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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Didn't Future Trunks return to his original timeline and rewrite the past? He did. Whis traveled with him and Mai and helped them defeat Zamasu before he began his Zero Mortal Plan, creating a new parallel world branching off of the past of the presumably destroyed future.
 
Shar122 said:
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Topic: Upgrading Super Shenron and the Grand Priest to Low 1-C

This topic will be very straightforward, as I will discuss the Grand Priest and Super Shenron with the aim of upgrading them to Low 1-C. Super Shenron is capable of anything, as stated by Zeno and the Grand Priest themselves. Therefore, he is capable of erasing and affecting the...
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I'm seriously thinking about reporting this guy for spam or something like that. I can't take this nonsense anymore, and it's hurting us.
 
And it all happens again, albeit with scans.

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Topic: Upgrading the Grand Priest and Super Shenron to Low 1-C.

The previous topic was closed because I did not provide evidence, so I have come now with the evidence in this topic, and I apologize for not including it earlier. Super Shenron It is stated that Super Shenron is capable of anything, as confirmed by Zeno himself. Furthermore, Super Shenron was...
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Who told you that? Personally, I do not agree at all with classifications such as Arale 1-A+ or even 1-A. There is only one thing you need to understand: when I open a topic, I am 100% certain that I am correct. As for the most recent topic I opened here, it is completely clear and will be accepted.

I honestly do not understand why some Dragon Ball fans here believe that a character like Zamasu can genuinely defeat the Grand Priest. That idea is frankly ridiculous. If Whis had been present, he would have defeated Zamasu easily, just as Zeno did, by reversing time across the hyper-timeline and erasing him from existence entirely. The mistake Trunks made was destroying Zamasu’s body without destroying his soul as well, which is what caused him to take that form. Otherwise, Whis or any Angel would be able to defeat Zamasu in that state.

The Grand Priest is capable of erasing everyone in a single second, with the sole exception of Zeno, and it has been explicitly stated that he is the strongest in the entire world. Whis himself has stated that he cannot even touch the Grand Priest. Based on this, the Grand Priest can manipulate and reverse time across the hyper-timeline far more effectively than Whis, by an overwhelming margin of power, meaning he is not restricted by the same limitations as Whis. Therefore, Zamasu does not have even the slightest chance against him. Especially considering that the Grand Priest can erase any entity by will alone, as he did with Merus, without even needing to reverse time in the first place.

The staff member is ignoring the fact that Super Shenron is capable of doing anything, with only one exception: Zeno. He has a single weakness, which is Zeno, and nothing else. The Grand Priest, Zeno, Whis, and others have all clearly stated that Super Shenron can grant anything. The fact that this does not include Zeno does not change the reality that he is capable of doing anything else. There are many characters in anime who are capable of everything while still having one weakness or exception, and this does not change their overall capabilities in any way.

I proposed classifying Super Shenron as Low 1-C through wish-granting, and more than three or four people agreed with me on this proposal. For that reason, I am now waiting for his response.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
Who told you that? Personally, I do not agree at all with classifications such as Arale 1-A+ or even 1-A. There is only one thing you need to understand: when I open a topic, I am 100% certain that I am correct. As for the most recent topic I opened here, it is completely clear and will be accepted.

I honestly do not understand why some Dragon Ball fans here believe that a character like Zamasu can genuinely defeat the Grand Priest. That idea is frankly ridiculous. If Whis had been present, he would have defeated Zamasu easily, just as Zeno did, by reversing time across the hyper-timeline and erasing him from existence entirely. The mistake Trunks made was destroying Zamasu’s body without destroying his soul as well, which is what caused him to take that form. Otherwise, Whis or any Angel would be able to defeat Zamasu in that state.

The Grand Priest is capable of erasing everyone in a single second, with the sole exception of Zeno, and it has been explicitly stated that he is the strongest in the entire world. Whis himself has stated that he cannot even touch the Grand Priest. Based on this, the Grand Priest can manipulate and reverse time across the hyper-timeline far more effectively than Whis, by an overwhelming margin of power, meaning he is not restricted by the same limitations as Whis. Therefore, Zamasu does not have even the slightest chance against him. Especially considering that the Grand Priest can erase any entity by will alone, as he did with Merus, without even needing to reverse time in the first place.

The staff member is ignoring the fact that Super Shenron is capable of doing anything, with only one exception: Zeno. He has a single weakness, which is Zeno, and nothing else. The Grand Priest, Zeno, Whis, and others have all clearly stated that Super Shenron can grant anything. The fact that this does not include Zeno does not change the reality that he is capable of doing anything else. There are many characters in anime who are capable of everything while still having one weakness or exception, and this does not change their overall capabilities in any way.

I proposed classifying Super Shenron as Low 1-C through wish-granting, and more than three or four people agreed with me on this proposal. For that reason, I am now waiting for his response.
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I don't think making Daishinkan above Infinite Zamasu is a good idea, although i agree that Daishinkan is one of the five most powerful in the verse, but angels remain neutral to any events in the multiverse (as long as no angel is involved), and besides, it took Zeno to erase Infinite Zamasu, so if, as you mentioned, Daishinkan is superior to Zeno (via manga), why was Daishinkan erased along with the entire timeline? If he were really stronger than Zeno, he would have simply gone to the present timeline to accompany Zeno from the future, but since that did not happen, i do not agree that Zeno scales above

Regarding reversing the timeline, it is scaled to hax, and we have not decided to update the angels to low 1-C in tier, so in any case, Daishinkan today is not winning low 1-C.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
I don't think making Daishinkan above Infinite Zamasu is a good idea, although i agree that Daishinkan is one of the five most powerful in the verse, but angels remain neutral to any events in the multiverse (as long as no angel is involved), and besides, it took Zeno to erase Infinite Zamasu, so if, as you mentioned, Daishinkan is superior to Zeno (via manga), why was Daishinkan erased along with the entire timeline? If he were really stronger than Zeno, he would have simply gone to the present timeline to accompany Zeno from the future, but since that did not happen, i do not agree that Zeno scales above

Regarding reversing the timeline, it is scaled to hax, and we have not decided to update the angels to low 1-C in tier, so in any case, Daishinkan today is not winning low 1-C.
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The Grand Priest is the strongest being in the entire world. He surpasses all Angels without exception; he is not merely among the top five or even the strongest group of them—he is the strongest outright. Whis himself, who is considered one of the most powerful Angels, explicitly stated that he cannot even touch the Grand Priest. This alone demonstrates the massive gap in power between them.

The Grand Priest is fully capable of erasing any being with absolute ease, as shown in the case of Merus, where he did not simply erase him but altered his very existential nature. It has been clearly stated that the Grand Priest is the strongest in the world, and therefore debating his superiority after such a direct statement is unjustified. Even if one argues that this description does not include Zeno, the Grand Priest would still logically be the second strongest entity after Zeno, which remains indisputable.

It is well established that Angels possess the ability to rewind or advance time via the hyper-timeline itself. Since the Grand Priest surpasses all Angels by an overwhelming margin, it logically follows that he can perform such actions far more effectively and without the limitations imposed on Angels like Whis.

Even if we hypothetically assume that Infinite Zamasu were to confront the Grand Priest, he would have no chance whatsoever. Infinite Zamasu does not pose a genuine threat even to characters on the level of Goku or Vegeta, let alone the Grand Priest. The latter could simply rewind time through the hyper-timeline itself to defeat Infinite Zamasu, or erase him directly by sheer will, exactly as he did with Merus, without requiring any additional measures.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Ya-Ya-Ya-Ya-Yap-A-Holics Mixtape 🗣️🗣️🗣️
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Laugh as much as you want. I mean, what else can I expect from you or him? Everyone just thinks they are the correct and logical ones. It's unfortunate that Dragon Ball has fans like you, but apparently everyone is wrong except you and him. Only you are the logical ones, and everyone else knows nothing, understands nothing—only you are right. And feel free to speak however you want, because, well, you think you know.

There is something called discussion and judgment, and it's not you who decides, nor is it the classifications that decide. Classifications remain classifications based on majority consensus, and undoubtedly, even within this forum, you will find opponents to this. If you speak with such confidence, debate your opponent face to face in front of a judgment.
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
Genuine question here—are you being sincere? Are you GPTing me, or do you consciously squeeze eight sentences (wow, lookit you!) out of a list of synonyms to write a monologue with? Am I allowed to call somebody verbose and pretentious, or is that a rule violation?
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I've said the word pretentious a few times here, you'll be fine with that word
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
Genuine question here—are you being sincere? Are you GPTing me, or do you consciously squeeze eight sentences (wow, lookit you!) out of a list of synonyms to write a monologue with? Am I allowed to call somebody verbose and pretentious, or is that a rule violation?
Click to expand...
No, I am not mocking you. Is asking you to discuss something considered mockery in your view? If you have an objection, then you should defend your argument in a debate against your opponent. I don't know what mockery has to do with this.
 
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DBZ Kai/Toei: Goku's Astral Projection

Hello, since the thread about the Kienzan's Durability Negation is still unfinished and starting to interfere with my future plans, along with a few other threads I've made for some reason, I've decided to propose a minor ability addition for Goku, specifically for DBZ Kai/Toei, based on a scene...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Being 100% certain you are correct and don't change that mind is not a virtue, but a problem tbh. If you want a CRT of yours to be accepted you first should change that mentality of "I'm always right and yall are wrong". Or "I've answered all your claims meaning you got debunked"
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When did I ever say that my words are always correct? And when did I say that replying automatically means refuting the other side?
What I said was clearly directed at you. I simply stated that a reply does not necessarily equal a refutation. I never claimed that I am always right; rather, I said that I know when I am right, and I am fully willing to accept others’ opinions and arguments if they are correct and logical. Otherwise, it is only natural that I would not agree with them.

And who said that you are right and I am wrong? Who said that the majority automatically represents the truth?
If we were to follow the majority alone, then most Dragon Ball fans would actually agree with me—and the same logic applies to any other series as well.

In short If your argument is logical and well-founded, I am ready to accept it. If not, I will not accept it—not because I am unwilling to be convinced, but simply because it is incorrect.
 
Azertyhuuh said:
I never claimed that I am always right; rather, I said that I know when I am right, and I am fully willing to accept others’ opinions and arguments if they are correct and logical. Otherwise, it is only natural that I would not agree with them.
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The problem is, every time someone refutes you, like in the Low 1-C CRT people kept telling you that "being boundless in all direction" and calc-stacking with a made up timeframe isn't enough for universal size (and so, not enough for Low 1-C), you kept using and repeating the same arguments and that "your proof is solid and everyone else got debunked and would need proof that you are wrong". This is just one example I remember, pretty sure I could find more in your threads but I won't spend more time on that
Azertyhuuh said:
And who said that you are right and I am wrong? Who said that the majority automatically represents the truth?
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Not me. That's for sure
Azertyhuuh said:
If we were to follow the majority alone, then most Dragon Ball fans would actually agree with me—and the same logic applies to any other series as well.
Click to expand...
Idk why you are bringing the majority here when I didn't mention it.

Yeah, the majority of Dragon Ball fans outside of this wiki that follow powerscaling subs think Dragon Ball is 1-A or above. But you know what? Said majority also doesn't know how 1-A and above works on this wiki.
Azertyhuuh said:
In short If your argument is logical and well-founded, I am ready to accept it. If not, I will not accept it—not because I am unwilling to be convinced, but simply because it is incorrect.
Click to expand...
And that is your problem. For you, even if an statement is an axiom to how this wiki works, i.e.: "Being boundless in every dimension" is not enough proof for universal size. "Transcending dimensions" is not enough for Low 1-A, or trivial things like "this guidebook isn't canon and even if it were it'd contradict your point", you still keep, not only using the same arguments, but deciding for some reason that you have given an answer to all counter arguments and that they are invalid.

I'm not gonna debate you over this trivial matter because I already know by experience debates with you are endless unless a moderator interferes. So, feel free to keep making the same CRTs you are making up to this point, just letting you know this way they won't be accepted unless they are so straightforward that it's strange how no one else noticed it before.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
The problem is, every time someone refutes you, like in the Low 1-C CRT people kept telling you that "being boundless in all direction" and calc-stacking with a made up timeframe isn't enough for universal size (and so, not enough for Low 1-C), you kept using and repeating the same arguments and that "your proof is solid and everyone else got debunked and would need proof that you are wrong". This is just one example I remember, pretty sure I could find more in your threads but I won't spend more time on that

Not me. That's for sure

Idk why you are bringing the majority here when I didn't mention it.

Yeah, the majority of Dragon Ball fans outside of this wiki that follow powerscaling subs think Dragon Ball is 1-A or above. But you know what? Said majority also doesn't know how 1-A and above works on this wiki.

And that is your problem. For you, even if an statement is an axiom to how this wiki works, i.e.: "Being boundless in every dimension" is not enough proof for universal size. "Transcending dimensions" is not enough for Low 1-A, or trivial things like "this guidebook isn't canon and even if it were it'd contradict your point", you still keep, not only using the same arguments, but deciding for some reason that you have given an answer to all counter arguments and that they are invalid.

I'm not gonna debate you over this trivial matter because I already know by experience debates with you are endless unless a moderator interferes. So, feel free to keep making the same CRTs you are making up to this point, just letting you know this way they won't be accepted unless they are so straightforward that it's strange how no one else noticed it before.
Click to expand...
What you said about my position regarding the size of the dimension is incorrect.
It is true that I stated that this dimension has no clearly defined boundaries in any direction, and based on that, I said that it could possibly be considered at least universal in size. After the many objections, I clarified only two points:

First point:
I said that we do not observe any clear boundaries for this dimension, and considering the speeds shown, it can be regarded as at least universal in size, which would place Gogeta and the others at Low 1-C.

Second point:
I stated that if this evidence is not considered sufficient, then I am requesting that Gogeta and the others be rated at 2-A, due to transcending space-time and destroying this five-dimensional structure, regardless of its size.
This is because even the smallest five-dimensional structure contains an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional and three-dimensional spaces, meaning that destroying such a dimension alone—independent of its size—would constitute a 2-A level feat at minimum.

That is everything I said.
I did not impose my personal opinion on anyone; I merely presented two proposals. I never claimed that the dimension must be considered infinite or universal in size against their will. I personally acknowledge that the evidence regarding its size is limited, which is why I did not object but instead offered two alternatives.

I am personally aware that some Dragon Ball fans are extremely biased and do not understand the tier system. They believe Goku is the strongest character in all of anime, with some even placing him at Tier 0, which is frankly absurd.
Unfortunately, only a small number of Dragon Ball fans actually understand the tier system, have followed other works, and engage respectfully.

Finally, I never said that transcending dimensions automatically places a character at Low 1-A.
What I said is that the Other World lacks the very concepts upon which dimensions themselves are constructed, and it is described as a higher realm. This does not make it null or zero; rather, since it is a higher realm and also lacks the concepts that define dimensions, it would be transcendent over all dimensions, whether infinite or possible.
That is exactly what I said—nothing more, nothing less.
 
Tbf, the argument about Gogeta and Broly being MFTL+ yet didn't reach an edge of the dimension why flying to argue about the size of the space isn't a bad one. Though the problem is they just circling and punch each other rather than flying through a great distance
 
It wouldn't be if the plot was "they tried to escape/leave the dimension by flying trying to reach its end but couldn't regardless how much time passed". I agree with that.

But the argument was "This characters are whateverbignumber*c, meaning they can cover whateverbignumber2 universes in a second. And since in film time there were more than 2 seconds of them flying in a straight line the dimension shall be universal in size".

Though, now that you mention it, didn't Whis state that it'd take him 2 days to reach Zen'oh's place from U7? Couldn't this be used to give the space between universes significant size, given Whis can travel from Earth to Beerus' place instantly if he is in a hurry (like he did in the Arale episode)?
 
Vietthai96 said:
Tbf, the argument about Gogeta and Broly being MFTL+ yet didn't reach an edge of the dimension why flying to argue about the size of the space isn't a bad one. Though the problem is they just circling and punch each other rather than flying through a great distance
Click to expand...
The issue is not here; I presented two clear proposals from the very beginning.

First proposal:
I stated that this dimension has no clearly defined boundaries in any direction, and when examining the structure of the dimension itself, it appears to lack any reachable or identifiable limits. Taking into account the speed evidence and the overall context of the scene, I suggested that it could at least be considered universal in size, and based on that, the characters involved should be classified as Low 1-C.

Second proposal:
I stated that if the staff did not agree and considered this evidence insufficient to prove the size of the dimension, then the characters could instead be classified as 2-A, at a very high end of the tier, due to destroying a five-dimensional structure regardless of its size.
This is because even the smallest five-dimensional structure contains an uncountably infinite number of four-dimensional and three-dimensional spaces, and so on. Therefore, a 2-A classification would be entirely appropriate in this case if the size argument were rejected.

However, the thread was closed without addressing this argument, my points were completely ignored, and the topic was locked despite the presence of members who agreed with a minimum 2-A classification regardless of the dimension’s size.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
It wouldn't be if the plot was "they tried to escape/leave the dimension by flying trying to reach its end but couldn't regardless how much time passed". I agree with that.

But the argument was "This characters are whateverbignumber*c, meaning they can cover whateverbignumber2 universes in a second. And since in film time there were more than 2 seconds of them flying in a straight line the dimension shall be universal in size".

Though, now that you mention it, didn't Whis state that it'd take him 2 days to reach Zen'oh's place from U7? Couldn't this be used to give the space between universes significant size, given Whis can travel from Earth to Beerus' place instantly if he is in a hurry (like he did in the Arale episode)?
Click to expand...
Since the Dragon Ball universe is infinite in size, measuring the distance between Earth and Beerus’ planet becomes impossible using conventional means. Consequently, it is also not possible to directly infer the distance between the universe and Zeno’s realm.
We know that Whis takes approximately thirty minutes to travel from Beerus’ planet to Earth. However, given that the universe is infinite in size, we cannot estimate that distance unless Whis’ speed itself is known with precision.

If Whis’ speed were known, it would then be possible to calculate the distance between Earth and Beerus’ planet, and by extension, infer the distance between the universe and Zeno’s realm.
As far as I am aware, we do possess estimates or information regarding Whis’ speed.
 
JustANormalPerson01 said:
Universe is not accepted to be infinite in DBS (neither manga nor anime), just for Toei and games.
Click to expand...
No, rather, the Dragon Ball universe is infinite, and this has already been accepted on this forum.

You can review this thread:
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『INFINITE UNIVERSE IN DRAGON BALL SUPER』

I'll be simple and direct here: The Dragon Ball Universe is cited several times as having an Infinite Universe both in extension and in "base" size the only contradictions in this exist (as far as i can remember) ONLY in the anime, where Super Shenlong is invoked and we catch a glimpse of the...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Therefore, the universe in Dragon Ball itself, not in the games, is indeed infinite.

There is a substantial amount of evidence supporting this, and it has already been approved.
 
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