All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[Prime2024]

Thematically, Daima is pretty strong. It just has some pacing and continuity issues.

Are those issues enough to make it bad? No, that's silly imo. Most of the criticism I hear for the story that isn't about those two things are people just throwing random sht at a wall and saying it's bad without really explaining how or why, which is pretty standard for DB fans lol.

But the show took its time when it shouldn't have, and obviously left some glaring holes with continuity, (plus Arinsu was a let down), but otherwise Daima is pretty solid after a rewatch.

It's bad not just because of the pacing but because the story is horribly written, the characters are dull, completely useless, and contribute nothing to the plot. Every episode is a snoozefest where almost nothing happens outside of the Tamagami episodes. Daima does little more than throw random, unnecessary lore that nobody asked for. The final battle was just as boring, it was literally just Goku endlessly punching Gomah, who refuses to go down thanks to infinite stamina. The main villain is a complete joke (basically Jiren with a clown head), and to top it off, they even ruined SSJ4.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

If the Moro arc was adapted into an anime, would it break the DBS anime canon or would it still be the same?

 

[Prime2024]

If the Moro arc was adapted into an anime, would it break the DBS anime canon or would it still be the same?

Why? It won't break anything

 

[Entity]

If the Moro arc was adapted into an anime, would it break the DBS anime canon or would it still be the same?

it would break my coglioni

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Why? It won't break anything

Because the DBS anime does not depend on the manga for anything and is an independent anime

 

[Nullflowerblush]

-snip-

Even in the zeno's biography they use the word universe to refer to the entire multiverse.

To describe Zen-Oh as the "most eminent god in the universe" does not restrict the scope of Zen-Oh's presence to a singular universe. As the Omni-King, in all universes, he is the most eminent god; if he ranks No. 1 in the entire multiverse, he ranks No. 1 in every individual universe as well.

Also, the terms used in describing the Multiverse, the individual universes, and parallel timelines are straightforward.

Spoiler: 時代

Any time a character references their current timeline, they use term jidai (時代), which refers to an era or period of time; like, say, the Heian jidai—or "Heian period", the period of peace. However, when distinguishing between the individual eras, they use the terms kako (過去), genzai (現在), and mirai (未来); or, literally, past, present, and future.

For example,

タイムマシンは破壊したトランクスはもはや あの時代から動けん
"The Time Machine was destroyed. Trunks can no longer relocate from that era." (episode 50)

Spoiler: 世界

箱の中にあった 色違いの指輪を覚えておるな？
あれらは 歴史を変えて 別の世界が できてしまったために―生まれたものだ
"Do you remember the differently colored rings inside the box?
They came about because of the changing of history, creating a separate world." (episode 54)

Gowasu uses the term sekai (世界), which is the kanji for world (世) plus the kanji for boundary, domain, realm, or area (界), equaling, literally, "boundary of the world", "area of the world", or "domain of the world", emphasizing its physical nature; the term refers to the entirety of the scope of the world.

Moreover, he uses the term betsu no sekai (別の世界) or "separate world" in describing the alternate timelines created when history is rewritten; for clarification, the word betsu (別) means separate, different, another, extra, etc. When history is rewritten, and the era is forced to restructure itself, a separate world branches from its origin.

未来に行きそして元の世界に戻るのみ
"You can only go to the future and then return to your original world." (episode 54)

Furthermore, in revealing the mechanics of the Time Ring for Zamasu, Gowasu explains the wearer can only travel into the future and only return into their moto no sekai (元の世界) or "original world"; for clarification, the word moto (元) refers to an origin or source—literally speaking, "world of origin".

向こうの世界では―半分 抽出するのに１年近くは かかっていました
"In the other world, it took nearly a year to extract half."

In the present, Future Trunks uses the term mukō no sekai (向こうの世界) when speaking of the future, which, literally, means "other world"—not as in the Other World but, again, in the literal sense; currently located in the present, the world of the future is, simply, the other world he knows.

Spoiler: 世界 vs. 宇宙

全王様は一瞬で どんなものでも消滅させることがおできになるんですよ悪人はもちろん 星はおろか―銀河 そして 宇宙さえ…
その気になれば 世界そのものだってなくしてしまうことが…
"The Omni-King can destroy anything in an instant. Not just villains, but also planets, galaxies, and even the universe itself...
If he so wishes, he could even erase the very world itself." (episode 47)

Whis confirms the scope of the sekai encompasses the uchū (宇宙), which is the universe.

私は お前よりも はるかに高みから―この世界 この宇宙―万物の真理 全てを見ている
"I observe everything from a place far above you… the world, the universe… the truth of all things." (episode 51)

Black, furthermore, uses the terms sekai and uchū independently.

Spoiler: 時代の世界

こうして ザマスとブラックは未来の世界を攻撃したのでしょう
"And so, Zamasu and Black attacked the future world." (episode 58)

The term mirai no sekai (未来の世界) is, literally, "world of the future".

過去の世界で何が起きようと―今の俺には何の影響もない
"No matter what happens in the past world, it has no effect on me as I am now." (episode 61)

The term kako no sekai (過去の世界) is, literally, "world of the past".

Evidently, the world is inside the time period; the world itself is not the time period, though.
The timeline encompasses the world—the Multiverse.
(subject to review)

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

It's bad not just because of the pacing but because the story is horribly written, the characters are dull, completely useless, and contribute nothing to the plot. Every episode is a snoozefest where almost nothing happens outside of the Tamagami episodes. Daima does little more than throw random, unnecessary lore that nobody asked for. The final battle was just as boring, it was literally just Goku endlessly punching Gomah, who refuses to go down thanks to infinite stamina. The main villain is a complete joke (basically Jiren with a clown head), and to top it off, they even ruined SSJ4.

You made nothing but assertions and didn't bother to explain any of them. This isn't any sort of meaningful critique, this is just your opinion. Which is fine, you don't have to like Daima, but being reductive and then treating that like a proper response to my post doesn't leave me a lot to engage with.

For example, 'throws in lore nobody asked for', says who? I remember everyone being super hyped about Rhymus.

'Characters are dull' which ones and why? Glorio and Panzy have been very well received, alongside Duu, Kuu, and Arinsu. All of them are absolutely vital to the plot.

'The final battle was boring'. I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response lol

 

[Alexander]

You made nothing but assertions and didn't bother to explain any of them. This isn't any sort of meaningful critique, this is just your opinion. Which is fine, you don't have to like Daima, but being reductive and then treating that like a proper response to my post doesn't leave me a lot to engage with.

For example, 'throws in lore nobody asked for', says who? I remember everyone being super hyped about Rhymus.

Just because everyone was hyped about it, doesn't mean that it felt unnecessary to introduce a creator of the multiverse, when Zeno sama was already the king of everything, it was more easy to assume he was the creator and not another guy.

Characters are dull' which ones and why? Glorio and Panzy have been very well received, alongside Duu, Kuu, and Arinsu. All of them are absolutely vital to the plot.

Glorio is the "i will betray you guys"...but does almost nothing for the rest of the series, Panzy is just the cute girl that is has smart has bulma but has not even the 10%of Bulma actual story importance, Duu and Kuu...man only Kuu has done anything meaningful for this series...and is not even the best thing you can get from him, Arinsu...just the female character for you know what.
and I'm talking about them as characters, not their importance to the story in the grand scheme of things.

'The final battle was boring'. I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response lol

man, it felt more like they were punching a punching Bag with infinite regeneration rather than actually fighting someone

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Zeno commands the Universes, it was never said that he created anything in DBS, the ones who created all the Universes were other characters.

 

[Prime2024]

You made nothing but assertions and didn't bother to explain any of them. This isn't any sort of meaningful critique, this is just your opinion. Which is fine, you don't have to like Daima, but being reductive and then treating that like a proper response to my post doesn't leave me a lot to engage with.

For example, 'throws in lore nobody asked for', says who? I remember everyone being super hyped about Rhymus.

'Characters are dull' which ones and why? Glorio and Panzy have been very well received, alongside Duu, Kuu, and Arinsu. All of them are absolutely vital to the plot.

'The final battle was boring'. I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response lol

I literally explained almost everything. I didn’t go into full detail, but what I said was clear. The characters are dull because they do absolutely nothing and contribute nothing to the story. There’s no character development and they stay the same from episode 1 to episode 20. You could remove all of them (except Glorio), and the story wouldn’t change at all. That’s not an opinion; it’s a fact. Barely anything happens in each episode except of some minor forgettable fights and some random ass lore, and that’s also a fact.

As for the lore, you brought up Rhymus as if hype justifies its existence. But excitement before something is revealed doesn’t mean it was actually meaningful to the plot. The problem isn’t just that Daima throws in random lore, it’s that this lore serves no purpose to the plot and doesn’t drive the plot forward in any meaningful way. If the story and pacing were good, I wouldn’t care. But they aren’t, so all this extra lore feels like pointless fluff.

The final battle was boring'. I'm not even gonna dignify that with a response lol

Because you have no arguments, I explained in summary why the fight was garbage, I can go one but this will take a while and I don't have time for this...

 

[Alexander]

Zeno commands the Universes, it was never said that he created anything in DBS, the ones who created all the Universes were other characters.

Well, I want to know the damn source where they tell me that it was someone else who created the universes?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

I literally explained almost everything. I didn’t go into full detail, but what I said was clear. The characters are dull because they do absolutely nothing and contribute nothing to the story. There’s no character development and they stay the same from episode 1 to episode 20. You could remove all of them (except Glorio), and the story wouldn’t change at all. That’s not an opinion; it’s a fact. Barely anything happens in each episode except of some minor forgettable fights and some random ass lore, and that’s also a fact.

As for the lore, you brought up Rhymus as if hype justifies its existence. But excitement before something is revealed doesn’t mean it was actually meaningful to the plot. The problem isn’t just that Daima throws in random lore, it’s that this lore serves no purpose to the plot and doesn’t drive the plot forward in any meaningful way. If the story and pacing were good, I wouldn’t care. But they aren’t, so all this extra lore feels like pointless fluff.





Because you have no arguments, I explained in summary why the fight was garbage, I can go one but this will take a while and I don't have time for this...

You can't tell me I have no arguments while quite literally responding with no new arguements. And now your dressing it up as a fact, and it's a fact because.... why? I asked why and you didn't really bother explaining, you just repeated yourself.

 

[Prime2024]

You can't tell me I have no arguments while quite literally responding with no new arguements. And now your dressing it up as a fact, and it's a fact because.... why? I asked why and you didn't really bother explaining, you just repeated yourself.

You ignoring my explanations doesn't make them non existent, you're trying to make my arguments looks bad for the sake of it

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Just because everyone was hyped about it, doesn't mean that it felt unnecessary to introduce a creator of the multiverse, when Zeno sama was already the king of everything, it was more easy to assume he was the creator and not another guy.

Glorio is the "i will betray you guys"...but does almost nothing for the rest of the series, Panzy is just the cute girl that is has smart has bulma but has not even the 10%of Bulma actual story importance, Duu and Kuu...man only Kuu has done anything meaningful for this series...and is not even the best thing you can get from him, Arinsu...just the female character for you know what.
and I'm talking about them as characters, not their importance to the story in the grand scheme of things.

man, it felt more like they were punching a punching Bag with infinite regeneration rather than actually fighting someone

Why did Rhymus feel unnecessary? Zeno was never introduced as the creator of the multiverse, just its ruler. So Zeno existing doesn't make Rhymus unnecessary. That's dumb.

Just like the other guy, your acting like being reductive is proper reasoning. Glorio and Panzy are quite clearly vehicles to tell us about the demon realm and it's people, while Arinsu and her little circle of Duu and Kuu are there for DB'S usual antagonist isn't actually evil thing. So they all have quite clear roles, and all address and engage in the story.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Well, I want to know the damn source where they tell me that it was someone else who created the universes?

Daima claims that another being created the Universe, Zeno is just the guy who takes care of the Universes, if you can show me where it says that Zeno created all 12 Universes?

 

[Prime2024]

Why did Rhymus feel unnecessary? Zeno was never introduced as the creator of the multiverse, just its ruler. So Zeno existing doesn't make Rhymus unnecessary. That's dumb.

Just like the other guy, your acting like being reductive is proper reasoning. Glorio and Panzy are quite clearly vehicles to tell us about the demon realm and it's people, while Arinsu and her little circle of Duu and Kuu are there for DB'S usual antagonist isn't actually evil thing. So they all have quite clear roles, and all address and engage in the story.

It was unnecessary because it doesn't advance to the plot, it literally has no impact on the plot whatsoever, stop being ignorant

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You ignoring my explanations doesn't make them non existent

Lol what explanations? I'm not ignoring shit, I'm just working off what you've said in this conversation, which has been assertions 'x is boring' or 'y is bad', and when I ask why x and y is bad, you go 'I've already explained'.

 

[Prime2024]

Lol what explanations? I'm not ignoring shit, I'm just working off what you've said in this conversation, which has been assertions 'x is boring' or 'y is bad', and when I ask why x and y is bad, you go 'I've already explained'.

And I explained why it's boring, again you're simply ignoring what I said

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

It was unnecessary because it doesn't advance to the plot, it literally has no impact on the plot whatsoever, stop being ignorant

The origin of the multiverse itself is an unimportant piece of world building? Bro wut

Calling me ignorant while yapping the dumbest shit possible

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

And I explained why it's boring, again you're simply ignoring what I said

You're doing it again lol. How many times will we go in this circle of you shying away from backing your assertions? Cuz we are up to two, can we shoot for three?

 

[Alexander]

Why did Rhymus feel unnecessary? Zeno was never introduced as the creator of the multiverse, just its ruler. So Zeno existing doesn't make Rhymus unnecessary. That's dumb.

Why then wouldn't the one who created it be the one who governs it?also it was never said there was a creator of the multiverse other than...well, Zeno being the most feared and respected between the gods, i mean, why would that be not obvious?

Just like the other guy, your acting like being reductive is proper reasoning. Glorio and Panzy are quite clearly vehicles to tell us about the demon realm and it's people, while Arinsu and her little circle of Duu and Kuu are there for DB'S usual antagonist isn't actually evil thing. So they all have quite clear roles, and all address and engage in the story.

i am talking to them, has characters, not has elements in the story

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Why then wouldn't the one who created it be the one who governs it?also it was never said there was a creator of the multiverse other than...well, Zeno being the most feared and respected between the gods, i mean, why would that be not obvious?

i am talking to them, has characters, not has elements in the story

Dragon Ball already has an established dichotomy of destroyer and creator gods. So it's not obvious. If anything there being a creator god version of Zeno makes sense.

 

[Alexander]

Daima claims that another being created the Universe, Zeno is just the guy who takes care of the Universes, if you can show me where it says that Zeno created all 12 Universes?

man, he was considered the most powerful in the multiverse, he governed everything...so why it is out of the logic that he, also can create anything?why is that out the logic?

 

[StekFence]

Why then wouldn't the one who created it be the one who governs it?also it was never said there was a creator of the multiverse other than...well, Zeno being the most feared and respected between the gods, i mean, why would that be not obvious?

True, architects also run every building, also, the most powerful and scary person is automatically in charge, as in real life, truly intelligent take

 

[StekFence]

man, he was considered the most powerful in the multiverse, he governed everything...so why it is out of the logic that he, also can create anything?why is that out the logic?

Feel free to make a crt based on this evidence that exists outside your imagination then

 

[Prime2024]

The origin of the multiverse itself is an unimportant piece of world building? Bro wut

Calling me ignorant while yapping the dumbest shit possible

You're acting like I said all world-building is bad when my actual point was that Daima's lore dumps don’t meaningfully impact the story. World-building is great when it enhances the narrative, but Daima just throws in random background details without making them relevant or engaging lol.

Take the multiverse origin, for example : sure, it could be an interesting addition, but does it actually change anything in Daima? Does it influence the main plot in a meaningful way? No. It’s just another lore drop that exists for the sake of existing. If the story itself were compelling, this extra information might feel rewarding. But when the pacing is sluggish and the plot barely moves forward, all this extra lore just feels like unnecessary fluff.

You can call my argument dumb all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that you still haven’t addressed the core issues I brought up.

 

[Alexander]

Dragon Ball already has an established dichotomy of destroyer and creator gods. So it's not obvious. If anything there being a creator god version of Zeno makes sense.

makes it look more worse than what it actually is, also we didn't even see the Zalama, man, that guy is the most non existent person ever.

 

[Alexander]

Feel free to make a crt based on this evidence that exists outside your imagination then

...there is not even a profile for Rymus

 

[Prime2024]

You're doing it again lol. How many times will we go in this circle of you shying away from backing your assertions? Cuz we are up to two, can we shoot for three?

And you're ignoring my arguments again, it's not going to change anything

 

[Alexander]

True, architects also run every building, also, the most powerful and scary person is automatically in charge, as in real life, truly intelligent take

Sure, good example, or wait, how about this one?
The Maker created or rather, helped the creation of Nevada (or the occurrence) but the one who governs Nevada is the higher powers and the Machine, not him.

 

[Kroneii1]

To describe Zen-Oh as the "most eminent god in the universe" does not restrict the scope of Zen-Oh's presence to a singular universe. As the Omni-King, in all universes, he is the most eminent god; if he ranks No. 1 in the entire multiverse, he ranks No. 1 in every individual universe as well.

Also, the terms used in describing the Multiverse, the individual universes, and parallel timelines are straightforward.

Spoiler: 時代

Any time a character references their current timeline, they use term jidai (時代), which refers to an era or period of time; like, say, the Heian jidai—or "Heian period", the period of peace. However, when distinguishing between the individual eras, they use the terms kako (過去), genzai (現在), and mirai (未来); or, literally, past, present, and future.

For example,

Spoiler: 世界

Gowasu uses the term sekai (世界), which is the kanji for world (世) plus the kanji for boundary, domain, realm, or area (界), equaling, literally, "boundary of the world", "area of the world", or "domain of the world", emphasizing its physical nature; the term refers to the entirety of the scope of the world.

Moreover, he uses the term betsu no sekai (別の世界) or "separate world" in describing the alternate timelines created when history is rewritten; for clarification, the word betsu (別) means separate, different, another, extra, etc. When history is rewritten, and the era is forced to restructure itself, a separate world branches from its origin.

Furthermore, in revealing the mechanics of the Time Ring for Zamasu, Gowasu explains the wearer can only travel into the future and only return into their moto no sekai (元の世界) or "original world"; for clarification, the word moto (元) refers to an origin or source—literally speaking, "world of origin".

In the present, Future Trunks uses the term mukō no sekai (向こうの世界) when speaking of the future, which, literally, means "other world"—not as in the Other World but, again, in the literal sense; currently located in the present, the world of the future is, simply, the other world he knows.

Spoiler: 世界 vs. 宇宙

Whis confirms the scope of the sekai encompasses the uchū (宇宙), which is the universe.

Black, furthermore, uses the terms sekai and uchū independently.

Spoiler: 時代の世界

The term mirai no sekai (未来の世界) is, literally, "world of the future".

The term kako no sekai (過去の世界) is, literally, "world of the past".

Evidently, the world is inside the time period; the world itself is not the time period, though.
The timeline encompasses the world—the Multiverse.
(subject to review)

I also forgot to mention that in that timeline that is on the toei page years ago, they use the word universe again to refer to the entire multiverse.
I remember it said "future universe" which again shows that the words are interchangeable.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

man, he was considered the most powerful in the multiverse, he governed everything...so why it is out of the logic that he, also can create anything?why is that out the logic?

And what refutes what I said? Zeno never created anything, his power is literally to erase everything from existence, he can be a supreme commander of the Gods of destruction.

Zeno is a being who stands at the top of all 12 universes

The creator of the Universes reigns over the Kaioshins who create countless planets and stars, as well as lives throughout the Universe.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

You're acting like I said all world-building is bad when my actual point was that Daima's lore dumps don’t meaningfully impact the story. World-building is great when it enhances the narrative, but Daima just throws in random background details without making them relevant or engaging lol.

Take the multiverse origin, for example : sure, it could be an interesting addition, but does it actually change anything in Daima? Does it influence the main plot in a meaningful way? No. It’s just another lore drop that exists for the sake of existing. If the story itself were compelling, this extra information might feel rewarding. But when the pacing is sluggish and the plot barely moves forward, all this extra lore just feels like unnecessary fluff.

You can call my argument dumb all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that you still haven’t addressed the core issues I brought up.

Requiring any and all world building to be immediately relevant and game changing is silly. I didn't say you said all world building was bad, I said us learning more about the origins of Namekians, Glinds, and the creation of the multiverse, etc, is pretty meaningful considering how important all these concepts are to Dragon Ball.

Not to mention, there is tons of immediately relevant exposition and world building in Daima like past Demon Kings, the Third Eye, and the creation of Majin Buu.

If you don't find that to be an interesting addition that's fine, and I agree the show should've used some of its time more wisely, but the lore drops we did get were pretty big and added context and history to a ton of recurring story elements in Dragon Ball. And I really wouldn't describe any of it as 'thrown in'.

So lore drops of that magnitude are the farthest thing from fluff. There is fluff in Daima, but this example isn't it.

Plus I already find the core of Daima's story to be compelling, as it's a perfect summarization of the sort of universe Dragon Ball is and the people who live in it, so that added lore was welcome to me.

So if you actually make an arguement, yeah I'll engage with it, but this is the first time you've actually bothered to elaborate rather than just throw jabs and go 'nuh uh I already did' when I ask you to explain your assertions.

 

[Alexander]

And what refutes what I said? Zeno never created anything, his power is literally to erase everything from existence, he can be a supreme commander of the Gods of destruction.

except he also rules over the Glind

The creator of the Universes reigns over the Kaioshins who create countless planets and stars, as well as lives throughout the Universe.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

makes it look more worse than what it actually is, also we didn't even see the Zalama, man, that guy is the most non existent person ever.

Wut

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

makes it look more worse than what it actually is, also we didn't even see the Zalama, man, that guy is the most non existent person ever.

Zalama it's just Super Sheron, there is no super namekuseijin

 

[Alexander]

Wut

Zalama, the creator of the super dragon balls, you know, like the most powerful things in this verse...and the guy is just non existent?

 

[Alexander]

Zalama it's just Super Sheron, there is no super namekuseijin

Wait wait wait wait wait...what? Are you telling me that the dragon that is summoned with spheres the size of planets...is the creator of its own spheres? What paradox is this?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Zalama, the creator of the super dragon balls, you know, like the most powerful things in this verse...and the guy is just non existent?

I know who he is, I just had no idea what point you were trying to make with the first half of your comment

 

[Alexander]

I know who he is, I just had no idea what point you were trying to make with the first half of your comment

out of nothing we have the creator of the universe...just like that.