Asta begins his martial artist training

[azontr]

Real

 

[Kachon123]

The debate literally just sta-

Asta doesn't seem to have anything decisive over Garou. Most of his abilities are magic related. On the other hand, Garou seems to have higher combat skill and can one-shot with dura neg. He also has better RE and AD afaik. Voting for Garou

I don't think you are missing anything really, while this Garou key dura neg isn't as potent as his Fa Jin techniques its still enough to make foes comparable to him just collapse by being graced with it.

Garou doesn't use mana

Also this Garou key already starts with an LS advantage

I haven't seen a single good argument for Asta yet, so I'll vote for Garou.

 

[Recon1511]

The debate literally just sta-

Garou adapted before you could even make one argument

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I haven't seen a single good argument for Asta yet

The debate literally just sta-

Yeah I wonder why…

 

[Kachon123]

Garou adapted before you could even make one argument

Truly tragic.

 

[Recon1511]

Bump?

 

[Sniper670]

I hate to break it to you but...... Asta solos

 

[Recon1511]

I will just wait for Arnold response since he seems to be the only BC supporter that will actually make an argument

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Well Garou has only faced one swordsmen that being Spring Moustachio so I don't really know that being said adaptation is one of his best traits and he has the WSRF technique to deflect attacks not to mention with the LS advantage he could straight up catch the sword and break it

Seems like Garou doesn't have fighting experience against swordsmen. Well, Asta does against Taijutsu, and it is even emphasized in this final arc. So the adaptation works by copying and mastering the skill in a short period of time correct me if I'm wrong. However, this hasn't been done for weapons. So how does Adaptation work against things that he physically doesn't have? like a sword to adapt to copy and master swordsmanship. If this is not how his adaptation works then lmk how it works in detail ig.


So here are some of what Asta can do here

• by reading Garou’s Ki, he can predict his attacks/moves and act accordingly.
• Asta copied Kiato’s swordsmanship into his fighting style, allowing him to throw off his opponents senses and dodge attacks.
• As he did with Kiato, he also assimilated 4 other swordsmen. He uses these skills in addition to his own skill to outskill his opponents. In the final arc, he already learnt Zetten, which takes decades to perform, in one try. Now he’s trying to master it and I don’t even think the day is over yet and he already figured out how to incorporate his Zetten into his fighting style.
• I’m sure you guys know about his RPL. “Surpassing his limits”. He grows fast in battle. But I won’t get in too much on that.

So Garou mainly has to deal with Asta’s precognition then his senses getting thrown off which makes it hard for Garou to land attacks or maybe even a grab without getting his hand sliced off. And just Asta’s swordsmanship skill up till this point in the series and ranged attacks.

Do you have examples of his precog in combat? The profile isn't very helpful. Also, how do his moves exactly confuse the senses of his opponents?

There are many instances. Has predicted his opponents moves, teleportations, falling rocks, explosions and attacks etc. He can use it for other things like reading a persons mind and so on.

As for the sense thing. simply put, Asta’s movements can’t be tracked allowing Asta to defend against or dodge attacks easily.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I will just wait for Arnold response since he seems to be the only BC supporter that will actually make an argument

Im the only one crazy enough to participate in matches like this

 

[Maitreya12]

Eh I’m not really being convinced on the Asta arguments here.

For one Garou has a precognition similar to Asta in that he can read and perfectly predict his opponents next moves and act accordingly to them.

Garou has dealt with swordsmanship before and he’s demonstrated that he’s able to deflect sword attacks just as easily as regular attacks with water streaming rock smashing fist. (Royal Ripper for example.)

He has durability negation which can immediately pulverize you to dust from the inside out and works on characters as strong as him.

He has great regen, able to heal lost limbs instantly and other substantial wounds like an entirety destroyed rib cage and a see through hole in his gut.

And he has an absurdly busted reactive evolution that would make him far exceeds Asta’s level of strength in literal moments.

So yeah, still voting for Garou on this one.

 

[Kin201]

I'm not catching up to BC but does Asta have any hax that can kill Garou? If not, I'm seeing he is outclassed in h2h here. Garou is too much versatile in hand-to-hand combat compared to the Asta I know.

 

[SuperStar]

I'm not catching up to BC but does Asta have any hax that can kill Garou?

No

 

[Kin201]

No

Alright.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Sigh

Eh I’m not really being convinced on the Asta arguments here.

ok, at least address it with what Garou can do against it, cuz you basically said “Garou has this too, he also has this this and this so I don’t care if Asta takes care of them and I’m too lazy to wait for counter arguments so I will remind you that I still vote Garou”

For one Garou has a precognition similar to Asta in that he can read and perfectly predict his opponents next moves and act accordingly to them.

ok and? Remember when I mentioned what makes his opponent hard to hit him. It also works on those whose prediction abilities are “similar to Asta”.

Garou has dealt with swordsmanship before and he’s demonstrated that he’s able to deflect sword attacks just as easily as regular attacks with water streaming rock smashing fist. (Royal Ripper for example.)

Are they as skilled as Asta?

He has durability negation which can immediately pulverize you to dust from the inside out and works on characters as strong as him.

Well Bang wasn’t pulverized to dust but okay… okay… Assuming Garou can land it on him.

He has great regen, able to heal lost limbs instantly and other substantial wounds like an entirety destroyed rib cage and a see through hole in his gut.

Can’t remember this Garou regenerating lost limbs instantly. However I do remember the rest. So Asta just has to inflict more severe wound than his regen can take. Apart from the hacks and slashes. His more severe wounds also took an unknown amount of time to regenerate.

 

[Epiccheev]

Bang was grazed in the chest, and then he said that if he got hit directly the shockwaves would have enveloped him and turned his bones to dust, as the shockwaves keep resounding through the afflicted area to cause said effect.
Besides the RASRF travels through dense material like bones/carapaces/ and can cover kilometer wide bodies like the big centipedes.

Imo Garou here has better survivability with regen even while his growth is impaired by the key used in terms of AP and apparently speed( not sure if he's allowed to grow past his 6-A, since that's what the key caps at. In speed i think he can grow faster, just not to the point of blitzing? ) and unarguably better offense, since even a graze will lead to possibly incap worthy to heavy damage, while a direct hit is an instant win.

Asta has better range and bladed damage due to swords and can also probably use them to block RASRF assuming it won't flow from the sword to his bones, but might still end up hurting his hands if the vibrations flow through it. Devil Union gives him a big boost in range through slashing shockwaves and better mobility with flight, wich is bad for this Garou, but it only lasts up to 5 minutes ( correct me if i'm wrong ) so far. Plus extra distance also increases dodging/deflecting chances.

WSRSF let's him handle bladed attacks no problem and his monster shell can likely decrease the impact of bladed damage in case he gets hit. Both Garou and Asta have tons of endurance, but i say Garou edges out due to regen. Flight and range spam is troublesome, but Garou can likely outlast 5 minutes of being pressured.

All in all, Asta will need to land a mean combo beatdown on Garou to beat him, all while making sure he can't even land a graze by dodging his every blow. (And when fighting sword users like Royal Ripper and Spring Mustachio he is shown to be very happy to take a positive damage trade, as in let himself get hit to trap the blade or block it with a joint in order to get a blow in.) Not to mention Garou grabing the blades is bad news due to the LS difference.

In order for Asta to win here we'd have to assume he can skillstomp this Garou so badly he'd be getting clobbered left and right while failing to dish out a single meaningful counter that can even graze him even while steadily growing in speed and skill without abusing blocks or parrying. Wich frankly, i don't buy at all.

 

[Maitreya12]

Sigh

Lmao, the long winded sigh. Ok buddy.

ok, at least address it with what Garou can do against it, cuz you basically said “Garou has this too, he also has this this and this so I don’t care if Asta takes care of them and I’m too lazy to wait for counter arguments so I will remind you that I still vote Garou”

Yes I do think with Garou’s arsenal, move set, and abilities they outperform Asta’s move set on its own. I will not elaborate

Goofy ah

ok and? Remember when I mentioned what makes his opponent hard to hit him. It also works on those whose prediction abilities are “similar to Asta”.

Cool…Garou can still literally just adapt and evolve to with his skill level too lol. It’s a really hard ability cause Garou has some busted reactive evolution.

Are they as skilled as Asta?

Nope but not necessarily needed. Since 1 he’s deflecting then with WSRSF, meaning the martial art in of itself is effective against swordsmanship, and also other more skilled swordsmanship/spear work and that level of skill he has with the martial art is ridiculous. And 2. Garou can also literally just adapt to Asta.

Well Bang wasn’t pulverized to dust but okay… okay… Assuming Garou can land it on him.

Because he never took a direct hit? It was stated his bones were gonna turn to dust if he did lol. Plus when a graze literally took him out of the fight completely.

So even a graze would be significant damage to Asta.

Can’t remember this Garou regenerating lost limbs instantly. However I do remember the rest. So Asta just has to inflict more severe wound than his regen can take. Apart from the hacks and slashes. His more severe wounds also took an unknown amount of time to regenerate.

Here you go. And no, his rib cage and hole in his gut were regenerated instantly when he went into spiral Garou mode. Including all of his severe burns at the hands of Orochi as well.

So Asta’s gonna have a pretty hard time dealing with that level of regen. All assuming Garou doesn’t just adapt GG immediately into the fight of course.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Bang was grazed in the chest, and then he said that if he got hit directly the shockwaves would have enveloped him and turned his bones to dust, as the shockwaves keep resounding through the afflicted area to cause said effect.
Besides the RASRF travels through dense material like bones/carapaces/ and can cover kilometer wide bodies like the big centipedes.

I know the ability, I was wondering why he said Bang was pulverized to dust from the inside out. Wtf.

 

[Maitreya12]

I know the ability, I was wondering why he said Bang was pulverized to dust from the inside out. Wtf.

I….didn’t?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He has durability negation which can immediately pulverize you to dust from the inside out and works on characters as strong as him.

edit: wtf why did it change to Epiccheev? I need my laptop for this ong.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Is Asta up against Monster Garou? Is that Garou’s third key?

 

[Epiccheev]

It's the 6-A key from the Post darkshine key. It comes after he fought Bang while sleeping and before he bisected Sage Centipede and reached his "perfected fist"
He doesn't have Fa Jin yet and his growth is at it's peak, so he can't surpass 6-A AP. His speed can apparently grow by what people said, just not to the point of a blitz.

 

[Maitreya12]

So wait, Garou can’t grow any stronger than he is now or he can’t surpass the 6A key in general.

Like could he reach his “perfected” key is what I mean since this same key Garou did do exactly that against SC

 

[Arnoldstone18]

It's the 6-A key from the Post darkshine key. It comes after he fought Bang while sleeping and before he bisected Sage Centipede and reached his "perfected fist"
He doesn't have Fa Jin yet and his growth is at it's peak, so he can't surpass 6-A AP. His speed can apparently grow by what people said, just not to the point of a blitz.

Oh okay thanks.

Bang was grazed in the chest, and then he said that if he got hit directly the shockwaves would have enveloped him and turned his bones to dust, as the shockwaves keep resounding through the afflicted area to cause said effect.
Besides the RASRF travels through dense material like bones/carapaces/ and can cover kilometer wide bodies like the big centipedes.

Imo Garou here has better survivability with regen even while his growth is impaired by the key used in terms of AP and apparently speed( not sure if he's allowed to grow past his 6-A, since that's what the key caps at. In speed i think he can grow faster, just not to the point of blitzing? ) and unarguably better offense, since even a graze will lead to possibly incap worthy to heavy damage, while a direct hit is an instant win.

Asta has better range and bladed damage due to swords and can also probably use them to block RASRF assuming it won't flow from the sword to his bones, but might still end up hurting his hands if the vibrations flow through it. Devil Union gives him a big boost in range through slashing shockwaves and better mobility with flight, wich is bad for this Garou, but it only lasts up to 5 minutes ( correct me if i'm wrong ) so far. Plus extra distance also increases dodging/deflecting chances.

WSRSF let's him handle bladed attacks no problem and his monster shell can likely decrease the impact of bladed damage in case he gets hit. Both Garou and Asta have tons of endurance, but i say Garou edges out due to regen. Flight and range spam is troublesome, but Garou can likely outlast 5 minutes of being pressured.

All in all, Asta will need to land a mean combo beatdown on Garou to beat him, all while making sure he can't even land a graze by dodging his every blow. (And when fighting sword users like Royal Ripper and Spring Mustachio he is shown to be very happy to take a positive damage trade, as in let himself get hit to trap the blade or block it with a joint in order to get a blow in.) Not to mention Garou grabing the blades is bad news due to the LS difference.

In order for Asta to win here we'd have to assume he can skillstomp this Garou so badly he'd be getting clobbered left and right while failing to dish out a single meaningful counter that can even graze him even while steadily growing in speed and skill without abusing blocks or parrying. Wich frankly, i don't buy at all.

So I just have to convince you Asta right now can skill stomp Garou? Okay I’ll at least convince you Asta can at least prevent attacks from landing on him.

For anyone reading this, it’s not h2h combat, it’s hand… to well… blade. Kenjutsu vs Taijutsu as I said earlier. So keep that in mind before spamming Garou skill stomps.

so Asta’s accelerated development and RPL helps him develop skills, power and abilities to get out of tough situations. An example is when he developed his Ki sensing after two tries to track fireballs that were unpredictable (they disappear and appear elsewhere at point blank ranges), etc. When Asta has experience of something that put him at a disadvantage, he would either train or in battle overcome it (especially with his trademark “surpassing limits”). Asta has experienced Kenjutsu vs Taijutsu many times, it’s even emphasized in this final arc too. With experience, Asta was able to outskill Lucius which Asta described to be on par with Lucifero’s skills and Lucifero outskills swordsmen like Yami who outskills the kijin clan. The Kijin incorporates Taijutsu and kenjutsu. Later on, Asta would meet Ichika who has shown to be more skilled than Lucifero. Obviously Base Ichika outskills Asta but now Asta and Ichika’s skills are stated to be roughly equal at full strength but with Zetten Ichika still outskills, although Asta will probably master Zetten in a chapter or two. So if we factor in pretime skip swordsmen.. DU Asta right now is relative to Ichika > Lucius ~ Lucifero > Yami > Younger Yami > The entire Kijin clan of distinguished swordsmen > Kruger (pretime skip Asta’s first teacher) > Mars (trained under Kruger and his best student) > the rest of Kruger’s students.

Now that we know Asta has skill and experience. Let’s jump into what I usually call “ability based skill” (different from experience based skill; they are the unique abilities born from skill). Asta has assimilated the skills of 5 swordsmen (Yami, Mars, Kruger, Kiato and Licht) into his own rough but effective fighting style. With some of these five swordsmen’s fighting styles Asta can predict moves (Yami), react instinctively (innate+Yami & Kiato), improved his dual swordsmanship (Licht), he can move in ways that can’t be tracked thus making it hard for his opponent to land attacks on him or predict his moves (Kiato), etc.

So if we consider, Garou’s little experience with swordsmen, Asta’s own experience, skill, range, AD (speed, power, skill), abilities (sense manipulation + resistance to precognition, precognition, instinctive reactions, etc.), etc. AT THE VERY LEAST, Garou wouldn’t be able to land attacks on Asta and At best, Asta outskills Garou with swordsmanship. Note: Garou’s experience with Kenjutsu shows that he doesn’t grab his opponent’s sword let alone the skill to somehow grab two sword (Asta’s a dual swordsman) by the fuller to prevent his hand getting cut off. Oh, Asta can sharpen his sword with AM and Asta can prolong his DU to 10 min by condensing his AM to his right arm which makes his attacks stronger too.

So can you see that it’s possible? Luckily this isn’t h2h, otherwise Asta would’ve been slaughtered.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yami who outskills the kijin clan

The whole ******* thing is a mystery
The battle is off-screen
Most probably it wasn't even Yami who killed the clan

 

[azontr]

I bet the response to all of that would just be "Garou Adapts".

 

[Recon1511]

Seems like Garou doesn't have fighting experience against swordsmen. Well, Asta does against Taijutsu, and it is even emphasized in this final arc. So the adaptation works by copying and mastering the skill in a short period of time correct me if I'm wrong. However, this hasn't been done for weapons. So how does Adaptation work against things that he physically doesn't have? like a sword to adapt to copy and master swordsmanship. If this is not how his adaptation works then lmk how it works in detail ig.

I mean copying is a part of his adaptation but not completely necessary, what I mean by it is that Garou will get used to Asta's moves and learn to predict, parry and dodge his slashes better over time not to mention his own AD and RE will make him faster (not to the point of a blitz) facilitating this process

• by reading Garou’s Ki, he can predict his attacks/moves and act accordingly.
• Asta copied Kiato’s swordsmanship into his fighting style, allowing him to throw off his opponents senses and dodge attacks.
• As he did with Kiato, he also assimilated 4 other swordsmen. He uses these skills in addition to his own skill to outskill his opponents. In the final arc, he already learnt Zetten, which takes decades to perform, in one try. Now he’s trying to master it and I don’t even think the day is over yet and he already figured out how to incorporate his Zetten into his fighting style.
• I’m sure you guys know about his RPL. “Surpassing his limits”. He grows fast in battle. But I won’t get in too much on that.

So Garou mainly has to deal with Asta’s precognition then his senses getting thrown off which makes it hard for Garou to land attacks or maybe even a grab without getting his hand sliced off. And just Asta’s swordsmanship skill up till this point in the series and ranged attacks.

There are many instances. Has predicted his opponents moves, teleportations, falling rocks, explosions and attacks etc. He can use it for other things like reading a persons mind and so on.

As for the sense thing. simply put, Asta’s movements can’t be tracked allowing Asta to defend against or dodge attacks easily.

I mean their precog and RPL sounds pretty similar to Garou, that being said Garou only really needs once grace with RASRF to incap Asta here.

Garou's IR allows him to dodge attacks instinctively and its good enough to let him fight while completely asleep so even if his senses are confused, Garou's body should be able to still react on his own and avoid danger

As someone else mentioned already, Garou is more than willing to let himself be stabbed if it means landing a killer blow and he has done so against a dual bladed opponent, grabbing and destroying one of their blades and letting himself be pierced by the other to get an opening to kill them

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The whole ******* thing is a mystery
The battle is off-screen
Most probably it wasn't even Yami who killed the clan

You still don't think Yami killed them? After his father stated he has the potential to be the greatest fighter? And the fact he literally stands right there covered in blood. Unless Ichika was under genjutsu, He killed the clan... it is confirmed, we just don't know why.

Anyway, this doesn't really matter to me lol. Its only a nitpick to the entire point.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

As someone else mentioned already, Garou is more than willing to let himself be stabbed if it means landing a killer blow and he has done so against a dual bladed opponent, grabbing and destroying one of their blades and letting himself be pierced by the other to get an opening to kill them

Its a bad idea if this is how he deals with swordsmen. Asta's demon slayer sword is already large and he can increase the size of his demon slayer. Garou wouldn't want that running through his slim torso. Garou wouldn't want him doing this too. And as for the grabbing part... Considering Asta's AP advantage of ~ Lucius > Complete Lucifero > 1.6x + Piercing/slashing damage... If Garou grabs Asta sword at full swing he gets his hand cut off.

I mean copying is a part of his adaptation but not completely necessary, what I mean by it is that Garou will get used to Asta's moves and learn to predict, parry and dodge his slashes better over time not to mention his own AD and RE will make him faster (not to the point of a blitz) facilitating this process

Well he has a few techniques to adapt to, especially with his inexperience with swordsmanship on or near Asta's level of skill. Asta also has an impressive AD as i said before but it is probably not as impressive as Garou. It's still worth noting it tho because Garou has reached his max AP in this key while Asta has the advantage and he can still get stronger + improve his techniques...

that being said Garou only really needs once grace with RASRF to incap Asta here.

Garou's IR allows him to dodge attacks instinctively and its good enough to let him fight while completely asleep so even if his senses are confused, Garou's body should be able to still react on his own and avoid danger

If we consider Garou's inability to predict Asta's moves, he wouldn't be able to land hits on Asta directly. Asta, however, can predict his moves and react instinctively to avoid them, on top of Asta's extended range with his massive sword, flight, ranged attacks, and swordsmanship skills. I don't see Garou landing a blow on Asta before Asta disembodies Garou.

 

[Lynieryz]

Asta FRA

 

[azontr]

Ngl kinda learning towards Asta based on Arnold's arguments, but I'll wait before making a decision.

 

[Spinoirr]

The goat fra (asta)

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Ain't no way Garou's getting packed by a BC character lmfao.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

It is mainly because OPM's supporters are bad at debates

 

[azontr]

Why instigate

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm cooking here

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Why instigate

We all have those moments where we instigate some shit.

 

[azontr]

that's not a good thing

 

[RandomGuy2345]

that's not a good thing

All humans have negatives about them. Sad, but true.

 

[Maitreya12]

Eh I already gave my arguments as to why Garou wins.

Too advanced combat+ Good regen+ sword deflection with WSRSF+ instant win with just a graze+ too advanced adaptability makes me believe Asta is on the losing side here.