Ayanokouji Full Strength Contextualized

[Buzzflightyear]

I finally fixed the full scaling chain and the statement below will be used as the benchmark statement for my entire premise that the verse is mainly separated by experience, and that Ayanokouji is not physically superior to every single character, he is only more skilled, smarter with better pain tolerance, physical ability and lifting strength. Not Attack Potency and Durability. The only time Ayanokouji has ever mentioning holding back was during a written test. People misconstrued him hiding his "real identity" as him "holding back" in every fight, when he explicitly states when he is going all out. Also another big reason for this problem is people confuse physical capabilities and physical strength.

Here is the statement: Ayanokouji and Tsukishiro agree that there are Non white room people as talented as white room members. Tsukishiro even says there is talent the white room cant even produce

• Examples with scans:Sakayanaki's intellect, Sudo's athletic ability, Albert's durable body, Manabu Horikita academic , fighting + running and Koenji's prodigious talent, plus more are all non white room members and has shown superior or comparable skill to non white room members.

Scaling Chain I recreated the scaling chain with direct statements and feats underneath to further contextualize how the characters are scaled.

Skill level God: Ayanokouji >>

• Ayanokouji is the standard of performance for members of the White Room. A facility whose goal was to produce extra-ordinary outstanding people. There was not a single person in the facility who didn't know his name as he was viewed as the "perfect specimen" who no one could ever pass in performance to the point they viewed him as a myth.
• White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes in their suggested sports, which is in line with what Ayanokouji is talking about as far as physical PERFORMANCE. Not how hard he punches or tanks hits, which as Ayanokouji stated is moreso genetics, than training as you can only train the tolerance of taking the pain, and they are smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is because every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.
• Defeated all of his White Room Instructors by the time he was 9 after defeating all of the 4th gen members and they dropped out
• Ayanokouji being viewed as the peak for every generation and standard for achievement.
• Ayanokouji is viewed as a "monster" when Tsukishiro looked at his info Y2V1 page 3
• Manabu says Ayanokouji is superior in brute force and fighting ability and is the last person he would ever want to fight.
• Ayanokouji cant be reproduced by the White Room after he was originally imperfect in the beginning whether it was Karate, Boxing etc. He would either score unremarkable or ordinary results. He is great at absorbing power and sublimating it into his ability, then after learning the basics would use his extraordinary learning ability to apply it.
• By age 8 the White Room instructors stated Ayanokouji would be outperforming them soon and it was a certainty and stated that he would be a "monster" and that the concept of what he became shouldn't exist.
• Ayanokouji has "uncanny" ability to learn, adapt and apply and is referred to as a "true mutation".
• White Room instructors wanted to discontinue the Beta curriculum because they would only see the number of dropouts and not any progress besides Ayanokouji.
• Ayanokouji purposely hid his real abilities from the White Room instructors so his actual peak is still unknown.
• Instructors stated no matter how harsh the curriculum he showed adaptability sooner or later and is viewed as an anomaly.
• Ayanokouji adapt his strength to match his opponent to always be superior.
• Tsukishiro taunts Ayanokouji and says with his skill level and intelligence that its foolish to even compete with ANHS students because its basically beneath him as he was nurtured to take over the world (Nanase did something similar)
• A 2 vs 1 with professional level agents is not considered "unfair" for Ayanokouji. (2nd version ) Tsukishiro is considered a "jack of all trades" and who has committed murder before
• Full White Room Curriculum for every generation.
• The White room strives to create mass-production of geniuses regardless of genetics or talent.
• Takuya was scared to face Ayanokouji mentally or physically after joining ANHS and preparing for it.
• Nagumo stated Ayanokouji is the only type of person he has trouble dealing with. here.
• Kushida says what Ayanokouji did to Amasawa "wasnt normal".
• Ayanokouji says Amasawa is a 25 or 30 on the scale and he is 100.
• Ayanokouji states its a "Gulf" difference in skill between him and Ryuuen Y1V7 page 175
• Nanase thinks Ayanokouji athleticism is good but he says he didn't really do much, meaning his athletic floor are higher than hers.
• Ayanokouji is not above killing if the fight calls for it. Y1V7 page 172 (Another example)
• Ayanokouji Says he has fought in "disadvantageous" situations since he was a kid and is as unconsciously used to it as a human it breathing.
• Albert says Housen has equal or greater fighting ability than Ayanokouji but Ryuuen tells him OVERALL there is no comparison, then they both agree Ayanokouji is an opponent who is above the standards of weight classes.
• By age 7 had. 144 total fights with 127 wins 19.
• White Room Instructors said they cant find his "upper limit" because of how fast he adaps to tbe Beta curriculum, however they state if ue never got his training he would likely be an ordinary kid. Upper limit explained.
  • Level 5 is the limit of White Room students. Amasawa and Takuya trained on level 4, While Ayanokouji trained in Beta which is higher than 10.
• Ayanokouji will be a politician by age 25.
• Ayanokouji is an excellent swimmer.
• Ayanokouji has a perfect memory recall.
• Ayanokouji has only stated he held back to keep 4th gen students around longer to study them.

High: Tsukishiro > Shiba > Shiro > Takuya > Amasawa > Koenji > Housen > Manabu > Nagumo > Utomiya > Kiryuin > Nanase >

• Ayanokouji says Tsukishiro is one of the strongest people he ever fought.
• Ayanokouji says Tsukishiro hasn't shown all his capabilities.
• States he can't hold back against Tsukishiro or else he could be caught by surprise.
• Kiryuin says Tsukishiro fighting ability is at a "ridiculous" level.
• Ayanokouji says he never searched for the White Room students because they were never a threat from the start.
• Amasawa has better fighting ability than Ryuuen and Sudo but they are physically stronger than her(from book).
• Amasawa can beat Ryuuen.
• Amasawa is considered stronger than most boys in fighting ability.
• Amasawa said with his combat ability he should be able to compete with Ayanokouji.
• Koenji can beat Ryuuen gang.
• Koenji knows Chinese martial arts.
• Koenji was able to capture a wild boar. (anime version)
• Koenji is considered a delinquent.
• Manabu says he has an ability to learn faster than others but Ayanokōuji and Manabu are better.
• Utomiya is confused as a White Room Student, meaning his abilities should be similar. He is viewed as one of the strongest first years.
• Nagumo is the only ANHS student with AS across the board on OAA.
• Ayanokouji said Kiryuin could defend herself well against Shiba.
• Nanase cant go toe to toe with White Room students.
• Albert says Housen has equal or greater fighting ability than Ayanokouji but Ryuuen tells him OVERALL there is no comparison, then they both agree Ayanokouji is an opponent who is above fhe standards of weight classes.
• Housen was considered more exceptional than Sudo because of his combat experience.
• Ryuuen knew his gang would be at a disadvantage against Housen in a fight and Told Ichizaki to back down if he didnt want to die.
• Serious Nanase actually is an A in physical ability.
• Housen would beat Manabu and Albert in a fight.
• Housen is stated he would have an advantage in a fight against Amasawa.
• Housen is confirmed stronger than Nanase.

Mid: Kanzaki > Albert > Sudo > Ryuuen = Kito > Ibuki ≥ Horikita = Kushida

• Housen Albert has more combat power than Ryuuen.
• Ryuuen stated to have far higher fighting ability than Tokito.
• Kanzaki is a black belt in judo and karate and a genius.
• Kitou stated he was confident in his fighting ability against Albert and Ichizaki.
• Suzune says she can't beat Koenji or Sudo with her bare hands.
• Horikita says Ibuki is stronger than equal to her.

Lifting Strength

God: White Room Ayanokouji > Current Ayanokouji = Koenji = Tsukishiro = Shiba = Albert = Housen = Takuya = Sudo (possibly Shiro)

High: > Manabu > Nagumo > Ryuuen = Kito > Ichizaki > Amasawa >

Mid: Kiryuin > Nanase > Ibuki ≥ Horikita = Kushida

• Ayanokouji says his "physical strength" had weakened since he left the white room since he wasn't training.
• Ayanokouji had a stalemate in Tug Of War with Koenji.
• Horikita and Kushida notice now muscular Ayanokouji is and says he is more fit than Sudou. (manga version)
• Purposely scored 60.6 after hearing thats average, and said he someone get up to 100kg with the right training. (manga version) (anime version)
• Ayanokouji talks to Sudo about his real strength and how his stamina is leaving (manga version)
• Ayanokouji catches Ichizaki fist and squeezes it casusing pain Y1V7 page 169 - He collapses in pain 170 - (version)
• Ayanokouji catches Albert fist and feels pain without even taking a direct blow Y1V7 page 169 - (anime version)
• Housen stabs Ayanokouji in the palm and he halts his hand with brute strength Y2V1 pages 299-309. (manga version)
• Housen says Ayanokouji calmly stopped his fist and didnt be in pain being stabbed.
• Nanase stated he didn't budge when she tried to slam Ayanokouji. (manga version)
• Ayanokouji restrained by Albert and Hiyori, mentions how strong Albert is.
• Albert grabs Ichizaki arm and hurts him.
• Albert held Akito hand in place.
• Sudo and Katsuragi cant compare to Albert physique and genetics, and states that foreigners are just made different than Japanese men. Also compares them by using pro baseball players builds.
• Housen lifts Sudo by his collar off the ground even though Sudo is considered someone eith high strength. (manga version)
• Pushed Sudo down and claims he barely touched him.
• Considered more exceptional than Sudo who has athleticism and a honed body.
• Housen has more raw strength than Amasawa.
• Albert and Housen are equals in "pure strength".
• Housen cant free himself from Albert.
• Utomiya makes Housen compliment his strength after he stopped his punch.
• Koenji strength was considered "half baked" or "half effort" after he playfully pulled away from his senior without effort.
• Koenji can bench press 200kg.
• Koenji physical ability is considered "extraordinary".
• Koenji as a student impressed Mashima the teacher with it.
• Mashima can bench press from 80kg to 100kg.
• Amasawa has better fighting ability than Ryuuen and Sudo but they are physically stronger than her(from book).
• Takuya overpowers Amasawa. She couldnt free herself from his grip.
• Ryuuen and Kito has same throwing strength.

Speed (Reaction) God: Ayanokouji

• Tsukishiro says Ayanokouji has abnormal reaction time.
• Ayanokouji dodges projectile orange juice from Ryuuen to prove he has abnormal reactions.

High: Shiro > Takuya > Amasawa > Koenji > Tsukishiro > Shiba > Housen > Manabu > Nagumo > Sudo > Kiryuin > Nanase > Utomiya

• Manabu blocks Ryuuen attack with obscured vision.
• Sudo has high reflexes.

Mid: Ryuuen = Kito > Hashimoto = Ibuki ≥ Horikita > Kushida > Albert > Ichizaki > Akito

• Kito dodges an attack from Utomiya.
• Hashimoto dodges a kick from Ibuki.
• Ibuki away Kito's hand.
• Akito barely dodges Ibuki.

Ayanokouji is the only person with multiple statements about having abnormal reaction time meaning everyone elses reaction time should be relative

Speed (Travel)

God: Ayanokouji ≥ Koenji = Manabu = Albert = Takuya = Amasawa > Tsukishiro > Shiba (possibly Shiro)

• Raced Manabu Horikita with full speed after making a bet with him to go all out, which he then states this being the first time he ran seriously in his life, and he tied with Manabu until someone fell in his lane but said he could go faster even though someone fell in his lane making him lose the race. (2nd version)(anime version)
• Albert is an extremely fast runner. But he lacks stamina.
• Basically punched Nagumo before he could perceive it and only felt the pain afterwards.
• Koenji runs so fast he could put sprinters to shame.
• Koenji runs so fast his legs are practically a blur.
• Koenji Dodged 3 athletic seniors who attempted to grab him in 1 stride.
• Housen punches were too fast for Sudo to get on the offensive.

High: Serious Nanase > Housen > Nagumo > Utomiya > Kiryuin > Sudo

• Ayanokouji was nearly blitzed by Nanase after she switched personalities and had to use what he calls "emergency evasive action" which means he was being serious.
• Housen is considered quick on his feet despite his size.

Mid: Ryuuen = Kito > Hashimoto > Ibuki ≥ Horikita > Kushida > Ichizaki

Attack Potency God: Tsukishiro = Shiba > Albert > Ayanokouji = Koenji = Manabu = Housen (unknown: Takuya, likely atleast ANHS Ayanokouji)

• Ayanokouji's analysis of Shiba punch made him think he had comparable AP to Shiba, then corrected himself and said Shiba hits harder. , (2nd version) , (3rd version book)
• Albert hit Ayanokouji and he said damage would accumulate after letting it happen to gauge his striking power, which means Albert has higher AP and Durability than Ayanokouji, but lost due to not having the experience.
• Housen sends Sudo flying. (manga version)
• Albert said Housen has the same AP as Ayanokouji after catching his fist and remembering the fight with ayanokouji.
• Ayanokouji punched Albert in the abdomen with his full strength stating he couldn't hold back not knowing the full extent of his abilites, and said he only dealt "shallow" damage. (Did the same thing to Tsukishiro)
• Ayanokouji says he cant break open the door completely but can "possibly" make a hole. (Since Koji is now wall level this is just more justification) Y1V4.5 page 37
• Ayanokouji describes the punch he gave Ryuuen as a vicious right. Y1V7 page 176
• Ayanokouji Put all his strength into punch and Tsukishiro calls it "absolutely magnificent".
• Ayanokouji punch would KO most but not Ryuuen. Y1V7 page 176
• Stated he could use all his strength to try to punch out everyone in the bathhouse to escape which included Koenji, Ryuuen, Ichizaki, Albert, Miyake and others.
• States he could "seriously injure" Nanase if he struck back unwisely.
• States his first strike would knock her out. (2nd version). Does it again.Says the same will happen to his next strikes.3rd time.
• Makes Tsukishiro face tear up from his jabs.
• Ayanokouji temporarily knocks out Tsukishiro.
• Ayanokouji dodges an attack and grab from Manabu Horikita, but stated his kick could one shot him. Y1V6 page 194 (Manga version) (anime version)

High: 9yo WR Ayanokouji with and without weapons = Shiro > Amasawa > Utomiya > Kiryuin > Nanase > Sudo > Ryuuen = Kito

• White Room Koji: When fighting the Yakuza in the White Room he stated he had to attack their weak points, even while wielding the baton because be knew he could barely hurt them.
• Ayanokouji views adults such as his white room instructions as superior in "size, strength and skill until he was 9 years old where the upped his training even more to fighting trained gangsters that are willing to kill children who have even bigger "muscular physiques". He even states he'd have no chance of winning a "head on" fight with them, which is why weapons were included, regardless if Koji didn't "need" them and This validates my point that he just like when he fought Albert, his punches would do little damage stated he has to attack the weak points due to their physique, him "breaking the skull" of one of them came after he was down and defenseless.
• Ayanokouji stated the blow he received from Ryuen was "heavy", but suppressed the pain.
• Ryuuen sends Hashimoto flying with a kick.
• Ayanokouji stated Ibuki could give him a concussion with a roundhouse kick.
• Said Horikita with a bottle stuck on her hand could kill him due to her athletic assessment. (2nd version)Y1V4.5 page 121
• Assessed that Nanase karate attacks had enough power to knock out adult men, which would include himself since he is a teen and has similar durability to other teens in the verse.
• Ayanokouji Coughed after being hit by Horikita and said he didn't expect a woman to hit that hard. Y1V6 page 62
• Ayanokouji takes a knee to the face and feels pain throughout his entire body after staggering back and tells Ryuuen he doesn't feel fear, just pain. Y1V7 page 174
• Ayanokouji Avoids Ryuuens attacks that he thinks could cause himself "critical injuries". Y1V7 page 175 -
• Ayanokouji says Nanase has AP to knock out grown men. She makes him take evasive action from how strong he notices her attacks became after she switched personalities. (2nd version.
• Ibuki dents an elevator wall with a kick.
• Sudo punches Hirata to the ground in anger. (manga version)
• Ryuuen sends Hashimoto flying with a kick.
• Mashima hit to Ayanokouji's back was considered powerful even though he didn't try to.

Mid: Hashimoto > Ibuki > Ichizaki > Hirata > Horikita > Kushida

Durability: Albert >> Housen > Koenji = Ayanokouji > Tsukishiro > Shiba > Takuya > Manabu

• Ayanokouji stated that even using pressure points wouldn't always work on Albert due to his superior genetics.
• Stated to be blessed with a remarkable body (Statements that have only been stated about Albert meaning his durability stands out the most)
• Ayanokouji punched Albert in the abdomen with his full strength stating he couldn't hold back not knowing the full extent of his abilites, and said he only dealt "shallow" damage. (Did the same thing to Tsukishiro)
• Was hit by Albert and said damage would accumulate after letting it happen to gauge his striking power, which means Albert has higher AP and Durability than Ayanokouji, but lost due to not having the experience.(2nd version) Y1V7 page 170 -Ayanokouji stated Albert was swinging with all his might. Y1V7 page 170

High: Ryuuen > Sudo > Kito > Utomiya > Ichizaki > Amasawa > Kiryuin

• • Ryuuen sends Hashimoto flying with a kick.
• Ayanokouji stated the blow he received from Ryuen was "heavy", but suppressed the pain.
• Assessed that Nanase karate attacks had enough power to knock out adult men, which would include himself since he is a teen and has similar durability to other teens in the verse.
• Horikita stabs Ayanokouji with her compass to wake him up as he's dozing off in class and he accidentally lets out a cry of pain, and then rubs the pain. Y1V6 page 153
• Ayanokouji Coughed after being hit by Horikita and said he didn't expect a woman to hit that hard. Y1V6 page 62
• Ayanokouji kicks ryuen in the gut and is surprised how well he tanked it and even compliments him for it. Y1V7 page 173
• Ayanokouji stated the blow he gave from Ryuen was "heavy", but Ryuuen showed no signs of "kneeling over".
• Ayanokouji would KO most but not Ryuuen. Y1V7 page 176
• Sudo tanks a tackle from Housen.

Mid: Nagumo > Nanase > Hashimoto > Ibuki > Horikita > Kushida

• Horikita is slapped by Housen. (manga version)

As you can see there is a consistent theme with the verse as nobody besides Albert has statements that would put their durability above every other character due to his superior genetics being half black. Which is something he was likely taught when learning about USA.

Performance Stamina/Ability + Endurance:

God: WR Ayanokouji > Current Ayanokouji >> Takuya > Amasawa > Koenji

• White room students built peak human levels of pain tolerance from the repeated slamming to build endurance.
• Many people believe from the statement Ayanokouji says his physical ability is deteriorating at ANHS since he cant train like in the White Room, but that's not the context. Ayanokouji is talking about his deteriorating lifting strength and stamina from the intense workouts in the white room, it has nothing to do with having superior AP or durability as I will further explain as you scroll further. White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes in their suggested sports, which is in line with what Ayanokouji is talking about as far as physical PERFORMANCE. Not how hard he punches or tanks hits, which as Ayanokouji stated is moreso genetics, than training as you can only train the tolerance of taking the pain, and they are smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.
• Took Ayanokouji multiple days to recover his performance stamina.
• Ayanokouji breaks out into a cold sweat for the first time in years after having to fight Tsukishiro and Shiba seriously.
• Tsukishiro notices Ayanokouji is tired and smugly says he should be "reaching his limit" to which Ayanokouji calls him difficult to deal with because of how well he reads him. (2nd version)
• Albert and Ichizaki has more stamina than the average student because they dont smoke even though they're delinquents. But Albert's stamina is still considered only above average.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Ayanokouji who is considered the peak of the verse has stated he can be one shot by characters he would defeat in a fight. He has also dealt small damage to characters with his punches who dealt far more damage back when they returned punches back. This is because he is not physically superior to characters, he is just a better, more experienced fighter than them.

Examples:

1.) He easily dodges an attack and grab from Manabu Horikita, but stated his kick could one shot him.
(Manabu is a 5th dan in karate and 4th dan in judo, which would make him ima high tier, this coupled with the fact Ayanokouji said he could one shot him).
2.) Punched Albert in the abdomen with his full strength stating he couldn't hold back not knowing the full extent of his abilites, and said he only dealt "shallow" damage.
(He didn't want to underestimate Albert not knowing the "floor" of his abilities so he went all out and still dealt little damage)

• Was hit by Albert and said damage would accumulate after letting it happen to gauge his striking power, which means Albert has higher AP and Durability than Ayanokouji, but lost due to not having the experience.

(Albert was hit multiple times by Ayanokouji, while Ayanokouji stated he would only tank one of Alberts)

Albert scaling higher is also false when characters like Hosen who are stronger than him and Manabu was compared to have the same strenght as a weakened Ichika who was on the verge of losing consciousness and in a state where she normally wouldn't be able to move

And Takuya capable of no diffing her in everything to the point it made her extremely cautious of him to the point she couldn't even blink because he could attack her in that split moment when she is at her peak condition

Ayanokouji is easily superior than Takuya as well due to him doing the level 10 which is superhuman level and Takuya and Ichika doing the level 4 which is 1-2 levels below the peak human

3.) Stated that pressure points wouldn't always work on Albert due to his superior genetics.

• He admits here that he is inferior physically to Albert who never trained but worked out his body get muscular and build endurance, This means depending on how inferior he is physically, even attacking weak points won't work.

I explained above why that is not true

4.) Stated the blow he received from Ryuen was "heavy", but suppressed the pain.
(Ryuuen is a self trained fighter, so he would be considered mid tier as he doesn't have the training someone like Manabu has, yet he was able to hit Ayanokouji hard enough he registered it as "heavy" meaning it likely hurt, he just suppressed the pain of it due to his endurance training.

The scan is on Koji's perspective.. the person who recieved the kick was Ryuen

5.) Instantly knew Shiba had the same striking power after dodging a punch from him, and said Shiba can one shot him.
(Directly states Shiba is equal to him in AP and that his own striking power can one shot himself)

Ayanokouji seconds later says this lol

6.) Stated Ibuki and Horikita were equals physically without ever seeing them fight.
(this is further validated by his statements about both of them at different points in the story that they both can heavily damage him if they struck his head due to their athleticism)

• Stated Ibuki could give him a concussion with a roundhouse kick
• Said Horikita with a bottle stuck on her hand could kill him due to her athletic assessment.

It's accepted that Ayanokouji had a fake persona to decieve not only the viewers but the people around him by imitating an "average student" due to him wanting to live a normal life, Ayanokouji during this period is an unreliable narrator

7.) Had a stalemate in Tug Of War with Koenji.
(Koenji is not even a white room student and is lazy and he is narratively equals with Ayanokouji)

In the same 2 scans you showed here, not only did you contradict yourself saying Ayanokouji is weaker than Albert (Ayanokouji stated that Kouenji is superior than Albert)

But also in the same scan (the 2nd one) we see Koji saying that he could've won if he used his strenght into a battle of attrition and waited for Kouenji to make a mistake

8.) Was nearly blitzed by Nanase after she switched personalities and had to use what he calls "emergency evasive action" which means he was being serious.
(Ayanokouji was watching her the entire time to even notice her personality switch but was still nearly blitzed by her and got serious)

No, he was clearly caught off guard, Nanase had lost her will to fight and then changed into her Boku mode which double her speed, he wasn't expecting a sudden increase in speed

• This was after he assessed her karate attacks had enough power to knock out adult men, which would include himself since he is a teen and has similar durability to other teens in the verse, not including Ayanokoujis Stamina and Endurance, strictly physical Durability.

This is also proven false above considering Koji scales above Albert and Kouenji

Not to mention Nanase scales to 4.6 KJ AP while Koji is 49,3 KJ in durability which would make no sense that she would've made dmg to him

(This would also make her a high tier since her experiences are lower but similar to Manabu)

9.) Raced Manabu Horikita with full speed after making a bet with him to go all out, which he then states this being the first time he ran seriously in his life, and he tied with Manabu until someone fell in his lane making him lose the race.
(Directly states he is going all out and was still equals with a non White Room student)


"Ayanokouji "Hidden Strength"

Many people believe from this statement that Ayanokouji is weaker at ANHS than he is in the White Room, but that's physically impossible genetically. Ayanokouji is talking about his deteriorating stamina from the intense workouts from the white room, it has nothing to do with having superior AP or durability. White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes, and smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is because every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.

The slight difference between characters that can be argued would be their lifting strength as it was explicitly stated that Ayanokouji didn't want to reveal it. He was capable of catching Albert's fist, although he still took damage, crushed Ichizaki's fist with his grip, could gauge his own score on the grip strength test to 100kg by force, and has stated this is the strength he didn't want to reveal it when he was stuck in an elevator.

No, Ayanokouji has 2 statements that his overall stats were decreasing over time due to the intensity of training not being as a harsh as the WR

Attack Potency/Durability
This is where the scaling chain is mostly confused as many people believe Ayanokouji outscales characters AP and Durability because he is "holding back"(which I debunked above). The only character who has statements which place him above all characters in terms of durability is Albert due to Ayanokouji himself states has genetics that no pure Japanese person has, and has trained and was demonstrated and described in detail during the fight, Ayanokouji did not defeat Albert with brute strength, used weak points specifically because of his durable body, which he still insists wont always work.

I proved on why this is not true

White Room Key vs ANHS Key

Ayanokouji ANHS key is his strongest key as it was never stated he gets weaker after leaving the White Room.

• When fighting the Yakuza in the White Room he stated he had to attack their weak points, even while wielding the baton because be knew he couldnt hurt them, if he was superior, he wouldnt need to attack weak points since we already know why he attacks weak points, as he stated it against Albert. ANHS Ayanokouji would not need to attack the weak points of the same enemies to dispatch them.

Their were physically stronger than Koji due to Koji being a literal 9 year old, the weapon part is irrelevant when Koji himself said he didn't need it but was forced too, Also the 6 fighters were stronger than the instructors who can pretty much no diff all of ANHS which Koji had no trouble in dispatching as a 9 year old

Reaction Time
This aspect is Ayanokouji's next best attribute besides his intellect, and stamina. Ayanokouji has on multiple times been stated to have abnormal reaction time above humans. He can react to attacks he cant see to the point he instinctively reacts which speaks to his bodies muscle memory from the many combat situations he trained for.

He already has higher reaction speed due to IA so this is eh

Stamina
Another notable aspect that separates Ayanokouji is his stamina and endurance, which is far higher than his durability. Repeatedly tanking Judo slams to the point he he suppresses almost any pain he feels. This was best shown when he suppressed the pain of being stabbed through the hand, or being repeatedly attacked by Ryuuen but not reacting to the barrage, however he still has limits which he mentions anytime he is faced with a task he knows he cant accomplish head on, and will use different approaches, such as reading attacks and avoiding those he view as heavy strikers.

Already added idk why repeat it

 

[UnstoppableObject]

Not to mention Nanase scales to 4.6 KJ AP while Koji is 49,3 KJ in durability which would make no sense that she would've made dmg to him

I know I keep bothering you with this, but the 49.3 kJ is literally unusable.

I literally tried to roughly recalculate it onto what attack he'd be able to withstand and it's like 11 kilojoules, so she would be able to damage him to some extent.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I know I keep bothering you with this, but the 49.3 kJ is literally unusable.

I literally tried to roughly recalculate it onto what attack he'd be able to withstand and it's like 11 kilojoules, so she would be able to damage him to some extent.

The wiki does not work the way you are describing, i am pretty sure someone else has told you this already

I would appreciate if you could stop insisting with this

 

[UnstoppableObject]

The wiki does not work the way you are describing, i am pretty sure someone else has told you this already

Even if so, you can't just say this:

Not to mention Nanase scales to 4.6 KJ AP while Koji is 49,3 KJ in durability which would make no sense that she would've made dmg to him

That's completely wrong and I already explained it. You can literally have a character that survives falling with 100 kilojoules. Even if the character survives such fall, they wouldn't even be able to survive a punch with that energy.

I'm not trying to flood this with random nonsense, but there's just no way to justify your claim in this case.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Even if so, you can't just say this:


That's completely wrong and I already explained it. You can literally have a character that survives falling with 100 kilojoules. Even if the character survives such fall, they wouldn't even be able to survive a punch with that energy.

I'm not trying to flood this with random nonsense, but there's just no way to justify your claim in this case.

This is my last reply to you regarding this topic, the wiki does not work like this

If you survive a 100 KJ fall fully, you are 100 KJ in durability, theres no such thing as you being able to hurt someone with a 5 KJ punch despite them having 100 KJ

 

[UnstoppableObject]

This is my last reply to you regarding this topic, the wiki does not work like this

If you survive a 100 KJ fall fully, you are 100 KJ in durability, theres no such thing as you being able to hurt someone with a 5 KJ punch despite them having 100 KJ

Theres... literally no way you'd say that seriously unless you're trying to "wank" that character. Sorry that I'm jumping to conclusions like this, but the durability feat needs to be contextualized. You shouldn't just take it randomly.

It always matters how well the character handles the attack and over what area. It's literally insanely inaccurate to just take the total energy value. A random human can literally be scaled to street level durability in thousands of joules and therefore could withstand a thousand joule punch WITH the same struggle, according to your logic.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

Firstly, I don’t think there are any real proposed changes in this CRT, just changed justifications. I’m not really sure what this is trying to achieve but I’ll respond anyway. There is a lot wrong with this, so I am going to fully disagree from the start. This shows a severe lack of understanding of the verse and the scaling behind it. Zetsu has already commented on much of this so I’ll just focus on some other areas he didn’t cover as in depth.

However based on the below I would request that this thread is closed and that you stop trying to push these changes as they are being repeatedly proven to be false in the context of the verse.

Ayanokouji who is considered the peak of the verse has stated he can be one shot by characters he would defeat in a fight. He has also dealt small damage to characters with his punches who dealt far more damage back when they returned punches back. This is because he is not physically superior to characters, he is just a better, more experienced fighter than them.

This is wrong and a stark mischaracterization of Ayanokouji. It’s been shown many times over that he is an unreliable narrator and lies to both other characters and the reader about his true skills, thoughts, and intentions. This is especially prevalent in the early volumes of Year 1.

I’m going to start with the idea that Ayanokouji’s ANHS key is stronger than his WR key.

Many people believe from this statement that Ayanokouji is weaker at ANHS than he is in the White Room, but that's physically impossible genetically. Ayanokouji is talking about his deteriorating stamina from the intense workouts from the white room, it has nothing to do with having superior AP or durability. White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes, and smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is because every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.

White Room Key vs ANHS Key

Ayanokouji ANHS key is his strongest key as it was never stated he gets weaker after leaving the White Room.

Not just the scan you are pointing to, but this one which you ignored makes it crystal clear that his WR key is physically superior. This is not a contested point; you are just wrong.

When fighting the Yakuza in the White Room he stated he had to attack their weak points, even while wielding the baton because be knew he couldnt hurt them, if he was superior, he wouldnt need to attack weak points since we already know why he attacks weak points, as he stated it against Albert. ANHS Ayanokouji would not need to attack the weak points of the same enemies to dispatch them.

For this you are again omitting information either because it disproves your argument or because you are not using proper scans, but Ayanokouji declined to use the baton. He only did because he was forced to. Also to clarify this is Ayanokouji at 9 years old, not at the peak of his WR key.

As for the idea that his fighting ability is purely skill based and he isn’t physically above everyone else, I’ll break down your points one at a time.

He easily dodges an attack and grab from Manabu Horikita, but stated his kick could one shot him.

The first thing to note was this was very obviously Ayanokouji being an unreliable narrator here. With even just a little context the idea that Manabu could hurt him becomes laughable. While currently 15, at age 7 he was fighting adult instructors who were noted to be world class talents. Not only would they be older and more experienced than Manabu who is 17 at this point, but they were at least as skilled if not more. So now with 8 more years of experience after this and the context of Volume 0 this is clearly bluster.

2.) Punched Albert in the abdomen with his full strength stating he couldn't hold back not knowing the full extent of his abilites, and said he only dealt "shallow" damage.
(He didn't want to underestimate Albert not knowing the "floor" of his abilities so he went all out and still dealt little damage)

• Was hit by Albert and said damage would accumulate after letting it happen to gauge his striking power, which means Albert has higher AP and Durability than Ayanokouji, but lost due to not having the experience.

Not sure what this is trying to prove but you are now using misinformation to make your claims. The idea that if Ayanokouji just let Albert keep hitting him and took damage that means Albert has higher AP is laughable. What actually happened was restraining Ishizaki with one hand he blocked Albert’s full-strength punch with his left (non-dominant) hand. So, Albert’s full power was blocked while Ayanokouji was already using one hand to incapacitate Ishizaki, this is evidence that his strength is much higher than Albert at this point.

(Albert was hit multiple times by Ayanokouji, while Ayanokouji stated he would only tank one of Alberts)

This is also false since Ayanokouji dispatched Albert with a single strike to the throat, and he didn’t say he could only tank one of Albert’s punches. If we look at the Official Translations, he says it’s not smart to take hits from someone whose abilities are unknown.

3.) Stated that pressure points wouldn't always work on Albert due to his superior genetics.

Then he proceeded to immediately use a pressure point to disable Albert in one hit….

4.) Stated the blow he received from Ryuen was "heavy", but suppressed the pain.

This is wrong. Again, this looks like a result of you trying to make a case with bad TLs. Looking at the OTL we see that this scene is Ayanokouji kicking Ryuuen (not taking a hit) and noting that he seems weaker physically than Albert. As I already mentioned, Koji is far stronger than Albert, so this breaks your argument that Ryuuen is relative to Koji in pure strength.

5.) Instantly knew Shiba had the same striking power after dodging a punch from him, and said Shiba can one shot him.
(Directly states Shiba is equal to him in AP and that his own striking power can one shot himself)

This is the first time you are almost right. Shiba’s AP is relative to Koji’s at this point; however we need to note that this is Y2V4 which is about 2 years removed from Koji being in the WR. As such this is Koji far below his peak strength.

6.) Stated Ibuki and Horikita were equals physically without ever seeing them fight.
(this is further validated by his statements about both of them at different points in the story that they both can heavily damage him if they struck his head due to their athleticism)

• Stated Ibuki could give him a concussion with a roundhouse kick
• Said Horikita with a bottle stuck on her hand could kill him due to her athletic assessment.

I mean if you want the result of this Horikita and Ibuki at full strength fought a 2v1 against Koji in Y2V11 and to make the fight fair he imposed conditions on himself. He drew a circle on the ground he couldn’t leave and fought with his right hand behind his back. Even like this the pair of them couldn’t even make him struggle, let alone beat him.


Even further if we look at an accurate scaling chain, according to Koji’s statements Horikita and Ibuki combine to be a little lower than Ichika, and Ayanokouji No Diffed Ichika.

7.) Had a stalemate in Tug Of War with Koenji.
(Koenji is not even a white room student and is lazy and he is narratively equals with Ayanokouji)

This was now about 2.5 years removed from his WR peak, plus as Zetsu mentioned Koji said he could have won by making it a battle of attrition even in his weakened state.

8.) Was nearly blitzed by Nanase after she switched personalities and had to use what he calls "emergency evasive action" which means he was being serious.
(Ayanokouji was watching her the entire time to even notice her personality switch but was still nearly blitzed by her and got serious)

Nearly blitzed huh? You do realize he was causally dodging all her attacks while essentially toying with her during this fight. He was blitzing her in her Boku mode and you think Koji got nearly blitzed lol.

9.) Raced Manabu Horikita with full speed after making a bet with him to go all out, which he then states this being the first time he ran seriously in his life, and he tied with Manabu until someone fell in his lane making him lose the race.
(Directly states he is going all out and was still equals with a non White Room student)

Again, you are omitting information that disproves you. Koji is clearly not running at full speed here despite what he said because just a few lines later he decides to pick up the pace and go even faster.

Full Speed

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Theres... literally no way you'd say that seriously unless you're trying to "wank" that character. Sorry that I'm jumping to conclusions like this, but the durability feat needs to be contextualized. You shouldn't just take it randomly.

Since the calculation team has already approved this then it's done. As Zetsu said the wiki doesn't scale durability the way you are implying. The feat is valid for the use of scaling and that's just the end of it.

 

[Huesito88]

Theres... literally no way you'd say that seriously unless you're trying to "wank" that character.

It's according to the wiki's logic, if you have a problem change it. You are just going to be ignored otherwise.

 

[UnstoppableObject]

Since the calculation team has already approved this then it's done. As Zetsu said the wiki doesn't scale durability the way you are implying. The feat is valid for the use of scaling and that's just the end of it.

Doesn't the calculation team only check whether the calculation itself is correct rather than the application of it? Because that's a huge difference.

 

[Zefra3011]

Theres... literally no way you'd say that seriously unless you're trying to "wank" that character. Sorry that I'm jumping to conclusions like this, but the durability feat needs to be contextualized. You shouldn't just take it randomly.

Make a Staff Discussion or something for that. No one has ever scaled durability like this, likely due to general inconsistencies. We don't even consider piercing damage to be effective because, in fiction, it's hardly portrayed that way. For similar reasons, we don't consider the muscle mass used for LS feats; we should, but for simplicity's sake, we don't.

But if you really wanna change that, I suggest talking to an admin and making a thread, because I'm sure you can find this "mistake" in most verses.

 

[UnstoppableObject]

Make a Staff Discussion or something for that. No one has ever scaled durability like this, likely due to general inconsistencies. We don't even consider piercing damage to be effective because, in fiction, it's hardly portrayed that way. For similar reasons, we don't consider the muscle mass used for LS feats; we should, but for simplicity's sake, we don't.

But if you really wanna change that, I suggest talking to an admin and making a thread, because I'm sure you can find this "mistake" in most verses.

Isn't it literally specified here? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Durability

"There are many possible reasons why a character's attacks may work against another character, even if that character has a higher level of durability. Context needs to be examined to determine how a character inflicts harm without solely looking at who they can harm."
"
The issue of "cutting" and "piercing" attacks comes up as a result of the difference in surface area between the character being attacked and object being used in attacking them. Even in real-life, a person can do a lot more damage to somebody else with a sword than they can with their bare hands.

For example, if a character withstands an explosion as their primary durability justification than the energy of the explosion that they tanked has hit them over a large surface area of their body. However if all of that energy were focused in an extremely narrow area of effect such as the width of a blade or the point of a needle - then the energy would more than likely pass through the character's body much easier. Even a weaker attack than the aforementioned explosion could do more visible damage by being concentrated."

 

[Zefra3011]

Isn't it literally specified here? https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Durability

"There are many possible reasons why a character's attacks may work against another character, even if that character has a higher level of durability. Context needs to be examined to determine how a character inflicts harm without solely looking at who they can harm."
"
The issue of "cutting" and "piercing" attacks comes up as a result of the difference in surface area between the character being attacked and object being used in attacking them. Even in real-life, a person can do a lot more damage to somebody else with a sword than they can with their bare hands.

For example, if a character withstands an explosion as their primary durability justification than the energy of the explosion that they tanked has hit them over a large surface area of their body. However if all of that energy were focused in an extremely narrow area of effect such as the width of a blade or the point of a needle - then the energy would more than likely pass through the character's body much easier. Even a weaker attack than the aforementioned explosion could do more visible damage by being concentrated."

It talks about piercing damage and later explosions. Yes, I said we don't consider piercing damage to be that effective normally. With context, a character can go up several tiers with piercing damage, pressure points, and the like... Keyword: context. If it's just "this guy has a sword" without feats, it's a no-no. Zoro doesn't really have higher tiers because he uses swords, does he? Generally, we don't overcomplicate things.

 

[UnstoppableObject]

It talks about piercing damage and later explosions. Yes, I said we don't consider piercing damage to be that effective normally. With context, a character can go up several tiers with piercing damage, pressure points, and the like... Keyword: context. If it's just "this guy has a sword" without feats, it's a no-no. Zoro doesn't really have higher tiers because he uses swords, does he? Generally, we don't overcomplicate things.

The problem is this:

"Even a weaker attack than the aforementioned explosion could do more visible damage by being concentrated."

That applies to anything regardless of whether it's the knuckles of a fist vs sword, or a large 2x3 meters block vs a fist delivering the energy.
Also besides that there's literally no reason for you to abuse this, unless you just want to highball the character (not trying to be rude, just explaining).

 

[Zefra3011]

The problem is this:

"Even a weaker attack than the aforementioned explosion could do more visible damage by being concentrated."

That applies to anything regardless of whether it's the knuckles of a fist vs sword, or a large 2x3 meters block vs a fist delivering the energy.
Also besides that there's literally no reason for you to abuse this, unless you just want to highball the character (not trying to be rude, just explaining).

It's not that we don't account for the area, it's that we don't ALWAYS account for it, and when we do, it's context-based. And it's not me wanting to abuse it, it's that we NEVER account for it for this context.

You can check all the 38,777 wiki's pages. There isn't a single profile that accounts for it the way you describe it. It's physically correct, yes, just not powerscaling correct (at least by what seem to be our standards).

 

[UnstoppableObject]

It's not that we don't account for the area, it's that we don't ALWAYS account for it, and when we do, it's context-based. And it's not me wanting to abuse it, it's that we NEVER account for it for this context.

You can check all the 38,777 wiki's pages. There isn't a single profile that accounts for it the way you describe it. It's physically correct, yes, just not powerscaling correct (at least by what seem to be our standards).

I'm not trying to start some sort of argument, but it doesn't mean that it's correct just because lots of people do this. I wouldn't bring it out here, if it wasn't that important. I was respoonding to the 4.6 vs 49.3 kilojoule stuff, because the way the energy is handled in those two values is simply way too different to just compare them as they are.

One is AP and the other is durability based on falling from a high place. Those are just not comparable 1:1

It's not that we don't account for the area, it's that we don't ALWAYS account for it, and when we do, it's context-based. And it's not me wanting to abuse it, it's that we NEVER account for it for this context.

This is the one scenario where you should account for it.

Sorry for being that annoying, but I wouldn't insist on it, if it didn't change the conclusion that much. I tried to somewhat calculate it and it really does matter in this case.


(btw I don't know, how exactly the calculation evaluations work, but they only check whether the calculation itself is correct rather than the use of it, unless I'm mistaken)

 

[Zefra3011]

I'm not trying to start some sort of argument, but it doesn't mean that it's correct just because lots of people do this. I wouldn't bring it out here, if it wasn't that important.

I know, but if you really want to do it, I wouldn't suggest it; this is not the way. It would change dozens of calcs and scaling across the wiki; it's something to talk with admins. I have my doubts it will be accepted, but still, that would hypothetically be the way.

 

[Buzzflightyear]

I went and found multiple versions of scans to prove that there is no errors and that Ayanokōuji doesn't outscale the verse physically, and that its only experience involved with a bit of abnornal lifting strength.

White Room Koji

• Ayanokouji and Tsukishiro agree that there are Non white room people as talented as white room members. Tsukishiro even says there is talent the white room cant even produce.
  • Examples with scans: Sakayanaki's intellect, Sudo's athletic ability, Albert's durable body, Manabu Horikita academic , fighting + running and Koenji's prodigious talent, plus more are all non white room members and has shown superior or comparable skill to non white room members.

• The repeated slamming was to build endurance and pain tolerance, it did not make the characters "more durable" than the rest of the verse.
• Ayanokouji views adults such as his white room instructions as superior in "size, strength and skill until he was 9 years old where the upped his training even more to fighting trained gangsters that are willing to kill children who have even bigger "muscular physiques". He even states he'd have no chance of winning a "head on" fight with them, which is why weapons were included, regardless if Koji didn't "need" them and This validates my point that he just like when he fought Albert, his punches would do little damage stated he has to attack the weak points due to their physique, him "breaking the skull" of one of them came after he was down and defenseless, which at that point can happen if anyone strikes him, even a normal kid with a baton.
• Many people believe from the statement Ayanokouji says he is weaker at ANHS than he is in the White Room, but that's not the context. Ayanokouji is talking about his deteriorating lifting strength and stamina from the intense workouts in the white room, it has nothing to do with having superior AP or durability as I will further explain as you scroll further. White Room students were trained to be superior to Olympic athletes in their suggested sports, which is in line with what Ayanokouji is talking about as far as physical PERFORMANCE. Not how hard he punches or tanks hits, which as Ayanokouji stated is moreso genetics, than training as you can only train the tolerance of taking the pain, and they are smarter than the smartest students at Japanese universities. This is because every teacher was hand picked for not being ordinary with their teachings.

ANHS Koji

• Ayanokouji says he cant break open the door completely but can "possibly" make a hole. (Since Koji is now wall level this is just more justification) Y1V4.5 page 37 -
• Says he raced Manabu and ran seriously for the first time in his life, and tied with him.
• Coughed after being hit by Horikita and said he didn't expect a woman to hit that hard. Y1V6 page 62
• Horikita stabs Ayanokouji with her compass to wake him up as he's dozing off in class and he accidentally lets out a cry of pain, and then rubs the pain Y1V6 page 153
• Ayanokouji himself said Manabu can one shot him Y1V6 page 194
• Ayanokouji intentionally lets Albert hit him, and says he cant take more hits from him then decides to dodge. Then says he punched with full power and dealt shallow damage Y1V7 page 170 - Ayanokouji stated Albert was swinging with all his might Y1V7 page 170
• Kicks ryuen in the gut and is surprised how well he tanked it and even compliments him for it Y1V7 page 173 -
• Takes a knee to the face and feels pain throughout his entire body after staggering back and tells Ryuuen he doesn't feel fear, just pain Y1V7 page 174
• Avoids Ryuuens attacks that he thinks could cause himself "critical injuries" Y1V7 page 175 -
  • Stated the blow he gave from Ryuen was "heavy", but Ryuuen showed no signs of "kneeling over".
• Ayanokouji vicious right Y1V7 page 176 -
• Ayanokouji would KO most but not Ryuuen Y1V7 page 176 -
• Ayanokouji admits Horikita with a bottle could kill her after analyzing her athletic build bottle(this one is took as a joke but I still included it since i used it in the OP)Y1V4.5 page 121 -
• Ayanokouji breaks out into a cold sweat for the first time in years after having to fight Tsukishiro and Shiba seriously.
  • Tsukishiro notices Ayanokouji it and smugly says he should be "reaching his limit" to which Ayanokouji calls him difficult to deal with because of how well he reads him.
• Says Shiba has the same AP as him.
• Put all his strength into punch and Tsukishiro calls it "absolutely magnificent".
• States he could "seriously injure" Nanase if he struck back unwisely.
• States his first strike would knock her out. (2nd version).
  • Does it again.
  • Says the same will happen to his next strikes.
  • 3rd time.
• Ayanokouji says Nanase has AP to knock out grown men. (Which likely includes himself from how he used to "emergency evasive action")
• She makes him take evasive action from how strong he notices her attacks became after she switched personalities. (2nd version)

As you can see there is a consistent theme with the verse as nobody besides Albert his statements that would put their durability above every other character due to his superior genetics being half black. Which is something he was likely taught when learning about USA.

Superior Lifting Strength

As I mentioned before this is where Ayanokouji mostly stands apart from the verse as this, his stamina, his kinetic vision, and his White Room Experience are his best physical attributes apart from his intelligence. The only people shown comparably to Ayanokouji here is Albert and possibly Housen.

• Sudou talks about Ayanokouji having "monstrous" lifting strength after seeing him stop Housen with brute strength and asks him how physically the "real him" is.
• Ayanokouji catches Ichizaki fist and squeezes it casusing pain Y1V7 page 169 - He collapses in pain 170 -
• Ayanokouji catches Albert fist and feels pain without even taking a direct blow Y1V7 page 169 -
• Housen stabs Ayanokouji in the palm and he halts his hand with brute strength Y2V1 299-309
• Housen says Ayanokouji calmly stopped his fist and didnt be in pain being stabbed.
• Nanase stated he didn't budge when she tried to slam him.

Upgrades

' Note: Now I didn't only find things for the scaling chain, i also found more stataments to contextualize that the strength gap in the verse comes from experience, not physical capability as Ayanokouji and Tsukishiro stated there are non white room people as talented as White Room members, and some the WR cant even produce. like Albert.

• Ayanokouji says he uses the momentum of his spinning kick to spin back and punch Ichizaki Y1V7 page 170 - (Possibly Damage Boost)
• [ Ayanokouji states its a "Gulf" difference in skill Y1V7 page 175 (Skill gap context)
• Ayanokouji being viewed as the peak for every generation and standard for achievement. I remember Amasawa also saying she views him as a "God". Y2V1 page 1-3 (Social Position social influencing)
• Every White Room student shall be viewed as above Olympic athletes and smarter than the smartest Japanese college students as a baseline. (Baseline experience for WR students)
• Ayanokouji is viewed as a "monster" when Tsukishiro looked at his info Y2V1 page 3 (Social influencing - reputation)
• Charmed Amasawa to his side after she initially targeted him. Has also did the same to Horikita, Ichinose, Kei Karuizawa, Maya. (Social influencing - Charisma)
• Nanase thinks Ayanokouji athleticism is good but he says he didn't really do much, meaning his athletic floor are higher than hers. (Context for how much more Ayanokouji athleticism is to mid tiers)
• Basically punched Nagumo before he could perceive it and only felt the pain afterwards. -- (Potentially a combat speed feat????)

Fighting tactics

• Ayanokouji is not above killing if the fight calls for it. Y1V7 page 172 - (Mental tactics)
• Tsukishiro says a 2vs1 with highly skilled agents shouldn't be considered "unfair" since he is the best in the White Room. (Experience)
• Says he has fought in "disadvantageous" situations since he was a kid and is as unconsciously used to it as a human it breathing. (Experience)
• Tsukishiro says he has high kinetic vision after Ayanokouji dodges him and Shiba punch. - (Enhanced Awareness
• Fighting Tactics: Ayanokouji is a very meticulous and analytical individual. He analyzes every opponent before the fight starts to identify their strengths and weaknesses, not just physically but also mentally. He engages each fight differently depending on the situation. If he is short on time, he will attempt to end the fight as soon as possible. If the fight is against someone physically superior, Ayanokouji will mainly attack their weak points (although he said this won't always work). After initial engagement, he usually knows the striking strength of his opponents, which he then creates his plan of attack. People who can heavily damage him like Albert, or Manabu Horikita, who he stated can one shot him, he will avoid their strikes to minimize damage accumulation. Ayanokouji knows his physical limits, and will identify how strong an opponent is, how much they can hurt him, or if a his life is at risk which also decides how he engages his opponent. His deduction is usually accurate shown when he deduced that Ibuki, and Horikita were physical equals, something that has been stated as they are rivals) while Ayanokouji has never seeing their fight.
• White Room Mentality: It has been shown that he didn't have any emotions to begin with, as he had an untouched heartbeat during a fight with multiple fighters or while receiving praise by his father. His tendency to feed his intellectual curiosity, leads to apathy towards the feelings of other people, as he believes it is irrelevant to his learning and his self. His training led him to believe that all humans are nothing, but tools and that victory is all that matters in the world. With this point of view, he became determined to win no matter what and sacrifice anything or anyone to achieve his goal of obtaining victory, no matter what.
• ANHS Mentality: Due to the upbringing in the White Room, he has come to see everyone around him as a tool and is only intent on winning above everything else. He does not mind manipulating others nor concerning himself with sacrificing a pawn as long as they help obtain his goal. Because of this mindset and his actions, it is unknown whether he really cares for those he has befriended or if he just gained their trust to use them.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

All of this can be resumed to you just taking everything at face value without taking narrative, statements and feats into consideration

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Oh and some of these are already added

 

[Buzzflightyear]

All of this can be resumed to you just taking everything at face value without taking narrative, statements and feats into consideration

That's a pretty bland debunk when I provided well over 200 scans of proof of everything I said to the point I even added triple to what I had after reading again and understanding even more context that I didn't have the first read. Context is how I got to this point. Surface reading makes people think Ayanokouji is superior to the verse when it's inconsistent with what actually happens in the story over and over. 1 or 2 times it would have validity. But they routinely repeat these things alost which is why I even got multiple versions of thescans just so no one can say I misinterpreted it

 

[Buzzflightyear]

Oh and some of these are already added

I kinda figured , it's just so much he missing I want to make sure everything is included. I think he should have a form of adaptation too unless it counts under accelerated development

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That's a pretty bland debunk when I provided well over 200 scans of proof of everything I said to the point I even added triple to what I had after reading again and understanding even more context that I didn't have the first read.

No matter how much scans you send, if they arent official translation when the verse has already official ones, then it's unusable

Context is how I got to this point. Surface reading makes people think Ayanokouji is superior to the verse when it's inconsistent with what actually happens in the story over and over.

Look buddy, the fact you think Suzune who is a low tier can one shot Ayanokouji who can tank hits from white room instructors whom can no diff all of ANHS as a kid just because she has a water bottle in her hands, makes me think you didn't touch the verse at all

The irony is astonishing

1 or 2 times it would have validity. But they routinely repeat these things I lost which is why I even got multiple versions of the scans just so no one can say I misinterpreted it

See above

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I went and found multiple versions of scans to prove that there is no errors and that Ayanokōuji doesn't outscale the verse physically, and that its only experience involved with a bit of abnornal lifting strength.

That's a pretty bland debunk when I provided well over 200 scans of proof of everything I said

Given that there is an official translation for Classroom of the Elite you need to use that translation whenever possible in place of FanTLs or MTLs. It doesn't matter that you found multiple versions of the translations that "prove" your argument since the OTL doesn't.

If you want to make these arguments please replace all your FanTLs with the relevant sections from the Official TL.

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

Additionally, manga scans should be fine as long as they don't contradict the LN since it is the original source material.

 

[Zefra3011]

Is all this even going to change something on the profile? If yes, what and how.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Is all this even going to change something on the profile? If yes, what and how.

Ayanokouji will get one shotted by Suzune who is a low tier basically

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

Is all this even going to change something on the profile? If yes, what and how.

Firstly, I don’t think there are any real proposed changes in this CRT, just changed justifications. I’m not really sure what this is trying to achieve but I’ll respond anyway. There is a lot wrong with this, so I am going to fully disagree from the start. This shows a severe lack of understanding of the verse and the scaling behind it. Zetsu has already commented on much of this so I’ll just focus on some other areas he didn’t cover as in depth.

However based on the below I would request that this thread is closed and that you stop trying to push these changes as they are being repeatedly proven to be false in the context of the verse.

I asked the same thing at the beginning. This CRT doesn't really serve a purpose aside from trying to push non Official TLs to try and add information that isn't consistent with the narrative or existing feats.

 

[Buzzflightyear]

No matter how much scans you send, if they arent official translation when the verse has already official ones, then it's unusable

Where are you getting "official translations" because the scans I'm using come from the exact same sites. I'm not sure why you believe there is some secret translation that isn't available to all readers.

Look buddy, the fact you think Suzune who is a low tier can one shot Ayanokouji who can tank hits from white room instructors whom can no diff all of ANHS as a kid just because she has a water bottle in her hands, makes me think you didn't touch the verse at all

No need to be hostile. I also have scans that led me to this point. The problem is you can't seem to fathom the possibility that these characters are not separated by AP/Dura scaling when mostly just a human level verse with elements of peak human to superhuman feats which I also included for him to be upgraded.

 

[Buzzflightyear]

Is all this even going to change something on the profile? If yes, what and how.

It's not about upgrading or downgrading. The verse just simply is not scaled correctly and hundreds of scans I listed add context to why I feel that way.

Given that there is an official translation for Classroom of the Elite you need to use that translation whenever possible in place of FanTLs or MTLs. It doesn't matter that you found multiple versions of the translations that "prove" your argument since the OTL doesn't.

If you want to make these arguments please replace all your FanTLs with the relevant sections from the Official TL.

I added every version of the scans possible and they all say the same things. I'm not sure here the confusion is. They all say the exact same things

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Where are you getting "official translations" because the scans I'm using come from the exact same sites. I'm not sure why you believe there is some secret translation that isn't available to all readers.

No need to be hostile. I also have scans that led me to this point. The problem is you can't seem to fathom the possibility that these characters are not separated by AP/Dura scaling when mostly just a human level verse with elements of peak human to superhuman feats which I also included for him to be upgraded.

We have characters falling off cliffs and falling from the 2nd floors of buildings, you think a water bottle is gonna damage them?

I already showed the contradictions within your own scans like Albert being superior to Koji in stats only to the next scan you sent describing Kouenji being stated to be above Albert and Ayanokouji being stated by himself that he could win in a tug o war had he actually tried

Ayanokouji was also stated to be able to one shot high tiers like Shiba and Tsukishiro while not in his best condition to which you still insist it's not true when Koji himself said that

We also told you that during Y1V1 to Y1V3 Koji wanted to live a normal life and so he created a fake persona imitating your average student, making him an unreliable narrator as we only see him start to reveal his physical abilities and mental abilities after he breaks his persona

 

[Buzzflightyear]

I believe correct justification would be to provide these "official scans" to refute all of the ones I added instead of just dismissing them with no proof. Majority of what I listed is not on his profile to say the "official" scans are already posted, when these feats were never mentioned once on the profile.

 

[Zefra3011]

It's not about upgrading or downgrading. The verse just simply is not scaled correctly and hundreds of scans I listed add context to why I feel that way.

the verse isnt scaled correctly but nothing has to be changed?

 

[Buzzflightyear]

We have characters falling off cliffs and falling from the 2nd floors of buildings, you think a water bottle is gonna damage them?

That's not justification. That feat could be called an outlier as it's not mentioned in LN like the feats I mentioned. Where is the official LN scan for this feat?

I already showed the contradictions within your own scans like Albert being superior to Koji in stats only to the next scan you sent describing Kouenji being stated to be above Albert and Ayanokouji being stated by himself that he could win in a tug o war had he actually tried

I said Alberts durability was higher. I never said lifting strength as Ayanokouji was able to catch hisfull powered fist which proves my point that his lifting strength and the other points I listed about it being hat stands out as his punched to the same person didn't have the same effectiveness which he says himself. Also When you read the context they are talking about being above as every.

Ayanokouji was also stated to be able to one shot high tiers like Shiba and Tsukishiro while not in his best condition to which you still insist it's not true when Koji himself said that

I posted many scans where Koji is stating stuff and you dismiss it. Including where he said Shiba has the same power as his own in the same page.

We also told you that during Y1V1 to Y1V3 Koji wanted to live a normal life and so he created a fake persona imitating your average student, making him an unreliable narrator as we only see him start to reveal his physical abilities and mental abilities after he breaks his persona

Yes while also mentioning the times he specifically goes all out when certain situations calls for it like the Manabu race, him punching Albert not knowing his abilities, the multiple times he said he hit Ryuuen seriously and he only stumbled backwards, the fact tuskishiro and Shiba made him cold sweat and breathe hard from the fatigue of their fight lasting over 2 minutes etc.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

That's not justification. That feat could be called an outlier as it's not mentioned in LN like the feats I mentioned. Where is the official LN scan for this feat?

The anime is also being used as the creator of the series partakes in the development of the anime and even takes inspiration from the anime to the LN

I said Alberts durability was higher. I never said lifting strength as Ayanokouji was able to catch hisfull powered fist which proves my point that his lifting strength and the other points I listed about it being hat stands out as his punched to the same person didn't have the same effectiveness which he says himself. Also When you read the context they are talking about being above as every.

Kouenji was literally stated to be able to take down Ryuen's gang easily if he wanted too, there's no specifics here like Lifting Strenght or whatever, Albert does not scale to Kouenji or Ayanokouji at all

I posted many scans where Koji is stating stuff and you dismiss it. Including where he said Shiba has the same power as his own in the same page.

Which later gets contradicted by Ayanokouji

Yes while also mentioning the times he specifically goes all out when certain situations calls for it like the Manabu race,

False, Ayanokouji also stated he could go even faster if he wanted too

him punching Albert not knowing his abilities,

Irrelevant?

the multiple times he said he hit Ryuuen seriously and he only stumbled backwards,

Never once did he hit seriously, Ayanokouji stated himself that he could one shot Ryuen if he wanted too

the fact tuskishiro and Shiba made him cold sweat and breathe hard from the fatigue of their fight lasting over 2 minutes etc.

Koji was tired, hungry and dehydrated on a scorching weather, he also had a fight before his confrontation with them, not to mention he was active all the time with the island being stated that it drains even the most athletic people easily

 

[Buzzflightyear]

I'll wait for a mod's opinion on this I have studies to attend to right now. Good talk lads

 

[Buzzflightyear]

The anime is also being used as the creator of the series partakes in the development of the anime and even takes inspiration from the anime to the LN

I'll respond to this but after this I have to go guys.... So it's anime only? That's definitely not more justification than LN scans when mostly everything I mentioned also happens in the anime. Ayanokouji even shook his hand when he punched Albert because of his durability. That's justification for my scaling chain point

Kouenji was literally stated to be able to take down Ryuen's gang easily if he wanted too, there's no specifics here like Lifting Strenght or whatever, Albert does not scale to Kouenji or Ayanokouji at all

Yes because he is more skilled than them like Ayanokouji. That's not an AP or durability statement. I believe Manabu would be able to defeat them as well with his skill level but it doesn't mean he's the most durable of them.

Which later gets contradicted by Ayanokouji

That's not a contradiction because he never applied his plan to prove his point like he tried with Albert. He punched full power and dealt shallow damage then explains it's because of his African American heritage. That's how he provides context when he notices something.

False, Ayanokouji also stated he could go even faster if he wanted too

This is actually more justification that he infact was going all out because of the effort he is Contextualizing he is using in the face. Plus, This doesn't prove that Manabu can't do this as well or was actually running his hardest as never hear his POV of if it was his peak, and the fact that Nanase can do this as well and she was being serious

Irrelevant?

It's very revenant. He said he can't afford to hold back not knowing the full extent of how strong Albert was being much bigger than him so he used full power to gauge his durability and decided pressure points was the best answer due to his full powered punches to normal spots dealing minimal damage.

Never once did he hit seriously, Ayanokouji stated himself that he could one shot Ryuen if he wanted too

I mean the scans are there bro. He says it multiple times. Hitting seriously doesn't mean full power. This just says his full power punch can one shot Ryuuen but not Albert who Ayanokouji also said was stronger than Ryuuen and was surprised Albert even followed him.

Koji was tired, hungry and dehydrated on a scorching weather, he also had a fight before his confrontation with them,

That was still his limit. Which honestly would lower his stamina to peak human rather than superhuman because with superhuman stamina he should be able to handle this and be fine. Superhuman stamina is basically life threatening injuries while keeping peak performance.

not to mention he was active all the time with the island being stated that it drains even the most athletic people easily

That would cap his stamina at peak human and justifies Tuskishiro that he has a limit.

But good talk lads, if there are scans that disprove what I mentioned I will gladly remove the ones that aren't valid, but I searched thoroughly for days and all these scans state the same things so if there is another translation I would love to read it to better understand, if you could provide them that would be helpful to this thread.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'll respond to this but after this I have to go guys.... So it's anime only? That's definitely not more justification than LN scans when mostly everything I mentioned also happens in the anime. Ayanokouji even shook his hand when he punched Albert because of his durability. That's justification for my scaling chain point

Yes because he is more skilled than them like Ayanokouji. That's not an AP or durability statement.

Oh for the love of god, Housen was stated to be able to overpower BOTH Albert and Manabu with sheer stats, Ayanokouji managed to stop Housen with his hand

I believe Manabu would be able to defeat them as well with his skill level but it doesn't mean he's the most durable of them.

Manabu doesn't scale to Albert physically to begin with

That's not a contradiction because he never applied his plan to prove his point like he tried with Albert. He punched full power and dealt shallow damage then explains it's because of his African American heritage. That's how he provides context when he notices something.

Narrative says otherwise

This is actually more justification that he infact was going all out because of the effort he is Contextualizing he is using in the face. Plus, This doesn't prove that Manabu can't do this as well or was actually running his hardest as never hear his POV of if it was his peak, and the fact that Nanase can do this as well and she was being serious

No?? If he went all out, Manabu wouldn't be able to catch up to him at all

It's very revenant. He said he can't afford to hold back not knowing the full extent of how strong Albert was being much bigger than him so he used full power to gauge his durability and decided pressure points was the best answer due to his full powered punches to normal spots dealing minimal damage.

False

I mean the scans are there bro. He says it multiple times. Hitting seriously doesn't mean full power. This just says his full power punch can one shot Ryuuen but not Albert who Ayanokouji also said was stronger than Ryuuen and was surprised Albert even followed him.

No, there's no statement of that, more over if you look at the context you will see that Ayanokouji that Ayanokouji has no intention of giving his all in this fight at all

That was still his limit. Which honestly would lower his stamina to peak human rather than superhuman because with superhuman stamina he should be able to handle this and be fine. Superhuman stamina is basically life threatening injuries while keeping peak performance.

That would cap his stamina at peak human and justifies Tuskishiro that he has a limit.

But good talk lads, if there are scans that disprove what I mentioned I will gladly remove the ones that aren't valid, but I searched thoroughly for days and all these scans state the same things so if there is another translation I would love to read it to better understand, if you could provide them that would be helpful to this thread.

No , Ayanokouji remained active for 14 days on that same enviroment, there's no peak human or athletic

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

I'll respond to this but after this I have to go guys.... So it's anime only? That's definitely not more justification than LN scans when mostly everything I mentioned also happens in the anime. Ayanokouji even shook his hand when he punched Albert because of his durability. That's justification for my scaling chain point

Oh for the love of god, Housen was stated to be able to overpower BOTH Albert and Manabu with sheer stats, Ayanokouji managed to stop Housen with his hand

It's worse than that. Ayanokouji overpowered Housen with a knife through his hand. So the muscles and ligaments in his hand are all partly destroyed. Nevertheless he was able to completely overpower Housen's strength with that hand. Since Housen is well above Albert in terms of strength it makes the claim that Albert > Koji totally false.

Also side note it's Koji's non-dominant hand against Housen's right hand just to make it more clear.



Koji in ANHS key (which is established weaker than WR key) is relative in strength to Kouenji. Albert and Sudo are FAR INFERIOR to him.



It also took Ishizaki and Albert together to surprise Housen in order to restrain him. Showing he is stronger than either of them alone.

 

[Buzzflightyear]

It's worse than that. Ayanokouji overpowered Housen with a knife through his hand. So the muscles and ligaments in his hand are all partly destroyed.

We can't assume this while also dismissing statements he routinely says himself, that would be inconsistent and only picking what benefits him. When Ayanokouji is in pain he usually states it as my scans show. If his ligaments were destroyed that's definitely something worth noting.

Nevertheless he was able to completely overpower Housen's strength with that hand. Since Housen is well above Albert in terms of strength it makes the claim that Albert > Koji totally false.

Housen is above him in terms of fighting ability. albert is physically stronger. When Ayanokouji caught Albert fist he said he felt pain from his elbow to his torso. However he didn't feel anything from Housen. The same way Koenji and Manabu are. He was restrained and held down by Albert and Ichizaki and defeated by Ryuuen. I never seen a statement that said Housen could out strength Albert.

Also side note it's Koji's non-dominant hand against Housen's right hand just to make it more clear.

He also did this to Albert which is why I'm saying Ayanokouji's lifting strength is more abnormal his AP, which every scan under that category in OP demonstrates. Also, this just means their relative just like he is to Albert while slightly weaker than him. He didn't over power 2 hands with 1. It's still 1 hand vs 1 hand.

Koji in ANHS key (which is established weaker than WR key) is relative in strength to Kouenji. Albert and Sudo are FAR INFERIOR to him.

No it was established that he was out of shape since the workout regime he is using isn't as physically taxing and that his lifting strength has diminished if you read the context of the scans. Your punching and durability doesn't change from intense workouts otherwise no fighters would get hurt. A boxer who has a weak chin will always have a weak chin. Boxers like Canelo will always have punching power and a strong chin while a boxer like Devin Haney will always have a weak chin and pillow punches. Working out doesn't improve that and a person reaching their physical prime in age would never be considered weaker than his younger self.

It also took Ishizaki and Albert together to surprise Housen in order to restrain him. Showing he is stronger than either of them alone.

They fight in groups, they always have, just like Albert and Hiyorin restained Ayanokouji, it's not because he needed her help, that's just how Class C standard tactics are. They only held him down because Ryuuen couldn't beat him. That doesn't