Shadow Saint Vs Sword Saint

[S33rz]

Sunless

Vs

Reinhard

Saint/Transcendent Sunless key
Vs
Reinhard with Dragon sword

• Speed is equalized
• In-character
• Starting distance of 400 meters.
• Sunny can use his shadows.
• SBA

Sunless:
Reinhard:
Incon:

 

[Seraphor12]

Btw that key is transcendent not saint

 

[S33rz]

Btw that key is transcendent not saint

I'll add that then in case it get's confusing.

 

[Seraphor12]

I think Reinhard would win because sunless don't have any resistance to conceptual manipulation type 2.

 

[S33rz]

I think Reinhard would win because sunless don't have any resistance to conceptual manipulation type 2.

Check rank physiology, resistance to absorption and concept type 2 is because of a Sunless feat.

Resistance to Absorption and Concept Manipulation (Type 2) (Sunny could resist the shadow of Condemnation absorbing his body, mind, soul, and spirit — fundamental essence of his existence — into itself.)

Condemnation does it's whole thing via type 2 concept.

 

[Seraphor12]

Check rank physiology, resistance to absorption and concept type 2 is because of a Sunless feat.


Condemnation does it's whole thing via type 2 concept.

That's in supreme section, not in transcendent. I thought this is transcendent sunny vs reinhard.

 

[S33rz]

That's in supreme section, not in transcendent. I thought this is transcendent sunny vs reinhard.

Said feat was performed by Saint Sunless using Will. Some Saints will have part of the supreme physiology Will section because of it.

 

[Seraphor12]

Said feat was performed by Saint Sunless using Will. Some Saints will have part of the supreme physiology Will section because of it.

Wait did you cleared that thing in CRT?

 

[S33rz]

Wait did you cleared that thing in CRT?

I discussed it with actuallyspaceman, Saint profiles have possibly limited reality warping because of it.

Possibly Limited Reality Warping (Saints can learn how to wield the will.)

It's up to supporters to drop what the Saint has accomplished with Will tho, Sunless can only use Will in his Saint key for what he's been shown to use it to do.

 

[Seraphor12]

I discussed it with actuallyspaceman, Saint profiles have possibly limited reality warping because of it.


It's up to supporters to drop what the Saint has accomplished with Will tho, Sunless can only use Will in his Saint key for what he's been shown to use it to do.

Hmm, I see. So I think that too should be added to Sunless's profile in transcendent key. But anyway since he have resistance to conceptual manipulation type 2 and law manipulation too, then I think he wins because of higher ap.

 

[UrongSygn1]

Does Sunny resist Dura Neg?

 

[Seraphor12]

Does Sunny resist Dura Neg?

He can turn into a shadow to avoid getting critical hits.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Edgy ahh teenager vs "I always win" teenager

 

[S33rz]

Edgy ahh teenager vs "I always win" teenager

They both get ordered around a lot too.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

They both get ordered around a lot too.

Sunny is just a fetish at this point lmao, really a Shadow "Slave"

 

[S33rz]

Sunny is just a fetish at this point lmao, really a Shadow "Slave"

In comparison to me (and Reinhard) he's the one in a loving relationship so he's doing something right .

 

[Zabazab]

Edgy ahh teenager vs "I always win" teenager

Reinhard-kun is 20!

 

[S33rz]

Reinhard-kun is 20!

One foot in the grave already!

Anyway, what does Reinhard do when his EE and Dura neg doesn't work. (Actual Reinhard fights are possible guys)

 

[Zabazab]

He's a swordsman first and foremost (even though he usually fights with his limbs instead), so he'll be fairly straightforward.

 

[Hercules1125]

I’m not sure why Sunny can resist the dragon sword, and turning into a shadow wouldn’t really work since we see bright enough sources of light can erase them (Nephis) and Reinhard erases Satella’s shadows casually

Shadow dance wouldn’t really work either, mainly because Sunny as a saint doesn’t have his true name so he would risk getting lost in Reinhard’s own identity, people like Reid (weaker than Reinhard) have been shown consuming people’s identities when they tried to copy them (Roy)

Sunny also shouldn’t have resistance to Reinhard’s power null (assuming we equalise essence and mana) so he’d get drained really quickly and die so yeah, Reinhard takes it IMO

 

[S33rz]

He's a swordsman first and foremost (even though he usually fights with his limbs instead), so he'll be fairly straightforward.

That's fine, Reinhard is quite faster but Sunless AP stomps. He would have to Kill Sunless 7 times tho.

Sunless is Acasual and cut off from Fate so Reinhard can't rely on his intuition to do anything here.

I’m not sure why Sunny can resist the dragon sword, and turning into a shadow wouldn’t really work since we see bright enough sources of light can erase them (Nephis) and Reinhard erases Satella’s shadows casually

Sunless can use shadow Lantern to make infinite shadows and does not have this problem as a Saint.

Shadow dance wouldn’t really work either, mainly because Sunny as a saint doesn’t have his true name so he would risk getting lost in Reinhard’s own identity, people like Reid (weaker than Reinhard) have been shown consuming people’s identities when they tried to copy them (Roy)

No one's arguing for Shadow dance anyway (since he doesn't use it as a Saint), but Sunless is perfectly capable of regaining his identity due to his other duplicates. All Saint's have a True Name which is Info type 2 and is an anchor for the self, Sunless being able to copy any random saint and keeping his sanity is more enough for someone like Reid.

And it would be crazy saying he would be unable to.

Sunny also shouldn’t have resistance to Reinhard’s power null (assuming we equalise essence and mana) so he’d get drained really quickly and die so yeah, Reinhard takes it IMO

Literal random sorcery that Master's resist absorbs and powernull through taking essence. Why would this do anything, especially since Sunless resists this?

Resistance to Absorption and Concept Manipulation (Type 2) (Sunny could resist the shadow of Condemnation absorbing his body, mind, soul, and spirit — fundamental essence of his existence — into itself.)

 

[Hercules1125]

That's fine, Reinhard is quite faster but Sunless AP stomps. He would have to Kill Sunless 7 times tho.

Sunless is Acasual and cut off from Fate so Reinhard can't rely on his intuition to do anything here.

This is fine, but intuition isn’t just a fate thing, it’s also just a general thing which exists through reading the movements and actions of the enemy

Sunless can use shadow Lantern to make infinite shadows and does not have this problem as a Saint.

That’s not what he starts off with especially when he doesn’t know the abilities of his opponent, just look at his fight against the 13 Saints (iirc) he doesn’t start off with that, it’s highly likely he would get erased before he can even do that

No one's arguing for Shadow dance anyway (since he doesn't use it as a Saint), but Sunless is perfectly capable of regaining his identity due to his other duplicates. All Saint's have a True Name which is Info type 2 and is an anchor for the self, Sunless being able to copy any random saint and keeping his sanity is more enough for someone like Reid.

Except Sunny doesn’t fully copy them, and he only copies them to a slight extent so he can maintain his identity which he is textually afraid of losing, whereas Reid is capable of overpowering conceptual authorities stealing his identity

And it would be crazy saying he would be unable to.

Literal random sorcery that Master's resist absorbs and powernull through taking essence. Why would this do anything, especially since Sunless resists this?

I can’t access imgur links, this has to be some form of bullying

 

[S33rz]

This is fine, but intuition isn’t just a fate thing, it’s also just a general thing which exists through reading the movements and actions of the enemy

That's analytical prediction, Sunless can already do that from the first level of shadow dance and in fact his should be better because of being tied to a fundamental aspect.

That’s not what he starts off with especially when he doesn’t know the abilities of his opponent, just look at his fight against the 13 Saints (iirc) he doesn’t start off with that, it’s highly likely he would get erased before he can even do that

Context matters, that was a holding back Sunless who thought they were useful, after he stopped holding back he proceeded to trash them. There's no reason to hold back against Reinhard.

Except Sunny doesn’t fully copy them, and he only copies them to a slight extent so he can maintain his identity which he is textually afraid of losing, whereas Reid is capable of overpowering conceptual authorities stealing his identity

Literally no one has info type 2 stuff in Re zero, which True Names are, why would copying them be harder than a literal info type 2 barrier.

I'm not arguing he will btw, Saint Sunless does not copy people.

I can’t access imgur links, this has to be some form of bullying

I don't have the text, so you'll just have to make do .

 

[Trxyway]

So what are the win cons for each side?

 

[S33rz]

So what are the win cons for each side?

Reinhard:
Kill Sunless 7 times.
Faster
More skilled
Od laguna.

Sunless:
Higher AP
Layered Death manip.
BFR.
Invul/Invul neg

 

[Floxy178]

That’s not what he starts off with especially when he doesn’t know the abilities of his opponent, just look at his fight against the 13 Saints (iirc) he doesn’t start off with that, it’s highly likely he would get erased before he can even do that

Pretty sure his concern was that Slayer would escape via lantern and wipe out everyone, which he didn't want to.

Also (at least by SS's logic) shadows aren't simply countered by light source, it's a matter of which is stronger.

 

[S33rz]

Pretty sure his concern was that Slayer would escape via lantern and wipe out everyone, which he didn't want to.

Also (at least by SS's logic) shadows aren't simply countered by light source, it's a matter of which is stronger.

Forgot about this. Actually, ignoring this does Reinhard have Light manipuation?

 

[Hercules1125]

Forgot about this. Actually, ignoring this does Reinhard have Light manipuation?

Yep

 

[S33rz]

Yep

Color me suprised then.

Not ignoring that, the shadows from the Lantern are definetely more potent whether you go by numbers, source, the caster etc. (Satella is the inferior shadow manipulator.)

 

[Seraphor12]

Color me suprised then.

Not ignoring that, the shadows from the Lantern are definetely more potent whether you go by numbers, source, the caster etc. (Satella is the inferior shadow manipulator.)

Btw, he can also use lantern to destroy light or attacks related to light.

Enchantment Description: [This lantern devours light and can contain, and then release, an infinite amount of shadows.]

And since it is of divine rank, its potency should be way higher, Kinda similar to Divine beings like weaver who are like Low 1-C, so can he resist it from destroying the light?

 

[S33rz]

And since it is of divine rank, its potency should be way higher, Kinda similar to Divine beings like weaver who are like Low 1-C, so can he resist it from destroying the light?

Overkill, imo. But yeah! The Lantern itself is out of Reinhard's/Dragon swords league due to it's nature.

Sunless regular shadow manipulation should also be too powerful as well.