A rivality's final resolution - Android 21 vs Kirby

[Eficiente]

Diavolo still don't have his victory over Shedinja...this isn't going to be closed any time soon.

 

[Akreious]

I think this is a matter of how would Kirby react the majority of the time? Because Android 21 Power nulls 110% of the time. I also forgo the to mention the waves are also SLEEP inducement along with the other things I said. The player's soul had to visibly wake goku's Consciousness up as well as locating goku's Soul in the first place. Where's Kirby on sleep inducement?

Edit: I don't see that on her profile. I'll make a CRT later

 

[Eficiente]

Sleep inducement has been mentioned before, along with everything you've said really. I think Cal once said that Kirby has a technique to wake-up, but I don't know the details if they aren't just mashing buttons.

 

[Akreious]

I know from the Kirby games I played, you wake up via mashing buttons xD

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I highly doubt she uses the full effects of the waves all the time...

 

[Akreious]

but she does. She turns the waves on and leaves it on. There's no "level of waves", the waves only get weaker due to Bulma perfecting her wave nullifying machine. It's on or off, and it's most definitely On here.

 

[Landon_Avery]

@The Real Cat Howard

Hey can you give your opinion on this fight?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I highly doubt she uses the full effects of the waves all the time...

Actually having played the story mode of the game for myself....she does. That's literally the entire plotpoint of the waves. The user's soul is sealed and thus a human soul is needed to draw out their full power. She has the waves active at all times. Only thing that helps is Bulma's machine. However, Kirby lacks Bulma's machine.

 

[Eficiente]

Pfs. Who needs a soul?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well it's more of his soul is sealed within his body with him also not being able to access his powers without outside interference.

 

[Eficiente]

iirc DB's characters' souls gave them their power there.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No, they need help from artificial souls and the human soul to use their powers. They themselves couldn't do anything. This was shown muliple times when the likes of Cell tried to kill Bulma.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

As we see here, the moment the artificial souls were removed, they could not use their powers.

 

[Akreious]

In order for one to regain consciousness against the waves, you must link or get an artifical (Our) soul to possess the character. Even then, the player couldn't actually bring Goku out and only until Bulma created the wave nullifier did Goku even come back to reality.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not entirely my point. If Kirby remains conscious, which given the things that I read from the sites reviewing the game imply that he will, then 21 loses. Weakening does nothing because Kirby has 0 AP compared to her. She doesn't hit him, Kirby eats her, he wins. She hits him, he dies, he becomes a ghost, he possesses her, he wins.

Okay, I watched the first minute of the game, and know what you're talking about. She's in a fight. Not away from combat. Unless you're implying that before the match starts—which is beyond the belief of unfair—-she already activated the waves, that's not gonna happen mid-fight.

 

[Akreious]

Literally all she needs to do is press a button at the beginning of the fight... Unless you're now restricting a defining part of what makes Android 21 so dangerous in the game.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Um, no. I'm saying that's not standard equipment. We actually see her fight, and it's nothing like that. At all.

For an analogy, am I to assume Rick always comes with his time stop machine, or Batman with prep?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Well otherwise this becomes a mismatch. I haven't played through the Android 21 saga so I don't know if she has a portable button.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In her defense, I think it's portable. But then again, so is the Zen'ō button. Or Rick's time stop button. And...you get the point.

 

[Akreious]

We see her fight and she never needs to turn on the machine because she never turned it off when she turned it on. She later eats the remote to ensure that Goku and Co never manages to turn the machine off. If you assume 21 doesn't have her waves, that's A) removing a defining feature of her and B) Suggesting she doesn't have something when it's on her page and makes up at least 3 of her abilities. Your point that we see her fight and it's nothing like that at all, makes no sense. She never turned off the machine and therefore never needed to turn it back on during a fight.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Were the waves active in the realm of the Kai's? I think so.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Akr. Not my problem. If it's not she'd do in a fight, then c'est la vie.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Basically meaning this is a mismatch seeing as 21 lacks her most dangerous weapon.

 

[Eficiente]

I'm still confused about what would the waves do to Kirby's weird body & soul, but should I create special rules or something now?

 

[Akreious]

Yeah. The waves were able to affect Goku and Co even after Goku used IT to travel to the Sacred world of the Kais (Where Supreme Kai is at).

@Cal

But it is. There's literally NO evidence she won't simply press a button to activate the machine should it be turned off. Not trying to be rude, but your arguement is "Because she didn't do it during a fight, she won't here!" Completely ignoring that she never needed to and even swallowed the remote to ensure that the heroes are unable to turn it off, showing that she acknowledges that it's a huge advantage and would prefer to have its effects on rather than leave it off during a fight.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'm still confused about what would the waves do to Kirby's weird body & soul, but should I create special rules or something now?

His soul would be sealed inside his body and unless he gets outside help from an artificial soul or a human soul, he's dead.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Problem is, my argument is still one that's backed up by what happened. There's a difference between activating it mid-fight and keeping something that's already on on. Think Piccolo eating Kami as a comparison to 21 eating the remote.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Problem is, my argument is still one that's backed up by what happened. There's a difference between activating it mid-fight and keeping something that's already on on. Think Piccolo eating Kami as a comparison to 21 eating the remote.

No...it isn't. Kami and Piccolo have no comparison here.

 

[Eficiente]

His soul would be sealed inside his body and unless he gets outside help from an artificial soul or a human soul, he's dead.

Why is Kirby's soul important when Kirby's body has life on his own?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because at the same time his abilities will be nullified completely.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

DB villain eats item that DB Hero wants to make it harder to obtain and foil villain's plans.

Regardless, still, my point still stands. She's never used it as a combat applicable item. If she were prepped, that's be a different story, but a random encounter? No, because she's predisposed to use fighting skills in a normal brawl, which will be her downfall.

 

[Akreious]

Cal, no offence, but that's downright stupid. She's never needed to use it as a combat applicable item because SHE NEVER TURNED IT OFF. you have NO evidence that she WONT turn it on during a fight because again, SHE NEVER NEEDED TO. Her eating the remote only solidified that she recognizes the advantage the waves give and would rather eat the remote to remove almost all chances of our heroes turning the machine off. Your evidence is literally "she's never used a BUTTON in combat" when she's again, NEVER NEEDED TO. She NEVER turned the machine off. Ive brought up evidence showing that she recognizes and cares that the waves stay on, you've yet to provide ANYTHING that shows she's "just fine" with brawling in mindlessly without her waves, which she was quite insistent to keeping on.

 

[Kirby71]

21 also seems confident in all the game,also i didnt heard the Word reviving tomato yet,everyone just forgot the fact kirby has the reviving tomato?

Likely 100% 21 will be also very confident in the fight.

 

[Kirby71]

Also Kirby's soul has Life on his own.

What if the soul just do the "linking" to supress 21 or something?

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

we can't just assume kirby can link to supress 21 like the protag

 

[Kirby71]

But its a possibility,also Kirby's soul is special,not only is alive itself,but the soul can interact with things like using telekinesis with the Kirbys in mass attack,if the protag could do a link,surely a soul like this should be able to do It too.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

What Kirby's trying to say is that Kirby's soul has far more applicability than the ones 21's machine nullified, so Kirby would still have access to his consciousness & powers even if she did get it off (which I'm still saying she won't)

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How would he do that if his soul was sealed? Th entire point is that the soul itself is sealed. Regardless of his type of soul it is, Kirby is being nulled. Not that it matters anyway.