Adding Site Navigation to the Standard Formats

[Damage3245]

This doesn't need to be part of the profiles by default since it would be an optional feature, but I think the profiles would benefit from adding a "Site Navigation" subsection at the bottom of the profiles where a Navigation Box would go.

I jumped the gun on this a bit by creating an example of the Navbox here for the Parahumans (Verse) and I've added it to all of the profiles for that verse to demonstrate how it would look.

This isn't a significant change but does add a useful method of navigating around profiles in the same verse without having to return to the Verse page every time.

 

[Wokistan]

I agree

 

[Torlikoff]

This is good, really damn good.

 

[Jackythejack]

This is amazing I love it

 

[The_Coolest_Water_Bottle]

I really like it, I agree.

 

[Crzer07]

Looks good ƒæìƒæì

 

[Ionliosite]

Looks like a great idea... and a lot of effort and editing.

 

[Damage3245]

Since it is optional, the only effort required is from people who want to see it added to profiles.

 

[Andytrenom]

I definitely like this idea, would save a lot of hassle when searching for specific files

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Hell yeah.

 

[Antvasima]

I would greatly appreciate if we could please drop this idea.

We already have a better function for this purpose, with the verse-specific categories that can list far more pages, making this completely redundant.

In addition, constantly updating navigation boxes with new characters, is extremely impractical and adds a neverending unnecessary workloads, and there isn't nearly enough space within them to list several dozen or in some cases a few hundred characters in the first place without turning them into a cluttered mess.

I have linked the relevant category for the verse in question below. It works well enough for our purposes as far as I am concerned. As such, this would just add lots of unnecessary work for no remotely sufficient payoff.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Parahumans_(Verse)

 

[Damage3245]

@Antvasima; the verse-specific categories don't just list characters at this point but also calcs making some of them bloated.

Plus the category only lists the characters alphabetically, it doesn't group the related characters together for easier labelling.

The Navbox also removes the extra step of needing the navigate to the category each time.

In terms of workload, this proposal consists of very little work to be done. It took me about 20 mins to create and add a single Navbox to a pretty large verse and it requires very little maintaining.

As an Admin of several wikis, I'm used to maintaining these kinds of things and I can handle it entirely by myself if needed.

 

[Damage3245]

I would like more staff input for this topic, since as far as I can tell this is a beneficial optional add-on with no drawbacks at all.

 

[Antvasima]

I have already listed various drawbacks with this, some listed calculation blogs within the categories are a trivial problem, and we already systematically organise different types of characters into groups in the verse pages, so this is still completely redundant.

Once put into the public spotligth, the feature is also quickly automatically going to spread and be adapted into widespread usage by people who have no idea what they are doing, and I would much prefer to not have any more monitoring and cleanup work added to my already strained workload. Unless you are willing to add at least a few hours of edit-patrolling work every single day for the coming years to your schedule to make up for it, I definitely wouldn't recommend this.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, I would greatly appreciate if we could please drop this idea, as it is going to spam the wiki with tens of thousands of edits that I am inevitably going to have the monitoring work for, for absolutely no beneficial gain whatsoever.

 

[Damage3245]

I will definitely commit any amount of time that is needed to monitor Site Navigational Templates.

I've got experience as an Admin on several Wiki's; I can manage this kind of thing, and I think you're overestimating the amount of problems this could cause.

I don't think we should just dismiss this out of hand; some staff members have voiced support and you're not the only member of the staff impacted by the proposed change.

 

[Damage3245]

If you're concerned with the general public misusing this feature, why don't you just allow staff users to be the only ones who can create the templates?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Yeah, I think you're being a bit paranoid here Antvasima.

 

[Antvasima]

Unless Damage is made into a content moderator who can mark every single one of the several tens of thousands of unnecessary edits that will follow in the wake of this as patrolled, which would involve thousands of hours of work for him, this is very much mainly going to be added to my workload alone, which is extremely inconsiderate, and I am not willing to work myself nearly to death due to extremely unnecessary ideas that will not cause any benefit to the wiki whatsoever.

The staff is also generally so busy IRL that they do not have much free time to help out in the wiki, especially not for issues like this as Damage suggests.

It is also extremely easy to give a thumbs up without having to deal with the actual consequences of a major decision, and I do not at all appreciate that he took this issue public in order to bypass me.

I am extremely firmly against this idea, and request that you please drop the subject and undo all of your edits before any permanent damage is done. Thank you.

 

[Damage3245]

I will undo all of my edits so far; but I strongly request that this be left open to more debate.

I believe I can answer all of your concerns.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Ant, with all due respect this matter hasn't been settled yet. Other admins and mods still have to send their opinions on the matter. You can't just bypass their authority like that.

 

[Antvasima]

@Damage

No you really can't. I am doing most of the daily patrolling work in this wiki, not you, and as I keep explaining, this will inevitably add massive amounts of work for almost no benefit, mainly to me alone, when I am already extremely overworked and stressed out from all of the tasks involving the wiki.

My apologies for being blunt, but this is a really really bad idea as far as I am concerned.

 

[Antvasima]

@Gojiboy

Stop interfering in a staff discussion please.

And yes, in this particular case, I would very much like to put in a veto, given that I would have to shoulder almost the entire fallout for a cause that I do not remotely believe in.

 

[Damage3245]

Speaking as an Admin of several wiki's, I think you're overestimating the amount of edits that would come from this.

Once a navigation template is created, it only requires a page to be edited once in order to add it.

Then any and all changes will take place on the template; given the small number of templates there will be, this will be pretty easy for me to manage.

If you have more concerns, I will do my utmost to address them but I can't help you unless you specifically tell me what the problems are.

 

[Antvasima]

No, I wouldn't. This is the by far most active wiki in Fandom in terms of editing and discussion forum activity, and we have over 20000 pages that would need to be updated.

I have already told you about some of the problems:

This is completely redundant given that we already have verse-specific categories and organised image galleries and link lists in the verse pages.

It would add severe amounts of ongoing patrolling work to my already strained to the limit workload.

You couldn't possibly properly properly organise navigation bars for several hundred verses, or select exactly which of the profiles that are most relevant.

We couldn't possibly fit several dozens or even a few hundred character links to every single navigation bar, and even if we could, it would turn into a bloated mess.

There would be constant extra edits, both to our over 20000 profile pages, and to the navigation boxes themselves, due to contrary opinions regarding what characters that they should contain.

Even if you would somehow be able to do all of the work on your own, it is a severe waste of time, and I would much prefer if you focus your attention on other more important tasks.

 

[Damage3245]

I must speak up about one bit in particular; 20,000 pages wouldn't need to be updated for this:

I'm proposing this solely to be an optional feature for people who are willing to put in the work. This is not a mandatory suggestion.

As for your other issues; there are ways around fitting "a few hundred characters" into a navigation box; I have suggestions and ideas that could easily resolve this problem.

If the issue is the wide scale of this, then can't we try starting small and prototyping this feature?

I may have been rash in my initial proposal but we don't need to make the leap from Suggestion to Public Release instantly. I'm willing to put in time showing you that it could work.

 

[Antvasima]

This is the sort of feature that would quickly catch on from our members noticing it, and be added en masse to a very large part of our pages at a growing pace, and I am not able or willing to deal with that for something like this.

I still maintain that this is a very bad idea, with lots of work for no benefit. My apologies.

 

[Damage3245]

@Antvasima; I have a new proposal.

Currently we don't allow members to make sweeping changes without making a CRT, right?

So why don't we require a thread to be made to get approval for a Navigation Template? That instantly makes it much more manageable and I can process requests for permission to add the navigation templates.

If people tried adding it "En masse" then I can simply warn them and direct them to the proper procedures.

 

[Antvasima]

No. There would be the same amount of extra edits for me to patrol. I already do so for accepted content revision threads as well, unless the edits are performed by very experienced members who consistently have known exactly what they are doing.

 

[AKM sama]

I mean it's nice and dandy when you don't have to switch an extra page to view another character, but it will only work well when the number of characters in said verse is low. For verses with hundreds of characters it would become much bloated and cluttered and finding another character would take much more time.

I can easily use the verse category page to find a character whose name starts with a particular letter. I can also use the verse page to find a character that is classified in a particular group. So it doesn't have any more positives than just navigating without having to switch an extra page.

On the other hand, whenever a character page is created or deleted, people will have to update the template alongside the verse page. And I have witnessed several cases where people don't even update the verse page, so I get where Ant is coming from. It definitely looks nice in practice, but it would be a lot of work for a negligible gain.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the support AKM. I also have far more to lose from this than Damage has to gain, so I would appreciate if he would drop this subject.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I was under the impression that it's been established multiple times on wiki that "too much work" for any revision is not a valid excuse. It may be better to postpone this in light of mass revisions currently but rejecting it because too much work is slightly nonsensical. If it's because it's not that useful, that's a different reason but too much work is among the worst possible arguments.

 

[Antvasima]

No, far too much work for far too little gain is an extremely valid argument, especially if I am forced to handle most of it, given how ridiculously hard I am already working for the sake of helping this wiki.

I and Damage have now agreed to drop this discussion in any case, so I will close it: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3538820