A standard Issue for One Piece Speed

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah, pretty much all characters and scaling chains are circular and end up with one of these reaction speeds at the start. I didn't wanna mention it due to the possibility of heated debates, until after they were mentioned by @Damage3245, and that is with ignoring the fact that some profiles' scaling is even wackier, for example, Kizaru's.

Kizaru's speed scaling is wanky, Not only does he somehow have a higher Base speed than in his light form, but he is also somehow faster than SoL due to this comment "Acceleration... is Power", while we have constant statements of him being SoL, do I even need to comment how wanky that is? Not to mention his apparent SoL blitz he did at recent egghead, where no one knew who feed Luffy food, when most of them should have been FTL in perception speed (or other speed according to their profiles) And was reveled to us in SAS 110 to be done at the speed of light. (YouTube link as proof) So yeah...

If you want I can give some more examples for round scaling if you want?

Kizaru's light speed is slower than his base speed, that's always been a thing

When we see light coming from his body, it's kizaru's causal light speed attacks...

Whenever he is fighting seriously, he doesn't and is faster in base

There's no issues in kizaru's speed section

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Kizaru's light speed is slower than his base speed, that's always been a thing

That makes no sense storywise, statementwise, and feat-wise.

When we see light being used, it's kizaru's causal light speed attacks...

And?

Whenever he is fighting seriously, he doesn't and is faster in base

Literally have no proof.

there's no issues in kizaru's speed

Hard disagree.


Edit - but yeah, I don't think this is exactly relevant for the thread.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That makes no sense storywise, statementwise, and feat-wise.

I literally showed you how that makes sense "storywise, statementwise, and feat-wise"

And?

What you mean and? I'm explaining when he's fighting and moving at light speed

Literally have no proof.

Read

Hard disagree.

That's on you, not on facts

 

[Damage3245]

Edit - but yeah, I don't think this is exactly relevant for the thread.

Yeah, save it for another time.

I'll post the scaling chains later today and we can see what needs doing.

 

[KingTempest]

Well the speed is just for moving their head.
To me that's very similar to just moving their eyes.

I'm not sure how much I'd trust extrapolating that to how fast they can punch,kick,dodge, etc.

Not gonna lie, To me it seemed like DMUA thinks it's just a reaction speed feat with I quote.

So yeah, I don't understand how you take this as him believing it's also combat speed?

To elaborate a bit more, it seemed like DMUA is more talking that most people don't see a difference between reaction and combat speed, but still fully agrees these are only reaction speed feats.

People move their head when they dodge, duck, etc. Saying it's solely the speed they react is honestly cope.

Like the reason why DMUA's message is real and alive is because people fight at the speed they react. I see no reason as to why someone moves their head much faster than their hand and feet. People have reaction speed feats and they scale it to combat speed. Same reason how people have combat speed feats and scale it to reaction speed.

Like unless someone has a situation where their reactions are just canonically drastically higher than their combat speed, then this entire thread is moot

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

People move their head when they dodge, duck, etc. Saying it's solely the speed they react is honestly cope.

Like the reason why DMUA's message is real and alive is because people fight at the speed they react. I see no reason as to why someone moves their head much faster than their hand and feet. People have reaction speed feats and they scale it to combat speed. Same reason how people have combat speed feats and scale it to reaction speed.

Like unless someone has a situation where their reactions are just canonically drastically higher than their combat speed, then this entire thread is moot

Then your issue is not with the scaling or anything like that, but the current standard.

Also, DMUA did agree that this is just reaction speed, but made it clear that a lot of people think they are the same.


For example, I asked @Agnaa this.

Do you consider Reaction speed calcs to also grant combat speed?

I got this as a response

No.

Reaction Speed is defined as a short burst of movement done in reaction to something (the most prototypical example being dodging a projectile).

Combat Speed is defined as a series of short movements that they can process and respond to (the most prototypical example being fighting someone, throwing punches and dodging them at comparable speeds).

Perception Speed is defined as the timeframe over which one can be consciously aware of something, and so being able to activate thought-based abilities in response (the most prototypical example being thinking an incoming projectile out of existence).

Attack Speed is the speed at which any combat-relevant thing sourced from the character travels at (the most prototypical example being firing a gun).

Travel Speed is the speed at which a character can move over long distances without flying (the most prototypical example being a motorcycle).

Flight Speed is the speed at which a character can move over long distances while flying (the most prototypical example being flying through space).

Some of these overlap; a combat speed feat is also reaction speed and perception speed. But many of them don't; travel speed can be far faster or far slower than reaction speed.

Since reaction speed is only one short movement, and isn't the speed a character could continuously fight at, they should not be equivocated.

So yeah, your issue is the current standard of how we treat Reaction speed feats, nothing else.

 

[FinePoint]

People move their head when they dodge, duck, etc. Saying it's solely the speed they react is honestly cope.

Like the reason why DMUA's message is real and alive is because people fight at the speed they react. I see no reason as to why someone moves their head much faster than their hand and feet. People have reaction speed feats and they scale it to combat speed. Same reason how people have combat speed feats and scale it to reaction speed.

Like unless someone has a situation where their reactions are just canonically drastically higher than their combat speed, then this entire thread is moot

Would you say the same thing if it were just their eyes which moved?

 

[KingTempest]

Then your issue is not with the scaling or anything like that, but the current standard.

Also, DMUA did agree that this is just reaction speed, but made it clear that a lot of people think they are the same.


For example, I asked @Agnaa this.


I got this as a response



So yeah, your issue is the current standard of how we treat Reaction speed feats, nothing else.

Let me make it clear then.

If it scales to only reaction speed, then it scales to combat speed as well, as people like her and others can combat those who keep up with their reaction speed.

 

[Damage3245]

If it scales to only reaction speed, then it scales to combat speed as well, as people like her and others can combat those who keep up with their reaction speed.

That would effectively make no distinction at all between reaction speed and combat speed which is not the case in our current standards.

Reaction Speed is the speed of perceiving and reacting in a single movement, whereas Combat Speed is the ability to move, attack and react in quick succession during fights. Combat Speed is for how the character fights, not just a singular movement they did one time. To put it another way:

If you have a character that reacts to and dodges a single bullet, that shows their reaction speed.

If you have a character dodging and weaving multiple bullets consistently, or they rapidly catch bullets out of the air, or are exchanging multiple back-and-forth blows with someone - then that shows their combat speed.

Reaction speed and Combat speed may be closely tied; but it depends on if the feat supports multiple actions being taken, not just a single head-turn or a single dodge. And it is supported if there is consistency to it; which there isn't in this case.

 

[KingTempest]

That would effectively make no distinction at all between reaction speed and combat speed which is not the case in our current standards.

Reaction Speed is the speed of perceiving and reacting in a single movement, whereas Combat Speed is the ability to move, attack and react in quick succession during fights. Combat Speed is for how the character fights, not just a singular movement they did one time. To put it another way:

If you have a character that reacts to and dodges a single bullet, that shows their reaction speed.

If you have a character dodging and weaving multiple bullets consistently, or they rapidly catch bullets out of the air, or are exchanging multiple back-and-forth blows with someone - then that shows their combat speed.

Reaction speed and Combat speed may be closely tied; but it depends on if the feat supports multiple actions being taken, not just a single head-turn or a single dodge. And it is supported if there is consistency to it; which there isn't in this case.

No.

You're right on the distinction. You're wrong on how that applies.

Reactions and Perceptions

In fiction, movement over long distances and movement over short distances - which can be dubbed "combat distances" - tend to be remarkably different for different characters, resulting in serious discrepancies when considering their overall speed. On this wiki, we therefore differentiate...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of. A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed, so this term should only be applied for a single, quick movement. Examples include ducking backwards to dodge bullets and diving away to dodge extremely fast vehicles. When measured in terms of a single movement of often undefined, small distance, humans have displayed between 300 milliseconds (below average human) to 100 milliseconds (peak human) reactions. Autonomous body reactions for humans can also reach as high as 40 milliseconds, but this is oftentimes inapplicable to reaction speed and shouldn't be used.

Characters of these calibers get tagged trying to dodge. They can also fight the people who tag them.
The OP is trying to say "This is only reaction speed" and isolate it to a neck movement when reaction speed gets scaled to combat speed in most scenarios.
If someone moves their head to dodge a lightning bolt and they get HHS reaction speed, and somebody manages to tag them, they get HHS combat speed.
It is very difficult to isolate speeds for people who fight all the time.

Like ok. She moves her head to react to lightning. MHS. If she gets tagged, combat speed.
This applies to the characters who are equal to her and get tagged.

The thread makes a valid premise to an extent, but you can't reasonably try to isolate this feat and say it's only reaction, because it inevitably scales to combat speed eventually.

 

[Damage3245]

Characters of these calibers get tagged trying to dodge. They can also fight the people who tag them.
The OP is trying to say "This is only reaction speed" and isolate it to a neck movement when reaction speed gets scaled to combat speed in most scenarios.
If someone moves their head to dodge a lightning bolt and they get HHS reaction speed, and somebody manages to tag them, they get HHS combat speed.
It is very difficult to isolate speeds for people who fight all the time.

Like ok. She moves her head to react to lightning. MHS. If she gets tagged, combat speed.
This applies to the characters who are equal to her and get tagged.

The thread makes a valid premise to an extent, but you can't reasonably try to isolate this feat and say it's only reaction, because it inevitably scales to combat speed eventually.

I don't think the Speed page supports what you're saying here.

Even on the bit you quoted from the Reactions and Perceptions section:

A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed, so this term should only be applied for a single, quick movement.

Zala's case is only a single, quick movement. We don't have evidence of her performing movements in similar timeframes to this in order to say that this is a consistent combat speed rating for her.

Hence why the Speed page says this:

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

And just being tagged doesn't seem to be enough here. You can react to someone throwing an attack at you and still be too slow to dodge / counter-attack.

 

[Damage3245]

@Dark_Soul20189 I think these are the only characters affected by the MHS calc in the OP. Everyone else from around that time seems to be either Hypersonic+ or scaling to Enel in some way:

Assuming that we did remove that for combat speed, then the characters would scale to the Hypersonic+ ratings.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't think the Speed page supports what you're saying here.

Even on the bit you quoted from the Reactions and Perceptions section:



Zala's case is only a single, quick movement. We don't have evidence of her performing movements in similar timeframes to this in order to say that this is a consistent combat speed rating for her.

She can get hit. People relative to her can get hit. So people's combat speeds scale to her reaction speed, and she scales back to them.

Hence why the Speed page says this:

This is talking about rare incidents where people usually react to 1 attack but can't maintain that speeds for long periods of time.

And just being tagged doesn't seem to be enough here. You can react to someone throwing an attack at you and still be too slow to dodge / counter-attack.

If you can't dodge something then whatever it is scales above your reaction speed. Like what?

 

[That_moron2]

or scaling to Enel

All the enel calcs we have are reaction speed I think

 

[KingTempest]

All the enel calcs we have are reaction speed I think

Luffy kicked a lightning bolt. Zoro blocked lightning. Nami blocked lightning. These are not reaction speed feats.

 

[That_moron2]

Luffy kicked a lightning bolt. Zoro blocked lightning. Nami blocked lightning. These are not reaction speed feats.

Ah okay

 

[Damage3245]

Just landing a hit on someone by itself doesn't necessarily mean a character is equal to another character's reaction speed. There's nuance to it too like surprise attacks, characters underestimating others and playing with them, allowing themselves to be hit, distractions, etc. Also there's only one time in the fight where Nami lands a clear blow on Zala and Zala blocks it fine in Chapter 191. So there's not enough support for Nami doing any combat moves at Massively Hypersonic speed, and therefore Zala doesn't to it either.

So even if the argument is right in general, in this case there needs support added to it than just "These two characters fought each other, so that's the whole scaling".

 

[KingTempest]

Just landing a hit on someone by itself doesn't necessarily mean a character is equal to another character's reaction speed. There's nuance to it too like surprise attacks, characters underestimating others and playing with them, allowing themselves to be hit, distractions, etc. Also there's only one time in the fight where Nami lands a clear blow on Zala and Zala blocks it fine in Chapter 191. So there's not enough support for Nami doing any combat moves at Massively Hypersonic speed, and therefore Zala doesn't to it either.

So even if the argument is right in general, in this case there needs support added to it than just "These two characters fought each other, so that's the whole scaling".

Ok.

Daz Bones scales to her reaction speed. Zoro tags him in direct combat.
Bon Clay scales to Daz's reaction speed. Sanji tags him in direct combat.
Crocodile and Robin scale above both of them in reaction speed. They all get tagged.
So it works.

 

[Damage3245]

Strictly speaking, the rule I think you're referring to says:

If character A can blitz character B, A's movement speed may be scaled to B's reaction speed.

It's not just landing a hit on someone, it seems.

 

[KingTempest]

Strictly speaking, the rule I think you're referring to says:



It's not just landing a hit on someone, it seems.

I'm not referring to that.

I'm referring to the fact that reaction speed is a speed. And if someone can move a similar speed in that, they scale relative.
People are getting narrowly dodged and tagged.
Reactions is short movements. If those movements get interrupted, the one interrupting scales.

Stop trying to treat reaction speed like perception. It is very and easily scaleable.

 

[Deceived3596]

It might be pertinent to evidence scans when discussing these claims, especially if it gets bogged down on a particular. It would definitely help in seeing if the interpretation of the feats are warranted or not.

 

[KingTempest]

It might be pertinent to evidence scans when discussing these claims, especially if it gets bogged down on a particular. It would definitely help in seeing if the interpretation of the feats are warranted or not.

Reactions and Perceptions

In fiction, movement over long distances and movement over short distances - which can be dubbed "combat distances" - tend to be remarkably different for different characters, resulting in serious discrepancies when considering their overall speed. On this wiki, we therefore differentiate...

vsbattles.fandom.com

If character A is considered an equal in combat to character B, then reaction speed may be scaled if there is no discrepancies or showings that suggest the opposite.

https://media.**********.net/attachments/1109214420028108982/1110525845543583744/unknown.png?ex=68174bca&is=6815fa4a&hm=db441ab172969d3c62e8a0a521b5f077add8bb0209b8928519cd7205f282a130&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1009&height=1552
Zala = Daz
Zala's Reaction Speed = Daz Bonez Reaction Speed
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1109211986434195587/1111960871032324106/166.png?ex=6817e702&is=68169582&hm=f3153e25ad9aaad3eac9e55fca6878061bca583c59db36ab836fb3199aefb91e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=919&height=1414
Zoro tags him. Zoro's Combat Speed = Daz Bonez Reaction Speed
Daz keeps up with Zoro. Daz's Combat Speed = Zoro's Combat Speed = Daz's Reaction Speed
Daz's Combat Speed = Zala's Combat Speed.

Simple.

 

[Damage3245]

Do you have the raws for that statement of "Each man is paired with an equally lethal woman"? I'm just curious to know what the original Japanese says for that.

 

[KingTempest]

Do you have the raws for that statement of "Each man is paired with an equally lethal woman"? I'm just curious to know what the original Japanese says for that.

I wish I did

 

[KingTempest]

Nevermind

East Blue to Skypiea revisions.

Since we're adding East Blue calculations. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Wapol%27s_Durability https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Laboon%27s_KE Could be nice supports I guess We can scale Luffy to Laboon and Wapol off of these correct?

vsbattles.com

 

[Damage3245]

Nevermind

East Blue to Skypiea revisions.

Since we're adding East Blue calculations. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Wapol%27s_Durability https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KingTempest16/Laboon%27s_KE Could be nice supports I guess We can scale Luffy to Laboon and Wapol off of these correct?

vsbattles.com

Haha, it's funny how these things come back around even several years later. Like deja vu.

 

[Kachon123]

This is such a strange thread. Reaction speed feats don't automatically scale to combat speed. It just more often than not ends up that way via basic scaling. We don't even do that in our ratings. We scale Luffy saying "He can preform feats like this. Can tag [x], who is capable of landing blows on him in combat." You're making up an issue and then slapping the name One Piece on it for whatever reason. ***** ridiculous

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah the OP linked a calc of Luffy literally leaping away from a laser and said that's reaction speed... twice.

He jumped away from a laser. How the hell is that some form of unscaleable reaction speed.

 

[Reiner04]

I was asked for input on this thread. So far I am in agreement with Kingtempest.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

YouTube link as proof

"That action seemed to be done in the speed of light"

Good Lord oda cooked his own verse

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

As I have now woken up, gotten my coffee, and tried to fix my keyboard, time to get replies in. PS - My attempt at fixing my keyboard didn't help at all...
(Spacebar, o key are very much broken)

So, before continuing, I apologize for all the mistakes is in this, just know how annoying it is for me to even type a normal sentence, since I have to manually edit all spaces

First, let's get the CRT back on track and do a quick summary before continuing further.


REACTION FEATS CALCS

The Zala one, pretty much everyone agrees it's a reaction feat, but some argue it can also be used fr Combat speed.

The Luffy ones, some agree that it's a reaction speed calc, while others argue it's a "short Movement calc."

The Sanji one, some agree that it's a reaction feat, while others argue due to it being multiple movements done it's not.


So let's focus on the least controversial one for now, the Zala one.


REACTION SPEED DEFINITION

After reading this thread, I decided to confirm if my own thoughts were correct regarding how we treat reaction speed and combat speed relations.

Me

Do you consider Reaction speed calcs to also grant combat speed?

Agnaa

No.

Reaction Speed is defined as a short burst of movement done in reaction to something (the most prototypical example being dodging a projectile).

Combat Speed is defined as a series of short movements that they can process and respond to (the most prototypical example being fighting someone, throwing punches and dodging them at comparable speeds).

Perception Speed is defined as the timeframe over which one can be consciously aware of something, and so being able to activate thought-based abilities in response (the most prototypical example being thinking an incoming projectile out of existence).

Attack Speed is the speed at which any combat-relevant thing sourced from the character travels at (the most prototypical example being firing a gun).

Travel Speed is the speed at which a character can move over long distances without flying (the most prototypical example being a motorcycle).

Flight Speed is the speed at which a character can move over long distances while flying (the most prototypical example being flying through space).

Some of these overlap; a combat speed feat is also reaction speed and perception speed. But many of them don't; travel speed can be far faster or far slower than reaction speed.

Since reaction speed is only one short movement, and isn't the speed a character could continuously fight at, they should not be equivocated.

You can share any amount of this post anywhere you desire.

This should be relatively clear what I asked and his thoughts, a Reaction speed calc, does not instantly grant combat speed.



After that, I asked a follow-up question.

Me

Let me ask you this again, it's regarding the same subject.

When does Combat speed scale to reaction speed?

Agnaa

When a character performs a combat speed feat that scales to it.

Me

Would it require blitizing, or just fighting her?

Since the argument for it is this.
X does a reaction feat, Y can combat X, Y and X are comparable, so both scales to the reaction feat in Combat speed.

Agnaa

Blitzing. X does not fight at their reaction speed, because it's their reaction speed, not their combat speed. Character Y would need to outpace X's reaction speed with a combat speed feat.

You can see my exact questions and his exact answers, so if you feel like they were asked wrongly or unsuitable, you are free to tell me.

However, I think these are perfect examples of what is happening here.


The Feat in question (Focusing Zala only for now)


We see how Zala's reaction feat quite literally scales most of the higher alabasta characters here, but ignore how there is no proof that the combat speed is the same as reaction speed, with the argument given that they can fight each other (The guy with the reaction speed can't dodge an attack) or that she scales to it directly.

Issues with this claim are that even if we say she scales to that in combat, her profile treats it as if she has a full-out speed rating of it, and doesn't even separate her movement speed. (Zala's Profile)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic (Moved this fast)

The same is true for the other characters in this chain.

Not to mention the other issue with this scene in particular. In the manga, we don't exactly know when she looks at the Cloud, if it's before, during or after the attack has started. What we do have is from the anime, which is somewhat unreliable, is this. Manga shows this. (Note this was discussed here.)

We don't know if the lightning bolt was being charged or actually firing as she turned towards it.

So the time she has to turn around is unclear.

Another issue with this feat is that it's literally just her head turning towards the lightning cloud, and is later shown to be completely unable to even dodge or react even slightly towards the attack.


So the total assumptions we have to make for this entire chain to work are the following.

*First, we need to assume that she turned towards a lightning strike heading towards her (That's already an assumption)
*Second, we need to somehow assume that her combat speed is equal to the calculated reaction speed value.
*Third, we assume that her entire speed is equal to it.
*Fourth, We scale a large margin of the characters to it and also grant them the speed and also grant them full speed, not just combat.

The lowest Massively Hypersonic characters like Zala are scaled to Zala's calc (Mach 314)

I think I answered most of the stuff, and sorry again for all the wait and mistakes, typing with a broken keyboard is a pain.

PS - For now, we focus on Zala and the scaling chain surrounding her to prevent any possible derailment.

Notes -
*If you want, I can add a current voting tally to this message, but I would prefer to do it a bit down the line for this CRT.
*Remember that the other reaction feats were put on as examples, that there are many reaction feats that start scaling chains, and they are NOT a priority for now.

 

[Kachon123]

We see how Zala's reaction feat quite literally scales most of the higher alabasta characters here, but ignore how there is no proof that the combat speed is the same as reaction speed, with the argument given that they can fight each other (The guy with the reaction speed can't dodge an attack) or that she scales to it directly.

Issues with this claim are that even if we say she scales to that in combat, her profile treats it as if she has a full-out speed rating of it, and doesn't even separate her movement speed. (Zala's Profile)
The same is true for the other characters in this chain.

This is only an issue because of non detailed and very outdated profiles. I know for a fact that profiles for Alabasta are being worked on right now, but I beg to just read the fight.

Putting aside the validity of the calc itself, Nami's combat speed scales above Zala's reactions, given the fact that she was able to use her cool ball, create a mirage, and dodge her attack all in short range before she could notice. Zala was just capable of pressuring Nami the entire fight, which is why even though this is a reaction feat, basic scaling via reading shows that their two speeds (combat and reaction) are relative.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

This is only an issue because of non detailed and very outdated profiles. I know for a fact that profiles for Alabasta are being worked on right now, but I beg to just read the fight.

I have watched the anime and read the manga; in fact, I recently reread the entire fight. (ones before I posted this thread, and now again to confirm) Though admittedly, my version is not the best translation.

Putting aside the validity of the calc itself,

Yep, as mentioned, I have no real problem with the calc outside the issue that I mentioned already.

Nami's combat speed scales above Zala's reactions, given the fact that she was able to use her cool ball, create a mirage, and dodge her attack all in short range before she could notice.

I am gonna be honest, I don't see how this is a speed feat, it was not a blitz or anything like that, and just Nami "tricking" her, and making an illusion she was present where she was not. We don't know when she actually replaced herself with it, even, but the manga seems to indicate it was before she even started the attack, during the time Zala was buried under rubble, though I am curious what the others think (Chapter 191 of the manga)

Counterargument - Zala questions how Nami could have done such a thing at close range.

Answering the counterargument - Nothing proves that Nami actually did it when Zala was attacking, as I explained above, and Nami didn't say she actually did it when Zala was attacking her. So the entire thing is just Zala having no idea what just happened, and is in full disbelief. (Note from my understanding of the fight, Zala was also extremely overconfident in her fight with Nami)

Zala was just capable of pressuring Nami the entire fight

Completely agree.

which is why even though this is a reaction feat, basic scaling via reading shows that their two speeds (combat and reaction) are relative.

How though? How does Zala completely dominating Nami in both speed and power show that Zala scales to her reaction speed?


And again, if we look into the context of the Lightning feat calc (Chapter 192 if anyone wanna give it a look)
We see Nami say something, and the next panel her attack going beside Zala and a cloud behind her starts showing signs of lightning we even see it, but nothing closing in on her (More proof that the attack take some time before actually firing of) Only after that do we see her head turn towards the lightning that we don't know is charging up or actually being fired at her(Only her head the rest of her body remains stationary). In the next panel, she is hit by lightning.

Something that I am curious about, though, is what the Japanese is next to the clouds? Since what I am currently thinking is that it's a buzzing sound from the cloud producing/charging lightning up, and that would further disprove that she turned her head when it was fired against her.


(And again, I am not questioning any part of Tempest's calc, only bringing up if the scenario it's calculating truly happened.)

 

[That_moron2]

Tempest King

Who??

 

[That_moron2]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

Bump

Don't forget that bumping threads should ideally not happen unless 24 hours have passed since the last post....

 

[That_moron2]

Don't forget that bumping threads should ideally not happen unless 24 hours have passed since the last post....

I thought it was 8, my bad

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Since it appears no new arguments are being given, I will start counting votes for Zala calc specifically.

The Feat can only count as a reaction speed feat -
The Feat should be nuked entirely for being unreliable (proof has been provided in earlier claims) -
It should stay the same -
Neutral -

 

[Damage3245]

I was asked to re-comment on this, so my vote would be to either remove the feat entirely or - if the majority doesn't want that - to treat it just as reaction speed.

 

[KingTempest]

My vote is make it reaction and scale people to it like regular scaling works as.