's body was pierced first, so I don't think that would refute it. Maybe if Grimmjow had pierced him after he was poisoned.

 

[DeathberrySama]

does bleach have any real FTL feats?

Yeah, if you calculate the Reiōkyu distance properly. Senjumaru's reiatsu blatantly travelled at MFTL+ speeds too, the debate would be whether or not that is scalable to anyone.

 

[PizzaDante67]

Yeah, if you calculate the Reiōkyu distance properly. Senjumaru's reiatsu blatantly travelled at MFTL+ speeds too, the debate would be whether or not that is scalable to anyone.

Her reiatsu travelled across the soul society and human world anyway. It‘s Massively FTL+ regardless of what the reiokyu distance is. But ur right about it even scaling to anyone.

 

[Soulking22334]

Yeah, if you calculate the Reiōkyu distance properly.

130.78million kilometers via 1000ri(ichigo should scale above ichibe) x 3300(9h and 15 minute)

if mimihagi crossed this distance in 1 sec = 436c thats make yhwach and mimihagi mftl but that will make chanscaling impossible

 

[ShadoW200720]

130.78million kilometers via 1000ri(ichigo should scale above ichibe) x 3300(9h and 15 minute)

How many km is one ri?

if mimihagi crossed this distance in 1 sec = 436c thats make yhwach and mimihagi mftl but that will make chanscaling impassable

Damn

 

[Soulking22334]

How many km is one ri?

i ri = 3927m

 

[ShadoW200720]

i ri = 3927m

So that's 3927 km, how do you now get this

130.78million kilometers via 1000ri

Because that's where you lost me

 

[Soulking22334]

So that's 3927 km, how do you now get this

x 3300 sec( ichigo's travel time frame)

 

[Soulking22334]

No they didnt?? A shadow formed from his beak on his face

They need to enter the portals in the pocket dimension which are the shadows in the real world in order to jump between the shadows, so they have to move that fast.

ftl falling speed

she didn't dodge??

 

[Soulking22334]

let us make half tybw characters low complex

 

[Infinite9Luck]

Askin got backstabbed by Grimmjow, backstab or surprise attacks are actually quite powerful in Bleach, it is true we see the Blut but it is after the attack already got landed, but if Askin didn't know about Grimmjow how could he activate Blut before Grimmjow surprise attack him?

We have no proof the Blut was activated before Grimmjow landed the attack (Askin wouldn't have been surprised to begin with)

I don't see how it is different from Sasakibe backstabbing Yhwach who fought Yamamoto.

let us make half tybw characters low complex

Nothing of this is low complex honestly

 

[Mommyleona]

They need to enter the portals in the pocket dimension

they dont, where is this coming from

in order to jump between the shadows, so they have to move that fast.

No she wouldnt, she just came out of the shadow that was left, nothing else lol