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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

TegamiBachi25 said:
That said, I don't agree with combining Anime DB to Manga because you get people like Seth trying to combine the two like they're the same. Then you also get people like Seth who wank Dragon Ball, since you get him and death battle trying to combine DBS anime and manga like they're the same story.
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Many people outside the wiki do confuse Toei with the manga, and it's tiring trying to correct them
 
Huesito88 said:
We also can't read
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"This is why I avoid DBZ threads, having to repeat the exact same stuff like ten times a post, after already doing so ten times a thread due to the repetition of the same thing being said multiple times per post or the same argument repeated under a different veil, quickly adds up and makes shit a hassle to both read and write, I want out lads🗿" - Chariot "Iron"190

I just skimmed through that thread for the fun and it made me remember a few guys. There used to be a guy who read the manga (Goku v Hit) fight while debating and the best way to describe dudes arguments is ... "bro cant read"

Another guy on comicvine said that even pro athletes could predict Hit since all they gotta do is predict Hit and the reacting part is easy since reacting is easier when you know you get hit. I mean even ignoring that Hit can appear anywhere in a 360 degree angle ... all you need is this panel and check Vados statement. Dragonball does indeed attract very special guys. I dont think ive ever experienced anything like it.

dragon-ball-super-13-13.jpg
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Many people outside the wiki do confuse Toei with the manga, and it's tiring trying to correct them
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Tiring of people saying that the trunks future timeline is confusing, when it really isnt.

Dbs manga follows the trunks, the lone warrior manga chapter and dbz manga, along with a special short chapter that showed gohan surviving and the pilaf gang making a wish with the dragon balls that turned them into babies.

DBS anime follows their own animation that was based on history of trunks.

Dbz toei follows the history of trunks made specifically to fill in more in depth of his future.

Simple enough if people didn't try adding them together like some DC comic continuity event. Exactly why I'm getting the Dbs manga myself to educate myself on the differences, because i've made that same mistake in the past, and dbs manga so far has some things i like better than the anime
 
TegamiBachi25 said:
Tiring of people saying that the trunks future timeline is confusing, when it really isnt.

Dbs manga follows the trunks, the lone warrior manga chapter and dbz manga, along with a special short chapter that showed gohan surviving and the pilaf gang making a wish with the dragon balls that turned them into babies.

DBS anime follows their own animation that was based on history of trunks.

Dbz toei follows the history of trunks made specifically to fill in more in depth of his future.

Simple enough if people didn't try adding them together like some DC comic continuity event. Exactly why I'm getting the Dbs manga myself to educate myself on the differences, because i've made that same mistake in the past, and dbs manga so far has some things i like better than the anime
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Ngl, Seth mixing up all these three is funny..

Becouse not only the narratives are different but also the powerscaling is aswell.

If you knew how hard is to deal with people, telling them that there is a "Toei verse" continuity where characters in the Namek Saga are already like, Multi solar system level to Galactic, they lose their minds, or telling them that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu (only in the anime), people get all the DB canon mixed up as a sort of composite
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
We already accept Toei-verse and GT by default having infinite sized Universes.

People are now arguing for Canon Dragon Ball to have it????.
Like, the guides that said the universe was infinite only applies to the Z Anime and GT plus the Z movies.
However, those guides were specifically made for the Toei dbz anime, not DBZ manga and DBZ Kai that precedes DBS.

So people are now trying to force it on Daima and Super? lol...atleast in GT there is a mention of infinite sized Universe, there is 0 in the DBS Anime, manga or Daima lol
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Seth, Official Divine, and rest of DB powerscalers: Nah, it's accepted for all continuities.
 
Honestly, the only reason I even care about pre-King Piccolo Saga scaling right now is because of how Chi-Chi, Videl, and Mr. Satan are affected.
 
TegamiBachi25 said:
you can also change it to not reading Dbs manga since there's some idiots out there who genuinely think dbs manga isn't canon despite toriyama working on it with toyotaro, or scaling dbs anime to manga like they're the same continuity
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Canonicity is probably this fanbases' worst problem, there is literally no agreed upon canon for the overall community
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Canonicity is probably this fanbases' worst problem, there is literally no agreed upon canon for the overall community
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Which is funny because terms like "official history" (正史 seishi; 1, 2, 3), and "official sequel" (正統続編 seitō zokuhen), and "source material" (原作 gensaku, lit. original work; 1, 2), and "official participation" (正式参加 seishiki sanka), and "story" (物語 monogatari; i.e., in regards to an expansive narrative), etc. are frequently used by supplementary and promotional material, and works are often described as either "original [stories]" (オリジナルストーリー orijinaru sutōrī), "linked to [the original story]" or "[continuations] of the manga's serialization", within "parallel [worlds]" (平行世界 heikō sekai; or パラレルワールド parareru wārudo) or "completely different [worlds]" (完全な別世界 kanzen na bessekai), "not [synchronizing]" (時間軸がシンクロしない jikanjiku ga shinkuro shinai), or "unique to [themselves]".
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Still kind of pissy that we count the Z films to be canon when even the series acknowledges them to be apart from the story many times
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canon to the Z anime only


All the scans that say movies are its own thing are vague, becouse they do not specify to which "original" continuity they are talking about, the anime or the manga, and Toriyama said that they are alternate canon to the comic.

Also, the fact that villians like Garlick Jr had a whole saga dedicated to him in the anime and he did remember the events of the movie.
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
If you say so.
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They still happened, not all, but many of them. For example Vegeta remembering Tuffle's ki in GT when the race was wiped out almost entirely before he was even born, which hints the Hatchijack thing happened. The two aliens that appeared in the broly movie do debut in the Z anime iirc.
Look, Garlick jr happened in the Z anime aswell, he remembered the events of the movie and the characters used the holy water to disinfect the people baby possesed in GT, he also appeared in GT.
And also, Koyama said he wrote the movies with the intend in mind of connecting them to the Z Anime, the problem was that Toei's production was ahead of him. Just becouse there are some plotholes it doesn't invalidate the author's intent. There is also the dragon fist which Goku knows and the stuff like that, GT is a direct continuation of the Z anime and movies.
There are much more evidence for the movies being canon to the anime continuity than whatnot despite the plotholes. We always go by the visual and blatant evidence in the show, not the hardest and most complicated one.

Seriously, you guys are not the author, you don't hold any authority towards the series, you are just random powerscalers in the internet whose opinion doesnt hold a candle to Toei's production. You are free to make up your own headcanons and fanfictions, but at the end of the day what matters is what the people that own the product say, not the consumer. They do not have the obligation to appeal your desires nor your sense.

Dragon Ball fans always trying to put some sense in the places that lack it entirely. No one knows why Krilin in DBS got stronger than BOG SSG goku, no one knows why Pan from GT is ridicously stronger than most of DBZ. No one knows.

Im nothing, neither you or the rest of the DB Fans are someone to question the plot's narrative choices, even if those do not make sense. I will always trust Toei's or Koyama's words more than any of you. Werether you like it or not, WOG and a series plot does not care about mine or your feelings in the slightest, either you take it ot leave it.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
canon to the Z anime only


All the scans that say movies are its own thing are vague, becouse they do not specify to which "original" continuity they are talking about, the anime or the manga, and Toriyama said that they are alternate canon to the comic.
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The scans are from the daizenshuu which is for both the anime and manga, and it directly tells us it's different from the TV Show for many films

Just a few examples

There's definitely more nuance to it than just "they're with non-canon or canon to the anime" Garlic Jr is an obvious exception, having his own arc, being part of a timeline same as GT in the chozenshuu, and the movie-time chart (which has said directly when other movies are inconsistent or different worlds/stories entirely) stating it must take place in between events of the actual anime.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
The scans are from the daizenshuu which is for both the anime and manga, and it directly tells us it's different from the TV Show for many films

Just a few examples

There's definitely more nuance to it than just "they're with non-canon or canon to the anime" Garlic Jr is an obvious exception, having his own arc, being part of a timeline same as GT in the chozenshuu, and the movie-time chart (which has said directly when other movies are inconsistent or different worlds/stories entirely) stating it must take place in between events of the actual anime.
Click to expand...

Just becouse both are for the anime and manga doesn't mean it's talking about all them in certain contexts.
Toriyama explicitly said the movies are alternate to the comic which is obviously refering to the manga.
DBZ Anime is a different continuity, with it's exclusive content. Also Cooler is another canon to GT and the Z anime by default.
Koyama also said that he has in mind the Toei Anime connecting to the movies, and I already pointed out the hints. Just that there are plotholes but the intent from him and Toei was clear.

GT is not part of the original history, is it's own narrative with it's own path that follows anime filler and movies. Vegeta knowing tuffle's ki in GT, Goku knowing the dragon Fist, Trunks having Tapion's sword, Cooler appearing, etc.

We have to analyze the statements about movies being an alternate dimension, or being it's own thing strictly. Broad statements can't be taken slightly
 
Ednaxel2 said:
In literally all if not most contexts it's directly talking about the anime
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It's not, most of them are vague a do not explain much. So saying werether is one or another is up to interpretation.

And even if what u said was legit, it's contradicted in the main Toei shows such as GT with all the movie elements we see. We are not gonna assume all Movie elements that appear in the anime are easter eggs, the burden proof is on us. When there are two logical conclusions, we always go for the easier one
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
It's not, most of them are vague a do not explain much. So saying werether is one or another is up to interpretation.
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"a completely different world from the TV show" in no world is that vague
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
it's contradicted in the main Toei shows such as GT with all the movie elements we see
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Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
GT is not part of the original history, is it's own narrative with it's own path that follows anime filler and movies.
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You say GT is one of the main shows but before you said it's not??
 
Ednaxel2 said:
"a completely different world from the TV show" in no world is that vague
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Just becouse an old guide said it, doesn't make that statement true if we go by visual feats and statements in the main series that hint otherwise. We also got multiple of other statements from other guides that are vague and only apply to the manga continuity like Akira calling them a different dimension from the comic.
Look, not all the Z movies are canon to the anime, but SOME are, and the scan saying all the movies in general are separate from the show, without specifying obvious exceptions such as Cooler or Garlick Jr.....is a bad start, they are already contradicting themselves calling all movies exclusive from the show and then they make Garlick Jr appearing in the TV screen later.


Ednaxel2 said:
You say GT is one of the main shows but before you said it's not??
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I said GT is one of the main shows of Toei, is a anime-exclusive production of Toei, yes. And it doesn't follow the events of the original story (what Toriyama wrote) entirely.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Just becouse an old guide said it, doesn't make that statement true if we go by visual feats and statements in the main series that hint otherwise.
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All of this is old evidence, though
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
We also got multiple of other statements from other guides that are vague and only apply to the manga continuity like Akira calling them a different dimension from the comic.
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That doesn't dismiss the previous evidence at all, it would just mean it's also non-canon to the manga
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Look, not all the Z movies are canon to the anime, but SOME are, and the scan saying all the movies in general are separate from the show, without specifying obvious exceptions such as Cooler or Garlick Jr.....is a bad start, they are already contradicting themselves calling all movies exclusive from the show and then they make Garlick Jr appearing in the TV screen later.
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I definitely agree that some are undeniably canon, Cooler's Revenge and Dead Zone being the obvious ones. I apologize for not being specific at all in my original post
 
Ednaxel2 said:
I definitely agree that some are undeniably canon, Cooler's Revenge and Dead Zone being the obvious ones. I apologize for not being specific at all in my original post
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I got it like this.

First Cooler movie; canon.

Garlick jr: absolutely canon.

--1st and second Broly Movies: canon (we see some hints in the anime such as the two aliens there, someone cosplaying as Broly (Most likely a fan) or either was broly himself and was an artistical mistake drowing him blonde and all of that in base, when goku went to train in the afterlife saga. Not too many contradictions, still.

--Hatchijack OVA/Movie: canon (There is no other logical explanation as of why Vegeta remembers and has knowledge of Tuffle's ki in GT, as that race got extinct before he was even born.


--Hildegarn's movie: Absolutely (Barely any contradictions, would explain as of how Goku knows Dragon fist and Trunks weilds Tapion's sword in GT).


--Fusion reborn: Canon, despite the hilarious plotholes, GT perfect files do connect Super Gogeta to SSJ4 Gogeta in a timeline chart, also the fact that Vegeta knows about the fusion dance and got the moves right at the first try (thing he didnt knew in the DBS broly movie, we also see Hell already warped and changed from how it was shown in the DBZ filler, which hints it was most likely due to Janemba's reality warping).




Now if take at face value the statement of movies being exclusive, the non-canon ones or the ones with zero evidence in the Z anime, GT or guides: Bojack movie, Turles movie, Bio Broly, Lord slug, Metal Cooler, Dr Wheelo, Battle of Gods, Android 13.
 
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Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
I got it like this.

First Cooler movie; canon.

Garlick jr: absolutely canon.

--1st and second Broly Movies: canon (we see some hints in the anime such as the two aliens there, someone cosplaying as Broly (Most likely a fan) or either was broly himself and was an artistical mistake drowing him blonde and all of that in base, when goku went to train in the afterlife saga. Not too many contradictions, still.

--Hatchijack OVA/Movie: canon (There is no other logical explanation as of why Vegeta remembers and has knowledge of Tuffle's ki in GT, as that race got extinct before he was even born.


--Hildegarn's movie: Absolutely (Barely any contradictions, would explain as of how Goku knows Dragon fist and Trunks weilds Tapion's sword in GT).


--Fusion reborn: Canon, despite the hilarious plotholes, GT perfect files do connect Super Gogeta to SSJ4 Gogeta in a timeline chart, also the fact that Vegeta knows about the fusion dance and got the moves right at the first try (thing he didnt knew in the DBS broly movie, we also see Hell already warped and changed from how it was shown in the DBZ filler, which hints it was most likely due to Janemba's reality warping).




Now if take at face value the statement of movies being exclusive, the non-canon ones or the ones with zero evidence in the Z anime, GT or guides: Bojack movie, Turles movie, Bio Broly, Lord slug, Metal Cooler, Dr Wheelo, Battle of Gods, Android 13.
Click to expand...
I disagree with Broly and I'm iffy on Fusion Reborn (agree to disagree 🤷‍♂️) but the rest I agree.
 
Ednaxel2 said:
I disagree with Broly and I'm iffy on Fusion Reborn (agree to disagree 🤷‍♂️) but the rest I agree.
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The thing about Broly is that there aren't significant narrative contradictions within the anime story line, the first movie was supposed to take place few days before the Cell games, the second movie was after Goku's death and before the Majin Buu saga, Goku was already dead there aswell.
Also, as I said, two characters from the Broly movie do appear aswell in the anime, and Broly or a cosplayer appeared too, in the afterlife saga, which suggest Broly did indeed exist within the DBZ anime timeline or he was widely known, and that wouldn't make sense if the broly movies were entirely separate.

Also, the fact that, in GT. As I said previously, without entering into the pure speculative territory, Vegeta does remember and recognizes Tuffle's ki despite all the members of this race being extinct already for thousands of years before he was even born, and mind you, the Tuffle race is a Toei exclusive element that only appeared in the GT continuity and The plan to erradicate the Super Saiyans, and Vegeta never heard of or knew about Dr Myu's existance till the Baby arc iirc, which tells us the Hachijack movie events did happen, and for extension, Goku says Hatchijack's power was even greater than Broly's, which forcefully makes the timeline dots connect despite some minor inconscistencys present, and by default Broly gets sucked in too.
The Hachijack movie is a DBZ side story/and special just like Cooler's.
 
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Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
For example Vegeta remembering Tuffle's ki in GT when the race was wiped out almost entirely before he was even born, which hints the Hatchijack thing happened.
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No, Vegeta identifying Baby as a Tuffle does not confirm that the events of Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans—the "original story" (オリジナルストーリー), the "side story" (外伝), the "game-original story" (ゲームオリジナルストーリー)—took place. nO oNe kNoWs how Vegeta can identify Tuffle Ki.

Evidently, though, encountering Dr. Lychee, the ghost, is not the explanation.
In fact, I think Goku was struggling to locate Lychee.
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
The two aliens that appeared in the broly movie do debut in the Z anime iirc.
Click to expand...
The Shamoians or the Litts? Because the Litts exist in the original story.
And the Shamoians never appear again.
And, yes, obviously, the Z movie based upon the Z anime utilizes characters and concepts originating in the Z anime.
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Look, Garlick jr happened in the Z anime aswell, he remembered the events of the movie and the characters used the holy water to disinfect the people baby possesed in GT, he also appeared in GT.
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Yes, the character of Garlic Jr. and the events of Dead Zone are canon within the story of the TV anime not only because they are explicitly confirmed as such, but because they appear in the TV anime, because they are directly connected to the TV anime.
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Goku knowing the dragon Fist,
Click to expand...
Funny you mention it,


Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Trunks having Tapion's sword
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Is that ever confirmed?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
No, Vegeta identifying Baby as a Tuffle does not confirm that the events of Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans—the "original story" (オリジナルストーリー), the "side story" (外伝), the "game-original story" (ゲームオリジナルストーリー)—took place. nO oNe kNoWs how Vegeta can identify Tuffle Ki.

Evidently, though, encountering Dr. Lychee, the ghost, is not the explanation.
In fact, I think Goku was struggling to locate Lychee.
Click to expand...
Point being? Doesn't mean they didn't sense him at the end. And evidently Hatchijack had bits of Tuffle ki.

Sorry to tell you this, but you know it yourself you don't have a better explanation for this. Doesn't help that the Tuffle race thingy is an exclusive Toei product, both the Hatchijack's special and DBGT being their product.


Nullflowerblush said:
The Shamoians or the Litts? Because the Litts exist in the original story.
And the Shamoians never appear again.
And, yes, obviously, the Z movie based upon the Z anime utilizes characters and concepts originating in the Z anime.
Click to expand...
Yes, and the Shamos are shown with a halo, dead, which correlates with the events of the movie where Broly exterminates most of them. Unless you can proof those are just a cameo, it's a Ocam razor's argument coming from your part.

And the Saiyan gang being in base form in the first Broly movie is also nitpicking at it's finest. Saiyans can depower themselves, you know? They kept the FP SSJ transformations before the Cell games, yes, but that doesn't mean he needs to be in that form all the time 24/7, breaks exist you know?, Saiyans do actually need to focus on their ki to keep their transformations active.





Nullflowerblush said:
Is that ever confirmed?
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Let me reverse the question, is it ever confirmed is not Tapion's sword?

Becouse, most of the evidences do points out Warth of the dragon being canon, like, it's not even a debate, it's a fact. Doesn't have any contradictions and was one of the first movies we accepted.

The burden proof is on you. Or Goku just magically knows the dragon fist in GT?
 
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