Asriel Upgrades

[Jinsye]

Done.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. Is there anything left to do here?

 

[Jinsye]

Don't think so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.

 

[Moritzva]

So, Agnaa and I have a few words about these revisions.

 

[Agnaa]

These upgrades were not carried out correctly.

Asriel was given Low-Godly despite being agreed to not scale to that regen. He was given Duplication despite that being agreed to not be added.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Reactive Power Level is being grossly overestimated here, and may need to be removed. Like many others in the thread mentioned Asriel summoned the souls who did these things, rather than using those attacks himself, so he himself would not have Reactive Power level or Duplication, his Memory Head summons would. But more egregiously, that Reactive Power Level was merely a "possibly" on the original profile, while it's presented here without that nuance. On top of that, that ability was seemingly only shown to work on a 9-A scale, so that sort of amp wouldn't be meaningful on a 2-B, unless we're assuming that Memory Heads have 2-B AP...

 

[Planck69]

So he'd have the abilities but with 9-A AP? I guess that makes sense but what do we say about the lost souls harming Full DT Frisk? Does that scale or is it just an inconsistency?

 

[Theglassman12]

@Agnaa why wouldn't he get Low Godly when he has arguably the same amount of Determination as them?

Also Asriel never once summoned any of those monsters. You're literally reaching into his soul to awaken them, they're still a part of his being so why wouldn't he have the powers they have when he literally absorbs them all?

 

[Moritzva]

Has he shown to use their abilities?

 

[Planck69]

Honestly, this is what I'm wondering too. If Frisk has this regen from raw DT then there's no reason too assume that it's somehow inherent to them considering how even Asriel and maybe Photoshop Flowey should have comparable levels of the stuff.

 

[Agnaa]

@Agnaa why wouldn't he get Low Godly when he has arguably the same amount of Determination as them?

Also Asriel never once summoned any of those monsters. You're literally reaching into his soul to awaken them, they're still a part of his being so why wouldn't he have the powers they have when he literally absorbs them all?

Also @Planck69 Didn't Frisk only demonstrate that level of Regenerationn during the Asriel fight? Considering that Frisk had more determination than the amalgamations while fighting them (proven by the fact that they could still save/load) yet didn't have that level of Regenerationn, it seems like it's not JUST "X level of determination = always has low-godly regen", physiology, etc. might be involved.

Sorry summoned was the wrong word, maybe "They're a part of Asriel that is reached into" is better? I'm trying to get across that Asriel never used them himself or demonstrated that he could, but those souls that were inside him could use them.

And this thread already agreed that Asriel should be able to utilize them in battle to some extent; physiology-based stuff is all that's been rejected (and which wasn't properly implemented).

 

[Planck69]

Also @Planck69 Didn't Frisk only demonstrate that level of Regenerationn during the Asriel fight? Considering that Frisk had more determination than the amalgamations while fighting them (proven by the fact that they could still save/load) yet didn't have that level of Regenerationn, it seems like it's not JUST "X level of determination = always has low-godly regen", physiology, etc. might be involved.

Or, you know, neither the Amalgamates nor them had enough DT to regenerate on that scale which is why she doesn't show-case it at this point in time? It seems far more likely that this and the fact that the only time we see anything implying the DT boost happened is right before we fight Asriel makes Low-Godly something only the highest levels of DT can access (which doesn't include Pre-Asriel Frisk and the Amalgamates).

 

[Agnaa]

Or, you know, neither the Amalgamates nor them had enough DT to regenerate on that scale which is why she doesn't show-case it at this point in time?

Oh my bad, I thought people were bringing up Amalgamates because they actually had feats of low-godly, I didn't realize they were just assumed to have that.

If the only low-godly feat is from the fight with Asriel, how do we know that Asriel had more DT than Frisk during that fight?

 

[Planck69]

At this point, we'd just need to prove that Asriel is around Frisk's level of DT. Well, Photoshop Flowey did overpower and usurp their ability to SAVE and LOAD so I'd assume he held more DT at the time, albeit briefly and Asriel should be far superior. But I dunno, it was removed from Flowey's profile so there might be external reasoning that I'm missing.

 

[Agnaa]

Photoshop Flowey stumped Frisk's level of DT, but Frisk didn't have low-godly then, so it's not a super useful feat.

 

[Planck69]

Photoshop Flowey stumped Frisk's level of DT, but Frisk didn't have low-godly then, so it's not a super useful feat.

I'm fairly sure that Asriel's DT is superior enough to Photoshop Flowey that it's at least comparable to End of Pacifist Route Frisk. If we can't agree on this then a "Possibly/Likely" moderator would work just as fine.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Isn't the only godly feat when Frisk recreated the mitltiverse after Chara destroyed it?

That made the game crash instead of Frisk "refusing".

When Asriel ate the timeline Frisk still had a body (which they couldn't move because angel of death).

 

[Planck69]

Isn't the only godly feat when Frisk recreated the mitltiverse after Chara destroyed it?

That made the game crash instead of Frisk "refusing".

When Asriel ate the timeline Frisk still had a body (which they couldn't move because angel of death).

What about Photoshop Flowey nuking the timeline and replacing it with his own? Does Frisk tank that or is that another feat of Low-Godly?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

There is no reason to assume their body was destroyed.

 

[Planck69]

There is no reason to assume their body was destroyed.

Right. Well at the very least Frisk has a concrete Low 2-C durability feat for once we downgrade them (though those revisions will probably be completed by the time Deltarune is finished).

 

[Antvasima]

@Agnaa

So what do we need to do here?

 

[Agnaa]

In my opinion, Low-Godly Regenerationn should be changed to Unknown Regenerationn, and Reactive Power Level/Duplication should be removed, or otherwise understood to only be on such a scale that it's kinda worthless in matches.

 

[Overlord775]

Why tho ?

Asriel in this state has comparable Determination to Frisk since the latter can't just reset the timeline, so the goat god would have Low-Godly Regen by scaling

also i don't see why the Reactive Evolution would be "Worthless" in matches

 

[Agnaa]

I think I may have been mistaken before, Ricsi said that Frisk's only Low-Godly feat is at the end of the genocide route, and we can't really compare the amount of DT there to the true pacifist route.

If there is a low-godly feat in the Asriel fight, is Frisk unable to save/load because of lack of DT, or because the timeline's gone? afaik we don't see Asriel save/load in this fight either.

Reactive Evolution would be worthless in matches because it's only been shown on a 9-A scale, and assuming that a 9-A AP copy would work on 2-B or above opponents is unreasonable.

 

[Overlord775]

Uh, that's not a regen feat, after the genocide run there's a true reset, then regen feat is Frisk pulling his soul togheter and refusing to die when Asriel kills him..

as seen by the end Genocide Run, a lack of timeline doesn't block resets from appening.

Asriel was unable to save/load because Frisk's determination was on the same level and thus blocked him from doing it.

 

[Agnaa]

Isn't the only godly feat when Frisk recreated the mitltiverse after Chara destroyed it? That made the game crash instead of Frisk "refusing". When Asriel ate the timeline Frisk still had a body (which they couldn't move because angel of death).
	~ Risci​

Why is pulling body and soul back together when neither have been completely destroyed a low-godly feat?

There was a reset at the end of the genocide run?

I mean, it's never said that they have the same level of determination, and it's never said that when the top two sources of determination are equal that neither can use it for timeline resets. I really don't like stacking so many assumptions on top of each other to get an ability.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No. Frisk's soul reforms before the reset, and can stay in the void if they refuse Chara. Their soul and body is destroyed quite clearly.

Refusing is not a regen feat. We have zero idea what Frisk's body is going through, and their soul is only ever broken half.

 

[Overlord775]

@Agnaa

Because even Flowey doesn't remember what happened, and he keeps the memories from normal resets, even when killed, with the only exception being true resets.

also Asriel directly stated during his fight that he wanted to reset the timeline, but couldn't do so because of Frisk

@Ricsi

Chara isn't talking to Frisk at the End of the Genocide run, but to the player, the Anomaly

healing soul damage probably counts as Low-Godly.

 

[Agnaa]

Because even Flowey doesn't remember what happened, and he keeps the memories from normal resets, even when killed, with the only exception being true resets.

I don't understand what this is responding to.

also Asriel directly stated during his fight that he wanted to reset the timeline, but couldn't do so because of Frisk

You're right, my bad.

healing soul damage probably counts as Low-Godly.

I really don't think it should. I don't think it's right to give every Defender's Quest: Valley of the Forgotte character Low-Godly because their souls can get attacked and they can regen...

 

[Overlord775]

Because even Flowey doesn't remember what happened, and he keeps the memories from normal resets, even when killed, with the only exception being true resets.
I don't understand what this is responding to.

to your question about why it had to be a True Reset

 

[Agnaa]

Oh. I consider "True Resets" to be a different thing from the normal save/loads that happen, considering their wildly different effects. So I don't think "as seen by the end Genocide Run, a lack of timeline doesn't block resets from appening." is a valid argument, but that doesn't matter since Asriel said he wanted to reset the timeline but couldn't because of Frisk.

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached a conclusion here?

 

[Ultra_instinct_shaggy_528]

Wow people still commenting