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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Sus said:
what's the biggest gap from base to ultimate that we know of? considering that base gohan isn't weak
Click to expand...
Well, iirc

Ssj kids>base Gohan
Base Gotenks> ssj kids (PRE ROSAT)
Base Gotenks (POST ROSAT)> ssj Gotenks (PRE ROSAT)
Ssj3 Gotenks= 400x base
Ultimate>ssj3 Gotenks

So base to ultimate is around 20,000x from base by simply scaling purely from Gotenks
 
SlendVeny said:
Canonically: Ultimate/Potential Unleash, Orange/Beast, Golden Frieza, Black Frieza, SSJ Rage, SSJB, SSJBE, SSJ Rose, LSSJ, Fusion, Dragon Ball Empowered, GoD form, and Merus' Angel state
Click to expand...
ngl most of these aren't even that impressive
toppo was = blue vegeta, in god form he's =< blue evolution, barely a 20x amp

frieza is fair, angel power is just angels not holding back
i didn't count blue/rose because it's 2 forms combined
LSS is fair maybeeee? it's roughly an SSG gap??
Jaakor48 said:
Well, iirc

Ssj kids>base Gohan
Base Gotenks> ssj kids (PRE ROSAT)
Base Gotenks (POST ROSAT)> ssj Gotenks (PRE ROSAT)
Ssj3 Gotenks= 400x base
Ultimate>ssj3 Gotenks

So base to ultimate is around 20,000x from base by simply scaling purely from Gotenks
Click to expand...
after training with the z sword, base gohan was >= base goku iirc
but yeah applying the gotenks goofy scaling it gets bumped up really alot
SS2 goku is 100x his base
SS3 gotenks is 20,000x that
gohan is > gotenks
2 million times is huge, but it's kinda consistent, because in super it bumped gohan to SSB level
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
LSSJ let Broly go from Base Gohan level to easily beating him in SSJ2, so it's about x5,000
Click to expand...
oh i was talking about canon broly's green haired form
he went from being somewhat SS1 gogeta level to not too far behind SSB
but broly got insane reactive evolution so idk
 
Sus said:
after training with the z sword, base gohan was >= base goku iirc
but yeah applying the gotenks goofy scaling it gets bumped up really alot
SS2 goku is 100x his base
SS3 gotenks is 20,000x that
gohan is > gotenks
2 million times is huge, but it's kinda consistent, because in super it bumped gohan to SSB level
Click to expand...
2C buu saga gohan
 
 
Sus said:
speaking of transformation multipliers, would golden frieza be ~ ss1 since frieza fought beyond god goku in base and ssb in gold?
Click to expand...
No. Because Golden Freeza was far stronger than Blue Goku until the stamina problems kicked in. If we argue that Base Freeza is equivalent to BG/SSG Goku then I'd think Golden would be analogous to a form like SS3 due to similar stamina problems.
 
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RedReaper616 said:
To be frank, SSJ4 doesn't really have a set multiplier either. It seems to just continually grant more strength the more Ki you have or more control you have. We're explicitly told that the SSJ4 you see most of the time is actually nerfed, because Goku isn't at Full Power, which results in him not performing as well as he should. This is very clearly established with his fight with Baby--The massive jumps in power I listed are the amps it gave a Goku on death's door. Once he gained his full power, he was able to just wallop Baby, and he can continually absorb Ki to grow in strength further, like he did to the Revenge Death Ball. This is really consistent, because when Goku fought Nuova he didn't even really have the Ki to transform at all, and was just forcing his body to do so, and he was fighting comparably, whereas when Goku fought Omega, after getting Ki given to him for his "Super Full Power" he utterly dwarfed everyone else and was directly stated to be so close to Omega the difference in their powers was impossible to tell.

So you could really say that SSJ4 is like, the perfect form? It has basically no drain, can create massive stores of power out of nothing, can sap power to fight above your weight class (making it have a lite version of the unbounded multiplier UE and UI have) and operates as a potential unlock that puts you in your prime body, meaning your prior physical circumstances don't really matter. While SSJ4 within the context of it's story won't naturally give you a SSBKK, SSBE, or UI/UE buff, you can work your way there pretty cleanly via just Super 17'ing your way up the ladder. The difference is that SSJ4 focuses on bettering the fundamentals, like precision, senses, stamina cost, improving the prior forms, etc. whereas UI and UE come with hax.
Click to expand...
Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
 
BlastX said:
Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
Click to expand...
"Dragon Hammer" Bruh! 💀
 
BlastX said:
Correction:Goku needed Super Full Power to fight Syn Shenron cause he was getting assblasted otherwise, once he went Omega he couldn't do shit to him and he needed to use Dragon Hammer or try and Self-Destruct to beat him.
Click to expand...
No, Gohan explicitly states their powers were similar. Omega also outright wasn't able to hurt Goku due to the resistances Goku had to all of his hax, and was only mildly stronger, they were going back and forth with Goku on the backfoot, something which we see visually when Omega does his hand raise wave, which easily knocked around everyone but Goku. Goku only becomes unable to do anything after he burns basically all his Ki on the Dragon Hammer/Super Dragon Fist. Super Full Power Goku thrashed Syn Shenron, and yes it was necessary because normal SSJ4 Goku (with virtually no Ki) was being utterly dominated, but all of that I noted (in a prior comment).

EDIT: Rewatching, GT Goku is on a much bigger backfoot physically, so not "moderately" weaker, as Goku kept getting hit before he could collect his bearings and even attack. However, Goku is still relative to Omega based on Gohan's statement regardless.
 
Last edited:
Huesito88 said:
So you don't buy how Buuhans feat is handled and you also disagree with infinite size cosmology?
Click to expand...
i have been around since the loungemoviecodec days debating GT feats I've seen all the arguments to be had but it seems to me ever since DBS got their new feats DBGT is now suddenly getting highballed to keep up with Super

No one back in the day was arguing for Multiversal GT and last i checked GT hasnt had a show since then.

Buuhan was screaming to the point where he was going to collapse the dimensions not sure how people are now arguing for multiversal Buuhan because that's something only he can do

Cosmology isn't the problem it's scaling GT to have infinite speed to a movie which(like most movies before BOG) doesn't fit in the timeline.

But i'll agree to disagree it's not that big of a deal to me.
 
GodOfThunder said:
Cosmology isn't the problem it's scaling GT to have infinite speed to a movie which(like most movies before BOG) doesn't fit in the timeline..
Click to expand...
The Buuhan feat being treated as 2-C is all thanks to @Ultima_Reality (whom is definitely NOT one of the GT guys that randomly wanted Multiversal DBZ all of a sudden in response to Super) making the crt and getting it accepted

Pikkon and Goku traveling Heaven is one of the main feats of infinite speed, it's not movie only
 
Huesito88 said:
The Buuhan feat being treated as 2-C is all thanks to @Ultima_Reality (whom is definitely NOT one of the GT guys that randomly wanted Multiversal DBZ all of a sudden in response to Super) making the crt and getting it accepted

Pikkon and Goku traveling Heaven is one of the main feats of infinite speed, it's not movie only
Click to expand...
i see but even then the point remains the same it doesn't make any sense claiming Base Goku and anyone who scales to him has infinite speed is ridiculous
 
SlendVeny said:
I thought it was based on an Otherworld Saga feat.
Click to expand...
i usually see people talk about the cooler one more often but the point remains the same claiming anyone who scales in anyway to Base goku or if you're going off the movies SSJ Goku has infinite speed makes zero sense
 
Huesito88 said:
The Metal Cooler feat/movie is not accepted in the Canon of GT here
Click to expand...
that's good but that still doesn't change the fact of everyone having infinite speed if they scale to base (Cell?) games Goku

GT pan having infinite speed and being low Multiversal is laughable
 
GodOfThunder said:
i see but even then the point remains the same it doesn't make any sense claiming Base Goku and anyone who scales to him has infinite speed is ridiculous
Click to expand...
Well here's the thing prior to Infinite speed it was MFTL+ with a value of "4.38 Quadrillion c", thanks to Pikkon's and Goku's feat
 
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