Archie Shadow + Enerjak Addition

[y3p_owo]

So I was looking through Archie Sonic to see where Shadow was briefly overpowering Enerjak, that's when I saw THIS:

Shadow states that without his Inhibitor Rings, he's capable of fully tapping into the Chaos Force. This should be added to both his Pre-Gen and Light Mobius pages for their justification for Low 1-C, as well as Enerjak's page, seeing as he's capable of beating Shadow in this state.

 

[Remus1998]

Shadow states that without his Inhibitor Rings, he's capable of fully tapping into the Chaos Force.

Exactly where?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Exactly where?

Second to last thing he says on the page

 

[y3p_owo]

^

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Seems alright.

 

[Withersoul_235]

Yeah, seems fine by me.

 

[Eseseso]

Seems fine. Would this also increase the level of Chaos Energy that Shadow and Light Mobius Shadow have (and thus give them the P&A on that level)?

 

[y3p_owo]

I was actually thinking about that sometime after posting this, and I think it should be possible for those to be added.

Though then the question would be which level they would be on in that state.

 

[Eseseso]

I was actually thinking about that sometime after posting this, and I think it should be possible for those to be added.

Though then the question would be which level they would be on in that state.

At least Mid-level for Shadow and King Shadow, but IMO it's likely High-Level since they're fully tapping into the Chaos Force itself, plus Chaos Shadow was equal to Enerjak, who is at this level, before he ran out of juice.

 

[ElixirBlue]

It’s consistent with Knuckles (Post-Chaos Knuckles) stating the same thing about Shadow directly tapping into the Chaos Force.

Issue #159

Since this is the only time Shadow takes off his rings, this is the only scaling he has. But I don’t agree the scaling extends to his physicals, passed his AP. His durability get one-shotted, no competition.

Issue #182

 

[Eseseso]

It’s consistent with Knuckles (Post-Chaos Knuckles) stating the same thing about Shadow directly tapping into the Chaos Force.

Issue #159

Then his Base should probably get mid-level Chaos Energy powers/resistances and his Chaos Shadow form would be High level.

Since this is the only time Shadow takes off his rings, this is the only scaling he has. But I don’t agree the scaling extends to his physicals, passed his AP. His durability get one-shotted, no competition.

Issue #182

IIRC they also fought off-screen, and Chaos Shadow did initially push Enerjak back.

As for King Shadow, his Chaos Shadow Form's power scales to making someone comparable in power to Perfect Chaos, who is >= Super Sonic.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Honestly, this scaling mostly helps upscale arguments for the Chaos Emeralds and the Super Forms, as Enerjak casually dealt with Shadow fully tapping into the Chaos Force.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Then his Base should probably get mid-level Chaos Energy powers/resistances and his Chaos Shadow form would be High level.

Probably not. He showed no resistance. Most resistances the Super Forms have is linked to their invulnerability (lore-wise), something Enerjak doesn’t have. Shadow got folded by the Thunder arrows. Tho, I can see Shadow having Mogul’s Regen.

IIRC they also fought off-screen, and Chaos Shadow did initially push Enerjak back.

Pushed back by energy is different from getting pushed back by a punch, like how Dragon Ball has different energy level outputs separate from their own physicals.

As for King Shadow, his Chaos Shadow Form's power scales to making someone comparable in power to Perfect Chaos, who is >= Super Sonic.

Pls don’t take “Perfect Chaos the outlier” seriously. None of the writers write Perfect Chaos’ fights as greater than Super Sonic.

The Perfect Chaos you’re referring to was taken out by Sonic’s base kids.

 

[Eseseso]

Probably not. He showed no resistance. Most resistances the Super Forms have is linked to their invulnerability (lore-wise), something Enerjak doesn’t have. Shadow got folded by the Thunder arrows. Tho, I can see Shadow having Mogul’s Regen.

I mean, it says that mid-level powers are for those with the capabilities of a single Chaos Emerald or equivalent, and the panel above implies Base Shadow to have the chaos power comparable to a single Emerald.

Pushed back by energy is different from getting pushed back by a punch, like how Dragon Ball has different energy level outputs separate from their own physicals.


Pls don’t take “Perfect Chaos the outlier” seriously. None of the writers write Perfect Chaos’ fights as greater than Super Sonic.

The Perfect Chaos you’re referring to was taken out by Sonic’s base kids.

I just looked at Perfect Chaos's profile, which says that he tossed around Super Sonic with ease.

But I guess tapping into the 5-D Chaos Force would already be a Low 1-C feat for Chaos Shadow.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I mean, it says that mid-level powers are for those with the capabilities of a single Chaos Emerald or equivalent, and the panel above implies Base Shadow to have the chaos power comparable to a single Emerald.

That isn’t how it works. Base Shadow is tapping into the Chaos Force, just like the wizards and the Brotherhood, something external. They don’t get those resistances for simply tapping into the energy.

The mid-level resistance are those that have internal Chaos Energy, like Knuckles, Mogul and Super forms. Knuckles was born as a living Chaos Emerald while Mogul spiritually bonded with a Chaos Emerald. Shadow doesn’t have lore with a Chaos Emerald in that way.

I just looked at Perfect Chaos's profile, which says that he tossed around Super Sonic with ease.

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh, but there is also a note about Chaos’ having issues in the scaling.

“Note: Do not scale Perfect Chaos to the Super Emeralds but rather Super Sonic as the main concerning issue of scaling Chaos to them is his battle with Super Sonic. Sonic had only transformed into Super Sonic in their battle but previously, 1 Super Emerald would transform Sonic beyond Super to Ultra Sonic. Perfect Chaos used the 7 Super Emeralds, only to be battled by Super Sonic. Scaling Super to Ultra doesn't work, as Ultra gave Sonic more power than his Super form.[1] The battle would be an Outlier. A possible explanation would be the writers had only intended to recreate Sonic Adventure and may have needed a way to get rid of the Super Emeralds after Sega showed they weren't going to use the Super Emeralds moving forward for the Games, but this is a working theory on the event.”

Probably should be a note about Tikalchaos’ and their kid scaling as well.

But I guess tapping into the 5-D Chaos Force would already be a Low 1-C feat for Chaos Shadow.

Oh yeah, it’s just about addressing what stats Shadow doing that would give him.

 

[y3p_owo]

As for King Shadow, his Chaos Shadow Form's power scales to making someone comparable in power to Perfect Chaos, who is >= Super Sonic.

The someone who's comparable in power to Perfect Chaos you're talking about was stated to not be Super Form level in-universe:

Though seeing as they say she's close to perfect level, we could possibly use it as a supporting feat for either Low 1-C or for a "higher without Inhibitor Rings".

Since this is the only time Shadow takes off his rings, this is the only scaling he has. But I don’t agree the scaling extends to his physicals, passed his AP. His durability get one-shotted, no competition.

Issue #182

Yeah I'm not gonna lie, I kinda have an issue with the site (down)scaling Chaos Shadow to Enerjak.

 

[Eseseso]

The someone who's comparable in power to Perfect Chaos you're talking about was stated to not be Super Form level in-universe:

Though seeing as they say she's close to perfect level, we could possibly use it as a supporting feat for either Low 1-C or for a "higher without Inhibitor Rings".

Yeah I'm not gonna lie, I kinda have an issue with the site (down)scaling Chaos Shadow to Enerjak.

I was just looking at the profile.

Also, since Chaos Shadow will now be Low 1-C only due to Chaos Force stuff, will he keep his immeasurable speed since he at least seemed to be capable of keeping up with Enerjak's speed?

 

[y3p_owo]

I'm unsure, but I'm sorta leaning towards no.

 

[ElixirBlue]

The Speed scaling between Super Forms and the Base cast largely doesn’t make sense and wouldn’t be accepted at the current time.

OP seems largely uncontroversial, as it’s just adding in justifications. Tho, ontop of a slightly depowered Master Mogul fatally wounding the Ancient Walkers, this does help scale the Pre-Great Harmony Super Forms higher than the Chaos Force, since Enerjak was handling Shadow without difficulty.

I believe this can be added.

 

[Remus1998]

S

The Speed scaling between Super Forms and the Base cast largely doesn’t make sense and wouldn’t be accepted at the current time.

OP seems largely uncontroversial, as it’s just adding in justifications. Tho, ontop of a slightly depowered Master Mogul fatally wounding the Ancient Walkers, this does help scale the Pre-Great Harmony Super Forms higher than the Chaos Force, since Enerjak was handling Shadow without difficulty.

I believe this can be added.

So what would the scaling chain look like?

 

[y3p_owo]

I believe this can be added.

So would I need one more staff member or is this good enough?

So what would the scaling chain look like?

It's still pretty much the same but now Super form tier and higher characters upscale from Chaos Shadow.

 

[ElixirBlue]

So would I need one more staff member or is this good enough?

It’s not a tier change or ability addition, just added justification, so it should be ok.

The only thing that would be changed for ‘Chaos Shadow’ would be a stat downgrade aside from his AP, as he isn’t a super form, just channeling the Chaos Force for a Chaos Blast. Enerjak was just toying with him.

 

[Eseseso]

It’s not a tier change or ability addition, just added justification, so it should be ok.

The only thing that would be changed for ‘Chaos Shadow’ would be a stat downgrade aside from his AP, as he isn’t a super form, just channeling the Chaos Force for a Chaos Blast. Enerjak was just toying with him.

What about his Immeasurable speed? That's his current speed in Chaos Shadow.

 

[y3p_owo]

It’s not a tier change or ability addition, just added justification, so it should be ok.

The only thing that would be changed for ‘Chaos Shadow’ would be a stat downgrade aside from his AP, as he isn’t a super form, just channeling the Chaos Force for a Chaos Blast. Enerjak was just toying with him.

In that case, can both Pre-Genesis and King Shadow's pages please be unlocked so we can replace the Enerjak scaling with this, as well as Enerjak's page to add him being superior than Chaos Shadow to it?

 

[y3p_owo]

In that case, can both Pre-Genesis and King Shadow's pages please be unlocked so we can replace the Enerjak scaling with this, as well as Enerjak's page to add him being superior than Chaos Shadow to it?

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[y3p_owo]

Bump

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Looks fine.

 

[y3p_owo]

Since two admins and a content mod agrees with this, can Pre-Gen Shadow, Light Mobius Shadow, and Enerjak's pages be unlocked?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Since two admins and a content mod agrees with this, can Pre-Gen Shadow, Light Mobius Shadow, and Enerjak's pages be unlocked?

Unlocked.

 

[y3p_owo]

All of them are added. Both the pages and this thread can be locked now.