Undertale CRT

[VIZION99]

Frisk​

normally key

Accelerated Development (Leveling; Physical Stats): Frisk becomes stronger each time they kill someone. Would become strong enough to one shot Toriel, something not normally possible.

Frisk's Immense Determination should be upgraded to Low-2-C since they can fight Omega Flowey who has became Low-2-C.

Sans​

Minor Space-Time Manipulation: He can prank Frisk across time and space
Removal of Intangible Attacks: Bypassing Frisk's INV frames does not imply that his attacks are intangible, that is just durability negation. Also the scan just shows his attacks hitting Frisk's soul, not their body.
Selective Additional Intangibility would be changed Selective Intangible Attacks

Papyrus​

Selective Intangible Attacks: His attacks can only be evaded if the target remains perfectly still

Chara​

Post Death - Without a host key
Limited Law Manipulation: Chara can break the combat system by attacking Sans while he is talking.
Absolute Key:
Limited Law Manipulation: Should have this ability from their previous key.
SOUL Absorption, Fusionisn, Self-Sustenance (Type 1): Should have these abilities from their pre-death key
Invulnerability: Is implied to be invincible
Light Manipulation: Causes the screen to flash red.
Vibration Manipualtion: Causes the game to shake

Asgore​

New weakness: If Asgore is fighting a aggressive foe, he will refuse to fight and will try to talk his way out

Asriel​

God of Hyperdeath key
Invulnerability: Has infinite defense. Can't be harmed by Frisk

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'll reply to only stuff I think it's wrong, rest I don't care enough.

Frisk's Immense Determination should be upgraded to Low-2-C since they can fight Omega Flowey who has became Low-2-C.

Flowey was holding back all the time, as shown by the fact that once he stopped toying with Frisk, he could blitz and one shot them several times over. Neutral Frisk cannot scale to Photoshop Flowey in any capacity.

Minor Space-Time Manipulation: He can prank Frisk across time and space

This is way too vague to warrant any kind of manipulation.

Removal of Intangible Attacks: Bypassing Frisk's INV frames does not imply that his attacks are intangible, that is just durability negation. Also the scan just shows his attacks hitting Frisk's soul, not their body.

They are intangible due to the fact that go through Frisk's SOUL instead of just disappearing on impact like any other attack does.

Plus on this wiki is accepted that the SOUL is a representation of the body and attempts to make the Battle Box literal were rejected multiple times.

Invulnerability: Is implied to be invincible

This sounds more about just becoming very strong through stat increases than a literal Super Sonic-esque invulnerability.

New weakness: If Asgore is fighting a aggressive foe, he will refuse to fight and will try to talk his way out

Huh... no? It was because of him being informed prior by Flowey, and he didn't believe that such a being could be a human, hence why he asked us first. Even Undyne said this prior to the Undying fight. But Asgore was still going full out on Frisk even in a Neutral no-mercy route.

He's the same Asgore that survived the war against humans after all.

Invulnerability: Has infinite defense. Can't be harmed by Frisk

This is just higher in 2-B durability, has nothing to do with actual invulnerability.

 

[MrTayman616]

I agree with StrymULTRA.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Huh... no? It was because of him being informed prior by Flowey, and he didn't believe that such a being could be a human, hence why he asked us first. Even Undyne said this prior to the Undying fight. But Asgore was still going full out on Frisk even in a Neutral no-mercy route.

He's the same Asgore that survived the war against humans after all.

Don't think Flowey actually told him that we're a human, pretty sure that's why he asked us what type of Monster we are.
He definitely wasn't doing a "You're too evil to even BE a human" considering he legit tries to talk it out like, 2 seconds later.

And that doesn’t really change the fact that Asgore was explicitly warned about us and still attempted to de-escalate the situation, even after we initiated the FIGHT. Like, say in a Versus thread, Striker attacks Asgore, Asgore wouldn’t just immediately blast him to ash. He’d at least try to resolve things peacefully first.

 

[StrymULTRA]

And that doesn’t really change the fact that Asgore was explicitly warned about us and still attempted to de-escalate the situation, even after we initiated the FIGHT. Like, say in a Versus thread, Striker attacks Asgore, Asgore wouldn’t just immediately blast him to ash. He’d at least try to resolve things peacefully first.

Tbf SBA just invalidates this as it makes the character fully willing to fight and not restricted by whatever pacifism, as otherwise it makes them unusable in fights.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Tbf SBA just invalidates this as it makes the character fully willing to fight and not restricted by whatever pacifism, as otherwise it makes them unusable in fights.

I mean, he's still very much willing to fight (You know, his boss fight), he's just I suppose slower on the trigger?
Like SBA doesn't make characters with a no-kill rule kill, so don't see why it would change much here.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, he's still very much willing to fight (You know, his boss fight), he's just I suppose slower on the trigger?
Like SBA doesn't make characters with a no-kill rule kill, so don't see why it would change much here.

State of mind: In character, but will attempt to win the battle. Characters will not give up of their own accord. That means a character that is uninterested or sees no chance of winning won't simply leave and characters wouldn't simply become friends with each other. This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma.

Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

Asgore would literally start to fight because of his own accord, he would not try to befriend at first. Plus you're kinda strawmanning me with the killing argument, as SBA makes characters want to win, not kill, even if it's still by violent means.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences. The characters will assume their opponents have not been forced into battle. They are assumed to have decided from free will to fight and are not excused by a just cause, difficult times or otherwise exonerating circumstances. Furthermore, the situation is assumed one where the opponents are not protected by social norms or consequences, such as being a civilian protected by law.

Literally the exact same situation as the Genocide Route (He was warned that we were going to attack him and we did just that).
Like, Superman isn't going to throw some rando human into the sun or go as hard against them if they initiated the fight, compared to like, Doomsday.

What makes it worse is that Undyne literally compares Pacifist Frisk to Asgore. Having Asgore insta-vaporize lads in Versus Threads is kinda akin to having Papyrus kill people ngl

 

[StrymULTRA]

Like, Superman isn't going to throw some rando human into the sun or go as hard against them if they initiated the fight, compared to like, Doomsday.

He'd still go by actually attacking them though. Why wouldn't Asgore just use fireballs like Toriel did with Frisk?

Having Asgore insta-vaporize lads in Versus Threads is kinda akin to having Papyrus kill people ngl

Another strawman, bravo! Papyrus would still be aggressive and still try to win by KO given the SBA rules. Idk why are you making Asgore some kind of pacifistic when in the Neutral he just fights us.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

He'd still go by actually attacking them though. Why wouldn't Asgore just use fireballs like Toriel did with Frisk?

Because that’s just not what he does? When Undyne attacked him, he literally just dodged until she exhausted herself (Hmm, who does that remind me of).
Some arrogant as hell characters, like let's go with the Adversary, doesn't initiate the fight unless her opponent is fully ready, and even then she lets them take the first hit.
SBA doesn’t magically erase her sense of "honor" and turn her into someone who just runs up and punches people.

Another strawman, bravo! Papyrus would still be aggressive and still try to win by KO given the SBA rules.

Yes? Papyrus loves combat? He’s not a pacifist, he just has enough control over his magic to not kill us, unlike most Monsters.

Idk why are you making Asgore some kind of pacifistic when in the Neutral he just fights us.

Let’s not act like Asgore's Neutral Route fight is in any way standard, considering ya know, Frisk holds the key to Monsterkind’s freedom, and his promise to his people.
And even then, he drags his feet every step of the way.

Like,
Bloodlusted Asgore just shoots fire at his opponent and vaporizes them.
In-character Asgore just shoots fire at his opponent and vaporizes them.
You don't see the problem with that?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Some arrogant as hell characters, like let's go with the Adversary, doesn't initiate the fight unless her opponent is fully ready, and even then she lets them take the first hit.
SBA doesn’t magically erase her sense of "honor" and turn her into someone who just runs up and punches people.

It does not make them walking punching bags either.

Yes? Papyrus loves combat? He’s not a pacifist, he just has enough control over his magic to not kill us, unlike most Monsters.

Ok but you still used him as a point which is weird.

Let’s not act like Asgore's Neutral Route fight is in any way standard, considering ya know, Frisk holds the key to Monsterkind’s freedom, and his promise to his people.

It's either that or the Genocide tbh. When you have so little info like this...

Like,
Bloodlusted Asgore just shoots fire at his opponent and vaporizes them.
In-character Asgore just shoots fire at his opponent and vaporizes them.
You don't see the problem with that?

This is you assuming it has to be different. It's your standards here than anything.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It does not make them walking punching bags either.

Never argued so. Asgore will obviously fight back if he's in actual danger, he just won't, again, start with that immediately.

Ok but you still used him as a point which is weird.

I meant it more as in, this is a defining character trait, disregarding it completely in favor of Versus Matches, when it doesn't impact them much unless it's shit like, who one-shots the other first, is bad duh.

It's either that or the Genocide tbh. When you have so little info like this...

So

1. The one where he has to fight for the sake of Monsterkind’s freedom, and he still delays it as long as he can.
2. The one that matches SBA perfectly, where some rando attacks him.

And that’s not even all. We also have the Undyne thing and her directly comparing him to Frisk.
Like I feel this is a consistent thing.

I dunno why we're treating SBA as the be-all-end-all either. It’s just a baseline, people are allowed to make up whatever scenario they want beyond it.

 

[VIZION99]

Flowey was holding back all the time, as shown by the fact that once he stopped toying with Frisk, he could blitz and one shot them several times over. Neutral Frisk cannot scale to Photoshop Flowey in any capacity.

Frisk is still capable of damaging him so it would make sense for Frisk to still be Low-2-C, just a much lower degree than Flowey.

Huh... no? It was because of him being informed prior by Flowey, and he didn't believe that such a being could be a human, hence why he asked us first. Even Undyne said this prior to the Undying fight. But Asgore was still going full out on Frisk even in a Neutral no-mercy route.

He's the same Asgore that survived the war against humans after all.

Let me make it more clear, if he is fighting someone evil (like Frisk on genocide route), he will refuse to fight.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Let me make it more clear, if he is fighting someone evil (like Frisk on genocide route), he will refuse to fight.

That's a pretty significant leap from him trying to talk things out with someone who, as far as he knows, is just a pretty aggressive Monster, but that's about it.
Saying he outright refuses to fight is also just inaccurate. As Strym pointed out, he was literally on the front lines during the war. He clearly can and will fight if necessary.

Plus, framing it as something he only does when facing someone evil, when it's how he reacts to pretty much anyone who attacks him.
Like, it's clearly to do with his reluctance and restraint rather than an evil condition lol

 

[VIZION99]

That's a pretty significant leap from him trying to talk things out with someone who, as far as he knows, is just a pretty aggressive Monster, but that's about it.
Saying he outright refuses to fight is just inaccurate. As Strym pointed out, he was literally on the front lines during the war. He clearly can and will fight if necessary.

Also framing it as something he only does when facing someone evil, when it's how he reacts to pretty much anyone who attacks him.
Like, it's clearly to do with his reluctance and restraint rather than an evil condition lol

In pacifist and neutral, he fights and in genocide, he just tried to talk it out instead of fighting. Don't you get the point?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

In pacifist and neutral, he fights and in genocide, he just tried to talk it out instead of fighting. Don't you get the point?

Yeah, but it's not because of how evil Frisk is.
In Pacifist and Neutral, he recognizes us as a Human, the last SOUL needed to break the barrier and set Monsters free, and also knows that for said human to go home, they have to kill him and absorb his SOUL, so their fight is virtually inevitable.
In Genocide, he thinks we're some weird lookin Monster (Due to LV's effects or whatever) who terrorized Flowey.

 

[Comiphorous]

In pacifist and neutral, he fights and in genocide, he just tried to talk it out instead of fighting. Don't you get the point?

The only reason he doesn't fight you in genocide is because he didn't know you're a human. it has nothing to do with whether the character is evil or not. he deadass didn't know a human was infront of him.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

In Genocide, he thinks we're some weird lookin Monster (Due to LV's effects or whatever) who terrorized Flowey.

(I never realized that Asgore most likely doesn’t know about the genocide and only knows that Flowey cries about us. This makes sense now)

 

[StrymULTRA]

Frisk is still capable of damaging him so it would make sense for Frisk to still be Low-2-C, just a much lower degree than Flowey.

Nah. Frisk's Determination was completely overpowered and without the aid of the SOULs they'd just have kept to die endlessly against him.

That and the fact that Undertale treats Low 2-C as just with a finite ATK/DEF stat, as only when he gets 7 SOULs he has Infinite ATK/DEF, and wouldn't really make sense if Asriel and Photoshop Flowey had both infinite stats, especially when Flowey reffers to his 7 SOULs form as being literally God. Besides that it's not even the first work of fiction that doesn't treat Tier 2/1 stats as literally being infinitely stronger than what's below them, as that's something that only we powerscalers know, while authors do not really care.

 

[FinePoint]

Accelerated Development (Leveling; Physical Stats): Frisk becomes stronger each time they kill someone. Would become strong enough to one shot Toriel, something not normally possible.

Sure.

Frisk's Immense Determination should be upgraded to Low-2-C since they can fight Omega Flowey who has became Low-2-C.

No. Flowey was toying with them and they ultimately needed help from the other souls.

Minor Space-Time Manipulation: He can prank Frisk across time and space

Sure.

Removal of Intangible Attacks: Bypassing Frisk's INV frames does not imply that his attacks are intangible, that is just durability negation. Also the scan just shows his attacks hitting Frisk's soul, not their body.
Selective Additional Intangibility would be changed Selective Intangible Attacks

Agreed.

Papyrus​

Selective Intangible Attacks: His attacks can only be evaded if the target remains perfectly still

Seems fine.

Chara​

Post Death - Without a host key
Limited Law Manipulation: Chara can break the combat system by attacking Sans while he is talking.

This is technically head-canon, sorry. We don't receive confirmation how the second attack happened.

SOUL Absorption, Fusionisn, Self-Sustenance (Type 1): Should have these abilities from their pre-death key

Why?

Invulnerability: Is implied to be invincible

Too vague.

Light Manipulation: Causes the screen to flash red.

Too vague.

Vibration Manipualtion: Causes the game to shake

Too vague.

New weakness: If Asgore is fighting a aggressive foe, he will refuse to fight and will try to talk his way out

No. The reason he didn't attack Chara is because he didn't recognize them as human.

Asriel​

God of Hyperdeath key
Invulnerability: Has infinite defense. Can't be harmed by Frisk

This is clearly just durability.

 

[VIZION99]

Sure.

No. Flowey was toying with them and they ultimately needed help from the other souls.

Sure.

Agreed.

Seems fine.

This is technically head-canon, sorry. We don't receive confirmation how the second attack happened.

Why?

Too vague.

Too vague.

Too vague.

No. The reason he didn't attack Chara is because he didn't recognize them as human.

This is clearly just durability.

Thanks for helping. Are you able to ping other staff members?

 

[FinePoint]

Thanks for helping. Are you able to ping other staff members?

Sure.

@KingTempest @Catzlaflame @Duedate8898 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Mr. Bambu

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Sure.

Just curious, what do you think of this:

They are intangible due to the fact that go through Frisk's SOUL instead of just disappearing on impact like any other attack does.

Plus on this wiki is accepted that the SOUL is a representation of the body and attempts to make the Battle Box literal were rejected multiple times.

 

[Zabazab]

Minor Space-Time Manipulation: He can prank Frisk across time and space

As I recall, the context of this line is the fact that sans knows Frisk can manipulate the space-time continuum and sent them on a wild goose chase, ending with an anticlimactic reward (his messy room).

Basically this is just pranking a character who does have space-time manip. Sans himself was not manipulating space-time in any way.

 

[FinePoint]

Just curious, what do you think of this:

Well, it's simply not true.

There are other attacks in the game which your soul goes through without deleting, they just respect your I-frames.

 

[StrymULTRA]

There are other attacks in the game which your soul goes through without deleting, they just respect your I-frames.

Which ones? Because to my knowledge only Sans' ones do this.

 

[FinePoint]

Which ones? Because to my knowledge only Sans' ones do this.

Off the top of my head, I think Dogamy and Dogaressa.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I agree with FinePoint.

 

[VIZION99]

I agree with FinePoint.

Is the CRT approved now?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

If no other staff have any issues, sure.

 

[VIZION99]

thanks