All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

[RedReaper616]

I just discovered where's the confusion coming from
The profile states, quite clearly so, that his energy was restored at a later point, not when he got out of Buu

I-
Yes?
I already said that.

That’s talking about the Kid Buu fight. Goku facing Buu in the Spirit Bomb struggle.

I’m talking about literally exiting Buu before he ever fought Kid Buu.

When in Buu, Goku was nerfed. When he’s not in Buu, he’s not nerfed. The “Increase” here is just annotating his power when he’s not nerfed. Hence why I said “Goku didn’t get stronger.” Because he didn’t. His stats did not change in an indexable sense, because Goku did not get stronger. He was just no longer affected by Buu’s Stat Reduction Hax inside his body, which was nerfing him.

Again, you're talking about something entirely different. You're talking about Goku getting restored by the Dragon Balls. Against Kid Buu. In the Spirit Bomb Struggle.

I'M talking about where Goku scales after he defused from Vegito. Where he fights a 2-C Character. While Nerfed.

I've been quite clear with this. So I do not get where the Confusion is coming from.

 

[Nonynho]

Again, you're talking about something entirely different. You're talking about Goku getting restored by the Dragon Balls. Against Kid Buu. In the Spirit Bomb Struggle.

I'M talking about where Goku scales after he defused from Vegito. Where he fights a 2-C Character. While Nerfed.

I've been quite clear with this. So I do not get where the Confusion is coming from.

Well, from what we have in the profile, it's exactly what I said, because nothing indicate that there was 2 heals/debuff-cancels, and the phrasing even indicate that he fought the Gohan clone in base, and I'm pretty sure that both us and the profile are speaking about the same: Base nerfed goku.
So when the profiles says "higher when restored" and indicates the Dragon Balls restoring him, that means that it's not an entirely different thing, that the Dragon Balls are what took off his debuff

 

[RedReaper616]

Well, from what we have in the profile, it's exactly what I said, because nothing indicate that there was 2 heals/debuff-cancels, and the phrasing even indicate that he fought the Gohan clone in base, and I'm pretty sure that both us and the profile are speaking about the same: Base nerfed goku.
So when the profiles says "higher when restored" and indicates the Dragon Balls restoring him, that means that it's not an entirely different thing, that the Dragon Balls are what took off his debuff

I am going
To
Strangle
YOU

That's because there was not 2 Heals. There is "Inside Buu" and "Outside Buu."

When Inside Buu, and only inside Buu, Goku is nerfed to 1%. Verbatim. When he escaped, he is at normal size and full power, because he is no longer Inside Buu.

Thus, escaping Buu did not buff him. As he didn't increase to a new level of strength. He just returned to his original strength he always had when he defused from Vegito. As such, there isn't an increase recorded on the profile, because Goku didn't increase. He was just no longer reduced.

It's that simple.

 

[Nonynho]

It's that simple.

Look, you ain't fighting me, ur fighting what was approved as the profile and unfortunately the scaling chain stops at Cell Saga, so that's what we have to base ourselves in for matchmaking purposes.

Spoiler: If u going to stay mad, don't even bother

that's our text

Low Multiverse level (Fought nearly on par with a perfect clone of Ultimate Gohan in his base form), far higher with Super Saiyan transformations (Quickly overwhelmed that clone as a Super Saiyan. Matched Kid Buu as a Super Saiyan 3 and claimed that he could have defeated him if he finished the fight quickly), even higher after having his stamina restored ([...] then effortlessly overpowered Kid Buu in the struggle over the Spirit Bomb as a mere Super Saiyan)

with the other key stopping at the Innocent Buu (and jumping to the Janemba movie) then speaking about this at post-fusion, which leaves us with the conclusion that:

Tired Goku ~ Gohan Clone < Buuhan feat < Roughly 400x gap < SS3 Tired Goku ~ Kid Buu ~ Base Restored Goku

But you say that he had the 1% debuff removed after getting out of Buu, so you state that:

1% Goku ~ Gohan Clone < Buuhan feat < 50x gap < Out of Buu Base Goku < Roughly 400x gap < Out of Buu SS3 Goku ~ Kid Buu ~ Base Restored Goku

But for that to be true, the key should be rewritten, somewhat like this:

At most Low Multiverse level (Being inside of Buu he got a debuff that makes him 1% of his power, and fought that clone of Gohan while there), Low Multiverse level outside of Buu (Should be 50x stronger than Buuhan now) far higher with Super Saiyan transformations (lorem ipsum), even higher after having his energy restored (lorem ipsum)

TL;DR you need a CRT for what u say to be true in the profile. If discussing is getting u mad, don't think it's best for us to keep this, imma ask someone in their walls or smth

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

TL;DR you need a CRT for what u say to be true in the profile. If discussing is getting u mad, don't think it's best for us to keep this, imma ask someone in their walls or smth

It's kinda already accepted that the shrunk down versions of Goku and Vegeta are weaker than their regular sized ones in Buu's profile, but that profile also lists Super Buu as being around the SSJ version of the two, making him x50 Ultimate Gohan???
So it is pretty weird.

 

[Nonynho]

So it is pretty weird.

This should get a CRT done then
So his conclusion is 100% correct?

 

[Eden5Zeroo]

wut namek is 50 times bigger than sun

??????????

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

So his conclusion is 100% correct?

Them not being able to fold Super Buu is probably more integral to the plot than the Ultimate Gohan encounter so maybe not.

 

[Nonynho]

Them not being able to fold Super Buu is probably more integral to the plot than the Ultimate Gohan encounter so maybe not.

may i please ask you to read both side's inputs and give your opinion on the matter?

 

[Eden5Zeroo]

Its interesting how everything began, a super interesting team with a pretty unique mangaka who did those things in like two days and used his free time building toy models and shit XD ^^ ....

Me still havent finished with every single interview, BUUUT its pretty funny that the only way to quit Toriyama’s first manga was if he would mamke something more interesting. I think the same was said about DRAGONBALL!!!

According to a post from a guy who competes, Toriyama knew kung fu movies inside and out, and thats why the martial arts philosophy in dragonball is top notch. According to Toriyama, his words were like: "Yeah... I was stupid enough to tell that to my editor, so he told me: "Why dont you try to draw something like that in that direction?" And Toriyama was like: "Oh boy... But liking something and wanting to draw it are two completely different things, so I didnt particularly want to do that."

Thats basically how DB started^^ What I found out while reading a debate (me fact checked it today and is real! XD)

Gonna quote it!

Well, it must be Roshi/Toriyama. He practically said himself he’s a pervert, haha. That's the reason he didn't make it a fighting manga straight away. He knew everyone would love the fighting and was familiar wtih the polls, but deep down ... my man Toriyama was just a pervy guy who wanted to draw silly stuff first which makes sense, he was originally a gag mangaka at heart.

That's why the story started with a road trip before becoming a battle comic. He tried to slow down the fighting a little during the Red Ribbon arc, but in the end, he just gave up completely and made it a proper fighter in the next big story.

After that, due to the Tenka’ichi Budōkai the focus of the series shifted towards battles.

What happened was, it just kept getting less and less popular. Torishima-san was really on my case about it, saying “nobody likes it!” and mean stuff like that. (laughs) From the start I had thought in the back of my mind that since it was a shōnen manga it would be better received if I drew battles, but because I’m perverse I kept sticking with Journey to the West.

So you shifted towards battles.

Well, I got tired of him going on and on about the popularity polls all the time. (laughs) Though I was reluctant to do it, the series’ popularity did indeed start to pick up around the Tenka’ichi Budōkai… And despite my reluctance, it still felt pretty good. (laughs)

Then after that, you returned to the adventure format with the Red Ribbon Army.

I tried to fight it. (laughs) I had Arale-chan make an appearance, and made things comical, and it felt like a struggle. But in the end, I couldn’t even satisfy myself, so I decided to bite the bullet and make it all about the fighting. Once that decision was out of the way, I felt a lot better.

The db team was pretty interesting with a lot of funny things, but been thinking about a team that could change the entire anime landscape...

I think nothing beats this team here!

Editor: Torishima. Hes pretty strict and doesnt really care about your health so to make everything in balance, me also like to add Kondo as he cared more about the authors and was on their side.

Story: Horii Yuj!!!!! His writing and ideas are fresh every entry and top notch since Day 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Power Scaling: Saint Seiya ... but I sure as hell dont know which author. I didnt even know it had a female author! XD

From art to everything else: Toriyama. And the fact he sticks to his ideas, no matter what, but he realizes when it’s time to hang it up and go in the right direction. And the fact he could create such a masterwork in like two days is pretty dope, so theres no doubt he could help Yuji with one or two things, and Toriyama loves doing things in order to surprise the reader!

 

[Eden5Zeroo]

BTW GUYS !!!!

While searching the whole internet for interviews and people who understand catalan (audio) theres the ki ball thing against kid buu

ddont speak japanese,but maybe some guys havent seen it here

Chapter 1:
しかしサタンの呼びかけで遂に全宇宙の元気を集めたスーパー元気玉が完成
However, by Mr. Satan's call, the Super Genkidama, which gathered the entire universe's energy (genki), was finally completed.
全宇宙の元気= entire universe's energy

Episode 1 00:01:47 --> 00:01:55
サタンの呼びかけで地球のみんなと全宇宙の元気を集めた超元気玉でついに悟空は魔人ブウを倒したのだ
At Mr. Satan's call, Goku finally defeated Majin Buu with a Super Genkidama that had gathered the energy (genki) of everyone on Earth and the entire universe.

It says 全宇宙の元気 which is very literally and straightforwardly "the entire universe's energy"

 

[RedReaper616]

Look, you ain't fighting me, ur fighting what was approved as the profile and unfortunately the scaling chain stops at Cell Saga, so that's what we have to base ourselves in for matchmaking purposes.

Spoiler: If u going to stay mad, don't even bother

that's our text


with the other key stopping at the Innocent Buu (and jumping to the Janemba movie) then speaking about this at post-fusion, which leaves us with the conclusion that:


But you say that he had the 1% debuff removed after getting out of Buu, so you state that:


But for that to be true, the key should be rewritten, somewhat like this:

TL;DR you need a CRT for what u say to be true in the profile. If discussing is getting u mad, don't think it's best for us to keep this, imma ask someone in their walls or smth

I’m not literally mad—Just annoyed because I’m having re-explain it because it’s hyper simple. Goku when inside Buu was less than 1/100th his true strength. That is objectively true. He then went to fight Gohan with that 1% power, in Base, and stomped him as a Super Saiyan. Once you leave Buu, you’re no longer nerfed.

Again, Goku didn’t get stronger. He was just no longer affected by Buu’s Stat Reduction Hax. So there’s no “stronger” thing to note on profile, because Goku’s power remained stagnant.

If it was the way you are arguing, Goku wouldn’t be 2-C at all.

Why? Because the reason he is 2-C is the Gohan fight. Which establishes his (1%) Base Strength.

He leaves Buu and is no longer weakened, thus he’s 50x over the Buuhan Feat. Then he goes SSJ3, and fights Kid Buu.

Everything you’ve tried to say in respect to that basic chain is literally off topic (Kid Buu Fight), stating incorrect information (“The Reinvigoration is what removes the Nerf”), or literally just repeating something that has been already made known to you is wrong (You looping back to Kid Buu after I literally said I’m not talking about him at all).

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

may i please ask you to read both side's inputs and give your opinion on the matter?

Going to need a CRT, since rn we accept the shrunken down Goku/Vegeta to be x2 as Super Buu but also 1/50th of his power too.

 

[Nonynho]

Everything you’ve tried to say in respect to that basic chain is literally off topic (Kid Buu Fight), stating incorrect information (“The Reinvigoration is what removes the Nerf”), or literally just repeating something that has been already made known to you is wrong (You looping back to Kid Buu after I literally said I’m not talking about him at all).

Well, i was just referring back to the profile, which as @Eden_Warlock99 just stated, needs a CRT for explaining what's true
So i'll just remake it adapting to the updated info

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

BTW GUYS !!!!

While searching the whole internet for interviews and people who understand catalan (audio) theres the ki ball thing against kid buu

ddont speak japanese,but maybe some guys havent seen it here

Chapter 1:
しかしサタンの呼びかけで遂に全宇宙の元気を集めたスーパー元気玉が完成
However, by Mr. Satan's call, the Super Genkidama, which gathered the entire universe's energy (genki), was finally completed.
全宇宙の元気= entire universe's energy

Episode 1 00:01:47 --> 00:01:55
サタンの呼びかけで地球のみんなと全宇宙の元気を集めた超元気玉でついに悟空は魔人ブウを倒したのだ
At Mr. Satan's call, Goku finally defeated Majin Buu with a Super Genkidama that had gathered the energy (genki) of everyone on Earth and the entire universe.

It says 全宇宙の元気 which is very literally and straightforwardly "the entire universe's energy"

There are guides that support this too, but the wiki does not accept it at all. The Majin Buu arc is 3-A via the destruction of all matter, there is plenty of evidence for this, no matter how much evidence you have to update it to 3-A, they do not want to accept it. What i hate most about this wiki is people getting hung up on the Majin Buu arc being 4-B

Buu Saga Definitive Review

Based on the canon evidence within the Dragon Ball series, there is substantial support for the claim that Majin Buu has the power to destroy the entire universe. First, Goku explicitly mentions that Kid Buu could obliterate the universe completely. This is a direct statement from one of the...

vsbattles.com

I also can't stand those crazy wiki theories here too, "but Majin Buu would take billions of years" and that comes out of nowhere, honestly, if people are going to comment, at least provide a scan to confirm the idea.

 

[Nonynho]

Aight, 3rd time's the charm.

Buuhan's 2-C feat > [2x gap > Ultimate Gohan ~ Inside Buu Goku < 100x gap]* < Outside of Buu Goku < 400x gap < GT Base Goku

*This quite weird wording is because UGohan has 50% of Buuhan's AP, which the Inside Buu Goku is scaling to since he fought a clone of UGohan. This means that Outside of Buu Goku is 50x the 2-C feat

Super Manga SSG 2-C feat ~ Base ToP Arc Goku < 50x gap < Blue ~ [Beerus ~ Belmod]** < 2x gap* < Power-Stressed Form ~ UISign/pUI ~ Jiren < stomp gap < Moro Arc UISign Goku < stomp gap < 7-3 Moro < stomp gap < pUI

Spoiler: reasonings

*-Unspecified "Kaioken" used, assuming 2x since this is the most basic Kaioken upgrade and only the anime states Goku using SSB Kaioken 10x and others

**-Vegito Blue is stated to be in Beerus level, or higher according to Shin, and as a complete SSB in the Black Saga, Goku could already hurt Fusion Zamasu like Vegito did, so since he got stronger by the time of ToP and since "Kaioken" Blue/UI are as strong as Jiren, who's stated by Toppo to be stronger than Belmod, an equal to Beerus, seems fitting to index stuff like this

Typically in or Versus Threads, we call 7x a one-shot gap, but 7x is an ugly number, so let's call each stomp gap a 5x diff, respectable and not far from the truth

Goku in his Base GT should be 1.6x stronger than Moro Arc pUI (20,000x 3 Universes vs 12,500x 3 universes) and should be around 1 tier above in LS (Though comparing base x base is Class P vs G, pUI should be giving multipliers to make this less huge of a difference), but pUI should have enough haxes to compensate for any diff, such as Deconstruction outside of Hakai, creating a f***ing megazord, auto-actions and development, or the fact that Goku has unsenseable god ki

It is quite impressive that any little thing you add for GT's side gets him to simply nuke Manga's out of existence. From what i understood, if i allow tUI vs SS1 or Rildo Fight's base, the gap's more than 6x for GT and Manga's just getting more haxes that GT possibly can deal with (Thank god Manga doesn't spam Hakai), including put f***ing SSB in the mix with UI, which if multiplied his powers, would finally allow me to put SS4 in the game.
Someone please tell me if tUI+SSB is around 50x stronger than tUI, cuz then we'd be able to 100% secure this ain't a mismatch, i think

Anything wrong with the chain? Still evaluating if this is a mismatch or not

 

[RedReaper616]

Anything wrong with the chain? Still evaluating if this is a mismatch or not

For GT’s side? Nah, not that I know of. You got it down.

Edit:

Goku has unsenseable god ki

GT Goku should bypass this, actually. We see that one of the methods Toei Goku’s Ki Sense functions on, outside of ordinary Ki Sensing like the Manga, is “grasping” Ki/creating a link between the two Ki’s, allowing passive tracking. Additionally, Toei Goku learned to sense the ambient Ki within the atmosphere, allowing him to keep track of non-living (Ki-less) objects, like Lightning. Meaning that despite God Ki being immune to conventional Ki Sensing, Toei Goku just has to sense around the hole in the Ki that exists within the atmosphere + keep their Ki’s connected and he will be able to maintain awareness of Superku. That said, he still wouldn’t have access to like, Instant Transmission to Superku, (just around him). or ability to read strength via Ki alone (he’d have to use other things like pressure, or his combat senses that allow him to read fighters, etc.) He’d just have constant physical awareness of Superku’s physical form and energy as it pervades the environment.

 

[Roun12]

snip

Most glaring thing is the gap from Base to Blue only being 50x. Shouldn't it be the same as the Anime?

 

[Nonynho]

Most glaring thing is the gap from Base to Blue only being 50x. Shouldn't it be the same as the Anime?

What is it?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Tournament of Power Goku being anywhere comparable to the likes of Vegito is definitely interesting.

 

[Roun12]

What is it?

8,000,000.
Base Goku < SSJ3 (400x) < Buu Saga Base Vegito < SSJ3 Vegito (400x) < God < Blue (50x)

 

[RedReaper616]

8,000,000.
Base Goku < SSJ3 (400x) < Buu Saga Base Vegito < SSJ3 Vegito (400x) < God < Blue (50x)

Absorbing God Ki to become as strong as SSG in Base isn’t accepted for Manga. So Goku (until the Manga’s Black Arc) is not at 2-C in any form below SSG. Meaning he’s only 50x over the 2-C Feat when he first gains SSB.

 

[Roun12]

Absorbing God Ki to become as strong as SSG in Base isn’t accepted for Manga. So Goku (until the Manga’s Black Arc) is not at 2-C in any form below SSG. Meaning he’s only 50x over the 2-C Feat when he first gains SSB.

They start scaling to the God forms by the end of the Goku Black saga in the manga since normal Super Saiyan Goku Black fights evenly with Blue Vegeta early on and by the end even God Vegeta can fight with Rose Black. Noniho's scaling ToP Goku so it should apply.

 

[RedReaper616]

They start scaling to the God forms by the end of the Goku Black saga in the manga since normal Super Saiyan Goku Black fights evenly with Blue Vegeta early on and by the end even God Vegeta can fight with Rose Black.

Yes, I said that.

Noniho's scaling ToP Goku so it should apply.

Ahhh. Yeah, you’re right, (I think), I misread the Goku in conversation.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Absorbing God Ki to become as strong as SSG in Base isn’t accepted for Manga.

How exactly is the God's Crimson Radiance concept accepted by the Wiki? Because, first and foremost, the film version of Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods is canon. Even if, in the continuity of Super, the events of the film are replaced by the events of the first four chapters, both Chōzenshū 4 and Viz itself (via the English release of the manga) confirm the film version of Battle of Gods is canon; and in fact, even the "Saiyan Special Q&A" published inside of Saikyō Jump, which is based on and written for both the original series and the Super manga, includes interview answers by Toriyama expanding upon the lore first established by the film version of Battle of Gods—including the character of Yamoshi, who never appears, whether physically or retroactively, and is never referenced by any of the characters on-screen during the Super manga.

The only way Goku could be capable of becoming a Super Saiyan Blue during the events of the film version of Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection 'F'—which is explicitly within the continuity of the Super manga—and later becoming a normal Super Saiyan God during the battle with Hit, despite Super Saiyan God being a temporary existence, is by—like in the film version of Battle of Gods—physically adapting to the Super Saiyan God form throughout his battle with Beerus and then ultimately "absorbing" the realm of the gods into himself and fusing its power into his own potential, which simultaneously increased his Battle Power in his normal form—to a level which both the film version of Battle of Gods and the Super anime establish is comparable to, if not entirely equal to that of his previous Super Saiyan God power—and allowed him permanent access to the form to transform into later, like any other Super Saiyan form.

 

[RedReaper616]

How exactly is the God's Crimson Radiance concept accepted by the Wiki?

Accepted for Movie
Accepted for Anime
Denied for Manga

Manga gets to 2-C Base anyway because of the Black Arc, though, making it a distinction without meaning.

And yeah, the point with Toriyama was brought up in the thread Damage used to downgrade the Crimson Radiance away from the Manga. Same for the Res F stuff for the Manga, with it being reasoned that the statement that indicates such insufficient to that end.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

How in God's name is "For the story immediately following the "God of Destruction Beerus Arc," read the anime comic Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection "F"!" an insufficient statement? A statement found in a review of the "chronological order of the story"?

 

[RedReaper616]

How in God's name is "For the story immediately following the "God of Destruction Beerus Arc," read the anime comic Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection "F"!" an insufficient statement? A statement found in a review of the "chronological order of the story"?

I think the logic was because they found it to be closer to an ad to sell you stuff rather than an accurate recap?

I think?

It’s been at least like, a year, so my memory might be hazy—But you yourself were literally the one to bring it up and it didn’t change anything. (If I remember correctly).

I was the one to repeatedly bring up the Black Arc stuff.

Veronica was derailing constantly.

Anyway, point being—The SBG/Crimson Radiance isn’t accepted for the Manga, but is for everything else.

 

[Nonynho]

Tournament of Power Goku being anywhere comparable to the likes of Vegito is definitely interesting.

Welp, the line of thought is there, anything disproving it in ur opinion?

Noniho's scaling ToP Goku so it should apply.

Illuminate me: Why are you using SS3 Vegito for anything here? Have we ever seen him like...existing, in this timeline?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Welp, the line of thought is there, anything disproving it in ur opinion?

1. "Vegito can damage Zamasu, and Goku can damage Zamasu; therefore, Goku and Vegito are equal" is not how any form of powerscaling works.
2. Blue Kaio-ken is as strong as Jiren??????

 

[Nonynho]

1. "Vegito can damage Zamasu, and Goku can damage Zamasu; therefore, Goku and Vegito are equal" is not how any form of powerscaling works.
2. Blue Kaio-ken is as strong as Jiren??????

I can only base myself in the profile, and the wording seems to say such

[...](As a Completed Super Saiyan Blue, he could use all 100% of his power and contend with Fusion Zamasu who previously need Vegito to deal with)[...]

Phrase above is about SSB in Black Arc, comparing him to Vegito somehow
Then by the time of ToP he got stronger, contending with Toppo, a candidate to becoming a God of Destruction

Low Multiverse level, far higher with God Forms (Stronger than before, comparable to Toppo who is one of strongest fighter of Universe 11, only lost because of letting his guard down)[...]

Then he gets SSB "Kaioken", that surprised Jiren (so should be somewhat comparable), and UISign/pUI are as strong as Jiren

[...]with Ultra Instinct Omen and Perfected Ultra Instinct (Capable of contending with Jiren[...] Dominated Jiren before he power-up to his full power. According to Goku, he would have been eventually able to defeat Jiren had the form been able to last longer)

So i put them all at similar levels
And that gets above Belmod/Beerus, because that's where Jiren's at, according to the profile.

Returning to the Vegito thingy, i'm definetely not saying that ToP Goku > Vegito, or even ToP Goku = Vegito. The fact that Black Arc SSB Goku could damage FZamasu is just a supporting argument for "Kaioken" SSB/UISign/pUI ~ Jiren > Belmod/Beerus

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Didn't base Vegito nuke half of Zamasu's body with one ki blast lol

 

[Eden5Zeroo]

There are guides that support this too, but the wiki does not accept it at all. The Majin Buu arc is 3-A via the destruction of all matter, there is plenty of evidence for this, no matter how much evidence you have to update it to 3-A, they do not want to accept it. What i hate most about this wiki is people getting hung up on the Majin Buu arc being 4-B

Buu Saga Definitive Review

Based on the canon evidence within the Dragon Ball series, there is substantial support for the claim that Majin Buu has the power to destroy the entire universe. First, Goku explicitly mentions that Kid Buu could obliterate the universe completely. This is a direct statement from one of the...

vsbattles.com

I also can't stand those crazy wiki theories here too, "but Majin Buu would take billions of years" and that comes out of nowhere, honestly, if people are going to comment, at least provide a scan to confirm the idea.

Tbh, you are universal if you destroy a universe or if theres a Beerus/Goku situation or like the scans me posted where the author gave the exact amount of joules.

I dont really care how much "imba" you are by the end of the series . You can be as universal as you want, but without a timeframe ... you stand zero chance against legit universe busters.

A multi solarsystem/ galaxy buster is just as much of a universe buster as goku, but the difference is Goku can dish out the entire power in an instant, whereas the multi galaxy guy needs a specific time^^

Buu is a gray area for me. He hasnt destroyed the universe, but there are so many statements .... like legit a lot of statements XD

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I can only base myself in the profile, and the wording seems to say such

Or, you could think for yourself? You could not make a misinformed appeal to authority?

-snip-

nvm it's a troll

 

[Nonynho]

Or, you could think for yourself? You could not make a misinformed appeal to authority?

Well, if i think for myself and that deviates from what the profile's stating, then i can't use it properly in the match, because what's there is what i have to use, not an "appeal to authority" (why would it constitute such if i'm abiding by a profile i have nothing to do with? i'm just reading and trying to collectively interpret what's there)

nvm it's a troll

**** off with that.
If what's wrong is in my logic, point out with forum-approved things
If what's wrong is in the profile, point out so we adapt to it or wait for a CRT if the mistake is big

Don't come of with this strange ass attitude of calling me a troll cuz i disagree with what you're saying instead of just taking at face-value. If it doesn't interest you to actually engage in a conversation to elucidate if the theory i presented by reading the profiles is correct, don't reply, just go talk about something else

 

[Roun12]

Illuminate me: Why are you using SS3 Vegito for anything here? Have we ever seen him like...existing, in this timeline?

If even Gotenks can use Super Saiyan 3 then there's no reason Vegito can't and Goku should be aware of this, but Super Saiyan God was still a level of power that Goku didn't even realize existed.

 

[Nonynho]

If even Gotenks can use Super Saiyan 3 then there's no reason Vegito can't and Goku should be aware of this, but Super Saiyan God was still a level of power that Goku didn't even realize existed.

Yeah, but this generates multipliers that we don't know
Like, by how much is Vegito > SSJ3 (i imagine you're talking about P-diffusion) Goku? And by how much is SSG > SSJ3 Vegito?

8,000,000.
Base Goku < SSJ3 (400x) < Buu Saga Base Vegito < SSJ3 Vegito (400x) < God < Blue (50x)

To make things better and easier: hand me an approved source stating something close enough to a multiplier of SSG? Or are you trying to say that SSG ~ Therorical SS3 Vegito > 400x > SS3 Goku, therefore he's 160,000 Base?
Either way, a scan would be very nice

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Was at a relative's place in another town and saw this on a stroll....
Goku vapping

 

[Nonynho]

Was at a relative's place in another town and saw this on a stroll....
Goku vapping

It's like he's obliging you to vape lmfao

 

[RedReaper616]

Was at a relative's place in another town and saw this on a stroll....
Goku vapping

I’m imagining the Moro moment but instead of saying trained it’s “Vape.”

“Have you ever Vaped before?”