Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[Kellex]

Spoiler: CHAPTER 5 NEW DIALOGUE

 

[RinneItachi]

Spoiler: CHAPTER 5 NEW DIALOGUE

You JUST beat me to it...

 

[RinneItachi]

Spoiler: Ch. 5 New Dialogue

Hm now I'm wondering if Friend and Forgotten Man will tie into each other.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

A hall of mirrors is the definitive example of something which only seems infinite due to limited human perception (each mirror absorbs a portion of the light, preventing them from actually reflecting infinitely many times).

For the Forgotten Man specifically, that limitation could make for a decent allegory, since artifacts in mirrors accumulate and can distort some of the reflections (most commonly by darkening or discolouring them). Copies are monochrome type shit.

Yeah, I was about to say that seems like really poor evidence for it being infinite.

Oh yeah I agree, I don’t think that’s sufficient enough evidence for infinite size at all. I was just explaining where the idea came from, and also that (right now at least) it doesn’t make a difference no matter what it means.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Spoiler: CHAPTER 5 NEW DIALOGUE

I wonder if Toby intentionally left this out at first so that the fanbase would appreciate the chapter for what it is instead of focusing on all the lore hints, or if he decided to add this in after seeing the FRIEND fraud posts and people disliking Pink for her lack of lore relevance.

 

[Qurbonboev]

No wonder Spamton is terrified of cats, and wears armor specifically against them:

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Soo the egg man is hiding from friend and eram ? If soo it was smart for them to live in those pocket dimensions.

 

[Edutyn]

We finally caught up on everything.

Thoughts on the chapter?

Would someone mind summarizing what's happened to the verse?

4-C
Debating if the sun is real or not (i think it would be discussed on a crt?), how does Flowery fake stats works, some debate if Flowery should have Law Hax & Resistance to Law, discusing some scaling of the verse, knight slander, various interpretations of Flower Man lyrics, theories, Flowery would likely survive, top 10 strongest of the verse... and i think thats all (unless i forgot something)

 

[Latin_Rhythms]

in light of recent news

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

in light of recent news

Brutal...

 

[Ghengiroo115]

How Kris is gonna be fighting off the pack of FRIENDlings in Chapter 7:

 

[Randomuser3412]

How Kris is gonna be fighting off the pack of FRIENDlings in Chapter 7:

Again, guys, Kris is literally the worst vessel ever. This stupid pixel version did better than that!

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Again, guys, Kris is literally the worst vessel ever. This stupid pixel version did better than that.

Damn yeah i agree

 

[FinePoint]

Could the SOUL possess Goku?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Could the SOUL possess Goku?

Nah Goku is full of his own soul

 

[Edutyn]

Could the SOUL possess Goku?

Technically and theoretically, maybe? Practically, no. Would it be fun? Of course

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Papyrus is the Knight confirmed?!

 

[Da3ggman]

 

[AyOgUyS]

Could the SOUL possess Goku?

No, he's Gokuversal.

 

[LittleGuy99]

 

[Edutyn]

In Chapter 3, during the Mantle game, we come to an area full of white cats and two singing pink cats. Once we kill the pink cats, the white cats attack us.

Could thos mean that in chapter 6 FRIENDs will jump us?

 

[Latin_Rhythms]

In Chapter 3, during the Mantle game, we come to an area full of white cats and two singing pink cats. Once we kill the pink cats, the white cats attack us.

Could thos mean that in chapter 6 FRIENDs will jump us?

I think so, especially since about the dialogue about it being in multitudes. and then with every other actual antagonist appearance there's multiple. The Eram fight and the Mike mini games

 

[Latin_Rhythms]

the little fox that's the sun looking as hard as it can for whenever Kris hits omega flowery so it knows to change the suns color

 

[Ethnikistis]

Has anyone here made sense of Flowerys fake stat(Powerscaling wise)
Do they rank him higher???
Are they actually stat amplification or just imaginary bs?

 

[Axorandom0]

Has anyone here made sense of Flowerys fake stat(Powerscaling wise)
Do they rank him higher???
Are they actually stat amplification or just imaginary bs?

They’re currently listed on his profile as “far higher with subjective reality” and it’s used to make Flowery scale to the Knight before they destroyed his fake stats and took 0 damage from his real ones

 

[Ethnikistis]

They’re currently listed on his profile as “far higher with subjective reality” and it’s used to make Flowery scale to the Knight before they destroyed his fake stats and took 0 damage from his real ones

I mean they actually haven't shown to be able to do anything,they didn't do shit against the lancer fan club,neither against the knight.His real stats tho seem to still be higher than all of the lancer fan club since he beat kris on his own.

The fake stats make me wonder how something like Gerson V Flowey would go like.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

I mean they actually haven't shown to be able to do anything,they didn't do shit against the lancer fan club

It's heavily implied throughout the fight that Flowery is holding back, you can literally see it in-game. For starters, he barely takes advantage of his ability to break the game's mechanics during the fight, despite doing so repeatedly outside of combat. The only notable exception is when he's teaching Kris how to use the Orange Soul. If we intentionally ignore that tutorial, he'll even remark that Ralsei should be the one teaching us how to fight instead.

Secondly, he clearly cares about the Fun Gang. This is evident even before the battle begins, when he takes care of them after they're on the verge of death by placing them in comfortable beds to rest. During the fight itself, we also can't truly die. Instead, Flowery simply ends the battle, returns us to the room, and even lets Green restore all of our consumed items. On top of that, every time we lose, we receive a larger TP boost while Flowery's attacks deal progressively less damage. All of this strongly suggests that he's deliberately pulling his punches.

Lastly, my memory is a bit foggy on this point, but after the Omega Flowery sequence, he mentions that he has to defeat them “the proper way”. If that's the case, then it further supports the idea that he wasn't using his fake stats against the Fun Gang.

 

[Ethnikistis]

It's heavily implied throughout the fight that Flowery is holding back, you can literally see it in-game. For starters, he barely takes advantage of his ability to break the game's mechanics during the fight, despite doing so repeatedly outside of combat. The only notable exception is when he's teaching Kris how to use the Orange Soul. If we intentionally ignore that tutorial, he'll even remark that Ralsei should be the one teaching us how to fight instead.

Secondly, he clearly cares about the Fun Gang. This is evident even before the battle begins, when he takes care of them after they're on the verge of death by placing them in comfortable beds to rest. During the fight itself, we also can't truly die. Instead, Flowery simply ends the battle, returns us to the room, and even lets Green restore all of our consumed items. On top of that, every time we lose, we receive a larger TP boost while Flowery's attacks deal progressively less damage. All of this strongly suggests that he's deliberately pulling his punches.

Lastly, my memory is a bit foggy on this point, but after the Omega Flowery sequence, he mentions that he has to defeat them “the proper way”. If that's the case, then it further supports the idea that he wasn't using his fake stats against the Fun Gang.

So who actually can ignore or nullify his fake stats?Also have we considered that Ralsei could potentially be above Flowery due to what he said?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So who actually can ignore or nullify his fake stats?

Probably just the Knight, at least rn

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

So who actually can ignore or nullify his fake stats?

If we're talking about VS matches, then someone with sufficiently higher willpower, but still, it's only if that willpower is actually comparable to what the Knight demonstrated (Supernatural Willpower isn't exactly rare in Deltarune, and the Knight's case is significant because they had already interacted with the bullet box, which is itself part of the game's “rules”), so that line of reasoning is mostly unhelpful on its own, since whether someone can resist/ignore/nullify it is, at the end of the day, a case-by-case matter.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

If we're talking about VS matches, then someone with sufficiently higher willpower

Where does the willpower thing come from again? Like, Flowery can cheese his way to max stats because the Dark World basically functions like a lucid dream for him. It's way more tied to him understanding how loosey-goosey the Dark World's rules are than a willpower thing.

 

[Ethnikistis]

If we're talking about VS matches, then someone with sufficiently higher willpower, but still, it's only if that willpower is actually comparable to what the Knight demonstrated (Supernatural Willpower isn't exactly rare in Deltarune, and the Knight's case is significant because they had already interacted with the bullet box, which is itself part of the game's “rules”), so that line of reasoning is mostly unhelpful on its own, since whether someone can resist/ignore/nullify it is, at the end of the day, a case-by-case matter.

Most probable scenario is that characters like gerson(High willpower,has messed with game mechanics) or ralsei(implied to have also falsified his stats or at least have the ability to do so) can ignore them(aside from the obvious scenario which is the knight)

 

[Ethnikistis]

Where does the willpower thing come from again? Like, Flowery can cheese his way to max stats because the Dark World basically functions like a lucid dream for him. It's way more tied to him understanding how loosey-goosey the Dark World's rules are than a willpower thing.

Something something dreams,a flowers dream something something

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Something something dreams,a flowers dream something something

It's clearly not tied to that considering that's his go-to after the Knight nulls his fake stats.

 

[Ethnikistis]

It's clearly not tied to that considering that's his go-to after the Knight nulls his fake stats.

His go to is just using his actual stats(which are still considerably high) and this also aligns with the fact that the knight prob knows about the game mechanics as they seemingly cut the box in half and diagonally.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

aligns with the fact that the knight prob knows about the game mechanics as they seemingly cut the box in half and diagonally.

Too many characters in DR can mess with the battle box for me put it anywhere near Ralsei's level of understanding when it comes to Dark Worlds, but yeah, I do think it's just a knowledge thing rather than a willpower thing.

The way I see it, what happened is akin to those make-belief duels, where Kid A (Flowery) goes "I have a super invincible barrier that reflects all attacks and can't be nullified!" only for Kid B (The Knight) to respond by punching them in the face. Like the Knight simply doesn't have to follow the imaginary rules set by Dark Worlds.

 

[Ethnikistis]

Too many characters in DR can mess with the battle box for me put it anywhere near Ralsei's level of understanding when it comes to Dark Worlds, but yeah, I do think it's just a knowledge thing rather than a willpower thing.

The way I see it, what happened is akin to those make-belief duels, where Kid A (Flowery) goes "I have a super invincible barrier that reflects all attacks and can't be nullified!" only for Kid B (The Knight) to respond by punching them in the face. Like the Knight simply doesn't have to follow the imaginary rules set by Dark Worlds.

**** me man, Toby leaves too much stuff up to theory and bs.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Where does the willpower thing come from again? Like, Flowery can cheese his way to max stats because the Dark World basically functions like a lucid dream for him. It's way more tied to him understanding how loosey-goosey the Dark World's rules are than a willpower thing.

I honestly don't even know, I personally dislike the idea, but hey, it's in the profile and people seem to go along with it so I guess we just have to suck it up until someone do something about it.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

I honestly don't even know, I personally dislike the idea, but hey, it's in the profile and people seem to go along with it so I guess we just have to suck it up until someone do something about it.

That's what happens when someone decides to publish a profile in such subpar conditions without engaging with the discussion with all the supporters

 

[FinePoint]

I honestly don't even know, I personally dislike the idea, but hey, it's in the profile and people seem to go along with it so I guess we just have to suck it up until someone do something about it.

For the record, I also think the willpower thing is pretty unsupported.

It seemed more like the Knight was just also manipulating the world by chopping off the bottom of the numbers.