Battle for the 5th strongest in tier High 6-B: Shion vs Quria

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Before deal with Chinamen verse, let's go with Destiny
Shion: "Rimuru-Sama look so cute today, want me kill those people who look you with bad eyes back in the morning?" =

QURIA: "hypothetical. If Oryx were alive, and I were organic, and we entered a romantic arrangement,
would that constitute a paradox?
And would it be… cute?

What is the minimum acceptable “gift” in a courtship ritual?
Was eating his worm considered flirting?" =

But can beat Son Goku tho? (Inconclusive)=

Speed =

Battlefield take place in the Death Zone, Rassilon is beting for Quria and Toymaker is beting for Shion

 

[PrimeHydra64]

Shion is significantly faster than Quria with her also having CM1 and Fate Manip which Quria only has resistance to CM 2.

Though Acausality type 3 is a really big problem if pulling future versions of themselves would mean that they already used their reactive evolution. And I have heard destiny has many layers though I don't know if Quria has them or not.

I am a bit tired, I'll reply to anyone after I wake up.
Also, nice battle field

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Shion is significantly faster than Quria

Speed is equal tho, unless you means amps

Speed =

with her also having CM1 and Fate Manip which Quria only has resistance to CM 2.

wait, what? Quria should be have Cm type 1 resistence becuase Crota and the twins were unable to kill her despite throw everything to her, I guess will do quick CRT

Fate is a bit tricky, the real quria have fate resistence (plus it outside the range) but the avatar doesnt so idk what could happen

Though Acausality type 3 is a really big problem if pulling future versions of themselves would mean that they already used their reactive evolution. And I have heard destiny has many layers though I don't know if Quria has them or not.

Oryx´s lover should have it, Quria discover the Sword logic and start to explode it to the point was reach godhood before Oryx kick Quaria

I am a bit tired, I'll reply to anyone after I wake up.
Also, nice battle field

ok and yeah
Time Lords watching the fight:

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Well, how many layers does Quara have ?

I’m not seeing any Information Type 2 for his H6B key , so information analysis and mind control wouldn’t work. Nor does he seem to have Conceptual Type 1 for his High 6-B key, which means that the moment Shion turns herself into a spiritual lifeform, it should be a win , considering Quara doesn’t have resistance to fate or causality manipulation either. Though, his Acausality Type 3, time manipulation, and summoning would still be a problem for her.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Well, how many layers does Quara have ?

I’m not seeing any Information Type 2 for his H6B key , so information analysis and mind control wouldn’t work. Nor does he seem to have Conceptual Type 1 for his High 6-B key, which means that the moment Shion turns herself into a spiritual lifeform, it should be a win , considering Quara doesn’t have resistance to fate or causality manipulation either. Though, his Acausality Type 3, time manipulation, and summoning would still be a problem for her.

fate and casuality hax won`t work on quara sword logic users have

• Acausality: The Sword Logic is a paracausal power, and tapping into it allows the users to similarly defy regular causality. For most users, type 4 is what is warranted. However, in a particularly extreme case, Oryx, the Taken King was able to defeat causal closure entirely, causing him to end up unbound by any system of causality in a manner similar to The Darkness itself. This along with other support grants him type 5.

 

[sukuna171]

Also, shion doesn't resist mathematical manipulation.

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Also, shion doesn't resist mathematical manipulation.

Quara’s Mathematical Manipulation is just a form of reality warping, so unless there are layers involved, Shion should be fine since she has resistance to reality warping.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Also, shion doesn't resist mathematical manipulation.

Please, change the colors, i cant see a shit

Quara’s Mathematical Manipulation is just a form of reality warping, so unless there are layers involved, Shion should be fine since she has resistance to reality warping.

Kinda no? This is same reason why you can't resist Law manipulation by resist Reality warping (this is a example)

Also, is layered yeah, cuz is byproduct of paracasual powers which are tied to Sword logic

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

fate and casuality hax won`t work on quara sword logic users have

That’s Acausality Type 4, though.

Which I don’t think would help much, considering Shion herself became a digital lifeform who also has Acausality Type 4.

...time stopped.

From the corner of her eye, Shion could see that the world had become devoid of color.
No! Not yet! It’s not over yet!!
She tried to force the scream out, but Shion’s body didn’t respond to her. She was stopped, unable to stand back up. She couldn’t open her mouth—not even a little twitch. Only her consciousness was there, as confused as it was.

But Shion didn’t give up. The sight of the colorless world etched itself into her mind. There was something about this moment, this instant in time, that connected to the cause of this strange phenomenon...
Then I’ll just do it myself!

It was a ridiculous leap of logic. Unless you were driven by the sort of grand fate a Hero had, a mere unique skill alone could do nothing to control time. But Shion didn’t know anything about that kind of “truth,” and she wouldn’t have cared anyway. If the possibility was there, all she had to do was try it.

Shion remade her own body by activating her unique skill Master Chef. After optimization upon optimization, her flesh and blood once again accepted the demands she made of it. All that mattered were results. Shion defied logic, taking the stopped world and making it her own.

But that, too, was just part of a process. Her goal was far ahead of her, and she was still working to reach it.

.........


---

 

[AstraphelNoctis4]

Please, change the colors, i cant see a shit


Kinda no? This is same reason why you can't resist Law manipulation by resist Reality warping (this is a example)

Yes, what I’m saying is that Quara’s Mathematical Manipulation is essentially a form of reality manipulation. Since its application revolves around manipulating reality, Shion would only need to resist the effect, that is, the manipulation of reality.

It’s the same logic as how you don’t need resistance (although the thread I linked is talking about NEP, I don’t think it changes in regard to resistance either) to plot manipulation specifically to resist its effects if the effect in question is something you already have resistance to.

NEP2-5 question

I will be straight and fast. A NEP2 character, which has no "plot" as a nonexistent aspect (or that this aspect does not even exist in cosmology), can be affected by plot hax without the plot has feats of affecting NEP2? An example is the CRT of Anos vs Monika itself. Monika has its plot hax...

vsbattles.com

Also, is layered yeah, cuz is byproduct of paracasual powers which are tied to Sword logic

How many layers ? Also, I don’t see him being able to interact with Shion’s abstract existence.

 

[AlexSamDen]

A thing to mention, is that Shion will have this on her profile within 12 hours, so her dimension escape is blocked and her Aca3 will have trouble coming

• Spatial Manipulation, Dimensional Travel Negation & Teleportation Negation, Spatial Manipulation Negation (Via Spatial Domination, can interfere with space and block space travel abilities, as well as counter spatial attacks)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Anything stopping Quria from just A) adapting a resistance to Shion's shit, or B) deleting Shion from starting distance range?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Anything stopping Quria from just A) adapting a resistance to Shion's shit

That would be a battle of adaptation as Shion has bullshit AD and RE, and I would bet she gets her US to absolutely decimate Quria before she adapts a resistance to EVERYTHING

, or B) deleting Shion from starting distance range?

CM1 barriers (they're more than that, but that's what matters most rn)

 

[DaReaperMan]

That would be a battle of adaptation as Shion has bullshit AD and RE, and I would bet she gets her US to absolutely decimate Quria before she adapts a resistance to EVERYTHING

Oh, no, she only needs one good hit due to Vex nonsense. Sword Logic does not care if someone is ACTUALLY ******* DEAD, only that they look like it enough.

Sword Logic then gabagools Shion because now Quria has all of Shion's stuff plus a layer.

CM1 barriers (they're more than that, but that's what matters most rn)

Prove those are passive or that they can defend against layers(or hell, even that they defend against a quantum attack...). That's that Shion realistically needs.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Oh, no, she only needs one good hit due to Vex nonsense. Sword Logic does not care if someone is ACTUALLY ******* DEAD, only that they look like it enough.

Sword Logic then gabagools Shion because now Quria has all of Shion's stuff plus a layer.

1) The Sword Logic profile provides a restriction that only some of these abilities are actually used by specific people and you will have to provide examples for it to count

Firstly, not everybody is capable of using the Sword Logic at the same efficacy. The only known beings to have full usage of every single ability listed above at maximum capacity are The Darkness itself, and Oryx, the Taken King. Due to the machinations of Savathûn, the Witch-Queen, powers unknown even to Oryx may develop. As such, the abilities utilized by each user will be specified on their pages as there are many different types of Sword Logic with some being specific to certain individuals.

2) Shion has an Unconventional resistance to power mimicry and such
3) Sword logic abilities (such as defining as dead) are listed as type 2 or 3 concepts and as such won't affect Shion's type 1 concept

Prove those are passive or that they can defend against layers(or hell, even that they defend against a quantum attack...). That's that Shion realistically needs.

The fact that Quria doesn't have a CM1 attack is already enough to grant protection. Plus it protects the user's existence from all attacks, even quantum. It will also be there from the start

 

[DaReaperMan]

1) The Sword Logic profile provides a restriction that only some of these abilities are actually used by specific people and you will have to provide examples for it to count

When it comes to stealing powers and adding layers, anyone can do it, it's the foundation of Sword Logic, and it's how Crota and I think the Deathsingers farmed Sword Logic with Oryx.

2) Shion has an Unconventional resistance to power mimicry and such

Funny, that's what the Vex said when trying to copy Oryx...

3) Sword logic abilities (such as defining as dead) are listed as type 2 or 3 concepts and as such won't affect Shion's type 1 concept

Quria doesn't even have deathsongs lmfao

The fact that Quria doesn't have a CM1 attack is already enough to grant protection. Plus it protects the user's existence from all attacks, even quantum. It will also be there from the start

Can you post a scan of it doing this? I'm not like, the main destiny guy but if what you say be true, then yes it's an uphill battle.

 

[AlexSamDen]

When it comes to stealing powers and adding layers, anyone can do it, it's the foundation of Sword Logic, and it's how Crota and I think the Deathsingers farmed Sword Logic with Oryx.

Not arguing about layers, plus the sword logic's mimicry comes from killing, not just copying

Funny, that's what the Vex said when trying to copy Oryx...

One Unconventional resistance isn't equal to the other. Don't see her being able to mimick CM1

Can you post a scan of it doing this? I'm not like, the main destiny guy but if what you say be true, then yes it's an uphill battle.

Not a scan, as it's a hassle, but barriers are accepted to be able to block this attack

Holy Manipulation, Quantum Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Power Destruction, Space-Time Manipulation, Durability Negation, Conceptual Destruction (Type 1) and Information Manipulation (Type 2)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Not arguing about layers, plus the sword logic's mimicry comes from killing, not just copying

That's the thing, Oryx, nor Crota, nor the Deathsingers ever died, they just looked like it.

One Unconventional resistance isn't equal to the other. Don't see her being able to mimick CM1

Mebbe

Not a scan, as it's a hassle, but barriers are accepted to be able to block this

I mean like, Shion's barrier blocking something

 

[AlexSamDen]

That's the thing, Oryx, nor Crota, nor the Deathsingers ever died, they just looked like it.

I'm going off profile

I mean like, Shion's barrier blocking something

Well the verse adopts a skill system in which if an extra skill has the same name, it has the same effect and the only thing that differs from user to user is how powerful of an attack it can hold and not what type of attack. There is also the fact that in verse, if an attack is more powerful than the barrier, it tears through it first, no matter the nature
A verse-specific mechanic basically

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm going off profile

And I'm telling you the whole gaining layers and stealing powers thing is something universal to all users of Sword Logic lol

Well the verse adopts a skill system in which if an extra skill has the same name, it has the same effect and the only thing that differs from user to user is how powerful of an attack it can hold and not what type of attack. There is also the fact that in verse, if an attack is more powerful than the barrier, it tears through it first, no matter the nature
A verse-specific mechanic basically

Does she actually use it in combat or is it a glorified pretty thing on her profile that you say she uses but she never actually ******* does?

 

[AlexSamDen]

Does she actually use it in combat or is it a glorified pretty thing on her profile that you say she uses but she never actually ******* does?

Aah, I thought you meant her specifically blocking a quantum attack..
Of course she does, it's the main defense skill for pretty much everyone in the verse

It may seem that she isn’t thinking a lot, but in reality, she has been combining a variety of skills.

First, she applies Extra Skill ‘Multilayer Barrier’ for defense and utilizes “Heavenly Gaze” and “Magic Perception” to detect her enemies’ weakness.

 

[sukuna171]

One Unconventional resistance isn't equal to the other. Don't see her being able to mimick CM1

Shion doesn't resist mathematical manipulation.

Spoiler

and the Traveler's reawakening DID change what circles mean, you Hunter barbarian! Perfectly squaring the circle cannot be accomplished with classical construction so long as pi is a transcendental number, because root pi is not constructable (that is, constructable by compass and a straight edge in finite steps). But paracausal invocation allows us to set root pi to an arbitrary value even in a flat manifold, and because the sphere of the awakened Traveler defines a toroid in n dimensions—oh, but this is all evading your point, isn't it?

Spoiler

you talked to me about circles. Circles! Do you know
what the Traveler's reawakening meant for the geometry
of circles? You told me it changed everything about the
semiotic role of circles in some paracausal invocation of
the Light.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

One Unconventional resistance isn't equal to the other. Don't see her being able to mimick CM1

Quria figure out Sword Logic which is an extension of this dude

Abstract Existence: The Darkness describes itself as the Sword Logic in purest form

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Also, light and Darkness are already type 1 CM and a lot of other things (by being an extension of The Gardener and Winnower), guys can touch those two things, so Shion's AE dont matter


Fate is resist becuase Sword logoc user go against Fate, so the stronger the sword logic is, then the deeper is the resistence

 

[AlexSamDen]

Shion doesn't resist mathematical manipulation.

Spoiler

and the Traveler's reawakening DID change what circles mean, you Hunter barbarian! Perfectly squaring the circle cannot be accomplished with classical construction so long as pi is a transcendental number, because root pi is not constructable (that is, constructable by compass and a straight edge in finite steps). But paracausal invocation allows us to set root pi to an arbitrary value even in a flat manifold, and because the sphere of the awakened Traveler defines a toroid in n dimensions—oh, but this is all evading your point, isn't it?

Spoiler

you talked to me about circles. Circles! Do you know
what the Traveler's reawakening meant for the geometry
of circles? You told me it changed everything about the
semiotic role of circles in some paracausal invocation of
the Light.

Don't see how any of the listed will change the course if battle

Quria figure out Sword Logic which is an extension of this dude

Extension of the dude, but by itself only doing CM2 and CM3, can be a lesser byproduct. Him being described as "in the purest form" also doesn't help, as there is no mention of her analyzing the "pure", only the regular

 

[AlexSamDen]

Also, light and Darkness are already type 1 CM and a lot of other things (by being an extension of The Gardener and Winnower), guys can touch those two things, so Shion's AE dont matter

No one right now is going for AE... There is a CM1 barrier

Fate is resist becuase Sword logoc user go against Fate, so the stronger the sword logic is, then the deeper is the resistence

No one argues for Fate rn either

 

[sukuna171]

Quria figure out Sword Logic which is an extension of this dude

Oryx also mentioned that the Taken are a part of the Hive, and so is Quria, so consider this as well.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Oryx also mentioned that the Taken are a part of the Hive, and so is Quria, so consider this as well.

Can someone actually tell what this is. Not really fond of watching YouTube and doubt there will be a correct conclusion either

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Extension of the dude, but by itself only doing CM2 and CM3, can be a lesser byproduct. Him being described as "in the purest form" also doesn't help, as there is no mention of her analyzing the "pure", only the regular

Not i mean, regular Darkness and light is Type 1, the other Types come from other techniques in same way you can have different froms of Matter manipulation

Warlock (Destiny)

Warlocks are warrior-scholars and one of the three Guardian classes. They specialize in manipulating the elements and supporting their allies in combat. Warlocks were the first to tap the power of the Traveller, wielding its light as they ventured beyond the safety of the Shield to acquire...

vsbattles.fandom.com

And also yeah, deadass, when come to home I will grab the Sword Logic page and remade it, shit is outdate as hell

 

[DaReaperMan]

Give this until 2026 for two mods to finally respond to the CRT Oliver makes

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Give this until 2026 for two mods to finally respond to the CRT Oliver makes

I hate how many of my threads dies so quickly

But yeah, i should switch to Warlock since at least they dont have part of their profile so outdate?

 

[AlexSamDen]

I hate how many of my threads dies so quickly

But yeah, i should switch to Warlock since at least they dont have part of their profile so outdate?

Don't see like anything that helps him there?

 

[AlexSamDen]

So, bump?

 

[K'rimuru]

If I had to give my opinion, I think Shion would win, from what I saw of Quria's profile, he has no way to counter Shion's Mid-Godly regeneration and resurrection.

Additionally, it has no resistance to attack reflection, CM1 4 layers, Law 4 layers, Subjective Reality 4 layers etc...

And the worst part is that Shion's page is not up to date, it's missing her ultimate skill Susanoo that she gets during the fight against Dagruel (I think).

So she should also have all the abilities of the ultimate skills.

(afterwards I may have forgotten to visualize some abilities of the Quria page, if this is the case do not hesitate to point it out to me).

 

[Deonment]

Just gonna pop in to say that
The Concept resistance got updated on the profile, WHY just forgot to apply it when the relavant CRT dropped (no extra CRT needed to be made since it's applying something already accepted)
Cough Cough

Death Manipulation, Information Manipulation (Type 2) and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1; the Sea of Screams erodes one's 'shape', threatening their very being.[66][64] Stalemated the children of Oryx, who can all use Deathsongs, for a century[12])

Anyways Tensura isn't winning layer nonsense, even if you just use the game mechanics aspects of light levels/power you get 50+ layers of hax bare minimum, considering splicer is all the way over at level 1000+ and a gap of (iirc) 20 is enough to make enemies immune your everything (and this is an utter lowball based on just limiting them to game mechanics)

Quria pops into Vex space, reconstructs Shion from the universe up, and makes her fight 20 of herself + the endless nigh-omniscient vex horde, and if she steps into Vex Space she is dead or will wish she was dead

 

[AlexSamDen]

Anyways Tensura isn't winning layer nonsense, even if you just use the game mechanics aspects of light levels/power you get 50+ layers of hax bare minimum, considering splicer is all the way over at level 1000+ and a gap of (iirc) 20 is enough to make enemies immune your everything (and this is an utter lowball based on just limiting them to game mechanics)

If you read the thread, the real argument is not layers, Queria just doesn't have a CM1 attack and also doesn't resist Fate

Quria pops into Vex space, reconstructs Shion from the universe up, and makes her fight 20 of herself + the endless nigh-omniscient vex horde, and if she steps into Vex Space she is dead or will wish she was dead

She won't be able to go there

Spatial Manipulation, Dimensional Travel Negation & Teleportation Negation, Spatial Manipulation Negation (Via Spatial Domination, can interfere with space and block space travel abilities[5], as well as counter spatial attacks[6])

 

[Deonment]

If you read the thread, the real argument is not layers, Queria just doesn't have a CM1 attack and also doesn't resist Fate

Even the most basic of Paracausals tell reality, its laws, causality and fate to **** off, let alone a Quria that was stalemating and farming up Sword Logic against Crota and Oryx's Daughters
It also doesn't need to have a CM1 attack when it can just replicate Shion and have her use her own kit

She won't be able to go there

That firstly will require that she uses it off rip, but secondly, considering that Oryx, his daughter, and Crota each in the first's Throne World couldn't stop the vex from ripping holes into it to travel through, I severely doubt she can

 

[AlexSamDen]

Even the most basic of Paracausals tell reality, its laws, causality and fate to **** off, let alone a Quria that was stalemating and farming up Sword Logic against Crota and Oryx's Daughters

Sword logic only grants Aca towards causality and not fate.

It also doesn't need to have a CM1 attack when it can just replicate Shion and have her use her own kit

I thought we went through it back in the general thread, Shion resists mimicry

That firstly will require that she uses it off rip, but secondly, considering that Oryx, his daughter, and Crota each in the first's Throne World couldn't stop the vex from ripping holes into it to travel through, I severely doubt she can

Don't ask me, I know shit about what happened there, I'm going off profile here. Did these characters have any specific anti-teleport abilities?

 

[sukuna171]

Sword logic only grants Aca towards causality and not fate.

Having sword logic makes you paracausal.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Having sword logic makes you paracausal.

I'm still going off profiles, unlike Takens, the Sword Logic does not specify fate as an application. Moreover what does "can defy normal causality" mean? So they are normally not Aca, but in a specific scenario they can become one?