Ayanokouji Full Strength Contextualized

[Buzzflightyear]

I have a very limited knowledge about this verse as I've only watched up till s2. I vividly remember Ayanokoji struggling to damage Albert with his punches and had to target his weak points to damage him, but there is also a feat where he blitzes a FTE character.

Yes. He also shook his hand from the pain he felt punching Albert to contextualize to viewers that he hurt his self more than he did Albert.

Maybe you could scale their AP at similar levels but speed with a big difference?

This is exactly what I said. Ayanokouji having superior reaction time to everyone including WR characters due to 2 statements of having high reactions from Tuskishiro who is a god tier, and Ryuuen who threw orange juice at him. Nanase also has abnormal reactions but I don't think it's nearly as high.

I may be wrong though, feel free to correct me.

You were 100% correct actually

 

[Doggo]

Nothing you said equates to them being equal fighters. Sudo is better at basketball than Ayanokouji by his own words, but no one would argue that he would beat Ayanokouji in a fight.

You guys are trying to couple athleticism with fighting ability and that's not how it works.

Not my point. We are talking about physical stats. Nagumo has equal durability to Manabu due to being repeatedly regarded as his equal. So, Koji one-shotting Nagumo means he can one-shot Manabu, too, which makes the idea of Manabu one-shotting Ayanokoji plain silly.

Being a better fighter does not equate to better stats here. That means higher skill, which has no bearing on what I am trying to say. My point was Nagumo, someone who should be equal to Manabu in physical ability, got one-shotted by a guy who claims Manabu could one-shot him.

You are mixing skill with physical stats here when they are separate. Manabu could be a much better fighter than Nagumo, for all I care, but in terms of physicality, they are equal. The same way Sudo and Ryuen are similar in stats despite Ryuen being the better fighter.

Once again you are trying to use them being compared as student council presidents to equate them as fighters and that is not how fighting works. Manabu is better trained in fighting. That does not equate to how durable Nagumo is, he could be a glass cannon while Manabu is a tank. Assuming they are equals across the board down to their Durability is kinda lazy and clearly for narrative lol

See above. Also, they are referred to as equals as students, whether that be academics, social skills, influence, intelligence, or physical ability. Manabu being a better fighter again does not mean he has higher stats than him. That simply means he is more skilled. Stop equating skill and stats here.

The premise of that scan is to literally show that he used his real strength, something you guys repeatedly state he never does. This thread has switches from "Ayanokouji never tries hard" to "yeah he tires hard but they still are weaker" which was something I never argued.

Yeah, Koji tried, and it ended up with Hosen being unable to do anything about it and actually being very shocked.

You indirectly admitted to saying a full-power Ayanokoji can casually overpower Hosen with an injured hand.

Keep in mind I Literally said he was from the beginning.... Which for the 20th time is still in my OP and you guys keep arguing with me against something you later admit yourselves

What are you even saying here exactly? This contradicts your notion that Albert and Hosen are superior to Ayanokoji in terms of strength when Hosen can't even escape an injured Ayanokoji's grip. Also, your scan does not say he went all out lol, read the text again, specifically this one, which you yourself highlighted:

"I just happened to muster more strength than usual in the heat of the moment."

Mind you, you highlighted this. And it doesn't prove he went all out. Mustering more strength than the norm does not equate to being serious. It just means he tried a little harder than usual. And this is with a injured hand and Hosen quite litterally cannot move at all which means there was a huge gap in power.

 

[Doggo]

I have a very limited knowledge about this verse as I've only watched up till s2. I vividly remember Ayanokoji struggling to damage Albert with his punches and had to target his weak points to damage him, but there is also a feat where he blitzes a FTE character.

Maybe you could scale their AP at similar levels but speed with a big difference?

I may be wrong though, feel free to correct me.

The issue with this notion is that it gets contradicted by later showings in the series. Hosen, someone described as being above Albert, cannot escape Ayanokoji's injured grip. Albert also needed help and an ambush just to beat Hosen. If you buy Albert>Koji, then it creates this issue:

Albert>Ayanokoji>Hosen>Albert

 

[Buzzflightyear]

Not my point. We are talking about physical stats. Nagumo has equal durability to Manabu due to being repeatedly regarded as his equal.

As students and and by their ranking. No one has ever once talked about Nagumos fighting ability nor how durable his body is to just say"nagumo is as durable as manabu". Both are student council presidents. One student cannot say there are above the other, why? Because they both are at the top, so equals. Like what are we even doing man. One of them has never even fought before to just make this assumption lol

So, Koji one-shotting Nagumo means he can one-shot Manabu, too, which makes the idea of Manabu one-shotting Ayanokoji plain silly.

Equating ranking as students in the school to ranking as fighters when one of them never been in a fight for anyone to even know they're equals and the show being mostly about being a student with combat secondary is what's actually silly. Like Nagumo actually never even through a punch. That's such a wild assumption it shouldnt even be argued anymore.

Being a better fighter does not equate to better stats here. That means higher skill, which has no bearing on what I am trying to say.

Better skill is how they determine the best fighters in this world. Even being big and muscular isn't enough. Katsuragi has a better body than 99% of the cast and is one of the worst fighters. And it also should hold bearing because you are falsely comparing physicals stats of characters that have never showcased their stats and using his rank being compared to the previous of his rank as "yeah they are equal in strength and durability" when something that distinct would be stated just like the many other times for other characters.

My point was Nagumo, someone who should be equal to Manabu in physical ability, got one-shotted by a guy who claims Manabu could one-shot him.

Once again, never once stated to be physical equals. Just student council presidents which is the only thing in common they have. We seen Manabu easily dodge attacks from Ryuuen, also get compliments for his combat from Ayanokouji, while Manabu simply was treated like a nuisance.

You are mixing skill with physical stats here when they are separate. Manabu could be a much better fighter than Nagumo, for all I care, but in terms of physicality, they are equal. The same way Sudo and Ryuen are similar in stats despite Ryuen being the better fighter.

Sudo does not have similar stats to Ryuuen. Sudo has an A+ physical ability. Ryuuen has a B. We also don't know who the better fighter is between them all we have to go off is their OAA , and the fight with Housen. Ryuuen used people, Sudo fought by himself. If we take all that into account it's no way to come to the conclusion "Ryuuen is the better fighter" that logically goes against everything I just typed.

See above. Also, they are referred to as equals as students, whether that be academics, social skills, influence, intelligence, or physical ability. Manabu being a better fighter again does not mean he has higher stats than him. That simply means he is more skilled. Stop equating skill and stats here.

That's literally what you're doing lol you just said "being called equals means he's just as durable" I'm literally saying that's not what their being compared equally as. It's their STATUS as student council president. Physical stats is never even mentioned for Nagumo because he is not a fighter lol

Yeah, Koji tried, and it ended up with Hosen being unable to do anything about it and actually being very shocked.

He's almost a foot taller and more muscular. It's no different than when he caught Alberts fist. Just shows relativity, with the white room version being superior if he got his own lifting regime back like he said when talking to Mashima in the weight room.

You indirectly admitted to saying a full-power Ayanokoji can casually overpower Hosen with an injured hand.

Which I always admitted because from page 1 I said his lifting strength was superior. You are literally agreeing with me while arguing the same point I agree to.

"I just happened to muster more strength than usual in the heat of the moment."

Mind you, you highlighted this. And it doesn't prove he went all out. Mustering more strength than the norm does not equate to being serious. It just means he tried a little harder than usual.

When someone has to muster more strength it's usually because what they are exhibiting isn't enough, and more effort is required. You cannot give effort while simultaneously saying you aren't trying. Direct contradiction of words.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Like, can we stop already?

We are at a time where staff should eval on their own based on the arguments, stop commenting, it will just make them not want to eval the CRT

 

[Buzzflightyear]

The issue with this notion is that it gets contradicted by later showings in the series. Hosen, someone described as being above Albert, cannot escape Ayanokoji's injured grip. Albert also needed help and an ambush just to beat Hosen. If you buy Albert>Koji, then it creates this issue:

Now you're flat out lying for narrative. This is blatant rule breaking. Ayanokouji and Ryuuen purposely planned for them to trap Housen and he even used himself as bait to lure Housen to the sport for Albert and Ichizaki to grab him for Ryuuen to beat him down. I'm actually shocked you just said "Albert also needed help" like he was in a 1 on 1 fight and called for help. He never "needed help" Housen even complimented Albert as his equal and asked him why he follows Ryuuen when he is superior in a fight. These are all arguments I debunked in page 1 already.

Albert>Ayanokoji>Hosen>

This is the only logical scale.

1.) Albert the only person who made Ayanokouji feel pain after catching his fist, Housen didn't even make Koji struggle while Albert made him feel pain through this body just from catching the punch. .
2.) Albert is also the only person who had this effect after a Ayanokouji punch meaning. His durability is higher than Koji AP and his AP is superior than Koji durability. A punch you catch should not make you feel pain especially when one of the other ones did. That's not "deception" either, it's literally his inner thoughts reacting to an event occuring like any normal person.

 

[Buzzflightyear]

Like, can we stop already?

We are at a time where staff should eval on their own based on the arguments, stop commenting, it will just make them not want to eval the CRT

I don't see the problem in responding to a misinterpretion of my point. A mod responding doesn't mean we can't type no more, and notice you guys only say this when I respond, but cosign each other regardless of how many replies.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I don't see the problem in responding to a misinterpretion of my point.

Your "point" has already been debunked

A mod responding doesn't mean we can't type no more.

You do you then, if you want mods to lose interest in this CRT, be my guest

 

[Buzzflightyear]

Your "point" has already been debunked

Not when people are still saying they vividly remember exact points I made. I have 4 people in agreement. You have the 2 people that always agree with you and a mod, that's a 50/50 vote split from where I sit, so more discussion is needed.

You do you then, if you want mods to lose interest in this CRT, be my guest

I understand you're here to defend your guys but for me to respond somebody had to says something first. I won't be attacked into silence

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Not when people are still saying they vividly remember exact points I made. I have 4 people in agreement. You have the 2 people that always agree with you and a mod, that's a 50/50 vote split from where I sit, so more discussion is needed.

I understand you're here to defend your guys but for me to respond somebody had to says something first. I won't be attacked into silence

non-staff votes don't count btw

 

[Buzzflightyear]

non-staff votes don't count btw

Doesn't mean their opinions are irrelevant if that's the case none of ours matter

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

I never once said he wasn't the strongest.

That's exactly what you said though? It seems you either forgot or aren't tracking your own arguments because the literal first sentence of your OP is the following:
"I finally fixed the full scaling chain and the statement below will be used as the benchmark statement for my entire premise that the verse is mainly separated by experience, and that Ayanokouji is not physically superior to every single character, he is only more skilled, smarter with better pain tolerance, physical ability and lifting strength."

This is literally my point how are we measuring "fastest characters" when these characters literally have no feats against other fast characters to claim this.

They do have feats, once again WR students are stated to be the peak of human limits, or beyond it. From that statement and the fact that they are consistently shown being faster and superior to other students like Ibuki who has a calc btw, that is the "feat" in question.

The literal only comparison we have is the race and for 99% of it they were EQUALS and Koji said he could go faster, it never said Manabu also can't go faster. Just that Koji can. Thats not full context. All we have is they are equal runners with a possibility of Koji being faster, not knowing if Manabu can duplicate it

We can absolutely say that, because Manabu has no statements saying he was going to increase his speed. If you think otherwise cool, but until you send a scan to support your claim it'll just be your belief and not a fact.

The difference is Amasawa wasnt facing Ayanokouji like Nanase was already facing him. If her defensive instincts kicked in that means she could perceive him moving just couldn't react and stop it in time. That's not perception blitz. A perception blitz is what Amasawa did to Kushida who got hit mid sentence and didn't register it until she hit the ground.

This is not true Kiyo in that instant was not using his instinctive action, I struggle to believe you read the scan because that's quite literally what happens to Ichika, she got hit mid sentence, could not finish her sentence and didn't register she was on the floor until she hit the ground. The only reason there was a response was because of the aforementioned instinctive action (which once again is consistently proven to be faster than their normal reaction speed)

Kushida also doesn't have speed feats to claim that as some OP speed feat.

Nobody is trying to claim this as an "OP speed feat", I don't know why you're so obsessed with that. The point is Kiyo is faster, once again you seem to not be staying on topic with your own OP. He does not need to have "OP anything" to be the top of the verse, he simply needs to be above the other characters, it could be by only 1% and it wouldn't matter.

It isn't. You just said he is blitzing fast characters, but these "fast" characters have no actual feats of their own to say their fast

Do we just not look at the verse page??? They are faster than characters who do this, Kiyo is faster than them, it is that simple. You're logic is extremely circular brother.

In different areas while being inferior in others. Example Ayanokouji saying Amasawa could defeat Housen, Ryuuen and Sudo in a fight, but if you compare their PHYSICAL STRENGTH i.e. lifting strength, then they are superior to her. Which is why we never seen her overpower a male character, she simply can beat them in a fight.

Right...so let me get this straight, you claimed earlier that the strongest is not decided by physicality but now you're saying that because Ichika has lower LS that she can't beat characters she's literally stated to be stronger than in a fight? You're not even staying consistent with your own arguments.

Aura doesn't equate to superior stats across the board. They are beyond because they are better trained, more discipline, and honed.

That's not true, the statement blatantly says that as a result of sensing his aura Horikita and even Ryueen knew that his abilities were beyond other characters. It's shown in Y2 consistently that aura of that caliber is only given off by exceptional people, of which only WR students have been shown to have aura to that degree.

Nothing you said equates to them being equal fighters. Sudo is better at basketball than Ayanokouji by his own words, but no one would argue that he would beat Ayanokouji in a fight.

You guys are trying to couple athleticism with fighting ability and that's not how it works.

Once again you are trying to use them being compared as student council presidents to equate them as fighters and that is not how fighting works. Manabu is better trained in fighting. That does not equate to how durable Nagumo is, he could be a glass cannon while Manabu is a tank. Assuming they are equals across the board down to their Durability is kinda lazy and clearly for narrative lol

You do realize YOU are the one who used these points to support your argument right? This is negative tracking I'm gonna stop replying here, because you seem to be unable of even keeping up with your own arguments and claims. Probably best if the supporters compile a TLDR post and just stop responding like Zetsu mentioned, we already have one staff who disagrees with the CRT. We should only need one more approval, two more at most assuming COTE is a popular verse on the wiki or something.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Doesn't mean their opinions are irrelevant if that's the case none of ours matter

He's right, non staff votes do not count. Our opinions cannot directly sway the course of a CRT, all we can do is indirectly sway it by appealing to the staff. Welcome to VSBW.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I alone can't close the thread. Needs more staff input.

Sorry to ask this again but do you mind asking some other staff to come check out this thread? Given how long and chaotic this has become I would imagine staff would be hesitant to come evaluate this otherwise.