BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Soulking22334]

By being bigger but not to beyond infinite proportions? Like you don’t need to be 5D to host a 4D, you can have multiple 4D structure within a single larger 4D structure

muken exist inside graganta

 

[Soulking22334]

Not just desert but Momoshiki dimension as well

Are all these dimensions parallel to earth?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

muken exist inside graganta

Complete disregard my paper example which just clarifies what being inside =\= being higher dimensional unless stated otherwise notion.

In order for you to assume it’s a higher spatial/temporal axis you need to have a statement saying so.

Are all these dimensions parallel to earth?

The universe yes. Anime and novel says so

 

[Soulking22334]

The universe yes. Anime and novel says so

what about manga ??

Complete disregard my paper example which just clarifies what being inside =\= being higher dimensional unless stated otherwise notion.

your example is flawed, and applying it to this situation is impossible (in my opinion)
try to expand the characters to infinity on the page without blending or mixing them together
like a three-dimensional book that contains two-dimensional pages without any blending

 

[GinDan]

Even in Bankai Zaraki can't destroy à city

 

[Soulking22334]

Even in Bankai Zaraki can't destroy à city

but per tybw zarak can destroy dangai???

 

[ShadoW200720]

Yes and novel

Proof?

Not just desert but Momoshiki dimension as well

They were called parallel dimensions?, hmm

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

what about manga ??

Anime is just as canon as the manga we don’t have the one is the more canon than the other problem

your example is flawed, and applying it to this situation is impossible (in my opinion)
try to expand the characters to infinity on the page without blending or mixing them together

The analogy isn’t claiming that a finite sheet can hold infinitely many finite drawings. It’s illustrating that objects can have the same dimensionality as the space containing them. Whether there are finitely many or infinitely many of them is a separate issue.

In mathematics, a 4D space can contain infinitely many distinct 4D regions without requiring a fifth dimension. For example, the real number line (1D) contains infinitely many disjoint intervals, each of which is also 1D. Likewise, a 2D plane contains infinitely many disjoint 2D open sets, and the same principle extends to 4D.

Infinity does not automatically imply a higher dimension. An infinite 1D line is still 1D, and an infinite 4D manifold is still 4D. The question is whether an additional independent coordinate is needed to describe the arrangement. If every region can be specified using the same four coordinates, then the ambient space remains 4D.

also a 5D structure is beyond infinitely larger then a 4D structure and my example assumes a finite amount of 2D structures with in a larger finite structure. If you extend to infinity then you can also have larger infinitely extending surface hosting that infinite

like a three-dimensional book that contains two-dimensional pages without any blending

The “3D book containing 2D pages” analogy works because the pages are separated along a third spatial dimension. That demonstrates an example where the container has a higher dimension than the objects it contains.

But that doesn’t establish a general rule that a container must always have a higher dimension than its contents. There are many mathematical examples where spaces of the same dimension contain multiple distinct spaces or regions of that same dimension.

Likewise, the objection about “expanding the characters to infinity” concerns how much room there is, not how many dimensions there are. Dimension is determined by the number of independent coordinates needed to describe points in the space, not by whether the space contains finitely or infinitely many regions.

To prove a 5D container, you’d need evidence that the 4D spaces are separated by an additional independent axis—just as the pages in a book are separated by the third dimension. Simply containing multiple (or even infinitely many) 4D spaces doesn’t demonstrate that. It only demonstrates multiplicity, not an extra dimension.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Proof?

They were called parallel dimensions?, hmm

Uhhhh you can just search it up, I am not really arguing about l1c kaguya here. I am just making a point that even if you take that different showing of time means an extra dimension then it’s wrong.

Hence my kaguya example (which was bait) to make him understand that it doesn’t work like, because he would naturally see Naruto stuff under a more skeptical light then bleach. Which he did hence me saying this

Statement still required, same way you are asking me for them. You see what I am getting at right?

In which he pivoted to maths

 

[Soulking22334]

Anime is just as canon as the manga we don’t have the one is the more canon than the other problem

i though it was manga canon > anime canon

they dismissed my kirin ( the last fight ) via it being " only anime thing"

The “3D book containing 2D pages” analogy works because the pages are separated along a third spatial dimension. That demonstrates an example where the container has a higher dimension than the objects it contains.

But that doesn’t establish a general rule that a container must always have a higher dimension than its contents. There are many mathematical examples where spaces of the same dimension contain multiple distinct spaces or regions of that same dimension.

Likewise, the objection about “expanding the characters to infinity” concerns how much room there is, not how many dimensions there are. Dimension is determined by the number of independent coordinates needed to describe points in the space, not by whether the space contains finitely or infinitely many regions.

To prove a 5D container, you’d need evidence that the 4D spaces are separated by an additional independent axis—just as the pages in a book are separated by the third dimension. Simply containing multiple (or even infinitely many) 4D spaces doesn’t demonstrate that. It only demonstrates multiplicity, not an extra dimension.

TWOTL and SS are essentially one, and if the boundaries between them were to disappear, they would immediately merge. do you understand what that means?

in other words, they share the same existential coordinates, so keeping them separate requires the existence of an additional, higher dimension.

geometric separation requires an additional dimension.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

i though it was manga canon > anime canon

they dismissed my kirin ( the last fight ) via it being " only anime thing"

That’s cuz Naruto anime it not as canon as the Naruto manga. Which is not the same for boruto

TWOTL and SS are essentially one, and if the boundaries between them were to disappear, they would immediately merge. Do you understand what that means?

in other words, they share the same existential coordinates, so keeping them separate requires the existence of an additional, higher dimension.

geometric separation requires an additional dimension.

That conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow. Saying that TWOTL and Soul Society would merge if their boundary disappeared only establishes that the boundary is what keeps them distinct. It does not identify the nature of that boundary

Geometric separation only requires an additional dimension if the two spaces are embedded within the same ambient space and occupy different positions along an extra axis. That’s exactly what the VSBW guideline describes: universes existing at different positions along an additional dimensional axis.

Bleach never explicitly states that the Human World and Soul Society occupy different positions along a fifth spatial dimension. Instead, the series consistently describes them as separate realms connected through intermediary spaces like the Dangai and Garganta. The fact that removing the boundary causes them to merge is equally consistent with the boundary being a metaphysical or topological separator rather than a geometric higher-dimensional one.

In other words, “they merge if the boundary is removed” proves that the boundary preserves their distinction. It doesn’t prove that the boundary is a higher-dimensional axis. That additional premise still requires evidence.

Likewise, saying they “share the same existential coordinates” is an assertion, not something established by the manga. If they truly shared the same coordinates in the geometric sense, that itself would need to be demonstrated from the source material.

Another logical issue is that the argument assumes that because geometric separation can require an extra dimension, all separation must be geometric. That’s a non sequitur. Fiction commonly separates universes through barriers, pocket dimensions, disconnected topology, or metaphysical laws without implying a higher-dimensional embedding. To conclude a 5D separator, you must first prove the separation is specifically geometric along an additional axis, not merely that a boundary exists.

 

[Torsin]

I mean yea they are all encompassed by the main universe that is encompassed by the limbo dimension that is encompassed by a higher plane of existence where Shibai resides in

So yes they are dimension encompassed by dimensions

I dont recall the Limbo dimension having a stated size or that it has a separate timeline or that it encompasses the entire naruto universe. Where was this stated?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

I dont recall the Limbo dimension having a stated size or that it has a separate timeline or that it encompasses the entire naruto universe. Where was this stated?

Once again profile exist

 

[Torsin]

Once again profile exist

Nothing of that sort is mentioned on Madara's profile from what I can see or is there a separate cosmology blog Im missing?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Nothing of that sort is mentioned on Madara's profile from what I can see or is there a separate cosmology blog Im missing?

welp, the thread hasn’t been accepted rn then. As for the cosmology blog, we don’t have any

 

[Soulking22334]

The “3D book containing 2D pages” analogy works because the pages are separated along a third spatial dimension. That demonstrates an example where the container has a higher dimension than the objects it contains.

But that doesn’t establish a general rule that a container must always have a higher dimension than its contents. There are many mathematical examples where spaces of the same dimension contain multiple distinct spaces or regions of that same dimension.

Likewise, the objection about “expanding the characters to infinity” concerns how much room there is, not how many dimensions there are. Dimension is determined by the number of independent coordinates needed to describe points in the space, not by whether the space contains finitely or infinitely many regions.

To prove a 5D container, you’d need evidence that the 4D spaces are separated by an additional independent axis—just as the pages in a book are separated by the third dimension. Simply containing multiple (or even infinitely many) 4D spaces doesn’t demonstrate that. It only demonstrates multiplicity, not an extra dimension.

That conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow. Saying that TWOTL and Soul Society would merge if their boundary disappeared only establishes that the boundary is what keeps them distinct. It does not identify the nature of that boundary

Geometric separation only requires an additional dimension if the two spaces are embedded within the same ambient space and occupy different positions along an extra axis. That’s exactly what the VSBW guideline describes: universes existing at different positions along an additional dimensional axis.

Bleach never explicitly states that the Human World and Soul Society occupy different positions along a fifth spatial dimension. Instead, the series consistently describes them as separate realms connected through intermediary spaces like the Dangai and Garganta. The fact that removing the boundary causes them to merge is equally consistent with the boundary being a metaphysical or topological separator rather than a geometric higher-dimensional one.

In other words, “they merge if the boundary is removed” proves that the boundary preserves their distinction. It doesn’t prove that the boundary is a higher-dimensional axis. That additional premise still requires evidence.

Likewise, saying they “share the same existential coordinates” is an assertion, not something established by the manga. If they truly shared the same coordinates in the geometric sense, that itself would need to be demonstrated from the source material.

Another logical issue is that the argument assumes that because geometric separation can require an extra dimension, all separation must be geometric. That’s a non sequitur. Fiction commonly separates universes through barriers, pocket dimensions, disconnected topology, or metaphysical laws without implying a higher-dimensional embedding. To conclude a 5D separator, you must first prove the separation is specifically geometric along an additional axis, not merely that a boundary exists.

bad faith no jutsu : ai debate mod , the strongest naruto fans jutsu

ai detected opinion rejected< next time be smart and have some courage

 

[Soulking22334]

lol

 

[Soulking22334]

And I, who thought he had a familiar writing style,



thought he was good at debating, but it turned out he was bad at hiding his bad habits.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

bad faith no jutsu : ai debate mod , the strongest naruto fans jutsu

ai detected opinion rejected< next time be smart and have some courage

Bro was losing so bad that he had to check if my arguments are ai here’s other websites that proof it’s not ai

Since this says it isn’t ai, I should be good right? It’s like Ai isn’t notorious for false flagging stuff

 

[Soulking22334]

Bro was losing so bad that he had to check if my arguments are ai here’s other websites that proof it’s not ai

i used three high tier ai detectors , they all say that it is ai , try humalingo.com

I don't want to debate someone who is using bad faith and isn't putting any effort into the discussion.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

i used three high tier ai detectors , they all say that it is ai , try humalingo.com

I don't want to debate someone who is using bad faith and isn't putting any effort into the discussion.

Here’s two more examples, like just engage instead of running away

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

If you can't defend your points without resorting to accusations, then you should just give up.

Ai is notorious for false flagging stuff. If you ever took a stroll through any discussion forums you would know how much trouble students go through just to proof their stuff ain’t Ai cuz some random website said so

 

[FARLANDER3305]

Guys calm down

 

[Soulking22334]

Here’s two more examples, like just engage instead of running away

If you can't defend your points without resorting to accusations, then you should just give up.

you use a interesting tools to prove your innocence

I will respond to your points if your innocence is proven , but now I will report you.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Use interesting tools to prove your innocence

I will respond to your points if your innocence is proven , but now I will report you.

Crazy, showed three different ai detectors saying no and his gonna report me for it. Can’t make this up lol

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Ah, yes. the "If you can't beat em at a debate, accuse them of using AI" strat. Classic Bleach fan behavior.

 

[DavidTPPM]

That epic gamer moment when I've been talking to Alt basically daily for like a year+ straight now and that's just exactly how he talks when he's debating.

If you actually check the reasoning the AI gives its mostly shit like "highly structured reasoning", "very even sentence quality" and "balanced, measured language". Exactly what you'd expect from a debate on ******* dimensionality and cosmology

 

[FARLANDER3305]

Ah, yes. the "If you can't beat em at a debate, accuse them of using AI" strat. Classic Bleach fan behavior.

No need to get heated bro
Can we please stop

 

[Soulking22334]

Ah, yes. the "If you can't beat em at a debate, accuse them of using AI" strat. Classic Bleach fan behavior.

That epic gamer moment when I've been talking to Alt basically daily for like a year+ straight now and that's just exactly how he talks when he's debating.

If you actually check the reasoning the AI gives its mostly shit like "highly structured reasoning", "very even sentence quality" and "balanced, measured language". Exactly what you'd expect from a debate on ******* dimensionality and cosmology

No need to get heated bro
Can we please stop

I have no problem continuing the discussion if it turns out he's innocent. i just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time, and that's my right.

 

[DavidTPPM]

"innocent"

On vs wiki when you use formal language in a debate they say you used AI and treat you like a criminal

 

[Soulking22334]

On vs wiki when you use formal language in a debate they say you used AI and treat you like a criminal

Do you want me to continue this debate when I'm not even sure if I'm wasting my time or not?

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

That epic gamer moment when I've been talking to Alt basically daily for like a year+ straight now and that's just exactly how he talks when he's debating.

If you actually check the reasoning the AI gives its mostly shit like "highly structured reasoning", "very even sentence quality" and "balanced, measured language". Exactly what you'd expect from a debate on ******* dimensionality and cosmology

Should’ve talked like I was 10 or smth about dimensionality and number theory of all things

Do you want me to continue this debate when I'm not even sure if I'm wasting my time or not?

How are you wasting your time? Genuinely. If your arguments are sound and you actually understand what's being discussed, that should be more than enough to disprove me—even if I were using AI.

You are wasting your time by doing all this

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Do you want me to continue this debate when I'm not even sure if I'm wasting my time or not?

Brudda, just admit it. He mogged you in this discussion and you want nothing to do with it any longer so you create some nonsense excuse to not continue.

 

[Soulking22334]

How are you wasting your time? Genuinely. If your arguments are sound and you actually understand what's being discussed, that should be more than enough to disprove me—even if I were using AI.

I was writing my reply and just wanted to verify the matter, and what happened happened. the important thing is that we'll find out the answer.

and I don't intend to back out of the debate. as soon as I get my answer, i will continue it.

 

[Soulking22334]

Brudda, just admit it. He mogged you in this discussion and you want nothing to do with it any longer so you create some nonsense excuse to not continue.

Yeah, yeah, it seems like one of us knows the unknown.

 

[Mommyleona]

Lille is falling fast enough to break the serieite barrier. Which requires speeds way faster then free fall. Ichigo and comp needed to blast themselves through a canon and use their reiatsu to break it

That's not Lille dying

No, they need to move faster than light, which will erase the shadows on the ground.

No they do not lol, they are in the shadow world, they remain in the shadows even if he wipes the shadow on the ground, since they are in Lille's own shadow, which just moved from the ground to his face
There's no movement to calc either

 

[Soulking22334]

No they do not lol, they are in the shadow world, they remain in the shadows even if he wipes the shadow on the ground, since they are in Lille's own shadow, which just moved from the ground to his face

scan?

 

[Mommyleona]

scan?

wdym scan, that's just what happens, they dont need to move themselves

 

[Soulking22334]

That conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow. Saying that TWOTL and Soul Society would merge if their boundary disappeared only establishes that the boundary is what keeps them distinct. It does not identify the nature of that boundary

Geometric separation only requires an additional dimension if the two spaces are embedded within the same ambient space and occupy different positions along an extra axis. That’s exactly what the VSBW guideline describes: universes existing at different positions along an additional dimensional axis.

Bleach never explicitly states that the Human World and Soul Society occupy different positions along a fifth spatial dimension. Instead, the series consistently describes them as separate realms connected through intermediary spaces like the Dangai and Garganta. The fact that removing the boundary causes them to merge is equally consistent with the boundary being a metaphysical or topological separator rather than a geometric higher-dimensional one.

In other words, “they merge if the boundary is removed” proves that the boundary preserves their distinction. It doesn’t prove that the boundary is a higher-dimensional axis. That additional premise still requires evidence.

Likewise, saying they “share the same existential coordinates” is an assertion, not something established by the manga. If they truly shared the same coordinates in the geometric sense, that itself would need to be demonstrated from the source material.

Another logical issue is that the argument assumes that because geometric separation can require an extra dimension, all separation must be geometric. That’s a non sequitur. Fiction commonly separates universes through barriers, pocket dimensions, disconnected topology, or metaphysical laws without implying a higher-dimensional embedding. To conclude a 5D separator, you must first prove the separation is specifically geometric along an additional axis, not merely that a boundary exists.

From what I understand, you’re saying that you want evidence from the story to prove the existence of higher dimensions,
and that since my points are missing scans from the story, they can be interpreted differently , so I need conclusive evidence, right?

So, either i have to provide evidence to support these points, or I have to present an indisputable point?

 

[Soulking22334]

wdym scan, that's just what happens, they dont need to move themselves

No, they have to move themselves, because the portal is located at the top of the pocket dimension.