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@WindGodAchero they pick and choose what's canon with no logic or consistency trying to put a canon complicates things and the only ever canon to ever be and will be is the manga chapters by toriyama
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About Dragon Ball Canonicity...
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
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@Missy, unfortunatelly Tori stopped taking care of DBS drawing manga, so unless Tori makes an novel by his own, the manga/anime is the one considered canon (Although, people consider anime more canon for some reason).
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@Antoniofer
toriyama has not made anything aside minus and jaco which both sucked and a few other mangas but they are canon due to it being autror intent and toei products are labeled non canon so same should apply for super and gt and all other sources of media
toriyama has not made anything aside minus and jaco which both sucked and a few other mangas but they are canon due to it being autror intent and toei products are labeled non canon so same should apply for super and gt and all other sources of media
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Pretty sure Tori made the raft of Super, yes it lack of details, but it exist and technically made by him (unlike GT and most Toei merchandise). Just "half" Super is made by Toei, and we already consider GT non-canon.
And how Matt said, Super being continuation of Kai wouldn't make Kai (and the filler) canon.
And how Matt said, Super being continuation of Kai wouldn't make Kai (and the filler) canon.
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@Antoniofer
he has such a minor role though most of the work is done by toei and toyotaro and ontop of that the content condradicts the source and on top of that is it not being wrote by him and he is backseater if anything now and dragon ball as a whole has been a product instead of a work like it was and the canon is what wrote by the author and then on what makes gt any less canon then super besides headcanon and bias
he has such a minor role though most of the work is done by toei and toyotaro and ontop of that the content condradicts the source and on top of that is it not being wrote by him and he is backseater if anything now and dragon ball as a whole has been a product instead of a work like it was and the canon is what wrote by the author and then on what makes gt any less canon then super besides headcanon and bias
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Daikaioshin appears in the original manga, is not a Toei's invention.
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@Antoniofer
yea and so does the tuflles so are they are canon. The super being canon logic would make bardock's crew canon cause toyotaro made a segment of that and since the latter two are from the orginal manga so saying their not canon would go against author intent. If super is canon so that would make yo son goku canon because the line in broly about tarble and goku and so super the canon includes but is not limited to Filler chars Ova chars and characters from one off specials
yea and so does the tuflles so are they are canon. The super being canon logic would make bardock's crew canon cause toyotaro made a segment of that and since the latter two are from the orginal manga so saying their not canon would go against author intent. If super is canon so that would make yo son goku canon because the line in broly about tarble and goku and so super the canon includes but is not limited to Filler chars Ova chars and characters from one off specials
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Don't remember the tsufuru appearing in the original manga, however, if they did and contradict the current movie, anime and manga then its kinda obvious that they were retcon-ed (a difference from Daio Kaio, that its appearance do not contradict anything).
What Toyo drew has nothing to do with the actual lore, it was a "what could have been" as many of his draws (and yet, the Bardock's crew appeared briefly in the last movie).
What Toyo drew has nothing to do with the actual lore, it was a "what could have been" as many of his draws (and yet, the Bardock's crew appeared briefly in the last movie).
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Truffles never appeared in original manga nor super
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Also, Super Anime is more Canon than the Super Manga. The Broly Movie is outright stated to be a continuation of the anime
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The manga has more input from Toriyama than the anime which barely had any input from him in the ToP. Only the Broly movie had major input from Toriyama recently.
No such as thing as "more canon", both are separate canons and can't be cross-scaled.
No such as thing as "more canon", both are separate canons and can't be cross-scaled.
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- Thread starter
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Toriyama also said that the Broly movie is canon to both the anime and manga.
EDIT: Never mind it was a misconception. It had to do with Toriyama's involvement.
EDIT: Never mind it was a misconception. It had to do with Toriyama's involvement.
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@Zamasu Chan
can you show me that statement and @Kepekley23 canon is loose and writers dont care about it anymore and just want that paycheck and gt was stated as canon until people complained at toei until they made it not as such and statements are invalid unless backed by facts and proof which toriyama and toei often condrict themseles alot like buu being made before time instead of being made by babidi and he did not even know who tao pai was his own character and he does not even write it anymore and on top of that he likes the movies and even added bardock to the manga cause he liked the ova and the dbs anime and manga is different canons as most people know and your right @Matthew Schroeder its a sequel to the anime like gt and people cant accept the fact its just like it in every manner of the way both written by toei with not much input from toriyama and both being being sequels to z and both having goku act dumber and it having goku and vegeta as main characters and having a villian who calls himself the hakaioshin and having a villian that relates to saiyan's past anyways got off topic super is non canon anime sequel like gt in my option cause it fits the same crteria for such and @Zamasu Cha can show me a statement or a source proving such and @Matthew Schroeder it was reference that they killed by saiyans and as for baby and hatyatchiyack totally and utterly non canon but their demise at the hands of saiyans and planet renamed after king vegeta is canon
can you show me that statement and @Kepekley23 canon is loose and writers dont care about it anymore and just want that paycheck and gt was stated as canon until people complained at toei until they made it not as such and statements are invalid unless backed by facts and proof which toriyama and toei often condrict themseles alot like buu being made before time instead of being made by babidi and he did not even know who tao pai was his own character and he does not even write it anymore and on top of that he likes the movies and even added bardock to the manga cause he liked the ova and the dbs anime and manga is different canons as most people know and your right @Matthew Schroeder its a sequel to the anime like gt and people cant accept the fact its just like it in every manner of the way both written by toei with not much input from toriyama and both being being sequels to z and both having goku act dumber and it having goku and vegeta as main characters and having a villian who calls himself the hakaioshin and having a villian that relates to saiyan's past anyways got off topic super is non canon anime sequel like gt in my option cause it fits the same crteria for such and @Zamasu Cha can show me a statement or a source proving such and @Matthew Schroeder it was reference that they killed by saiyans and as for baby and hatyatchiyack totally and utterly non canon but their demise at the hands of saiyans and planet renamed after king vegeta is canon
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- Thread starter
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See my edited comment above.
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Bump.
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Welp, if my memory do not fail me, Kai is still regarded as non-canon, appeared in the anime do not means much since is made by Toei and it can re-use its own characters. DBS Anime would technically be the continuation of DBZ Kai, but that do not means that is canon.
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I still don't understand why we can't use info from Kai tho.
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If is not made by Toriyama is not canon (Kai is an adaptation of the original). DBS is the only exception (Toei or Toyo) since is the only media we have.
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Well, we now have a Son Goku (Toei) profile, so I do not think that we have significant restrictions about this anymore.
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We have no issues with non-canon profiles, the issue is to mix the canons. Mixing Kai with DBS Anime would make the first one canon or the second one non-canon.
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Woah hold on a sec mixing Toei Goku and DBS Toei Goku can't be a thing but that basically what happened in Kai. Toyo also has waaay more info from Toriyama himself that's why the anime and manga are massively different.Antoniofer said:
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Kai is an adaptation, is not mixing elements from different canon. As already said, both current anime and manga are adaptations (reasons why the anime use filler characters and arcs), but since the main canon (the draft) is not a media or a serialization, both are considered canon.
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Kai is not canon it is literally just a directors cut of Dragonball Z, and as Antonio has said above me is ultimately an adaption, the problem arises that there is no TRUE canon for Dragonball Super and the reason why the anime uses footage from Kai is because it's archived from Toei and Kai was upscaled to 1080p making it easier for them to fuse it with Super oppose to the original cut that was lower in quality
as for the voice changes, as far as I know, that's exclusive to the Dub and not the original Japanese voice cast
as for the voice changes, as far as I know, that's exclusive to the Dub and not the original Japanese voice cast
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I'm still in favor of using composite canon or having keys for both the anime and Manga, as they both are canon, the same thing is happening with Boruto
where both are technically canon but they are two different adaptions in different Media's
where both are technically canon but they are two different adaptions in different Media's
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I think a manga key for DBS characters could work given that they're both valid version of the same history though ones should be kept separate for ease of navigation
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Ok so here's the thing. Toei basically does the same thing in DBS as they did DBZ. In DBZ they took the manga and turned it into a tv show. In DBS they take a vague plot summary to made by Toriyama. There's no actual difference and the DBS anime is WAAAY more different than the manga because of Toei making a whole bunch of extra stuff. There's the filler, ssbe, ssbkk, GoD Toppo, etc. Those weren't made by Toriyama so what makes them canon? DBS anime and DBZ Kai are literally one in the same and Kai should be used as an info crutch for the DBS Anime. It's the most consistent, simple thing in my opinion.
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They are considered "canon" simply cuz the real canon is not serialized, is just a little more than an idea written on paper; yeah, it have a few amount of stuff that do not appear in the draft, but aside from "manga has more direct involvement with the OG author and do not use OG Toei characters", they are essentially the same (or at least, people choose it to be that way).
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I have a question though, can we use Kai as a secondary source for unexplained things in the canon continuity? This is important.
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Is there really a point in creating a Son Goku (Kai) profile, when we already have a Son Goku (Toei) profile for the original anime?
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@Antivasima
Kai is adaptation of Original anime with no filler arcs so it's pointless and im still in a disargee on the concept of a toeiverse anyways. Let alone a Kai Verision. Antivasima the Super Manga and Anime are equals in terms of canon as their both of them come from the same original notes by toriyama adapted into their own medium by toyotaro and toei respectively
Kai is adaptation of Original anime with no filler arcs so it's pointless and im still in a disargee on the concept of a toeiverse anyways. Let alone a Kai Verision. Antivasima the Super Manga and Anime are equals in terms of canon as their both of them come from the same original notes by toriyama adapted into their own medium by toyotaro and toei respectively
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