(2 STAFF NEED) Genshin Low 2-C Downgrade

[Weaver261]

I took a break for a while and while I am gone, I saw neuvillete Low 2-C? What is this bs? I checked the upgrade thread, it was filled was misinformations and yet it passed? What's going on? So, I will debunk why genshin Low 2-C is not possible for now and why it's not universal in this thread. Please read it carefully before replying for the members. I don't want this thread to be derailed and stretched into 11 pages. When that happens, the mods will have a hard time trying to evaluate and end up with passing misinformations. Let's start.

Istaorth 4D
Istaorth got 4D due to her being the concept of time and being able to influence universally. The problem with this is that Istaorth is a shadow of Primordial One and even the Primordial one is not capable of influencing the whole universe just like the supporters of upgrade thread claimed.
In the recent upgrade thread, they claimed that Musical Mundana aka Universal Music is controlled by Primordial One as they are "The Master Of Fortuna". And they presented this scan about Musical Mundana being universal.

Spoiler: Musicial Munadana

...The Musica Mundana is the music of origin. It is the beginning and end of all music; from it does all spring, and to it shall all return. False and true celestial signs (namely, the inner and outer, lower and upper astrological signs. Euergetia will provide a detailed explanation of this section), the turning of the seasons and passing of time, the defined elements, everything in the universe operations according to the order of music......

Here, special attention should be paid to the connection between the Musica Mundana and Fortuna. The latter includes the former, while the former does not equate to the latter. Any music with specifications similar to Fortuna can be called Musica Mundana, for it itself would be equal to an entire world......Just as Cassiodor taught you before, the "Fortuna" we speak of here and the Sebastos's have no... ...latter is named for the former, while the former is the "rules" that governs all things, the "fate" of which slaves speak......

Musica Humana is the music of the world of mortals. The music of mortals and gods are no different from one another, and both can be classified in this category, for their essence is that of the harmony produced by the Musica Mundana striking the Quality of the Soul......

Imagine a harp, where every physical entity in the world corresponds to a single one of its fine strings... Magnificent music comes not from a single string, but the resonance of all strings... This is the music we call Musica Mundana......

As your fingers glide across the ends of the strings, the middle section will vibrate along with it, creating a sound most pleasing. However, you did not touch the middle of the strings at all, and the reason it sounds is simply because it's attached to......

What I must emphasize to you is that, just as in the string metaphor, the music of mortals and gods can both be played, just like you can choose to play the middle of the strings, and not the ends. And it is for this reason that the Musica Humana can replace the Musica Mundana. We will discuss that in detail later......

The Musica Instrumentalis is the most fundamental music, and there is no need to elaborate on it. Even slaves can understand......

Next, I must elaborate for you the nature of Phobos, and why the musicless cannot be regardless as humans equal to us... Based on morality and rationality...

In the first glance, this looks legit since the scan talks about universal music and governing universal laws and what not. But this is wrong. Musicial Mundana in a nutshell is explained in the scan like this

Imagine a harp, where every physical entity in the world corresponds to a single one of its fine strings... Magnificent music comes not from a single string, but the resonance of all strings... This is the music we call Musica Mundana......

The claim is that Musica Mundana is controlled by Primordial One and thus Primordial One can influence entire universe's fate. This is obviously wrong since Primordial One has no control whatsoever over the universe as the universe is slowly dying and the abyss trying to get into Teyvat. Primordial One best move was to place a barrier called Fake Sky to protect Teyvat from outer cosmo. If Primordial One is truly capable of controlling musica munadan to control everything in the universe, this wouldn't happen.

Musica Mundana is not like universal musical order like Fontainians belived. They think fate works on universal level and that's wrong because Teyvat has its own law and its fate is controlled by Primordial One through the fake sky.

In ancient Fontaine, some thought that Fortuna, which ruled the world, was woven from countless fibers, like the strings of a harp.
- Lightless Silk String's description

"Can fortune tellers read the skeins of fate?"
The fortune teller then explained the underlying principles. Put simply, it's something like this:
In our world, the stars are the heavenly strings by which humans are bound..
Astrologists and diviners are, in essence, performing weight calculations on the sky-shroud,
- Little witch and the undying fire vol 2

In the world of Teyvat, Constellations are fate. Everything is fated in the stars hanged in the fake sky.

Do you know about constellations? Astrologers believe that the patterns of the stars map out the destiny of Vision bearers — past, present, and future, everything is written in the stars.
- Mona voice line : Something to share

That's why Primordial One is called as "Master of Fortuna". The universe is also fated to die.

"I have seen the lightless end, tearing through star clusters like a spindle among silken threads."
"I have seen how the cold tide of chaos drowns out all songs, so that good and evil alike vanish into silence."
"And yet, my kind, gentle king, will you still refuse to abandon your people?"
"Forsake this world, fated for ruin, and journey with me beyond the stars."
- Finale of the deep galleries : Voyager to Nibelung

Charting countless peoples and civilizations fated to perish, pondering the ultimate truths of the cosmos in that eternal darkness.

"O friend from a distant world, I thank you for imparting these truths from beyond the skies."
"But though in your eyes they may seem ignorant creatures, to me, they are the very meaning of this universe."
"If the tide of oblivion must come, then let my bones be the bulwark that shields this realm."

As the universe gradually grew dim, and all stars and stars known as suns were extinguished one by one, everyone agreed to call it the Star of Scorpio.

"Many stars across the cosmos have gone out. I do not know how much time is left," Octavia said, "so I wanted to come back to see you."

Maybe the universe has been constantly trying to infiltrate Teyvat, or maybe a higher power created borders to protect this world.

There's literally nothing outside of Teyvat but Abyssal Energies
But Primordial One wanted to prevent the entropic destruction of Teyvat. That's why they created the fake sky barrier from his egg shell.

The Primordial One may have been Phanes. It had wings and a crown, and was birthed from an egg, androgynous in nature. But for the world to be created, the egg's shell had to be broken. However, Phanes, the Primordial One, used the eggshell to separate the "universe" and the "microcosm of the world."
- Before Sun and Moon

Realistically speaking, however, if a profound universe full of life exists, why hasn't any of that life made contact with Teyvat?
Maybe the universe has been constantly trying to infiltrate Teyvat, or maybe a higher power created borders to protect this world.
- Narwhal Description

But in other worlds, the subjects of astrological study are the solar ecliptic energies, the various lunar energies of the satellites, the will-energy of the celestial rulers of the planets, the scattered interference energy of distant stars, and the dark energy that suffuses the pitch-black cosmos. Of course, it's not like these things don't exert influence on our planet — they have merely been greatly weakened by a giant sky-shroud.
- Little witch and the undying fire vol 2

Moreover the whole fortuna musica mundana thing is concluded as wrong belief and falsehood of ancient people by newer generation's research.

Regarding "Fortuna"... Myth, proverbs, and poetry are all that we have compiled so far in connection to "Fortuna." These findings deviate significantly from initial expectations... At best, they could be described as vague inferences and a priori assertions, bereft of quantifiability or scientific rigor. They appear exceedingly rudimentary and primitive when compared to the world-formula. Furthermore......As expected, this seems to be an attempt to make up for some shortfall. The ancients even made no small amount of errors in their selection of materials. This was unavoidable... Aside from analysis of the will and the "Seal of Chymical Marriage," there was hardly any utility to be found... When faced with the fact that the ancients were deceived by such falsehoods for a thousand years, one can only wonder if it was a matter of faith or folly...

Now it's pretty clear that universal fate and Teyvat's fate are totally different and Primordial One can only control the fate of Teyvat through his egg shell aka Fake Sky.
Now that we know Primordial One can't influence the entire universe, Istaroth can't also influence the entire universe and her concept is only local to Teyvat. This is more of Limited Time Manipulation than Higher Dimensional Existence. If Istaroth is capable of influnecing the entire universe with her time concept, she can easily change the timeline of this universe to a timeline where the fated destruction doesn't exist. But obviously she can't.

Istaorth is called as "Time" itself by the local of Teyvat but this is not enough indicator for HDE. Personally, I believed we will get tier 2 shades in the future arcs but as of right now, it's really vague and justifications are simply wrong. As far as I am aware being "Time" itself, being transcendent and being higher than reality are not accepted as explicit proof for HDE. Now that we know her time concept is only local to Teyvat planet and not universal, I will say Tier 2 is not possible right now.

Conclusion, Shades should have 5-B scaling for being able influnce entire planet. And the dragon soverigns also have their scaling back to 5-B again since it's obviously in the lore they are not capable of influncing entire universe or even 4D. (Chain scaling is a whack)

Edited - I also want to mention that the stories of Genshin Impact is told from the perspectives of the locales and that's why it's hard to be consistent among each factions' beliefs. So basically, the world of people inside Teyvat is not reliable unless it's also supported by the one who knows more about the universe like Hexenzirkel Witches.

Agree : @Voidnether @Setsuna_tenma @Yanina92 @Robo432343 @PedjaTarzan @Puppet43 @InfinityTurtleHD @Giannysmag @Avengershows @Shey @Bsk_lyree @IStar0thh @Reiner04 and @TWILIGHT-OP (Istaroth only L2-C through Environmental Destruction)
Disagree: @AsterReal @Furina003 @LoudestProcedure @Sahlwrld @Saqphire @Super_Nova @AyOgUyS @Breakdown @Shiroiyo
Neutral :

Please read before replying. Thanks for reading.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Hmm intersting.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

LMFAO. THAT QUICK?

 

[Voidnether]

Yeah I already agreed with this, the universal law that they brought there too is taken out of context, because we had Cataclysm being stated to turn the universe upside down despite it only affecting Teyvat at best

 

[Giannysmag]

LMFAO. THAT QUICK?

The Genshin opponent works in mysterious ways

Anyway gonna read this later but I'll probably agree

 

[AthelChan]

LMFAO. THAT QUICK?

It is that sus bro this verse is never beating the not universal tier bro.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

It is that sus bro this verse is never beating the not universal tier bro.

Maybe around 8.0 patch

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

agree

getting real tired of genshin wank been getting worse even after the biased mod got banned.

 

[Saqphire]

Neutral + following, but would like to refute this part specifically

I also want to mention that the stories of Genshin Impact is told from the perspectives of the locales and that's why it's hard to be consistent among each factions' beliefs. So basically, the world of people inside Teyvat is not reliable unless it's also supported by the one who knows more about the universe like Hexenzirkel Witches.

Except lore in fantasy verses like this is always told from the perspective of locals such as books, scrolls, stories in-verse. Denying all of that writing and world building made by the creators just because they made it come from a certain perspective is narratively incoherent

 

[Voidnether]

Neutral + following, but would like to refute this part specifically

Except lore in fantasy verses like this is always told from the perspective of locals such as books, scrolls, stories in-verse. Denying all of that writing and world building made by the creators just because they made it come from a certain perspective is narratively incoherent

That's why there are some books that become the vital part of the story, like Perinheri which was acknowledged in the end of Act 3 or the infamous Before Sun & Moon or the one made by the Scions, what he meant to say is that if the book is clearly just science fiction or that they just don't have any lore significance

It depends on the Narrator and how reliable they are, if they're shown to not be reliable in any capacity nor if they're a major character in the lore, no one's taking it at face value. Genshin is unscalable if we can't use the books as the main source, it's over bro

 

[Saqphire]

That's why there are some books that become the vital part of the story, like Perinheri which was acknowledged in the end of Act 3 or the infamous Before Sun & Moon or the one made by the Scions, what he meant to say is that if the book is clearly just science fiction or that they just don't have any lore significance

Yeah, then he should discredit each book/story/scroll case by case by disproving why one specific story should be reliable, not make an all-out claim saying "books are perspective based so cant use them lol"

It depends on the Narrator and how reliable they are, if they're shown to not be reliable in any capacity nor if they're a major character in the lore, no one's taking it at face value. Genshin is unscalable if we can't use the books as the main source, it's over bro

Sure but minor characters in the lore can give lore dumps though?? This is also seen in verses like Genshin (e.g. TES) and them being minor characters doesn't discredit their words at all

 

[Yanina92]

100% Agree

 

[LoudestProcedure]

before low 2C they were 4-C so they should be there instead of 5-B but either way agree

 

[Voidnether]

Yeah, then he should discredit each book/story/scroll case by case by disproving why one specific story should be reliable, not make an all-out claim saying "books are perspective based so cant use them lol"

Sure but minor characters in the lore can give lore dumps though?? This is also seen in verses like Genshin (e.g. TES) and them being minor characters doesn't discredit their words at all

99% of the time it's not (You would know this if you do daily commissions), if they did then it would be classified as major character, those with World Quest are classified as that in their respective region as a major character in my perspective and I played TES: The characters/books there, it's literally the 1:1 scenario as Genshin Impact where you know, a regular NPC conversation in itself doesn't contribute much or do any lore bombs at all (When I played Skyrim, there's only some books that's important and it's because they pertained to Alduin/Paarthurnax, you get the point here)

The categorization is literally simple, if the books brought up major plot points or it had a major character involved, it's important. Other than that, it's basically just your average stuff that barely has any contributions to the lore at all (like their daily activities, and so on) because Ella Musk definitely isn't important or Garcia lmao

 

[Furina003]

world in eggshell have the universe size.

Though there is no meaning in this world within an eggshell,
The "fortune" we speak of is not some false metaphor,
In 14 billion "years" of darkness,
It is the sum of all that is destined to happen and all that never will.

Partings, encounters, and partings once more,
Birth, destruction, and birth yet again,
In the darkness of 93 billion "years" of light,
All existence holds meaning unknown to any,
Without which this universe would seem too solitary.

This is the "fortune" that divination cards speak of,
Or that which cannot be spoken.

The "Wheel of Fortune" turns ever onwards,
But there are things which are never forgotten,

in this text it clearly speaks of universal destiny

I don't understand what we're arguing here. What the point to your CRT?
Can you prove that mundane music isn't universal? Even though the text literally states it as universal?

 

[Robo432343]

hmm
Agree with OP

 

[Saqphire]

99% of the time it's not (You would know this if you do daily commissions), if they did then it would be classified as major character, those with World Quest are classified as that in their respective region as a major character in my perspective and I played TES: The characters/books there, it's literally the 1:1 scenario as Genshin Impact where you know, a regular NPC conversation in itself doesn't contribute much or do any lore bombs at all (When I played Skyrim, there's only some books that's important and it's because they pertained to Alduin/Paarthurnax, you get the point here)

The categorization is literally simple, if the books brought up major plot points or it had a major character involved, it's important. Other than that, it's basically just your average stuff that barely has any contributions to the lore at all (like their daily activities, and so on) because Ella Musk definitely isn't important or Garcia lmao

If that's the case, then yeah it's not that the minor character is an unreliable source because they are a minor character (saying that is fallacious), it's that minor characters in Genshin don't give important lore dumps in the first place thus their information isn't needed. That part, I can actually agree with

 

[Weaver261]

world in eggshell have the universe size.

This picture of the planet should be enough to debunk that
Just because the text said "universe", you shouldn't take that face value without counting other factors in.

 

[Weaver261]

If that's the case, then yeah it's not that the minor character is an unreliable source because they are a minor character (saying that is fallacious), it's that minor characters in Genshin don't give important lore dumps in the first place thus their information isn't needed. That part, I can actually agree with

It's my fault to include naunce parts in the crt. I hope we can stop this topic here and actually discuss about the downgrade instead so that the thread won't get derailed

 

[LoudestProcedure]

This picture of the planet should be enough to debunk that
Just because the text said "universe", you shouldn't take that face value without counting other factors in.

Ok I agree with the crt and everything but how does this debunk it?

 

[Weaver261]

Ok I agree with the crt and everything but how does this debunk it?

This picture is from an animated short where it shows skirk arriving into Teyvat from outer cosmo. As you can see, it's approximately the same size as a planet you would see in the cosmo (you can compare it to skirk's size). The red thing is the egg shell aka fake sky.

 

[Furina003]

This picture of the planet should be enough to debunk that
Just because the text said "universe", you shouldn't take that face value without counting other factors in.

a picture without any explanation doesn't prove anything

try to explain if it is a planet, how can a planet have 2 different suns? outside the fake sky and inside the fake sky each have their own sun


The text of the lunar arcanum is actually quite clear that the world inside the eggshell has universal size

 

[Voidnether]

a picture without any explanation doesn't prove anything

try to explain if it is a planet, how can a planet have 2 different suns? outside the fake sky and inside the fake sky each have their own sun


The text of the lunar arcanum is actually quite clear that the world inside the eggshell has universal dimensions.

The Sun created by Nibelung is a miniature one, it's similar to that of Adeptus. There's statements on my CM1 downgrade in which Neuvillette, Lumine & Skirk said Teyvat is a planet, Before Sun & Moon also said it's "microcosm of the world" which if taken literally, Teyvat is only a microcosm at best. There's a web event during the Moon introduction and it showcases the solar system, since we know that the False Sky is only outside of Teyvat (Columbina stated that Teyvat has like borders, which prevents Columbina from harnessing its powers from the moon and it's the False Sky)

My point, the moon and the sun outside of Teyvat is beyond the False Sky's borders, this includes the solar system that governs Teyvat -> The terminology eggshell only applies to Teyvat, and not for the moons, the sun or even the solar system that governs it

 

[Saqphire]

The text of the lunar arcanum is actually quite clear that the world inside the eggshell has universal size

So Teyvat, the planet is actually a multi-layered universe???

 

[SuperNova55555]

This is so exorbitantly funny lmao.

While I have no clue on stuff regarding the Music shit (I’ll leave that to the supporters), it should be mentioned that the Abyss taking over the universe doesn’t mean much—it would just scale it to Phanes or smthn.

As far as I am aware being "Time" itself, being transcendent and being higher than reality are not accepted as explicit proof for HDE.

Also, I went on extensively on the thread on how this can be the case with the surrounding context (though, context which might be wrong now).

 

[Voidnether]

This is so exorbitantly funny lmao.

While I have no clue on stuff regarding the Music shit (I’ll leave that to the supporters), it should be mentioned that the Abyss taking over the universe doesn’t mean much—it would just scale it to Phanes or smthn.


Also, I went on extensively on the thread on how this can be the case with the surrounding context (though, context which might be wrong now).

Why would the Abyss taking over the universe makes Phanes scale to it? Are we serious rn?

 

[SuperNova55555]

Why would the Abyss taking over the universe makes Phanes scale to it? Are we serious rn?

You heavily misunderstand my point. I’m saying that the Abyss taking over the universe wouldn’t impact Phanes’ universal scaling. It would merely be equivalent to him in tier.

 

[Voidnether]

You heavily misunderstand my point. I’m saying that the Abyss taking over the universe wouldn’t impact Phanes’ universal scaling. It would merely be equivalent to him in tier.

I thought I already explained the sole reason Phanes invading Teyvat is to find an antithesis for the Abyss, it being universal in terms of scaling would contradict the fact that Phanes actually had to create the 4 Shades to invade the 7 Sovereign and Nibelung, that's at best planetary (Nibelung is born on Teyvat btw)

Like the Abyss was an universal threat, Phanes came to Teyvat (previously called Light Realm) since the elements there are the counter to the Abyss that invades the universe, which is why he broke it down into the 7 elements (other than making the elements actually suitable for humanity to live in, obviously)

The problem with anything universal here, it would literally be assumed that these are able to affect the universe that was enveloped by the Abyss (I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that it's not Surtalogi that enveloped the entire universe, but rather it was already enveloped way before the 5 Sinners even exist)

Like, if Phanes is actually capable of doing that, why would he even go to Teyvat to find an antithesis for the Abyss? That's my question

You don't expect an universal being to run away from an universal threat, in which the universal being had to make the 4 Shades to literally help him fight against Nibelung + 7 Sovereign, that's like the innate race that rules Teyvat back then

This is why I disagreed with the entire notion that Phanes is universal, because, he's only a refugee in Genshin Impact that tries to survive against the Abyss, he was literally traumatized everytime someone tried to bring Forbidden Knowledge (Deepest part of the Abyss) to Teyvat, he had to use Celestial Nails just for him to literally sleep for 500 years since he fought Nibelung that came back Forbidden Knowledge and Phanes is still asleep as of now

This is obviously not the case with 1-A beings, against 1-A threat: Oh yeah, he's not 1-A because he can't just nuke the 1-A threat with his AP when we have Yumiella just existing as a regular human being to be 1-A (the weakest 1-A in the wiki, because destroying the smallest 1-A object already warrants you that tier lmao) when we established that Abyss is able to envelop Universal+ sized universe, and at the same time established that Phanes's physical tier is also Low 2-C because he fought the Sovereign which also scales to that level physically too (Like Apep, for example)

So, yeah, no, Phanes definitely would not scale to the Abyss enveloping said Universal+ sized universe, this is the entire plot of Genshin btw.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

getting real tired of genshin wank been getting worse even after the biased mod got banned.

We don't dig old graves here.

 

[SuperNova55555]

I thought I already explained the sole reason Phanes invading Teyvat is to find an antithesis for the Abyss, it being universal in terms of scaling would contradict the fact that Phanes actually had to create the 4 Shades to invade the 7 Sovereign and Nibelung, that's at best planetary (Nibelung is born on Teyvat btw)

Like the Abyss was an universal threat, Phanes came to Teyvat (previously called Light Realm) since the elements there are the counter to the Abyss that invades the universe, which is why he broke it down into the 7 elements (other than making the elements actually suitable for humanity to live in, obviously)

The problem with anything universal here, it would literally be assumed that these are able to affect the universe that was enveloped by the Abyss (I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that it's not Surtalogi that enveloped the entire universe, but rather it was already enveloped way before the 5 Sinners even exist)

Like, if Phanes is actually capable of doing that, why would he even go to Teyvat to find an antithesis for the Abyss? That's my question

You don't expect an universal being to run away from an universal threat, in which the universal being had to make the 4 Shades to literally help him fight against Nibelung + 7 Sovereign, that's like the innate race that rules Teyvat back then

This is why I disagreed with the entire notion that Phanes is universal, because, he's only a refugee in Genshin Impact that tries to survive against the Abyss, he was literally traumatized everytime someone tried to bring Forbidden Knowledge (Deepest part of the Abyss) to Teyvat, he had to use Celestial Nails just for him to literally sleep for 500 years since he fought Nibelung that came back Forbidden Knowledge and Phanes is still asleep as of now

This is obviously not the case with 1-A beings, against 1-A threat: Oh yeah, he's not 1-A because he can't just nuke the 1-A threat with his AP when we have Yumiella just existing as a regular human being to be 1-A (the weakest 1-A in the wiki, because destroying the smallest 1-A object already warrants you that tier lmao) when we established that Abyss is able to envelop Universal+ sized universe, and at the same time established that Phanes's physical tier is also Low 2-C because he fought the Sovereign which also scales to that level physically too (Like Apep, for example)

So, yeah, no, Phanes definitely would not scale to the Abyss enveloping said Universal+ sized universe, this is the entire plot of Genshin btw.

I dunno about genshin lore ts deep ngl. But I’m not really seeing anything damming. It’s not like 2 characters of the same tier can’t have extremely varying power levels. Also Teyvat’s elements being a counter to the Abyss in some qualitative sense is not really a problem. It’s like saying that darkness is universal because it envelops the universe, so then a light bulb must be universal because it can illuminate some of that darkness.

And if Abyss is just some corruption then AP isn’t even necessarily applicable for it, so Phanes having Low 2-C AP and getting hax’d out by it isn’t a problem no more.

we have Yumiella just existing as a regular human being to be 1-A (the weakest 1-A in the wiki, because destroying the smallest 1-A object already warrants you that tier lmao)

She’s now tied with like hundreds of LOTM characters lel (well I guess they’d be slightly stronger [building level])

 

[Furina003]

⁸The Sun created by Nibelung is a miniature one, it's similar to that of Adeptus. There's statements on my CM1 downgrade in which Neuvillette, Lumine & Skirk said Teyvat is a planet, Before Sun & Moon also said it's "microcosm of the world" which if taken literally,

Where did it say the sun is small?

Microcosmos refers to the world of the dragons before the Primordial One recreated it.

I just need evidence to disprove that the world within the shell is not universal, while the Musika Mundana and the Lunar Arcanum texts already explain that the world within the shell is universal.

My point, the moon and the sun outside of Teyvat is beyond the False Sky's borders, this includes the solar system that governs Teyvat -> The terminology eggshell only applies to Teyvat, and not for the moons, the sun or even the solar system that governs it

Yes, fake sky is also called the border of the world, that's why there are 2 suns, outside and inside the fake sky, because these are 2 different world.

therefore skirk calls it a false universe, which has such a real vastness and majesty. there is also an real universe, the universe that lies beyond the borders of the world. So in Genshin there are really 2 universes, real and fake.

The universe created by Phanes is a universe sized 93 billion light years.
and the real universe is actually infinite in size (here, here and here) . the universe explored by surtalogi, octavia and traveler.

 

[Saqphire]

The Sun created by Nibelung is a miniature one, it's similar to that of Adeptus. There's statements on my CM1 downgrade in which Neuvillette, Lumine & Skirk said Teyvat is a planet, Before Sun & Moon also said it's "microcosm of the world" which if taken literally, Teyvat is only a microcosm at best.

What if this microcosm and the multi-layered uni stuff are both true meaning the universe beyond is just greater than teyvat (already a universe) to the point that Teyvat is considered as a microcosm???

 

[Voidnether]

I dunno about genshin lore ts deep ngl. But I’m not really seeing anything damming. It’s not like 2 characters of the same tier can’t have extremely varying power levels. Also Teyvat’s elements being a counter to the Abyss in some qualitative sense is not really a problem. It’s like saying that darkness is universal because it envelops the universe, so then a light bulb must be universal because it can illuminate some of that darkness.

And if Abyss is just some corruption then AP isn’t even necessarily applicable for it, so Phanes having Low 2-C AP and getting hax’d out by it isn’t a problem no more.


She’s now tied with like hundreds of LOTM characters lel (well I guess they’d be slightly stronger [building level])

This is why you don't shill 1-A

Where did it say the sun is small?

Microcosmos refers to the world of the dragons before the Primordial One recreated it.

I just need evidence to disprove that the world within the shell is not universal, while the Musika Mundana and the Lunar Arcanum texts already explain that the world within the shell is universal.

Yes, fake sky is also called the border of the world, that's why there are 2 suns, outside and inside the fake sky, because these are 2 different world.

therefore skirk calls it a false universe, which has such a real vastness and majesty. there is also an real universe, the universe that lies beyond the borders of the world. So in Genshin there are really 2 universes, real and fake.

The universe created by Phanes is a universe sized 93 billion light years.
and the real universe is actually infinite in size (here, here and here) . the universe explored by surtalogi, octavia

Pretty sure Phanes didn't create that universe, when all it does is just separating it and that's it

The false and real universe isn't really elaborated thoroughly on the game, though what Surtalogi implied when he said he's the strongest in the universe and that there's no one left, that's more likely to happen in the 93 billion lightyears if anything because it genuinely would took you an arbitrarily large finite amount of time to explore the universe that's "infinite" here. Octavia also said myriad of worlds or something equivalent to that, myriad in itself is just also an arbitrarily large amount of numbers that couldn't be expressed (not in the context of infinite, that is). The problem here is that, since this makes them both still within the false universe if anything: That would mean the real universe is unexplored, this is contradicted by Nibelung, but if we said that Phanes separated the 93 billion lightyears universe with the infinite sized one, it would also contradict what Before Sun & Moon said in which Phanes separated the universe from the microcosm of the world, microcosm of the world here is Teyvat and I'm pretty sure this one doesn't refer to eggshell (?) since eggshell if clicked, is just the border (False Sky) that borders Teyvat and its moon

Phanes, the Primordial One, used the eggshell to separate the "universe" and the "microcosm of the world."

Saying this because I'm actually unsure whether Surtalogi / Octavia and the Traveler actually explored the universe beyond the 93 billion lightyears, since all of them implies finite and only Nibelung is the one that's infinite. Traveler, again is countless and endless worlds but not stated "infinite" like Nibelung

We have the Low 2-C one from the real universe, because it's not "finite" in terms of the universe's age, unlike the observable universe but the only one shown to even travel that is Nibelung, so why would Phanes be comparable to the real universe?

 

[Furina003]

This is why you don't shill 1-A


Pretty sure Phanes didn't create that universe, when all it does is just separating it and that's it

The false and real universe isn't really elaborated thoroughly on the game, though what Surtalogi implied when he said he's the strongest in the universe and that there's no one left, that's more likely to happen in the 93 billion lightyears if anything because it genuinely would took you an arbitrarily large finite amount of time to explore the universe that's "infinite" here. Octavia also said myriad of worlds or something equivalent to that, myriad in itself is just also an arbitrarily large amount of numbers that couldn't be expressed (not in the context of infinite, that is). The problem here is that, since this makes them both still within the false universe if anything: That would mean the real universe is unexplored, this is contradicted by Nibelung, but if we said that Phanes separated the 93 billion lightyears universe with the infinite sized one, it would also contradict what Before Sun & Moon said in which Phanes separated the universe from the microcosm of the world, microcosm of the world here is Teyvat and I'm pretty sure this one doesn't refer to eggshell (?) since eggshell if clicked, is just the border (False Sky) that borders Teyvat and its moon



Saying this because I'm actually unsure whether Surtalogi / Octavia and the Traveler actually explored the universe beyond the 93 billion lightyears, since all of them implies finite and only Nibelung is the one that's infinite. Traveler, again is countless and endless worlds but not stated "infinite" like Nibelung

Yes, that's your belief, and it's fine, but you should at least provide proof if it's not universal.

The texts I've presented already state that it is universal, so try to find evidence to refute that.

 

[Voidnether]

Yes, that's your belief, and it's fine, but you should at least provide proof if it's not universal.

The texts I've presented already state that it is universal, so try to find evidence to refute that.

How is it my belief when I disproved Surtalogi, Octavia and the Traveler that they traveled the real universe, when all they traveled is only the false universe. The only one that actually traveled is Nibelung, and I don't see a reason why Phanes should scale to the real universe, if what you're saying is true then Phanes only scales to the false one if anything

 

[Furina003]

How is it my belief when I disproved Surtalogi, Octavia and the Traveler that they traveled the real universe, when all they traveled is only the false universe. The only one that actually traveled is Nibelung, and I don't see a reason why Phanes should scale to the real universe, if what you're saying is true then Phanes only scales to the false one if anything

So you think they're exploring inside a shell? Does that mean the shell is infinite in size?

Bro, in the Skirk trailer, it's clear they're entering the world's boundaries, not coming out from the inside.

 

[Voidnether]

So you think they're exploring inside a shell? Does that mean the shell is infinite in size?

Bro, in the Skirk trailer, it's clear they're entering the world's boundaries, not coming out from the inside.

The eggshell is what separated the universe and the microcosm of the world, pretty sure the size of the shell doesn't matter right? I mean, it's what separated the universe and Teyvat in this context

 

[Furina003]

yes and the eggshell is 93 billion light years in size, so? skirk also mentioned the universe

The eggshell is what separated the universe and the microcosm of the world, pretty sure the size of the shell doesn't matter right? I mean, it's what separated the universe and Teyvat in this context

 

[AyOgUyS]

Waiting for more args before I vote

 

[LoudestProcedure]

After seeing the response move me to disagree with the downgrade