Demon King Daimao High 1A+ CRT

ExcelsisBerny · May 6, 2026

RaikiKurohane99 said:
Characters:
They're referring to characters as people.

Then it is settled. The High 1-A+ argument completely collapses if you accept that part.

SuperNova55555 · May 6, 2026

How Akuto Sai feels creating all logically possible solar systems, within a finite space, using finite people and taking an infinite amount of time to do so because he's bound by potential infinity:

RaikiKurohane99 · May 6, 2026

ExcelsisBerny said:
Then it is settled. The High 1-A+ argument completely collapses if you accept that part.

when I first talked about High 1-A+, I didn't only argue based on what Blaze said. I disagree with many things he said, so part of it was my own way of arguing it
In the end, I'm neutral to the idea itself but disagre with the OP and how they argue it, based on my previous reply,

Currently, it is better to wait for Bleaz’s summary.

Azertyhuuh · May 6, 2026

RaikiKurohane99 said:
After reading the entire thread and majority of the OP, I would say the majority of the lengthy text is unrelated to High 1-A+. Some were termed as High 1-A+ in appearance but they don't seem like High 1-A+ to me in any sense.

I will try to summarize my stance regarding what is actually relevant to the High 1-A+ things. In some cases I agree with one side and not the other, and in some cases I may disagree with both:

Characters:

They're referring to characters as people.

Afterlife:

Is not erased, at least not in the sense that it no longer existed.

It gives me the idea of something like "the plot of land was emptied and the houses were destroyed, then reconstructed". If the Afterlife was the base (land) and everything in it was houses, this gives me the idea that the Afterlife was rearranged so greatly that it could be described as "adding another story to a house" anymore but destroying and reconstructing everything in it.

The arguments proposed by the OP in themselves are insufficient for High 1-A+.

About the Afterlife.

The Afterlife can "transform into any possible world that can be demoted by Logic or Language".

However, there are some problems with how Akuto can release "all possibilities".

The Afterlife's ability is to realize any "possibility". However, would that mean it can also realize all possible worlds (all possibilities) at the same time?
No, because that leads to a logical contradiction. If there is a set of all possible worlds, there cannot be a possible world that contains all possible worlds, as it means said possible world will have to contain itself and more. It's like trying to fit more than 5cm² in an area that is also 5cm². It's an impossible thing. Alternatively, it's trying to say that 5 = 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1

Akuto seems to be capable of realizing/release all possibilities, but he does this through the Afterlife (although yes while using external tools), but that would be incoherent with the facts of how Logical possibilities are realized.

This makes me doubt if the scope of "Logic" defined in DKD is really High 1-A+ or not

You could maybe do something by redefining logic itself universally, but that is something only a tier 0 should be able to do, which Akuto is not, in any way.

So I disagree with the OP's reasoning. However, I'm neutral on the idea of High 1-A+ for DKD and will wait for further input.

Also, I may be wrong in some things I said, as I do not read philosophy greatly. I'm arguing purely based on what is written in our pages on vsbw and my knowledge based on them, and my own logical reasoning.

More importantly, you also agree—and the novel itself makes it clear—that the Afterlife can create any logically possible world, no matter what it is. This is not debatable and has been repeatedly confirmed in the novel.

I will correct one point: the Afterlife functions as a logical space rather than a “world,” so it should not be treated as something that must exist within logically possible worlds. It is a logical space in itself. You can verify this yourself. The key point is that it is a logical space, and within it, any logically possible world can be created, regardless of what it is.

As far as I understand the +H1-A Type 1 tier, Akuto Sai already meets this requirement because he is capable of creating any logically possible world, no matter what it is. This is explicitly stated multiple times in the novel, and this is the main condition for qualifying for +H1-A Type 1.

What I am saying is that it is not required for a character to create all possible worlds simultaneously in order to qualify for this tier. It is sufficient that they are capable of creating any logically possible world, regardless of what it is. This is the primary requirement for this level.

According to the definition of Type 1, a character that can affect, destroy, or create any logically possible world qualifies for this classification. I do not see any statement requiring the creation of all possible worlds at once. It is enough to be able to create or influence any logically possible world. And according to the novel, Akuto Sai is stated to be capable of creating an infinite number of them.

If a character can influence and create any logically possible world, then that matches the original definition of this tier, even if they cannot create all of them simultaneously but can still affect or generate any individual one.

To be honest, I am not fully sure whether my interpretation is correct, but I believe that a character capable of creating any logically possible world should be placed in the highest levels of H1-A or +H1-A. The reasoning is similar to a being capable of creating any dimension regardless of what it is—for example, even a world with infinite dimensions. This would place them at least in the upper ranges of +H1-B to Low 1-A, where the difference between tiers is not about the qualitative nature of existence but rather the quantity of power required to create everything versus a single absolute possibility.

I do not know much about this topic, but I am confident that a character capable of creating any logically possible world should fall into the highest levels of H1-A or +H1-A directly. The distinction is similar to Low 2-C versus 2-A: the difference is based on quantity rather than the nature of existence itself. Both operate within the same ontological framework, but one can create a single four-dimensional world while the other can create an infinite number of them at once. This is not a difference in existence, but only in the amount of energy required.

In general, both cases reach the maximum level of their respective framework, and the difference is only in the scale of what can be produced, not in the fundamental type of existence.

ShinMaximillion · May 6, 2026

BlazeISbot111 · May 6, 2026

ExcelsisBerny said:
In short, Blaze appeals to the fact that the term キャラクター has “another definition,” which is, and I quote directly from Tanoshii Japanese: “letter; character; symbol.” Something that also appears in the Jishoo dictionary.

At first glance, this might seem to make sense. However, there is an important context that Blaze completely ignores, and that I have in fact already addressed in my second response.

This is something Blaze has not responded to. In fact, he has completely ignored it, I wonder why...

I in fact mentioned this in the very first reply to Berny that characters referring to the beings doesn't make any sense.

BlazeISbot111 said:
The dictionary your are using also refers to it as characters in computing, or letter in alphabet. You can use other dictionaries too, some would be much direct referring to it as symbols some don't. In context the sentence "their combinations are infinite" does not make any gramtical sense with personalities or Identities, but it very well does when understood as a letter in alphabet.

This senselessness is central to my argument, that what was the intention of the writer. Something I mentioned again two different times.

BlazeISbot111 said:
I would still be justified in saying that the intention of the writer was what I am talking about. The use of beings to make combinations is incoherent. Additionally, what you are asserting wasn't suggested by the novel anywhere, while what I am asserting is the very cause of that scenario.

BlazeISbot111 said:
ExcelsisBerny said:

Yeah. I'm gonna send my final message showing all the instances the novel uses キャラクター to make my point clear and debunk the whole "characters = letters" nonsense.

Click to expand...

Huh? You do realise that my argument is over the use of キャラクター being meant for letters and not beings, not that the word isn't used for characters in a story? Bringing them up doesn't really deal with the very argument. Heck if you want I can bring those quotes that uses キャラクター to refer to characters in a story.

I justified this incoherency also in my last reply, whilst also answering the question Berny asked thus further justifying my interpretation.

ExcelsisBerny said:
What I am asking is: what sense does it make to emphasize that the “space is finite” and then say that the combinations between that space and the “letters" (according to you) create variables?

The combinations to create worlds are supposed to be between the data itself (again, according to your interpretation). So in that case, talking about “space” is useless, since the space itself is defined by the combinations of that same data.

Unless you think the letters LITERALLY take up space.

To simplify the argument is over the consistency and coherency of the use of "character".

And additionally as I questioned, Berny is very much unable to justify her own interpretation using the novels, referring to possibilities as configuration of beings with "scenario". Nothing such "scenario" has been said in the novels.

BlazeISbot111 said:
Now, I explained my stance, could you explain the many questions I put forth? Or can you justify using quotes from novel how characters combine with space or anything in that regards?

Most importantly, I would quote Berny on how she is dishonestly arguing this just to justify that the possibilities that were explicitly said to be infinite are not infinite. To simplify, I am "objectively" wrong to argue against an incoherent interpretation but she is justified in butchering actual quotes just to fit the agenda. Heck, she is also justifying that "could be infinite" is contradictory to infinite.

ExcelsisBerny said:
And even if this were taken as worlds that concretely exist before Akuto creates them, there is still the problem that these possibilities are not infinite in number.

To understand this point, it is necessary to read the text in its original language, since J-Novel did not translate this part correctly.

In the original Japanese text, it is not directly established that the possibilities are infinite. Instead, it uses 無限ともいえる, which leans more toward “virtually infinite” or “could be called infinite,” with the obvious connotation that they are not truly infinite, but rather so numerous that they could be considered “infinite.”

RAW
例えば、「象が空を飛ぶ」「ヒトラーは西(せい)暦(れき)二〇〇〇年に巴(ぱ)里(り)を訪問した」というようなふたつの文章は、現実には有り得ないが、文法としては成り立つ。もし、象が飛行生物であったなら、もしヒトラーが死ななかったなら、現実としても成り立つ。それらをあり得たかも知れない世界として肯(こう)定(てい)していく。すると、世界には無限ともいえる可能性が含まれていることがわかる。それらは並行世界として無限に存在していると考えてもよい。

TL
For example, two sentences such as 'an elephant flies through the sky' and 'Hitler visited Paris in the year 2000 CE' cannot occur in reality, but they are grammatically valid. If elephants had been flying creatures, and if Hitler had not died, they would also be valid as reality. One affirms them as worlds that might have been possible. Then, it becomes clear that the world contains possibilities that could be called infinite. It may also be considered that they exist infinitely as parallel worlds.

-- ACT 13: CH 3

Click to expand...

And this is supported by the way Akuto creates these possibilities in the first place.

While there is a belief that Akuto creates these possibilities through the combination of letters or words to form coherent sentences, the truth is that what Akuto actually does is take the scenarios (the space), and the characters (identities) of the story, making them interact in a multitude of different ways.

This is evident in the original language, where the katakana キャラクター is used, which refers to characters/personalities/identities within a story.

So, for obvious reasons, those “infinite possibilities” are not actually infinite, but simply an enormous number, unless you genuinely think there can be literally infinite interactions between a set of characters and a limited space.

To give some context Afterlife's "that could be infinite" is a character statement while the explicit infinite possibilities statement is by narrator himself.

Maybe opening up all the possibilities was a mistake. Space is finite. Characters are finite. But their combinations are infinite. Opening up a possibility meant breaking down the walls of the worlds within Akuto that might have been.

To make it worse she then tries to justify this interpretation by suggesting that the world cannot be infinitely divided(additionally it was only temporal nature not spatial) even though this principle only applies to Akuto's world and not Afterlife itself.

ExcelsisBerny said:
Which, by the way, is impossible because time and space in DKD are not infinitely divisible, since if they were, the text openly says that Achilles and the tortoise paradox would become real. Which is logical, because across any distance in space or time, one would have to traverse an infinite number of points.

RAW
空間こそ有限であり、キャラクターこそ有限ではあるが、その組み合わせは無限となる。可能性を開く、ということは、概念としてだけでなく、実際に阿(あ)九(く)斗(と)の内にあったはずの世界の壁すら解放してしまったことを指す。

TL
Space itself is finite, and the characters themselves are finite, but their combinations become infinite. To 'open possibilities' refers not only to doing so as a concept, but to actually having released even the walls of the world that should have existed within Akuto.

-- ACT 13: CH 4

Click to expand...

He repeated what the textbooks had told him.

"Time is relative. It's the same thing as space in which matter moves," he said. "As speed goes up, the space you can move to increases, and so does the probability that you'll encounter various events. But matter can only move in one direction. Expressed in two dimensions, it's like only being able to choose one point within an expanding ripple on a lake."

"That's more or less right. One thing cannot exist at multiple points in space at the same time. But here that law doesn't apply. That's why I was able to go back in time."

Boichiro picked up a branch and used it to draw a line on the ground.

"The reason that something can't exist in multiple places at once is that, in fact, time has a minimum unit size. If it could be infinitely divided, then the paradox of the tortoise and Achilles would be made real."

-- ACT 13: CH 1

Click to expand...

My argument was then pushed away by asserting:

ExcelsisBerny said:
The lack of reading comprehension and media literacy knows no bounds. The text is talking about how the entire world works, and it is because of that that Bouichirou can travel through time, since otherwise it would not be possible.

It is not saying that the world cannot be defined through that theory. It is clarifying that the world’s timeline is linear and does not normally branch.

To top it all off, the novel never says there is “infinite time” in the Afterlife, lol. It only says that matter exists there simultaneously, and that is because the verse is eternalist (all the timeline share the same real ontology).

The issue with this is that the "smallest unit of time" that she is arguing for the finite divisibility with, in the full context was said to be the case for Akuto's world due to which time travel is not possible. Afterlife, which Bochiro explicitly states doesn't work on this principle allows time travel to be possible. Worst of all the Novel explicitly says time in Afterlife is "eternal"(worst of all it's the very plot of Vol13). All of this was explained by me in the next reply,(obviously in the CRT too) the reply that was in its entirety ignored.

“It’s hard to answer that question at its core. In fact, this afterlife is essentially the ‘time’ the Demon King bought. It’s not over yet.”
“It’s not?” Hiroshi asked, confused.
“But this place may be the end. Perhaps there is an end without an ending. An ending where time is eternal, like this.”

“So why delete it and start over? He’s practically a god. How is he not satisfied with the world he created?”
“We can guess at that from the statements he made. Because it was a world that had ended, but would continue for eternity,” Boichiro said. “I know the feeling.”

Since I was said to be "ignoring" arguments and also questioned to being dishonest, the few such cases where Berny ignored or was being dishonest would be discussed below(obviously it will also summarise the argument to some extent).

Before starting this, it's to be noted that this, this and this reply that were part of ongoing argument were ignored entirely.

Starting with the arguments related to author. Berny uses the tweets where author says that Outer Gods cannot be counted, are mixed and thus not infinite, and that translation messes up countless to "infinity".

ExcelsisBerny said:
And this is not something I am saying just to try to downplay this verse, but something Mizuki himself (the author) clarifies twice to fans who ask him questions on Twitter/X. And it is funny because, unlike other statements where it is obvious that Mizuki does not understand the questions, this time the guy answers directly, flatly denying that there are infinite Outer Gods.

Question
You said countless Archetypal extra-universal gods, for example, do you have a number like 10,100,1000 in your mind, also, are all Archetypal gods equal or one trascendes the other?

Answer
Extra-universal gods cannot be counted in real numbers(They are mixed), but I don't think they are infinite.

-- Scans

Click to expand...

Question
In the novel, Archetype Extra Universe God, there is a sentence for Extra God, "They were humanoid and countless in number." When you say countless, do you mean infinite number?

Answer
It's a mess caused by translation. countless ≠ infinite. means many

-- Scans

Click to expand...

To which I said that author is referring to aleph-1 cardinality and that author in the regards to his philosophy also says that Outer Gods are infinite.

BlazeISbot111 said:
If it isn't clear by the text itself, Author refers to Outer Gods as "counted in real number" which is considered to be Alpeh-1 in the wiki.

BUT this was something I mentioned even in the previous CRT. Author later on directly states their being infinite numbers of them.

In the novel, the birth of the universe is "You!" It is a wonder that the ego can recognize the other. If the ego could count, it would be infinite. It seems to be a worldview that cannot affirm a mathematical universe. Not in my opinion, but in the worldview of the novel.
~ @S_Mizuki

Click to expand...

In solipsism, the only thing that perceives the universe is oneself. However, solipsism does not deny the existence of others.
~ @S_Mizuki
Would it be easier to say that each individual is in a state of having his or her own universe? Individuals in it are all human beings from the past to the future.
~ @S_Mizuki
Are you talking about individuals/ghosts in archetypal gods?. because the archetypal akuto also contains an infinite number of individuals/souls within him. Individuals exist as different concepts.
~ @Siperri1
It refers to the number of gods that Akuto witnessed. It can be the ghosts that the archetypal god encompasses.
~ @S_Mizuki

Click to expand...

To which Berny replied with quoting that author doesn't know of uncountable infinity as he himself has said that he doesn't understand set theory well and there can be. After which she then tries to refute the infinite by breaking down these tweets into separate quotes even though they were part of a single conversation(except for the first one which is in separate box) and consecutive to one another.

In reality the lack of knowledge of set theory and its inaccuracy to the cosmology was in the context that they were used for Story Density in Vol13 which creates discrepancy with the use of Set theory in Vol5 for Computer Gods, a confusion caused by the fans and Powerscalers asking questions. Additonally, author doesn't refer to ghosts being infinite(which are explicitly finite in the novel), it was a thought that the author would use in future novels. All of this was explained in the reply that was completely ignored, with the addition of an even more straightforward quote with author stating that the stories in specturm of story density is infinite each being represented by Outer Gods,

The word spectrum is used to mean that there are infinite steps in the fictional(story) concentration,From heavy to light.
The story is made up of gods of close concentration.

Another one of Berny's claim is that the time being infinite in the world has been retconned due to their being finite time jump between story creation, from Void Universe to Gravity Universe. And that author said that there is discrepancy between vol5 and vol13.

ExcelsisBerny said:
he excerpt used to support this is the following:

While this argument seems to go against what is established in the last ACTs of the novel by showing that there is an “infinite past,” you have to keep in mind that “infinitely far back in the past” can perfectly be hyperbolic wording used to express a very long time.

Akuto went from the Void Universe to the world of stories in thousands of years (just like Hiroshi TLOI), so the idea that there is an infinite past is completely incoherent with everything, even ignoring my arguments from the first part of the response.

However, there is also an answer given by the author for this same scene, and it is that the guy forgot what he wrote in the first five ACTs. That is why the information from the early ACTs does not always line up with the final ACTs, like ACT 13. In other words, he retconned the information.

This is not something that unrealistic or absurd in context, because that novel was published over five years, from 2008 to 2013.

I thought it was infinite in mathematical set theory. Infinite density is also a computer-generated world. Sorry if my knowledge of set theory is incomplete and wrong. There may be some discrepancies between volume 5 and volume 13.

-- Scans

Click to expand...

I have been sick since volume 11 and it took me years to get to volume 13. I have forgotten some of the concepts during that time.

-- Scans

Click to expand...

Therefore, the most recent information is the one that should be taken into account, and that information is that there is no “infinite past,” as I demonstrated in the first part of this response.

As should have been understood from previous reply, the discrepancy is solely over the use of set theory for story density. Even ignoring that there are still multiple steps between Anti-Gravity Universe to Akuto's world. No amount of agenda can have one forget how the cosmology itself works. The generalisation can literally not exist. Especially the argument itself is entirely circular.

“The Antigravity Universe allows love to exist.”
Beings there consumed each other, but the moment they collided, sometimes they shared their being, and gave birth to new existence.
“Me!”
“You!”
“I killed!”
“I increased!”
Lively voices filled the space.
“I guess the universe I know is really close. Is that all the universes, then?” Akuto asked. And the outer gods said no.

The response to which was just "nuh-uh" and also a "direct statement":

ExcelsisBerny said:
Quoting the OP’s response:

He was being gaslit by the powerscaling guy Siperri. Either way, I already demonstrated above, with plenty of evidence, that the author has no idea about set theory, by his own admission.

In any case, you are completely shadowboxing the point, because my argument is centered on the fact that the author retconned information, something that is directly stated, and you are conveniently ignoring the second quote, which explains why that information is contradicted in later ACTs.

I have been sick since volume 11 and it took me years to get to volume 13. I have forgotten some of the concepts during that time.

-- Scans

Click to expand...

To summarise this one: unnecessary amounts of headcanon.

One of the most significant claim is that the Afterlife is being "reconfigured" to test stories, and is used to argue against that Akuto didn't erase Afterlife to release all possibilities.

ExcelsisBerny said:
Now, in this third part of the message, I am going to refute some loose arguments from the OP that serve as complements to the main point.

“Akuto destroyed the Afterlife, so he was not limited to that system when he released the possibilities.”

Quoting the OP:

This is directly false, but even presupposing it were true, there is no evidence that Akuto “destroyed” the Afterlife BEFORE releasing the possibilities, so you cannot establish that causal relationship for no reason solely to support your agenda.

Anyway, none of the quotes the OP used demonstrate anything of the sort. Let’s go through them:

These two statements are literally telling you that what Akuto did was reset the Afterlife. “Erased” is not literal in this case. What he did was alter its arrangement so he could manifest the worlds he had been testing during his stay in that world.

The OP tries to respond to this by claiming that what Akuto did was “reset his world” and not the Afterlife:

But this justification is nonsensical because the world of the Demon King IS the Afterlife. Like, the very two quotes he posted literally tell you that.

And on top of that, just as the statement above defines the world being reconstructed in “digital form,” Mizuki himself defines the Afterlife as the world of data/information, which clearly shows that while Akuto altered its structure by digitalizing it, it is still the same system.

And all of the above is basically confirmed in the novel itself when Akuto, upon creating the final world, explicitly says that he is “reconstructing” the Afterlife, which confirms that he never completely “erased” it like the OP wrote.

In other words, this means that the justification Blaze tried to give to “debunk” the previous thread that limited the “possible worlds” to the lower system of the Afterlife is completely false, and the problem still stands even if we ignore the entire previous debunk of the “infinite possibilities.”

And

Since the replies are not completely clear I will summarise the argument here.
Afterlife is a digital world and reconstruction of the Akuto's world in digital form.

“The afterlife is within the boundaries of her creation as well. And we can assume that it’s within the domain of the Demon King, too.” Brave nodded again.
“I see. Everyone died and was reborn... But at the hands of the Demon King.”
“Correct. The entire world was reconstructed in digital form. Justlike the computer gods once tried to do.”
~ Demon King Daimaō Volume 13 Chapter 3

Time in Afterlife differs from time in Akuto's world. In Akuto's world time has smallest unit thus avoiding Zeno's paradox, thus prohibiting time travel. While Afterlife that contains all "matter"(data) simultaneously allowing for time travel. Time and thus world can be changed by reconfiguring its contents.

“Time is relative. It’s the same thing as space in which matter moves,” he said. ”As speed goes up, the space you can move to increases, and so does the probability that you’ll encounter various events. But matter can only move in one direction. Expressed in two dimensions, it’s like only being able to choose one point within an expanding ripple on a lake.”
“That’s more or less right. One thing cannot exist at multiple points in space at the same time. But here that law doesn’t apply. That’s why I was able to go back in time.”
Boichiro picked up a branch and used it to draw a line on the ground.
“The reason that something can’t exist in multiple places at once is that, in fact, time has a minimum unit size. If it could be infinitely divided, then the paradox of the tortoise and Achilles would be made real.”
He drew a symbol at the center of the line on the ground. And then another at the center of the right side of the newly divided line. He repeated this process 32 times, until the symbol itself was larger than the divided line.
“Imagine this symbol as the minimum unit size of time, and you’ll understand.”
“I can understand that. But what does that have to do with it being possible to go back in time? Doesn’t that make it so going back in time is impossible?”
“Correct. In the model with the rippling lake, the other points on the circle are just probabilities. In other words, they might have happened, but they didn’t. Even if matter returns to the point it was in before, the other matter is no longer there. But the world that we know is not like the lake.”
He erased the line with his foot, and drew another.
“This world is, according to standard physics, impossible. This world is like a video, or a book. It’s linear.”
Boichiro drew several squares above the line, with the number of squares increasing as the line moved to the right.
“Here, all matter exists simultaneously. The past continues to exist. Imagine blocks being piled up on top of other blocks. And these blocks can be rearranged.”
“And that’s why it’s possible to rewrite the past, and change the future.” Hiroshi nodded in understanding.
“Correct. It’s possible to change it,” Boichiro said.
~ Demon King Daimaō Volume 13 Chapter 1

What Berny refers to rearranging the Afterlife to test stories, is actually used to time travel and make a possibility occur.

Afterlife changes all the time.

“So, the Demon King changed the whole afterlife?” Brave asked, putting a hand on his hip.
“It’s always getting changed. This time, however, he erased it.”
“Erased it? You mean he reset it and did it over?”

This "always getting changed" is the reason why given enough time anything that is possible can happen in Afterlife.

"You're going to end the world... But like I said, that's complicated. First, I need to explain what this world is. The afterlife acts as if it was made just for us. It responds to our will, or your will, mostly. Which means that this world can take any form you want it to."
"That, I understand."
"No, you don't, really. You don't know what that really means.
There's a concept called 'possible worlds'."
"Possible worlds?" Akuto "remembered" a word that he'd never known by scanning the data loaded into his mind.
"I see. A thought experiment that says in a world where anything can happen, given enough time, any given thing will happen."
"Correct. Anything that can be put into writing can happen here. Which means that nothing will happen that can't be expressed in words."

This continuous change is the same as reconfiguration of matter and should be justified by the quotes above.

The world was howling.
Only a few noticed it, but of course, that few included Brave and Boichiro.
“What’s going on?” Brave asked. But he instinctively knew the answer: the world itself was losing its shape.
“This is the moment the world is reconstructed. Each time you changed the past, I was able to sense a smaller version of this. I don’t think anyone else did, though,” Boichiro explained.

Akuto's job was to end the Afterlife and than restart the stories over and over again, not reconfigure the matter.

“So, the Demon King changed the whole afterlife?” Brave asked, putting a hand on his hip.
“It’s always getting changed. This time, however, he erased it.”
“Erased it? You mean he reset it and did it over?”

"You're going to end the world... But like I said, that's complicated. First, I need to explain what this world is. The afterlife acts as if it was made just for us. It responds to our will, or your will, mostly. Which means that this world can take any form you want it to."

“I see. Everyone died and was reborn... But at the hands of the Demon King.”
“Correct. The entire world was reconstructed in digital form. Just like the computer gods once tried to do.”
“So why delete it and start over? He’s practically a god. How is he not satisfied with the world he created?”

Boichiro’s face seemed strangely relaxed.
“Sure, I feel something here that you might call fate. We weren’t caught up in what the Demon King just did, after all.”
“The Demon King is going to start the story over and over again, and see what he can learn. Using the people who went to the afterlife as characters.” There was no doubt in Boichiro’s voice.

To add context, complete erasure and then restarting over was something Hiroshi and Boichiro could not have been part of so when they left the Afterlife completely before being caught in it. So, when it's argued that Afterlife was simply reconfigured at that time, nope, it was slowly loosing it form before being erased, and the reason why Hiroshi and Boichiro were able to escape from it.

The world was howling.
Only a few noticed it, but of course, that few included Brave and Boichiro.
"What's going on?" Brave asked. But he instinctively knew the answer: the world itself was losing its shape.
"This is the moment the world is reconstructed. Each time you changed the past, I was able to sense a smaller version of this. I don't think anyone else did, though," Boichiro explained.
"Which means the change..."
"Of course. It was caused by the Demon King. Boot up your suit. We're leaving."
"Leaving?" Brave asked, but as he did, he activated the suit's time travel device. He adjusted the settings so that when he jumped, Boichiro would jump with him.
"We're going to disappear from this space. In this moment, the Demon King is in complete control of the afterlife. We're going to make it so we're not a part of that."
"You can tell me the details later." Brave jumped to a time he'd never gone to before.
He wanted to avoid any human contact, so he'd chosen the summit of a high mountain in a time where there was no magical, or even electrical civilization.
"I figured you wouldn't want to go anywhere cold, so I chose a place 2000 meters above sea level, in the middle of summer."
They were surrounded by rocky mountaintops, with a forest below and nothing else for miles. Snow could be seen on the peaks above them, but the sun was shining here, and it was actually hot.
"Thanks. The weather might be better than the afterlife here. The chill from this wind is actually rather pleasant." Boichiro sat down on a nearby rock.

Boichiro’s face seemed strangely relaxed.
“Sure, I feel something here that you might call fate. We weren’t caught up in what the Demon King just did, after all.”

Additionally, after the world was erased as as instructed by Yoshie Akuto simply releases all the possibilities rather than individually testing them, and thus the "mistake".

“You’re going to make every possible theoretical world,” Yoshie said, as if ordering him.
“Every one of them, huh?”
It was a staggering concept to think about.
“Whatever is left at the end is what you want. View every possible world, and then choose the one you want.”

Maybe opening up all the possibilities was a mistake. Space is finite. Characters are finite. But their combinations are infinite. Opening up a possibility meant breaking down the walls of the worlds within Akuto that might have been.

Copy pasting my previous post that was ignored. Incoherency of characters+ explaining finite space:

The combinations as per my arguments are over the letters, not letters combining with space. It's unclear in what even is meant by finite space.

But I would entertain your question as it might answer what the use of space is.

Ignoring whatever could be meant by Characters, if we take the important concepts— space, combination and possibilities it is very clear it is referring to the "ripple in a lake" analogy of the time to express Possibilities as was explained by Boichiro. In this model of the world the other points in space are possibilities that didn't happen. By time travelling one could use those possibilities by reconfiguring matter.

"Time is relative. It's the same thing as space in which matter moves," he said. "As speed goes up, the space you can move to increases, and so does the probability that you'll encounter various events. But matter can only move in one direction. Expressed in two dimensions, it's like only being able to choose one point within an expanding ripple on a lake."
"That's more or less right. One thing cannot exist at multiple points in space at the same time. But here that law doesn't apply. That's why I was able to go back in time."
Boichiro picked up a branch and used it to draw a line on the ground.
"The reason that something can't exist in multiple places at once is that, in fact, time has a minimum unit size. If it could be infinitely divided, then the paradox of the tortoise and Achilles would be made real."
He drew a symbol at the center of the line on the ground. And then another at the center of the right side of the newly divided line. He repeated this process 32 times, until the symbol itself was larger than the divided line.
"Imagine this symbol as the minimum unit size of time, and you'll understand."
"I can understand that. But what does that have to do with it being possible to go back in time? Doesn't that make it so going back in time is impossible?"
"Correct. In the model with the rippling lake, the other points on the circle are just probabilities. In other words, they might have happened, but they didn't. Even if matter returns to the point it was in before, the other matter is no longer there. But the world that we know is not like the lake."

The very immediate understanding that would be made is that finite space would have to refer to something similar to Afterlife, but as has already been demonstrated 1- it was erased. 2- Afterlife is objectively smaller than the real world so it cannot be the space where the possibilities were actualised of anything in that sense happened.

The another and major thing to understand is it refers to "matter" not just "characters" that are involved in this "combination in space". It's also a fact that the possibilities involved non-living things that are not characters or ghosts/souls. The use of "characters" to refer to being and their combination is very much inconsistent.

As soon as the modern era arrived, they became exponentially more complex, because the machines and cities themselves became elements in the story. But what made things particularly difficult here were the elements brought in by the gods of outer space. Things that the Law of Identity lacked were there.

Additionally, the very reason why Afterlife allows such reconfiguration is because it's a world made of information, thus everything is and also underlined by words, so we go back to just words/letters.

“I see. Everyone died and was reborn... But at the hands of the Demon King.”
“Correct. The entire world was reconstructed in digital form. Just like the computer gods once tried to do.”

Thus the inference that the "characters" refers to letters is very much justified by this very understanding.

The sole reason why I was not talking about this is because it still doesn't explain what the "finite space" means. The only thing that it could mean by this understanding is Akuto's body.

Maybe opening up all the possibilities was a mistake. Space is finite. Characters are finite. But their combinations are infinite. Opening up a possibility meant breaking down the walls of the worlds within Akuto that might have been.
It was the equivalent of giving birth to a new universe within himself. Of course, the tools for this universe weren’t limited to what was inside Akuto. The gods of the outer universe, even they became a part of the story. As a result, the story became chaos.

Chaos:

Berny argues that Chaos wasn't annihilation of stories through exhaustion of but just a chaos created by all Outer Gods being running their stories at the same place.

ExcelsisBerny said:
"Releasing of possibilities leads to a total annihilation of all the stories"

This is what the OP argues:
This part seriously pisses me off because there is not ANY statement about “the possibilities being annihilated.”

The reason "chaos" is mentioned is extremely simple, and it is something I already wrote in the old downgrade thread: when Akuto broke through his internal barriers, he allowed the Outer Gods to self-insert into his stories, increasing their narrative density.

This caused a bunch of protagonists to try to advance at the same time within a shared setting, which led to complete narrative chaos.

This is the equivalent of you defining a story and then having thousands upon thousands of protagonists in that same story all advancing at the same time. It is OBVIOUS that this would create a tremendous amount of chaos that makes the structure of the world stop making sense.

And by the way, the act of releasing the possibilities is equivalent to creating new universes inside the God Universe. So, evidently, since Akuto does not have “infinite characters” on hand, as I already explained in the second part of this response, your interpretation that Akuto encompassed within his being all logically possible worlds is nonsense. What is actually happening is that Akuto tests worlds as he creates them.

This is factually wrong, the novel explicitly states "infinite possibilities made stories impotent". Additionally, there was chaos but no conflict because the exhaustion of relations meant that no being shared to story, without which there could be no conflict.

What does it mean when a story turns into chaos? You can find
the answer within one of our oldest stories: “The Tower of Babel.”
Until then, you could say that humanity shared a story. Everyone, essentially, was playing their own role in the story. That’s why the world refused to allow anybody but Akuto to alter it. But what happens if a story ceases to be shared?
The answer is: chaos.
The gods of the outer universe were, you could say, their own main characters, with their own main stories. So multiple protagonists tried to advance their own stories within the same place. It may have been chaos, but there was no conflict.
The reason for this was that it wasn’t just strong stories that were trying to take control, but even weak stories were included in this as well. The frustrating thing was that the strength of a story had nothing to do with its size.
Weak, huge things drove daily life.
Strong, small things drove the abnormal events.
Those stories that explained the birth of the world and made humanity realize its shared nature were large in scope, but some of them dissolved unnoticed into the bustle of daily life. Stories of individuals were carved irreparably into the mind, but of course, they applied to nothing more than individuals.
Individuals.
This was the first time that humanity became “individual”.
With shared words, but no shared stories, no relationships could be born. It was impossible for someone to be an enemy or a friend, of course, but they couldn’t be a stranger either. Infinite possibilities made stories impotent.

This is then followed by recreating the story/Universe from scratch.

Not only this but Hiroshi when he becomes the new TLOI goes through the same process of recreating story/Universe.

Eventually Keena turned inside out, and disappeared into this new world — the anti-universe. All that was left was void was within void. Void without even words. In other words, a new void universe was born.
But just before that happened...
A conversation was held in a fraction of an instant, in the smallest possible amount of time that could be recorded. One thing was left behind in the void universe.

Additionally, I mentioned this previously in one of the replies but it was ignored so I am gonna reiterate it. After the world was reconstructed from the chaos, Akuto starts Individually testing the stories, which would have taken infinite span of time, directly stated to be due to the need to test every story. So, by no means it can be the case that the possibilities were not infinite.

And beyond that. There is a story.
Thus, reality became reality.
To recognize reality, stories are needed. And this is because relationships with others are born here. But recreating all those possible stories took Akuto what amounted to an infinite span of time. Because, of course, he needed to test every story. But even so, the stories instantly became more complicated.

"You must leave behind stories as stories. So that the next souls can go to that place as well."
He shook his head, as if he found this impossible to believe.
"That's so cruel...!"
"The concept of 'cruel' is only something you feel because you view things through stories. You will simply start over from the beginning. In the next instant, you'll go to the void universe, and then you will shift to the faceless universe, and then the gravity universe. Though it may take tens of thousands of years."
"Don't say that! Am I starting the story over from scratch?"
"There's nothing that can be done about it. Because you are you."
"Because I am me? I can't escape from that."
"That is called the Law of Identity."
"I'm going to become the Law of Identity?"
"You will be the next Law of Identity. If you are next to be saved, it will be when you become the guide for the next group of people.
When you lead the stories that are trapped by gravity to lightness."
"But that's so sad... I have to leave everyone behind..."
"In the next moment, even sadness will no longer exist. This is not a goodbye. There were other souls besides you in this story, 'Demon King Daimaou,' that were not saved. So if you become the next Law of Identity, you won't be alone."
This conversation took place in the smallest amount of time possible, but in the hero's next conscious moment, he was in the void universe, where time did not exist.

Now, if we go by "Characters" referring to beings themselves, then the issue of what finite space is referred to still persists. Whatever it might mean its very much justified that the possibilities themselves are infinite. And we do also know that the possibilities themselves were made in reference to the concept of Possible world with the possibilities only limited by grammatical correctness, admitting to both simple and compound Propositions. Therefore it can still be argued that the infinite possibilities are modally maximal, with characters being the subject to predication. Although, I would still argue that characters refers to letters and not beings solely based on coherency.

To summarise just this reply as an argument:

Afterlife didn't exist at the time when all infinite possibilities were released, thus the only limit to the possibilities was gramtical correctness, and as a consequence of releasing Possibilities leading to breaking down the Akuto's being thus subsuming all the Outer Gods inside himself.
Going by author tweet itself there are infinite Outer Gods.
Characters referring to beings is very much Inconsistent with the novel.
Berny's assertion that combinations of space(scenerio) and characters(beings) is not founded in the novel.
Writer never retconned anything, space and time can be divided infinitely.
Due to the exhaustion of all relations to the point no stories were shared Chaos was the annihilation of all stories.

BlazeISbot111 · May 6, 2026

RaikiKurohane99 said:
You are the closest to being correct in meaning.
I will reply to the rest shortly or tomorrow.
I am doing something right now.

Reminder for the second part about "higher being/beings".

Vesxpura · May 6, 2026

BlazeISbot111 said:
To which I said that author is referring to aleph-1 cardinality and that author in the regards to his philosophy also says that Outer Gods are infinite.

Are you not just contradicting the author atp? Bernys translation explicitly says that they cannot be counted in real numbers. not that they can which is what you say. Ignoring even that, the statement itself is vague(even if we take the best case scenario, where hes referring to indexing and a greater size difference, which would mean they are being indexed using ordinals, this is also unlikely as the author stated he isnt too knowledgeable on this) and the statement itself is contradictory if we interpret it normally. which should be grounds of disregarding the statement no? as per

Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded

Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.

BlazeISbot111 · May 7, 2026

Vesxpura said:
Are you not just contradicting the author atp? Bernys translation explicitly says that they cannot be counted in real numbers.

Author tweet.

Vesxpura said:
not that they can which is what you say. Ignoring even that, the statement itself is vague(even if we take the best case scenario, where hes referring to indexing and a greater size difference, which would mean they are being indexed using ordinals, this is also unlikely as the author stated he isnt too knowledgeable on this) and the statement itself is contradictory if we interpret it normally. which should be grounds of disregarding the statement no? as per

Vague? Are you saying this is vague? Huh?

The word spectrum is used to mean that there are infinite steps in the fictional(story) concentration,From heavy to light.
The story is made up of gods of close concentration.

The other tweet that I used alongside this one are the more recent and as Berny herself said herself, recent information is to be used.

ExcelsisBerny said:
Therefore, the most recent information is the one that should be taken into account, and that information is that there is no “infinite past,” as I demonstrated in the first part of this response.

ExcelsisBerny · May 7, 2026

BlazeISbot111 said:
The other tweet that I used alongside this one are the more recent and as Berny herself said herself, recent information is to be used

More recent information regarding the story, like a newly released volume, not “new information” regarding Twitter statements. The author clearly said multiple times that he does not remember anything anymore.

Your last message is just a bunch of desperate flailing. We can already wait for the verdict, it is obvious that you are objectively wrong. I have openly demonstrated to you that it is impossible for that scan to be talking about computational characters. Beyond that, there is nothing else I can do.

Mbpoops · May 7, 2026

SuperNova55555 said:
How Akuto Sai feels creating all logically possible solar systems, within a finite space, using finite people and taking an infinite amount of time to do so because he's bound by potential infinity:

H1-T

ApostolUmbrei · May 7, 2026

ShinMaximillion said:
Well...perhaps it's because this isn't enough for High 1-A+? These possible worlds just kinda sucks man. The cosmology itself is peculiar and interesting, though tbh, however, something doesn't have to scale high to be interesting.

Although it's better to wait for the staff now, there's nothing much to argue about it seems.

I also disagree with it being High 1-A+ lol because the chapters literally imply the same worlds are temporal and dimensional and the same just said "space beyond time" for the Void Akuto

Quintessence_PE · May 8, 2026

I'd say it actually makes sense but it feels it doesn't when OP looks like a shitshow

AloseVQ · May 8, 2026

Disagree FRA

SuperNova55555 · May 8, 2026

Quintessence_PE said:
I'd say it actually makes sense but it feels it doesn't when OP looks like a shitshow

Shin and Berny have aura—the most important trait for vsbattling

Azertyhuuh · May 8, 2026

So far, I find the original poster’s argument reasonable. The only issue is that he is alone and has no supporters in this thread, while the opponents and their allies are all present and prepared. Even so, I still consider the original poster’s reasoning to be logical.

Vesxpura · May 8, 2026

SuperNova55555 said:
Shin and Berny have aura—the most important trait for vsbattling

notice how you arent up there with them. stay humble

ApostolUmbrei · May 9, 2026

Most useless thread oat. + I agree with @ExcelsisBerny and @ShinMaximillion about the DKD stuff. the H1A+ stuff is vague asf

ShinMaximillion · May 9, 2026

Vesxpura said:
notice how you arent up there with them. stay humble

Chill on my guy. He's got more aura than I can ever muster, tis I who should remain humble in front of my little kitten SuwupurrNova.

SuperNova55555 · May 9, 2026

ShinMaximillion said:
Chill on my guy. He's got more aura than I can ever muster, tis I who should remain humble in front of my little kitten SuwupurrNova.

Mbpoops · May 9, 2026

jelly

Vesxpura · May 9, 2026

ShinMaximillion said:
Chill on my guy. He's got more aura than I can ever muster, tis I who should remain humble in front of my little kitten SuwupurrNova.

might wanna reconsider. he only fw lotm not any of US humble people

SkyBlade6635 · May 15, 2026

BlazeISbot111 said:
ni abstrait comme l'est un réalisme modal de substitution

Euh, abstract, you say? I’m not sure if that’s an error on your part, but Lewis’s modal realism rejects that possible worlds are concrete according to David Lewis. On the other hand, your point is supported by Ersatzism, which opposes Lewis’s conception because, according to them, worlds are abstract ideas, and so on

Livinmeme · May 17, 2026

This place beyond logic and space...Is still bound by time, space, lenght, logic, grammatics and takes literal MILLENIUMS to write something

Imagine getting outdone comedically hard by Gandalf, while explaining it 10x as much.

ApostolUmbrei · May 25, 2026

ShinMaximillion said:
First of all, not only do Aristotle's categories have no relevance to DKD, but none of them is High 1-A+. Might as well stick to stuff you know, and argue with that. Don't get too excited.

High 1-A+ uses Aristotelian definitions heavily but the thing is that DKD has no relation lol it just says "The Law of Identity" without substantiation, an example of High 1-A+ EMR is Tolkien for exampel but the thing is that it requires abstract worlds that exist outside of time and space and follow law of noncontradiction

which DKD hasnt substantiated upon they even said the "fictional worlds" are 3-D and not even truly infinite.

So Aristotle is High 1-A+ but the thing is that DKD has no relation to Aristotle

360flashlight · May 27, 2026

The DKD verse tops out at High 1-A on VSBW. If you want to argue on AFB or OBW where "High 1-A+" exists as a bracket, that's a different conversation but on this topic specifically, the evidence doesn't get you past High 1-A for anyone in the verse.

But I do believe the law of identity can reach h1A+ as yes I'm kinda of a glazer but I'm more honest if I say so myself if you think otherwise akuto sai still beats many of anime fiction

@BlazeISbot111
@Azertyhuuh I got my hopes up men

I do wish I'll see akuto sai at h1A+

Please note this note I'm not making a argument just giving out some information that's all

If Mizuki had written one more line about TLOI existing prior to or outside the concept of story hierarchies entirely rather than just being their top you'd have a legitimate push. But he didn't, and VSBW won't infer it.

And ya I disagree with berney with most things because she larping it

ExcelsisBerny · May 27, 2026

?????

360flashlight · May 27, 2026

Why you replying so fast?

Azertyhuuh · May 28, 2026

360flashlight said:
The DKD verse tops out at High 1-A on VSBW. If you want to argue on AFB or OBW where "High 1-A+" exists as a bracket, that's a different conversation but on this topic specifically, the evidence doesn't get you past High 1-A for anyone in the verse.

But I do believe the law of identity can reach h1A+ as yes I'm kinda of a glazer but I'm more honest if I say so myself if you think otherwise akuto sai still beats many of anime fiction

@BlazeISbot111
@Azertyhuuh I got my hopes up men I do wish I'll see akuto sai at h1A+

Please note this note I'm not making a argument just giving out some information that's all

If Mizuki had written one more line about TLOI existing prior to or outside the concept of story hierarchies entirely rather than just being their top you'd have a legitimate push. But he didn't, and VSBW won't infer it.

And ya I disagree with berney with most things because she larping it

If I wanted to upgrade the verse here to H1A+, no one here would be able to stop me no matter who they are. I'm just busy with other things right now, but once I decide that it should be upgraded, there is no one here who can stop me.

The opposing arguments here are not really valid, and I can refute them easily, but I feel like I arrived late and the thread has become somewhat chaotic.

Wesker018 · May 28, 2026

Azertyhuuh said:
If I wanted to upgrade the verse here to H1A+, no one here would be able to stop me no matter who they are. I'm just busy with other things right now, but once I decide that it should be upgraded, there is no one here who can stop me.

The opposing arguments here are not really valid, and I can refute them easily, but I feel like I arrived late and the thread has become somewhat chaotic.

AURA MONSTER

360flashlight · May 28, 2026

Azertyhuuh said:
If I wanted to upgrade the verse here to H1A+, no one here would be able to stop me no matter who they are. I'm just busy with other things right now, but once I decide that it should be upgraded, there is no one here who can stop me.

The opposing arguments here are not really valid, and I can refute them easily, but I feel like I arrived late and the thread has become somewhat chaotic.

I'll eagerly wait for it

Accelerate420 · May 28, 2026

Azertyhuuh said:
If I wanted to upgrade the verse here to H1A+, no one here would be able to stop me no matter who they are. I'm just busy with other things right now, but once I decide that it should be upgraded, there is no one here who can stop me.

The opposing arguments here are not really valid, and I can refute them easily, but I feel like I arrived late and the thread has become somewhat chaotic.

"They're not valid in fact theyre so easy to refute but I just don't wanna prove it" isn't a good look

360flashlight · May 28, 2026

KirbyFan03 · May 28, 2026

Azertyhuuh said:
If I wanted to upgrade the verse here to H1A+, no one here would be able to stop me no matter who they are. I'm just busy with other things right now, but once I decide that it should be upgraded, there is no one here who can stop me.

The opposing arguments here are not really valid, and I can refute them easily, but I feel like I arrived late and the thread has become somewhat chaotic.

I wanna learn about DKD so I can specifically challenge you XD

360flashlight · May 28, 2026

KirbyFan03 said:
I wanna learn about DKD so I can specifically challenge you XD

Read the light novel then

Only has 13 volume

KirbyFan03 · May 28, 2026

360flashlight said:
Read the light novel then

Only has 13 volume

I'm a DC fan it'd be light work

Demon King Daimao High 1A+ CRT

ExcelsisBerny

SuperNova55555

RaikiKurohane99

Azertyhuuh

ShinMaximillion

BlazeISbot111

BlazeISbot111

Vesxpura

BlazeISbot111

ExcelsisBerny

Mbpoops

ApostolUmbrei

Quintessence_PE

AloseVQ

SuperNova55555

Azertyhuuh

Vesxpura

ApostolUmbrei

ShinMaximillion

SuperNova55555

Mbpoops

Vesxpura

SkyBlade6635

Livinmeme

ApostolUmbrei

360flashlight

ExcelsisBerny

360flashlight

Azertyhuuh

Wesker018

360flashlight

Accelerate420

360flashlight

KirbyFan03

360flashlight

KirbyFan03

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