Adamantium Downgrade (Marvel Comics)

[Tomfer]

Giving adamantium a tier is a bad idea. We are treating like if Spider-Man gets stabbed once by Wolverine, he'd instantly explode and die because he doesn't have tier 3 durability. So my suggestions is to treat adamantium as a really good durability negation. This is already being treated in a few profiles like Kraven the Hunter, so my goal is to standardize this for everyone else.

Adamantium is able to interact with Moon Shade, a multi-dimensional (Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 42) a being who is incorporeal in the regular 3-dimensional space and had the powers of Franklin Richards. Moon Knight was able to interact with it thanks to his adamantium weapons, and then ultimately defeated him as it cancels out his powers and dimensionality. (Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 41, Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 42, Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 43 and Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 44)

Moon Knight's adamantium weaponry nullified Demogoblin's powers, and also split him into multiple people. (Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 45)

Adamantium can cut souls. (Wolverine Vol 2 #12)

Adamantium possess special properties that shield users from demonic possessions. (Wolverine Vol 2 #179)

Liquid adamantium sealed a dimensional rift. (Avengers Vol 1 #400)

Wolverine's claws were able to cut a energy connection. (Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 #158)

TLDR: We will no longer give a tier for adamantium and any weaponry of adamantium, everything will be index as "far higher" from now on. These include durability feats too.
Everyone who uses adamantium as form of weaponry will be given these new abilities;

Durability Negation, Non-Physical Interaction, Statistics Reduction, Power Nullification, Biological Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, and Limited Dimensional Manipulation (Moon Knight's adamantium is able to interact with Moon Shade, a multi-dimensional (Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 42) a being who is incorporeal in the regular 3-dimensional space and had the powers of Franklin Richards. Moon Knight was able to interact with it thanks to his adamantium weapons, and then ultimately defeated him as it cancels out his powers and dimensionality. (Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 41, Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 42, Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 43 and Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 44). Moon Knight's adamantium weaponry nullified Demogoblin's powers, and also split him into multiple people. (Marc Spector: Moon Knight Vol 1 45). Liquid adamantium sealed a dimensional rift. (Avengers Vol 1 #400). Wolverine's claws were able to cut a energy connection. (Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 #158). Adamantium can cut souls (Wolverine Vol 2 #12).)

Everyone who uses adamantium as form of defense will be given these new abilities;
Limited Resistance to Possession (Adamantium possess special properties that shield users from demonic possessions. (Wolverine Vol 2 #179))

Characters affected by this: Wolverine, Sabretooth, Daken, Laura, Moon Knight (being handled in another thread), Doctor Doom, Model 36, Bullesye, Zemo, Kraven, Hammerhead, Tiger Shark, Hawkeye

Special thanks to Confluctor, Neron and Soul Shifter for the help. I appreciate it.

 

[Huesito88]

"Giving adamantium a tier is a bad idea. We are treating like if Spider-Man gets stabbed once by Wolverine, he'd instantly explode and die because he doesn't have tier 3 durability."

We don't (by default atleast), a High 3-A (or any higher rating than our accepted 8 times via one shot) sword with sharpness would just cut the area off easily not reduce the rest of the body to a complete blood splatter.

 

[Rgerdeena]

i agree with the thread

Also I’d like to note that ultron being herald tier doesn’t prove anything since it’s just that he builds really well, same as iron man, doesn’t mean any piece of that metal is that durable

 

[Tomfer]

We don't (by default atleast), a High 3-A (or any higher rating than our accepted 8 times via one shot) sword with sharpness would just cut the area off easily not reduce the rest of the body to a complete blood splatter.

It's an exaggerated point for comedy.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I don't remember when this was brought up, but what about Kimura ? Her whole deal is having unbreakable skin and that's why she can't be sliced by adamantium, but she's currently rated as

Building level, Galaxy level for her skin

Which is like, really weird

 

[Rgerdeena]

I don't remember when this was brought up, but what about Kimura ? Her whole deal is having unbreakable skin and that's why she can't be sliced by adamantium, but she's currently rated as

Which is like, really weird

She’d just be building level and have resistance to durability negation, which makes more sense then what she currently is

 

[Tomfer]

I don't remember when this was brought up, but what about Kimura ? Her whole deal is having unbreakable skin and that's why she can't be sliced by adamantium, but she's currently rated as

Which is like, really weird

We delete her profile forever.

We'd have far higher durability, or "at least far higher" via upscaling.

have resistance to durability negation

No, we should be VERY carefully about scaling haxs here.

 

[Rgerdeena]

No, we should be VERY carefully about scaling haxs here.

Huh, why?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

everything will be index as "far higher" from now on

Wouldn't it just be "can ignore conventional durability with adamantium"?

Also, does this mean Hyperion can get Resistance to Durability Negation or something?

 

[Tomfer]

Wouldn't it just be "can ignore conventional durability with adamantium"?

It would achieve the same thing.

Also, does this mean Hyperion can get Resistance to Durability Negation or something?

Like I said before, I really think we should be extremely careful about scaling such haxs here. Especially because in those scans, it's just raw durability tanking (Even more reason why wolverine's claws shouldn't have a tier of this own)

 

[Rex_Eckles]

It would achieve the same thing.

I dunno, those seem like different things.

Like I said before, I really think we should be extremely careful about scaling such haxs here. Especially because in those scans, it's just raw durability tanking (Even more reason why wolverine's claws shouldn't have a tier of this own)

Can he get "likely higher" durability or is that just part of invulnerability or something?

 

[Tahoy49574]

Like I said before, I really think we should be extremely careful about scaling such haxs here. Especially because in those scans, it's just raw durability tanking (Even more reason why wolverine's claws shouldn't have a tier of this own)

I'm not really getting the difference here, like, does Hyperion have anything over Thanos ?

I feel like this CRT encompasses way more than initially thought

 

[Rgerdeena]

Especially because in those scans, it's just raw durability tanking (Even more reason why wolverine's claws shouldn't have a tier of this own)

Those scans don’t say he’s tanking it from raw durability, based on your proposal you can’t tank adamantium from raw durability, since it isn’t raw AP, so there’s not really any reason to not just say he has resistance to durability negation

 

[Tomfer]

Unfortunately, I'm not a Hyperion expert. To me, I'd prefer to call the feat itself BS than to give him a resistance but that's an opinion formed with the profile being the one source of information. If you guys prefer to give him a resistance, sure, but leave it to another thread. I'd prefer if you focused on the thread itself for now.

 

[Rgerdeena]

If you guys prefer to give him a resistance, sure, but leave it to another thread. I'd prefer if you focused on the thread itself for now.

Agreed

 

[The_Impress]

We delete her profile forever.

If this is a legit proposal then this revision is fundamentally flawed lol.

Just give her the resist.

 

[SharkBook01]

I feel like this is a super slippery slope. Characters have shrugged off Adamantium attacks and broken Adamantium via raw stats before, like Iron Man, for example in certain suits has done it. Would we have given every character who's able to break adamantium resistance to Durability Negation, Non-Physical Interaction, Statistics Reduction, Power Nullification, Biological Manipulation, Mind Manipulation?

That just feels wrong to me, as at the end of the day, 90% of Marvel writers just treat Adamantium like a really strong metal. The instances of it having weird esoteric abilities are definitely in the minority. Which makes it odd to give all these crazy hax to it, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[MrKerf]

Sooo, the note of Adamantium not making sense probably stays, huh?

If this is a legit proposal then this revision is fundamentally flawed lol.

Just give her the resist.

Adamantium doesn’t have a specific mechanic to treat it as durability negation, it isn’t a monomolecular blade or something. So, by giving it Durability Negation we already stepping out of line a bit. Similarly, Kimura just has a highly durable skin, she doesn’t have any evidence to resist such stuff. And no, giving her resists to Adamantium specifically is also kinda ass.

 

[Tomfer]

If this is a legit proposal then this revision is fundamentally flawed lol.

I'm so tired...

Would we have given every character who's able to break adamantium resistance to Durability Negation, Non-Physical Interaction, Statistics Reduction, Power Nullification, Biological Manipulation, Mind Manipulation?

Why breaking the metal would be equal to resisting it? I understand being stabbed and resisting the effects, but breaking it equals to nothing to my understanding.

 

[SharkBook01]

Why breaking the metal would be equal to resisting it? I understand being stabbed and resisting the effects, but breaking it equals to nothing to my understanding.

I mean It's not like Adamantium's innate properties change when you use it offensively. If we were to accept that Adamantium has things powernull and statistic reduction then it would have to have them all the time, meaning you would need to resist its statistic reduction to break it, correct? Or am I just missing something?

 

[Tomfer]

I mean It's not like Adamantium's innate properties change when you use it offensively. If we were to accept that Adamantium has things powernull and statistic reduction then it would have to have them all the time, meaning you would need to resist its statistic reduction to break it, correct? Or am I just missing something?

I think I'm the one missing something because I don't get your point? You're having problems with differentiating between offensively and defensively? It's more to avoid bloating the profile with abilities one cannot properly use. Like Kimura, the one mentioned above, by the profile, it's something that only affects her durability, so she's incapable of using any of the hax on the OP.

I guess she could stab her with her fingers? Honestly, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on, so if you wanna argue against that, I'm more than willing to hear.

 

[Eseseso]

Looks good, though what about adding this for adamantium cutting souls? It's from Wolverine Vol. 2 (1988) #128, and it'd be good support for NPI

 

[Confluctor]

Cook my guy

Also, does this mean Hyperion can get Resistance to Durability Negation or something?

Also do we know that ultimate universe Admantium is the same as 616 - or at least have similar functionality?

 

[Random-Helper323]

The logical reason Adamantium cuts so well is because it can hold an insanely fine edge without dulling or chipping, so calling it durability negation via sharpness has its uses. The durability of Adamantium is more difficult though. Wolverine has been knocked out by characters who come nowhere close to breaking Adamantium, so it makes his durability very messy to index.

 

[Tomfer]

Looks good, though what about adding this for adamantium cutting souls? It's from Wolverine Vol. 2 (1988) #128, and it'd be good support for NPI

Updated the OP, thanks for the help.

Also do we know that ultimate universe Admantium is the same as 616 - or at least have similar functionality?

Wait, is that OG Ultimate Wolverine? If so, then we shouldn't use this feat.

Wolverine has been knocked out by characters who come nowhere close to breaking Adamantium, so it makes his durability very messy to index.

So you essentially agree to take out tiers for adamantium? That's the main point of the thread.

As a side-note, I'm more than willing to put this thread on hold for the time being, until the other marvel threads are finally done.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I feel like this is a super slippery slope. Characters have shrugged off Adamantium attacks and broken Adamantium via raw stats before, like Iron Man, for example in certain suits has done it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an alloy called Secondary Adamantium which is cheaper to make and the one that usually breaks with enough physical force? Other Adamantium like Wolverine's skeleton or Cap's shield are the ones you can't physically break without some hax or something.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there an alloy called Secondary Adamantium which is cheaper to make and the one that usually breaks with enough physical force? Other Adamantium like Wolverine's skeleton or Cap's shield are the ones you can't physically break without some hax or something.

Cap’s shield is harder then true adamantium, but other then that yeah your right

 

[Tahoy49574]

Thinking about it, wasn't Wolverine's solo run about adamantium's origins and how there are different types ? Maybe there's something useful there ?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Hold on tho: most of the time adamantium is just treated as "really tough metal", I think saying that it has dura neg is a bit too far of a stretch, even if it displays some weird properties sometimes, that's not how its usually portrayed.

 

[Excellence616]

Hold on tho: most of the time adamantium is just treated as "really tough metal", I think saying that it has dura neg is a bit too far of a stretch, even if it displays some weird properties sometimes, that's not how its usually portrayed.

Same with Vibranium which is known to be the next strongest metal after Adamantium but it is actually kinetic energy absorption. When Vibranium is used to make sharp objects that can pierce the likes of Hulk and Thor, is the kinetic energy argument still a stretch?

I understand that when Adamantium is used to make armor or shield, the said shield or armor would be really tough, making it looks as if it actually durable. It's just hax.

 

[KLOL506]

I am personally hesitant on giving Adamantium dura neg without an actual official confirmation. Couldn't care less what tier it scales to.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Same with Vibranium which is known to be the next strongest metal after Adamantium but it is actually kinetic energy absorption. When Vibranium is used to make sharp objects that can pierce the likes of Hulk and Thor, is the kinetic energy argument still a stretch?

I understand that when Adamantium is used to make armor or shield, the said shield or armor would be really tough, making it looks as if it actually durable. It's just hax.

Ok but Vibration is specifically kinetic energy absorption. Adamantium is consistently treated as just: "super durable metal" and rarely displays weird supernatural properties like dura neg

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[SharkBook01]

Some of this just seems like weird hax you could give to Moon Knights profile rather than every adamantium user.

 

[Excellence616]

Some of this just seems like weird hax you could give to Moon Knights profile rather than every adamantium user.

why Moon Knight's profile when it is from the use of Adamantium?

 

[SharkBook01]

why Moon Knight's profile when it is from the use of Adamantium?

Because most of this stuff is pretty clearly not a consistent ability that Adamantium has judging by the hundreds of times across Marvel where people have been hit by adamantium weapons and didn't get duraneged or powernulled. It would make much more sense to just say that some of Moon Knight's gear has these abilities rather than every adamantium weapon in Marvel imo.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Because most of this stuff is pretty clearly not a consistent ability that Adamantium has judging by the hundreds of times across Marvel where people have been hit by adamantium weapons and didn't get duraneged or powernulled. It would make much more sense to just say that some of Moon Knight's gear has these abilities rather than every adamantium weapon in Marvel imo.

I just looked through the infinity scans, and the adamantium nullifying moon shade’s powers was specifically because moon shade was weak to adamantium… most beings hit by adamantium aren’t weak to it, so it’d just be a limited ability that’s irrelevant against most opponents

 

[KLOL506]

I just looked through the infinity scans, and the adamantium nullifying moon shade’s powers was specifically because moon shade was weak to adamantium… most beings hit by adamantium aren’t weak to it, so it’d just be a limited ability that’s irrelevant against most opponents

No. If anything it'd be a weakness for Moon Shade.

 

[Rgerdeena]

No. If anything it'd be a weakness for Moon Shade.

Fair enough