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Punch Out!!! - Revisions and some upgrades

Mr. Bambu said:
In regards to speed: I didn't see it questioned there, but why are you using 60 FPS? I doubt Punch-Out was 60 FPS, our baseline assumption is 25 FPS, and no reason was really given for that value.
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The Wii version is 60fps and NES is seemingly the same also even tho it may not look like it.
Here's a more higher res video and try to compare any of the 60fps options with 480p or lower. You'll see that 30fps will look off putting and be missing frames.
 
Rex_Eckles said:
No, Super Macho Man is one of the last opponents in the game, but the rationale is that there's no indication that Little Mac gets so much stronger as to not warrant downscaling. I get if that's weak.

However, for Great Tiger, he's a relatively early opponent AND I'm pretty sure there's no indication Little Mac gets faster through training, at least not in the same way as strength.
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I was under the impression the difference is pretty big? The OP points out Glass Joe losing hundreds of times, compared to the upper echelons of the scaling chain.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
I was under the impression the difference is pretty big? The OP points out Glass Joe losing hundreds of times, compared to the upper echelons of the scaling chain.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, although that could be for a lot of reasons. Other boxers in the same circuit have better records, yet all of them can go down in not dissimilar numbers of hits.

I'll admit the downscaling might be a stretch especially for the minor circuit.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
In regards to speed: I didn't see it questioned there, but why are you using 60 FPS? I doubt Punch-Out was 60 FPS, our baseline assumption is 25 FPS, and no reason was really given for that value.
Click to expand...
I suppose this has been dealt by rex_eckles already, so i'll skip this
Mr. Bambu said:
In regards to abilities: Glass Joe's thing isn't Supernatural Willpower.
Click to expand...
ok
Mr. Bambu said:
The bear guy should just have Limited Animal Manip and not Social Influencing, Social Influencing is not necessary if we give him the supernatural ability to communicate with the bear (which he seems to have).
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ok
Mr. Bambu said:
Agree that Great Tiger's thing is pretty weak evidence and would be in favor of removing 4th Wall Awareness.
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ok
Mr. Bambu said:
Feel similarly with Don Flamenco's, he's looking into the perspective, yes, but nothing implies he is literally speaking to the player. He's just monologuing.
Click to expand...
Don says:

"Don't be fooled! I'm much harder in the game!"

Likely, talking to the reader, referring to the fact that he's aware of being a character in a game
Mr. Bambu said:
A lot of the scaling has no explanation so I feel a bit underequipped to approve or disapprove of it.
Click to expand...
Ok so, anything specific?
 
LandonTheGuy said:
come on man....
Click to expand...
buddy, I am diseased and hobbling about my home like a cripple

you didn't give me any explanations on scaling, I can't request anything specific since I'm unfamiliar; working with what Rex told me before, I disagree with the OP for now.

Neutral on Don's 4th Wall Awareness.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
buddy, I am diseased and hobbling about my home like a cripple
Click to expand...
Mb mr.bambu, i forgot that you were sick, i apprishiate that you are still going out of your way to be here.
Mr. Bambu said:
you didn't give me any explanations on scaling, I can't request anything specific since I'm unfamiliar; working with what Rex told me before, I disagree with the OP for now.
Click to expand...

We start by the NESS scaling at the moment, we do take this game as a different continuity as the Wii one (as we do not have any proof that Ness and Wii are the same timeline, exept for this commercial), we scale everyone to everyone because there isn't much proof that Mac became so much stronger between circuits, after losing Mac can go back to the bottom of his circuit where he will have to fight previus opponents(or retire witch will make Mac go back to the first fight in game) and there are some codes that allow you to go back and do previus fights while mantaining his current score.

Wii scaling: contender mode , this is the classic campain of the wii game, everyone scales to everyone as Mac can still go back and fight previus fighters.

Wii scaling: title defense , this is after contender mode and everyone at this point underwent some kind of training or got other ghear that made them stronger, everyone scales to everyone as Mac can still go back and fight previus fighters.

Wii scaling: last stand , this key only applies for 2 characters (Donkey Kong and Little Mac), other characters instead get a split key "title defense/last stand", Mac fights all of his opponents and if he gets knocked down 3 times he retires, Mac and Kong pretty much gets an "At least" for both speed and ap as he can now deal better with all of his previus opponents.
 
Last edited:
i gotta ask. about the great tiger scaling, are we assuming he created the afterimages with raw speed? because while it is possible to me it seems he is using magic more than super speed. even in the comic he is said to use his powers ''to appear in two places at once''. i do agree to the calculations but i do not think that anyone would scale to his spinning magic.

in the nes version he always stops for a second in front of mac and throws a punch. so mark naturally has time to react when tiger stops using his magic to spin.

in the wii version the punches that come mac's way are clearly not as fast as the movement he does with his magic to leave afterimages

personally id say these feats should only scale to tigers travel/movement speed and itd have to be noted thats while hes using magic

edit: macs punching speed is clearly depicted as inferior to tigers magic spin since tiger vanishes before mac can seemingly even react to it. which does go back to the point on how he stops using his magic spin when hes about to punch mark, which is the only real reason mac can hit him.
 
Slav said:
i gotta ask. about the great tiger scaling, are we assuming he created the afterimages with raw speed? because while it is possible to me it seems he is using magic more than super speed. even in the comic he is said to use his powers ''to appear in two places at once''. i do agree to the calculations but i do not think that anyone would scale to his spinning magic.

in the nes version he always stops for a second in front of mac and throws a punch. so mark naturally has time to react when tiger stops using his magic to spin.

in the wii version the punches that come mac's way are clearly not as fast as the movement he does with his magic to leave afterimages

personally id say these feats should only scale to tigers travel/movement speed and itd have to be noted thats while hes using magic

edit: macs punching speed is clearly depicted as inferior to tigers magic spin since tiger vanishes before mac can seemingly even react to it. which does go back to the point on how he stops using his magic spin when hes about to punch mark, which is the only real reason mac can hit him.
Click to expand...
I think it can be boiled down as gameplay as why would he willingly slow down do Mac speed? to make it easier for mac to hit him?

I also want to point out that he does alternate between super speed and teleporting, as great tiger does teleport between a punch from mac and his punch to confuse the adversary.
 
Are we still going with Great Tiger’s speed or no? Slav made a good case for A) Mac no scaling to it and B) being teleportation, and therefore KE will be unusable.
 
Rex_Eckles said:
Are we still going with Great Tiger’s speed or no? Slav made a good case for A) Mac no scaling to it and B) being teleportation, and therefore KE will be unusable.
Click to expand...
NESS

No it's still usable, i doubt that great tiger literally teleports that if he doesn't have any benefict on it (as he stays still during the attack, and wouldn't be able to perform a stronger attack if he just stays still).

Also Great Tiger does that attack we can see both the difference between him teleporting (as he just teleports there) and using his magic punch (actually performs moviment in this case instead).

WII
This applies here too (to a more clear extent) as this is teleportation while this is speed, we do also see other fighters leave similar afterimages effects during their attacks.

so yeah, it is usable
 
LandonTheGuy said:
NESS

No it's still usable, i doubt that great tiger literally teleports that if he doesn't have any benefict on it (as he stays still during the attack, and wouldn't be able to perform a stronger attack if he just stays still).

Also Great Tiger does that attack we can see both the difference between him teleporting (as he just teleports there) and using his magic punch (actually performs moviment in this case instead).

WII
This applies here too (to a more clear extent) as this is teleportation while this is speed, we do also see other fighters leave similar afterimages effects during their attacks.

so yeah, it is usable
Click to expand...
Alrighty then!
 
LandonTheGuy said:
bump, also you good now?
Click to expand...
being sick left me with some sort of chronic conditions that I'm looking into getting a proper doctor's appointment for, but my eyes are no longer exuding discharge and my body is no longer totally self destructing, at least, though I have no recollection of what we were doing here. I suppose I can try to read through again.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
being sick left me with some sort of chronic conditions that I'm looking into getting a proper doctor's appointment for, but my eyes are no longer exuding discharge and my body is no longer totally self destructing,
Click to expand...
man i feel u, one time i had dyarrea (idk how to write that in inglish) so strong i started defecating blood.

Mr. Bambu said:
at least, though I have no recollection of what we were doing here. I suppose I can try to read through again.
Click to expand...
Yes you were about to evaluate this thread without doing a single question.

No seriusly, you wanted to check the scaling:

LandonTheGuy said:
Mb mr.bambu, i forgot that you were sick, i apprishiate that you are still going out of your way to be here.


We start by the NESS scaling at the moment, we do take this game as a different continuity as the Wii one (as we do not have any proof that Ness and Wii are the same timeline, exept for this commercial), we scale everyone to everyone because there isn't much proof that Mac became so much stronger between circuits, after losing Mac can go back to the bottom of his circuit where he will have to fight previus opponents(or retire witch will make Mac go back to the first fight in game) and there are some codes that allow you to go back and do previus fights while mantaining his current score.

Wii scaling: contender mode , this is the classic campain of the wii game, everyone scales to everyone as Mac can still go back and fight previus fighters.

Wii scaling: title defense , this is after contender mode and everyone at this point underwent some kind of training or got other ghear that made them stronger, everyone scales to everyone as Mac can still go back and fight previus fighters.

Wii scaling: last stand , this key only applies for 2 characters (Donkey Kong and Little Mac), other characters instead get a split key "title defense/last stand", Mac fights all of his opponents and if he gets knocked down 3 times he retires, Mac and Kong pretty much gets an "At least" for both speed and ap as he can now deal better with all of his previus opponents.
Click to expand...
this one
 
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