Asriel Dreemurr vs. Alphamon

[MarvelFanatic119]

Thank you for the input.

Asriel: 2

Alphamon: 4

Tie: 7

Well, if anyone dosen't mind, I'll go request this to be added in already.

 

[Dexteradon12]

I've got to go with Asriel on this one. Soul hax allow him to damage and kill people who can't normal be killed by conventional means.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I've got to go with Asriel on this one. Soul hax allow him to damage and kill people who can't normal be killed by conventional means.

Yes but alphamon does have alpha inforce in which is pretty op.

 

[Dexteradon12]

I've got to go with Asriel on this one. Soul hax allow him to damage and kill people who can't normal be killed by conventional means.

Yes but alphamon does have alpha inforce in which is pretty op.

What's that?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Alpha InForce: Alphamon has access to this legendary Overdrive ability, allowing him to instantly replay the elapsed battle by manipulating causality. Thus he is able to return the state of the battle back to the beginning should he somehow be defeated and allowing him to learn from his previous battles. He is also able to use this ability offensively, instantly replaying his first attack an infinite number of times and target an infinite number of points in space in an instant, making it appear as if he felled his opponent in one blow and rendering his attacks virtually impossible to dodge.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

I've got to go with Asriel on this one. Soul hax allow him to damage and kill people who can't normal be killed by conventional means.

Would Soul Hax work on Digimon though? They technically don't have "souls", but instead these things called "DigiCores", which are coding based, not soul based.

 

[Hectictude]

Sorry, I'm a little bit new to all of this;

Shouldn't this thread be Archived or something? The majority of people on this thread have agreed that it is a Tie; plus, it's already been recorded on both profiles.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Sorry, I'm a little bit new to all of this;
Shouldn't this thread be Archived or something? The majority of people on this thread have agreed that it is a Tie; plus, it's already been recorded on both profiles.

It likely could be closed, but who knows.

 

[Dexteradon12]

I've got to go with Asriel on this one. Soul hax allow him to damage and kill people who can't normal be killed by conventional means.

Would Soul Hax work on Digimon though? They technically don't have "souls", but instead these things called "DigiCores", which are coding based, not soul based.

I've argued that before, but no one else seems to agree with me on the grounds that that would be forcing one verse act on the rules of another verse. *shrugs*

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Its not really the verses "rules" though, since Humans clearly have regular souls. It's just a part of the lore that should be taken into effect.

 

[Dexteradon12]

Its not really the verses "rules" though, since Humans clearly have regular souls. It's just a part of the lore that should be taken into effect.

Depends. Do you think an artificial entity like that would have a soul? It comes down to a lot of things,moslt religion, ethics and and speculation, so we have to assume that it would work the same way. Probobly in this situation, Asriel's magic would damage Alphamon's core like it would damage a soul, sense they are both the "very culmination of your being!" as Flowey describes it.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Gonna go with asriel. It's hinted that he fought with frisk countless times and won them all except for the time the player wins in the actual game, and those were all fights between two 'save scummers', where only the one who had more power was able to alter the timeline and reset. Given that, it seems like either asriel or the digimon would be in a position to reset things, and not both. Given asrials massive speed advantage and soul damaging attacks (where soul is defined as 'the culimnation of your being', as in everything that makes up who you are on every level, not just some spirtitual component that a creature might or might not have based on religion) I'd say that he would get take this.

 

[Reppuzan]

The DigiCore is both like and unlike a soul.

Like a Soul, it forms the core of a Digimon's being. A Digimon can reincarnate indefinitely for as long as its DigiCore remains intact, giving a function similar to a Soul.

However, unlike a Soul, particularly powerful Digimon can have more than one DigiCore (with the most blatant examples being the Digimon Sovereigns, who have twelve cores each).

Would soul hax work on Digimon, yes, I'd think so.

However, Digimon of Alphamon's tier regularly go against foes powerful enough to use soul hax and more, particularly the case in Xros Wars where Omnimon (who is thought to be Alphamon's equal) fought evenly with Bagramon, who has an explicit attack that tears out the opponent's soul. So it stands to reason that Alphamon has some pretty powerful soul hax resistance on top of his conceptual and reality warping resistances.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Gonna go with asriel. It's hinted that he fought with frisk countless times and won them all except for the time the player wins in the actual game, and those were all fights between two 'save scummers', where only the one who had more power was able to alter the timeline and reset. Given that, it seems like either asriel or the digimon would be in a position to reset things, and not both. Given asrials massive speed advantage and soul damaging attacks (where soul is defined as 'the culimnation of your being', as in everything that makes up who you are on every level, not just some spirtitual component that a creature might or might not have based on religion) I'd say that he would get take this.

Not quite since Alpha Inforce is indeed instant and he can use it no matter what.

 

[Talonmask]

I'm on the side of Asriel here, as he does have a definite speed advantage and the soul hax, and if Asriel uses his full power, there's a chance that Alphamon will be able to do nothing but struggle.

Asriel technically has higher DC/AP, the speed advantage, and counters to Alphamon's hax (not to mention having similar abilities)

Not to mention, isn't Asriel incorporeal? Meaning that Alphamon couldn't really physically strike him? I just don't see how Alpha could win, experience wouldn't be an issue in the end since both can just replay the battle to understand their abilities completely, not to mention, Asriel has pretty decent combat experience, since he's lived out every possibility in Undertale as Flowey.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Alphamon and Asriel would have equal experience in combat. I mean Alphamon is a royal knight. Neither one can kill each other as they both reset battles when they are about to lose making the this very inconclusive.

 

[Talonmask]

Yes, but Asriel is still superior in that regard, Alphamon wouldn't be able to react in time before he had already been decimated by Asriel's desperate attempt to get rid of him after a few goes at it, being completely above him in terms of speed.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Alpha Inforce is instant meaning the moment he's getting blitzed, he can reset.

 

[Talonmask]

Immeasurable is completely above Instant.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Immeasurable is completely above Instant.

Does not mean that Alpha Inforce cannot be activated.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Immeasurable is completely above Instant.

Plus these points were already brought up and a conclusion was already reached.

 

[Talonmask]

No, but there's a possibility that he might just drop before then, and even afterwards, he'd just be getting blitzed to death again.

While Alpha Inforce is Instant, it has to be activated by Alphamon, who has reactions that cannot keep up with Asriel.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No, but there's a possibility that he might just drop before then, and even afterwards, he'd just be getting blitzed to death again.

The guy can survive attacks from the mother eater multiple times. I doubt he'd go down that easily.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Read what Alpha Inforce does. And some of the above comments.

 

[Talonmask]

I did already and came to the conclusion that Asriel still wins regardless, Alphamon has to activate this ability with his reaction speed, which won't be able to react to Asriel, meaning that he has the choice of either resetting, or attacking and dying in turn.

 

[Reppuzan]

The Alpha InForce is activated the same way SAVE and LOAD does, it's automatic. Asriel does not need to think about using it, nor does Alphamon have to think about using it. It is an inherent part of his being. Otherwise Omnimon would have to think about his clairvoyance or limitless stamina or UlforceVeedramon would have to think activating his regen.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Based on what we've decided it is still possible.

 

[Talonmask]

The Alpha InForce is activated the same way SAVE and LOAD does, it's automatic. Asriel does not need to think about using it, nor does Alphamon have to think about using it. It is an inherent part of his being. Otherwise Omnimon would have to think about his clairvoyance or limitless stamina or UlforceVeedramon would have to think activating his regen.

I am skeptical that Alpha Inforce is an automatic ability, because that would imply that Alphamon has no say in the matter and his hand is completely forced, which isn't the case because he does choose where to strike, if Alpha InForce was completely automatic, nobody would be touching Alphamon at all since he doesn't have to react, things just happen. He has to act upon it, regardless of it being a part of him.

 

[Reppuzan]

But saying that he can't just reset the fight is ridiculous since that would defeat the point of SAVE and LOAD, if you are deleted into non-existence, you can't possibly think long enough to come back from the dead.

Unfortunately, due to how game-breaking this ability is, it has yet to truly come up in manga and anime canon, so the limitations and full mechanics behind the ability are unknown.

 

[Talonmask]

But saying that he can't just reset the fight is ridiculous since that would defeat the point of SAVE and LOAD, if you are deleted into non-existence, you can't possibly think long enough to come back from the dead.

Unfortunately, due to how game-breaking this ability is, it has yet to truly come up in manga and anime canon, so the limitations and full mechanics behind the ability are unknown.

I not at all implied that all abilities akin to SAVE and LOAD had to be acted upon, but you can't come up with the assumption that because of what the ability does, determines how it functions in terms of how it activates.

Say I can reset time instantly with this ability I have, I would still have to choose to use it for it to do what it does at the speed it does, if it was completely automatic, I would have no control of when it does what it does, which, can be really inefficient in battle, because you don't know when it will come into play. Regardless to say, if he attacks with this ability, he is acting upon it on his own will and therefore it applies to reactions. (Not sure if I made sense here, but ehh.)

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm just saying that I HIGHLY doubt that Alphamon's ability works in such a way that it would not work if he was struck down before he could react... which would defeat the purpose of the ability in the first place.

Your argument also implies that Alphamon would get blitzed and felled... which is hardly true, considering the fact that he tanked multiple hits from the Mother Eater and it's heavily implied that it wouldn't be able to kill him with its best efforts despite possessing several of the same kinds of hax that Asriel does (Reality Warping, Soul Manipulation, Concept Manipulation e.t.c.)

 

[Talonmask]

I'm just saying that I HIGHLY doubt that Alphamon's ability works in such a way that it would not work if he was struck down before he could react... which would defeat the purpose of the ability in the first place.

Your argument also implies that Alphamon would get blitzed and felled... which is hardly true, considering the fact that he tanked multiple hits from the Mother Eater and it's heavily implied that it wouldn't be able to kill him with its best efforts despite possessing several of the same kinds of hax that Asriel does (Reality Warping, Soul Manipulation, Concept Manipulation e.t.c.)

Except Mother Eater is far slower than Asriel, and Asriel could be stronger. I am saying that the likelyhood of Alphamon dying to Asriel is greater than Alphamon dying to Mother Eater. The only thing keeping Alphamon alive would be Alpha InForce, Asriel has this battle completely in his favor.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Asriel is acausal and one if his attacks, Hyper Goner, destroys the space-time continuum. He can continue to act and fight normally even after the total destruction of the concept of time. Unless Alphamon is also acausal he cannot survive such an attack, and since Alphamon does not have at least 'immeasurable' speed, he would not be able to act or react after the destruction of the timeline anyway.

 

[Reppuzan]

Well, first of all, we don't even have a profile for the Mother Eater, so we don't want to make any jumps in logic.

Considering the fact that Alphamon CAN affect intangible beings (he defeated Dexmon, who is literally a mass of data that disintegrates everything around it) and has resisted pretty much everything Asriel has to offer, so I wouldn't think so.

 

[Talonmask]

Well, first of all, we don't even have a profile for the Mother Eater, so we don't want to make any jumps in logic.

Considering the fact that Alphamon CAN affect intangible beings (he defeated Dexmon, who is literally a mass of data that disintegrates everything around it) and has resisted pretty much everything Asriel has to offer, so I wouldn't think so.

Except with his speed setting, we can.

Resisting is different from just being able to survive it, Asriel is still faster meaning that using anything but Alpha InForce to attack is a fruitless effort.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

"has resisted an ability in the past" doesn't work that way. Saying that x has been hit by y type attacks/abilities before does not in any way imply that a stronger or more skillfull or quicker use of a similar ability would not work. That's like claiming that someone is immune to the heat of the sun because they can stand in a campfire and not be hurt. It's like saying that a punch from krillin had no effect so a punch from goku will also have no effect. You have to somehow measure and compare similar abilities before you can make a snap judgement that a character would or would not be totally immune to them.

 

[Reppuzan]

Well, he literally survives everything the Mother Eater throws at him, including multiple attacks that are at the BARE MINIMUM, multi-universal resets, but are more likely to be attacks on Asriel's level since they're both described as being able to affect an infinite number of universes.

Not to mention the fact that he can target an infinite number of points in space, meaning that Asriel's omnipresence would be working against him here.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Meaning asriel's speed is also a weakness when combating alphamon.

 

[Talonmask]

Well, he literally survives everything the Mother Eater throws at him, including multiple attacks that are at the BARE MINIMUM, multi-universal resets, but are more likely to be attacks on Asriel's level since they're both described as being able to affect an infinite number of universes.

Not to mention the fact that he can target an infinite number of points in space, meaning that Asriel's omnipresence would be working against him here.

Asriel effects infinite universes at the bare minimum. Suggesting that he targets the spots goes against the notion that it is automatic, and it is by choice that he uses Alpha InForce, meaning it is held back to his reaction speed. I don't see how this is much of a problem, Asriel is Immeasurable in speed, meaning he isn't bound to time like Alphamon is, he could just strike Alphamon in the past, before he used the ability.

 

[Reppuzan]

Except it would still proc and reset the fight again. Then we'd end up in an endless loop with both of them hitting each an infinite number of times.

Really, this argument is getting really circular.