Ben 10 Aliens Scaling Each Other

[zaraus]

GEORGE​

Fasttrack withstands George's attack and reacts to his attacks :​

Evidence

kevin gets behind george and stalls him a little bit and pulls his hair :​

Evidence

Gwen attacks george and damages him and george attacks gwen and gwen withstands it :​

Evidence

George fights ultimate Humungousaur :​

Evidence

Esoterica's avoid Sir George's attacks and deal damage to George :​

Evidence

LUCUBRA VİLGAX​

Humungousaur lucubra reacts and withstands attack from vilgax :​

Evidence

Gwen lucubra withstands the attack from vilgax :​

Evidence

Heatblast reacts and evades attacks from lucubra vilgax :​

Evidence

GWEN ANODİTE FORM​

Liam escapes the attack of Gwen's anodite form, attacks Psyphon's helpers with his anodite form and they withstand it :​

Evidence

Helen gives anodite Gwen the upper hand as the amalgam children escape Gwen's attacks :​

Evidence 1 2

gwen attacks the Humungousaur with her anodite form and the Humungousaur withstands it :​

Evidence

Looma withstands the attack from Gwen :​

Evidence

The rock monster withstands the attack from Gwen :​

Evidence

ATOMİX​

Atomix ultimate attacks Humungousaur and ultimate spider monkey, both withstand these blows :​

Evidence

WAYBİG​

waybig attacks Trombipulor in base form and Trombipulor withstands it :​

Evidence

​

Gwen reacts to Waybig's attack and survives for a while :​

Evidence

waybig ultimate spider monkey ultimate echo echo ultimate Swampfire ultimate Humungousaur ultimate Cannonbolt ultimate Big Chill waybig attacks them all and they withstand it :​

Evidence

Rath and Frankenstrike can escape waybig's attack and beam :​

Evidence

Kai and benji react to waybad's attack and escape :​

Evidence

Shocksquatch escapes waybad's attack and survives :​

Evidence

Retaliator Armor attacks waybig and withstands his blow :​

Evidence

TROMBİPULOR​

Goop attacks trombipulor deals damage and withstands trombipulor's blow echo echo defeats trombipulor with wall of sound :​

Evidence

MALWARE​

Feedback harms the fourth form of malware :​

Evidence

FUTURE​

Crashocker attacks Exo-Skull Exo-Skull withstands this attack :​

Evidence

Max trades blows with future animo and defeats him :​

Evidence

Fourmungousaur battles Snare-oh And Rath :​

Evidence

SPANNER​

Spanner trades blows with Merlinisapien :​

Evidence

Exo Skull attacks Spanner and Spanner withstands the attack :​

Evidence

Spanner fights sunder twice :​

Evidence 1 2

MALGAX​

Malgax trades blows with diamond head malgax defeats diamond head Whampire trades blows with malgax but malgax prevails Max can damage malgax with his gun and withstand his blow Armodrillo's arm damages malgax and blox's explosive bullets damage malgax and feedback absorbs energy and uses it physically and defeats malgax :​

Evidence 1 2 3

MALTRUANT​

Rook and maltruant trade blows :​

Evidence

(Maltruant's powers don't work where there is no time, but what rook is talking about there is that the power of time doesn't work)​

Maltruant trades blows with Kai and Gwen. Ben 10k trades blows with Maltruant :​

Evidence

​

EXO SKULL​

STAR CORE :​

Evidence

Exo Skull takes the star core and attacks the techadons and the techadons withstand this attack and attack kevin and rook and they withstand it :​

Evidence

EATLE​

Eatle and julie trade blows :​

Evidence

Captain Nemesis attacks Eatle :​

Evidence

eatle attacks the rock monsters and the rock monsters withstand it :​

Evidence

Otto withstands the attack from Eatle :​

Evidence


In short, I am in favor of all of them being scaled to each other and I presented the STAR CORE argument as an additional feat.

Enough for now, these are what I have in mind, and if you have anything you want to add, you can present it.

​

AGREE : E6pire Memonto_Mori Spectra_Schiffer Aolphl Köfteekmek​

DISAGREE : Ghengiroo115​

NEUTRAL : OMNIVERSAL-KING​

 

[zaraus]

AAAAAA I've been planning to open this for a long time

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Looks good i agree

 

[E6pire]

I agree

 

[Reiner04]

Before leaving, since I don't have much time to evaluate properly. I trust @Ghengiroo115 sense of judgement (@Antvasima ); so I'll be fine with whatever she decides, incase I Disagree with her, I'll just login back duh. So count me agreeing with her. Cya.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Before leaving, since I don't have much time to evaluate properly. I trust @Ghengiroo115 sense of judgement (@Antvasima ); so I'll be fine with whatever she decides, incase I Disagree with her, I'll just login back duh. So count me agreeing with her. Cya.

Crazy how it’s not even been three months yet and I’m already considered that trustworthy lol

Anyway yeah I’m gonna respond to this in a bit with my thoughts, but it’ll be in a bit of a while since I’ve not long woken up and I’m a bit busy today. I will say that I believe I saw some speed scaling arguments while skimming through it, and that I agree with any of those as I believe everyone should be comparable in speed (also they will be comparable from the speed upgrade thread).

 

[Aolphl]

It's nice to see this verse develop with really tangible Crts. Usually there are ridiculous CRTs every day, but this is very different from them and makes sense about scaling.
I agree
Rex victims

 

[zaraus]

Rex kurbanları

W

 

[Ghengiroo115]

1/?

OK so I’m gonna be responding in chunks since my browser likes to randomly reset often and I don’t wanna lose everything I write lol

Fasttrack withstands George's attack and reacts to his attacks :​

Evidence

kevin gets behind george and stalls him a little bit and pulls his hair :​

Evidence

Gwen attacks george and damages him and george attacks gwen and gwen withstands it :​

Evidence

George was holding back here, you can see this from his casual movements and his dialogue at the end of the clip.

George fights ultimate Humungousaur :​

Evidence

For this one I’m gonna pretend this is an Ultimate Humungousaur upgrade thread and not a general character upgrade thread, as I don’t really have anything to say in that case.

So back when Ascalon was only High 5-A I would’ve wholeheartedly agreed with this, however now I’m not so sure. imo it makes very little sense for Ultimate Kevin to be any higher than High 5-A due to not having access to any DNA stronger than Way Big’s, which in turn means Ultimate Hugh’s battle with Kevin creates a massive contradiction. Maybe if you argued Kevin absorbed the Map of Infinity it would work (as Ultimate Hugh has shown himself able to scale to Addwaitya with the Alpha Rune in the past), however there’s no evidence for this beyond Ultimate Kevin being able to escape the Forge and would also make every Ultimate Hugh level character “possibly High 3-A” with pretty small amounts of evidence. While I can get behind this idea, you might need more evidence of Kevin having the Map’s power for any mods to agree.

Esoterica's avoid Sir George's attacks and deal damage to George :​

Evidence

This is a weird scene tbh. George kinda looks pathetic here even though he should be able to easily deal with them based on his other showings. He also isn’t really hurt here, he’s just pushed down so idk if this is really an instance of scaling. I guess there’s no concrete argument against it though (aside from scaling chain issues which I’ll get to later).

Humungousaur lucubra reacts and withstands attack from vilgax :​

Evidence

Characters taking attacks in Ben 10 is weird, as they’re consistently shown to be able to take hits from villains with killing intent who can no-sell their own. imo I don’t think a character should be scaling to another if there’s a clear power gap and the weaker character can’t do anything to the stronger one. I’ll be calling other instances of this “Ben 10 durability logic”, unless it’s done by a character logically holding back of course.

Gwen lucubra withstands the attack from vilgax :​

Evidence

Base Gwen should have a varies rating with magic imo

 

[Ghengiroo115]

2/?

Liam escapes the attack of Gwen's anodite form, attacks Psyphon's helpers with his anodite form and they withstand it :​

Evidence

Helen gives anodite Gwen the upper hand as the amalgam children escape Gwen's attacks :​

Evidence 1 2

Looma withstands the attack from Gwen :​

Evidence

The rock monster withstands the attack from Gwen :​

Evidence

So I don’t have any issue with the arguments themselves as Gwen is clearly portrayed as comparable to the other characters in these clips, however what I do have an issue with is how OV Anodite Gwen is treated in the verse in general. Every scene of Anodite Gwen in UAF shows a clear superiority between her and everyone else. Meanwhile in OV she feels and is portrayed as basically just as strong as base UAF Gwen. I didn’t realise how bad it was until I rewatched those clips but it just doesn’t make sense, so part of me is wondering whether OV Anodite Gwen should actually be considered as strong as UAF Anodite Gwen or if we just consider it some “partial awakening” kinda thing.

Also isn’t Gwen going full Anodite meant to be a big deal that can have permanent consequences on her humanity? Why is she casually using the form in basically every fight?

gwen attacks the Humungousaur with her anodite form and the Humungousaur withstands it :​

Evidence

Ben 10 durability logic, also Gwen was very casual with the swipe.

Atomix ultimate attacks Humungousaur and ultimate spider monkey, both withstand these blows :​

Evidence

Atomix is most likely just holding back here (especially for Spidermonkey), however you could maybe use this as support for 4-B Ultimate Humungousaur as he was completely fine after the second attack. Again though it might just be Atomix holding back.

MALWARE​

Feedback harms the fourth form of malware :​

Evidence

This is an interesting point, however this is just from Feedback absorbing Malware’s energy while inside him. The blast Feedback shoots out is much larger than his normal ones, and Fourth Form Malware is so strong that even if they downscaled from Way Big it would be pretty much impossible for any regular alien to harm him.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Wouldn’t this be circular scaling, since Base Gwen would be on the same level as her Anodite form, which is depicted as a huge amp?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

3/?

waybig attacks Trombipulor in base form and Trombipulor withstands it :
Evidence

​

Gwen reacts to Waybig's attack and survives for a while :​

Evidence

waybig ultimate spider monkey ultimate echo echo ultimate Swampfire ultimate Humungousaur ultimate Cannonbolt ultimate Big Chill waybig attacks them all and they withstand it :​

Evidence

These are all examples of Way Big just holding back, as he isn’t trying to kill any of these guys. Also Trombipulor’s clip is a gag and the sentient Ultimates couldn’t deal any damage to Way Big with their attacks.

Rath and Frankenstrike can escape waybig's attack and beam :​

Evidence

I know you didn’t mention it but just in case: Rath getting squashed by Way Big’s hand is Ben 10 durability logic, also he gets knocked out from it.

Shocksquatch escapes waybad's attack and survives :​

Evidence

Shocksquatch was casually flicked away by the Way Bad so it wasn’t a real attack.

TROMBİPULOR​

Goop attacks trombipulor deals damage and withstands trombipulor's blow echo echo defeats trombipulor with wall of sound :​

Evidence

Echo Echo defeated him by exploiting his sensitive hearing, but yeah the Goop stuff would be fine if not for scaling chain issues (again I’ll get to them later).

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Agree
Edit _: changing vote to nutral (Ghengiroo cooked)

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Wouldn’t this be circular scaling, since Base Gwen would be on the same level as her Anodite form, which is depicted as a huge amp?

I believe the argument is just that characters should be downscaling from top tiers, however even then I’m pretty sure there are scaling chain issues that makes it not work very well.

 

[Reiner04]

Wouldn’t this be circular scaling, since Base Gwen would be on the same level as her Anodite form, which is depicted as a huge amp?

Agree with this. Most of it will lead to circular scaling also it seems big out ov hands for regulars to have Tier 4 AP.

For this one I’m gonna pretend this is an Ultimate Humungousaur upgrade thread and not a general character upgrade thread, as I don’t really have anything to say in that case.

I personally would be fine with UA Humg to scale to him "At his peak/full potential or smth" not regularly, like we know DH nuked vilgax when got serious...

 

[zaraus]

I'm waiting for Ghengiroo115 to finish it, which of course will take some time, after all it's a long scaling

 

[Ghengiroo115]

4/?

Crashocker attacks Exo-Skull Exo-Skull withstands this attack :​

Evidence

Fourmungousaur battles Snare-oh And Rath :​

Evidence

Pretty sure this causes circular scaling issues as XLR8 10,000 effortlessly beat Exo-Skull in OS, and also Ben 10,000 has decades of training and experience so he should be much stronger than present Ben by default.

Max trades blows with future animo and defeats him :​

Evidence

Max wasn’t really attacked here, and he won by exploiting a weakness. At best this would be a Lifting Strength feat, but even then this is an older and likely weaker Max which causes circular scaling issues.

Spanner trades blows with Merlinisapien :​

Evidence

Exo Skull attacks Spanner and Spanner withstands the attack :​

Evidence

Spanner fights sunder twice :​

Evidence 1 2

This just tells me Spanner shouldn’t be High 5-A lol

But yeah there’s no issues here beyond scaling chain issues.

MALGAX​

Malgax trades blows with diamond head malgax defeats diamond head Whampire trades blows with malgax but malgax prevails Max can damage malgax with his gun and withstand his blow Armodrillo's arm damages malgax and blox's explosive bullets damage malgax and feedback absorbs energy and uses it physically and defeats malgax :​

Evidence 1 2 3

This is kinda the most blatant example of issues with the scaling chain. Ultimate Humungousaur is massively superior to Diamondhead, Atomix is massively superior to UH and Atomix had to use his strongest attack to even harm Malgax. Ben hurting Malgax with weaker aliens doesn’t make sense, and if I was to give a potential in-universe explanation I would say that Malgax is super arrogant and is only using as much power as is necessary.

The Feedback stuff is fine, but would just give his Striking Strength category “up to 4-B, possibly 4-A with absorption” as he’s amping his hands with electricity.

Rook and maltruant trade blows :​

Evidence

Rook is unable to deal any damage and also gets overwhelmed pretty quickly. Also leads to some major circular scaling issues as Maltruant is Atomic-X level while Rook is I’m pretty sure below Diamondhead level.

Maltruant trades blows with Kai and Gwen. Ben 10k trades blows with Maltruant :​

Evidence

Kai and Gwen scaling is fine as these are stronger future versions, however base Ben 10K scaling is weird given Atomic-X was also scaling. Probably an outlier for Ben.

 

[zaraus]

I personally would be fine with UA Humg to scale to him "At his peak/full potential or smth" not regularly, like we know DH nuked vilgax when got serious...

Chromastone had the power there, otherwise I think Diamond Head would not have been able to defeat Vilgax.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

5/5

STAR CORE :​

Evidence

Exo Skull takes the star core and attacks the techadons and the techadons withstand this attack and attack kevin and rook and they withstand it :​

Evidence

This is just Ben 10 durability logic. When Psyphon used it in an earlier episode he was able to effortlessly defeat Humungousaur, and Ben believed he couldn’t beat Psyphon in that state.

Eatle and julie trade blows :​

Evidence

Captain Nemesis attacks Eatle :​

Evidence

eatle attacks the rock monsters and the rock monsters withstand it :​

Evidence

Otto withstands the attack from Eatle :​

Evidence

Eatle gets massive power amps when he eats something, so I’m kinda confused on what the argument here is.

So overall I disagree with downscaling lower tiers to top tiers. There’s just way too big of an established power gap, and any instance that I otherwise don’t really have an argument for is contradicted by that scaling chain. I can support the idea of Ultimate Humungousaur scaling to George if there’s enough evidence that Ultimate Kevin is above High 5-A, but if there’s not then no.

 

[Aolphl]

It looks like this thread is going to be a pretty long thing

 

[zaraus]

George was holding back here, you can see this from his casual movements and his dialogue at the end of the clip.

So we can think that in that scene George attacks Fasttrack several times but Fasttrack avoids these attacks and as I said, Gwen does some damage in that scene.

For this one I’m gonna pretend this is an Ultimate Humungousaur upgrade thread and not a general character upgrade thread, as I don’t really have anything to say in that case.

So back when Ascalon was only High 5-A I would’ve wholeheartedly agreed with this, however now I’m not so sure. imo it makes very little sense for Ultimate Kevin to be any higher than High 5-A due to not having access to any DNA stronger than Way Big’s, which in turn means Ultimate Hugh’s battle with Kevin creates a massive contradiction. Maybe if you argued Kevin absorbed the Map of Infinity it would work (as Ultimate Hugh has shown himself able to scale to Addwaitya with the Alpha Rune in the past), however there’s no evidence for this beyond Ultimate Kevin being able to escape the Forge and would also make every Ultimate Hugh level character “possibly High 3-A” with pretty small amounts of evidence. While I can get behind this idea, you might need more evidence of Kevin having the Map’s power for any mods to agree.

this situation is actually not that confusing because both of them are ready to fight and it seems like they didn't feel anything against george's attack and we can take it as ultimate kevin and waybig also have dns, this was not shown to us of course, but we can take this situation as a given because he is absorbing the omnitrix and in this situation he does not have the luxury of making a choice, that is, he does not choose which dns to take, so kevin and waybig have dns and I think he only treats it as power because we have not seen any other feature

This is a weird scene tbh. George kinda looks pathetic here even though he should be able to easily deal with them based on his other showings. He also isn’t really hurt here, he’s just pushed down so idk if this is really an instance of scaling. I guess there’s no concrete argument against it though (aside from scaling chain issues which I’ll get to later).

In fact, before this scene, Dagon's seal is broken and he may have given power to the Esoterica just like he did to Vilgax.

Characters taking attacks in Ben 10 is weird, as they’re consistently shown to be able to take hits from villains with killing intent who can no-sell their own. imo I don’t think a character should be scaling to another if there’s a clear power gap and the weaker character can’t do anything to the stronger one. I’ll be calling other instances of this “Ben 10 durability logic”, unless it’s done by a character logically holding back of course.

We can take vilgax's only goal as killing them, after all, there is a previous grudge and after this situation, Humungousaur will withstand the attack of anodite, of course, I don't know how serious that attack is.

So I don’t have any issue with the arguments themselves as Gwen is clearly portrayed as comparable to the other characters in these clips, however what I do have an issue with is how OV Anodite Gwen is treated in the verse in general. Every scene of Anodite Gwen in UAF shows a clear superiority between her and everyone else. Meanwhile in OV she feels and is portrayed as basically just as strong as base UAF Gwen. I didn’t realise how bad it was until I rewatched those clips but it just doesn’t make sense, so part of me is wondering whether OV Anodite Gwen should actually be considered as strong as UAF Anodite Gwen or if we just consider it some “partial awakening” kinda thing.

Also isn’t Gwen going full Anodite meant to be a big deal that can have permanent consequences on her humanity? Why is she casually using the form in basically every fight?

Actually, yes, this situation is strange, but for now, this situation seems good, I think there is no problem.

Atomix is most likely just holding back here (especially for Spidermonkey), however you could maybe use this as support for 4-B Ultimate Humungousaur as he was completely fine after the second attack. Again though it might just be Atomix holding back.

He doesn't seem to be holding back here, after all, he just started using atomix and makes a pretty big attack, throws a mini sun that he can create and also makes an attack for the ultimate spider monkey, in which case he realizes that he will make such a dangerous attack and throws the gwen away, so he doesn't hold back here.

This is an interesting point, however this is just from Feedback absorbing Malware’s energy while inside him. The blast Feedback shoots out is much larger than his normal ones, and Fourth Form Malware is so strong that even if they downscaled from Way Big it would be pretty much impossible for any regular alien to harm him.

Yes, that makes sense, it might have absorbed the malware's energy while it was inside it.

These are all examples of Way Big just holding back, as he isn’t trying to kill any of these guys. Also Trombipulor’s clip is a gag and the sentient Ultimates couldn’t deal any damage to Way Big with their attacks.

actually waybig's only goal was to get out of there, so I don't know what the level of attack would have been, but I think this increases the situation of the ultimate Humungousaur and the ultimate spider monkey, and there benjamin was quite angry, and the blows that waybig made seemed to be harder than his previous battles against us, which benjamin took seriously.

I know you didn’t mention it but just in case: Rath getting squashed by Way Big’s hand is Ben 10 durability logic, also he gets knocked out from it.

I think you agreed with the speed scales so I won't go into it too much.

Shocksquatch was casually flicked away by the Way Bad so it wasn’t a real attack.

waybad is many times more angry than normal, so he never makes a random attack, but like most situations, we can take this situation as possible.

Echo Echo defeated him by exploiting his sensitive hearing, but yeah the Goop stuff would be fine if not for scaling chain issues (again I’ll get to them later).

I have no problem with this, but again, as I said, we can take it as "Possibility"

Max wasn’t really attacked here, and he won by exploiting a weakness. At best this would be a Lifting Strength feat, but even then this is an older and likely weaker Max which causes circular scaling issues.

Animo's purpose there was only to escape and for this he had to defeat Max, but yes, Max defeated him by thinking tactically, but he withstood his blow, I think we should consider this as a possibility.

Pretty sure this causes circular scaling issues as XLR8 10,000 effortlessly beat Exo-Skull in OS, and also Ben 10,000 has decades of training and experience so he should be much stronger than present Ben by default.

I won't go into this further, but I think there are too many feats to call them outliers, and this is one of them. We can close this topic by saying "possibly"

This just tells me Spanner shouldn’t be High 5-A lol

But yeah there’s no issues here beyond scaling chain issues.

Spanner is mostly dealing with small aliens and should be on par with the others in this regard.

This is kinda the most blatant example of issues with the scaling chain. Ultimate Humungousaur is massively superior to Diamondhead, Atomix is massively superior to UH and Atomix had to use his strongest attack to even harm Malgax. Ben hurting Malgax with weaker aliens doesn’t make sense, and if I was to give a potential in-universe explanation I would say that Malgax is super arrogant and is only using as much power as is necessary.

The Feedback stuff is fine, but would just give his Striking Strength category “up to 4-B, possibly 4-A with absorption” as he’s amping his hands with electricity.

He was shown to be stronger, but after all, aliens can rebel and Whampire doesn't have that many feats, especially with small aliens, and his fight with Malgax was better than Atomix's.

 

[zaraus]

The Feedback stuff is fine, but would just give his Striking Strength category “up to 4-B, possibly 4-A with absorption” as he’s amping his hands with electricity.

And yes, we can even scale the feedback to 1-B as a hitting power. I think it can physically use the energy it absorbs as a result.

Kai and Gwen scaling is fine as these are stronger future versions, however base Ben 10K scaling is weird given Atomic-X was also scaling. Probably an outlier for Ben

no problem

This is just Ben 10 durability logic. When Psyphon used it in an earlier episode he was able to effortlessly defeat Humungousaur, and Ben believed he couldn’t beat Psyphon in that state.

I think 4-C should be added to Rook and Kevin's future versions and EXO-SKULL

Eatle gets massive power amps when he eats something, so I’m kinda confused on what the argument here is.

Eatle fights without eating anything most of the time and can exchange blows.

 

[zaraus]

So overall I disagree with downscaling lower tiers to top tiers. There’s just way too big of an established power gap, and any instance that I otherwise don’t really have an argument for is contradicted by that scaling chain. I can support the idea of Ultimate Humungousaur scaling to George if there’s enough evidence that Ultimate Kevin is above High 5-A, but if there’s not then no.

It looks like this thread is going to be a pretty long thing

Actually, if we consider aliens as POSSIBLY in general, I think there will be no problem.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

OK so I want to preface this by explaining just how big the canonical gap between regular characters and the top tiers is, as it just occurred to me how big it is and it pretty much makes any kind of scaling to top tiers (beyond speed of course) impossible.

Ultimate Aggregor is 7x the strength of regular aliens, and that alone gave him enough power to no-sell hits from Humungousaur and easily defeat him. Ultimate Kevin is well over 7x as he effortlessly defeated Greg, and after absorbing Greg’s powers he became well over 13x. When you consider Ultimate Humungousaur’s 10x statement is becomes an even bigger gap, making Ultimate Kevin 10x full-size Humungousaur which is 50x. Every High 5-A and 4-B canonically scales above Ultimate Kevin in the lore, usually by a massive amount, so they’re all above that value. With just multipliers it’s already impossible for regular characters to scale to top tiers as the multiplier is just too big, and that’s even ignoring in-universe examples of characters not scaling like Rath being unable to damage Way Big or the aforementioned case of Humungousaur being unable to hurt Ultimate Aggregor. Scaling characters because they took one hit from a top tier just doesn’t line up with their canonical gap, no matter how bloodthirsty the top tier in question is.

So yeah I’ve decided I’m definitely against this idea, and I don’t think anything can really change my mind on this.

So we can think that in that scene George attacks Fasttrack several times but Fasttrack avoids these attacks and as I said, Gwen does some damage in that scene.

He’s holding back so any examples of a character maybe scaling is just because of that.

this situation is actually not that confusing because both of them are ready to fight and it seems like they didn't feel anything against george's attack and we can take it as ultimate kevin and waybig also have dns, this was not shown to us of course, but we can take this situation as a given because he is absorbing the omnitrix and in this situation he does not have the luxury of making a choice, that is, he does not choose which dns to take, so kevin and waybig have dns and I think he only treats it as power because we have not seen any other feature

My main point with this was that Way Big is the strongest thing in the Ultimatrix that Kevin could absorb at that time, which mean Ultimate Kevin can’t be anything higher than High 5-A. Since George is so much higher than that Ultimate Humungousaur can’t scale to him.

In fact, before this scene, Dagon's seal is broken and he may have given power to the Esoterica just like he did to Vilgax.

Maybe

Actually, yes, this situation is strange, but for now, this situation seems good, I think there is no problem.

There is a problem though. UAF Anodite Gwen is way stronger than Humungousaur while OV Anodite Gwen struggles against characters weaker than or comparable to Humungousaur. I don’t think it’s right to scale OV Anodite Gwen to UAF Anodite Gwen.

He doesn't seem to be holding back here, after all, he just started using atomix and makes a pretty big attack, throws a mini sun that he can create and also makes an attack for the ultimate spider monkey, in which case he realizes that he will make such a dangerous attack and throws the gwen away, so he doesn't hold back here.

Fair enough, he does use some pretty big attacks. However it should be noted that the attack is still strong enough to knock Ultimate Spidermonkey out, which means it’d be pretty dangerous to the others. Also Ultimate Humungousaur being as strong as he is means that full power Atomix would absolutely annihilate Ultimate Spidermonkey if he tried to.

waybad is many times more angry than normal, so he never makes a random attack, but like most situations, we can take this situation as possible.

It was a very casual and humour-based flick, so it definitely wasn’t one with an attempt to kill.

Animo's purpose there was only to escape and for this he had to defeat Max, but yes, Max defeated him by thinking tactically, but he withstood his blow, I think we should consider this as a possibility.

Eh, either Max is weaker than he is before or he’s (somehow) stronger. The first option means the fight makes no sense since Max would have no chance against a Four Arms-tier character, while the second option would mean regular characters can’t scale.

I won't go into this further, but I think there are too many feats to call them outliers, and this is one of them. We can close this topic by saying "possibly"

I don’t believe this is how possibly ratings work, those are for when a character has a concrete level but could maybe be higher (e.g 5-C, possibly Low 5-B). The lower end can still exist even with the higher end. In this case the lower end and higher end can’t be true at the same time.

He was shown to be stronger, but after all, aliens can rebel and Whampire doesn't have that many feats, especially with small aliens, and his fight with Malgax was better than Atomix's.

Whampire scaling is weird and inconsistent, but I was mainly speaking about Diamondhead, Armodrillo and Bloxx here.

I think 4-C should be added to Rook and Kevin's future versions and EXO-SKULL

It wouldn’t be 4-C since the Star Core is just a dwarf star, meaning it would be High 5-A. Exo-Skull could have it as a key or tabber on his profile though.

Eatle fights without eating anything most of the time and can exchange blows.

Usually yes, but all his good feats only come from after he eats stuff.

 

[zaraus]

He’s holding back so any examples of a character maybe scaling is just because of that.

attacking brutally is not much of a retreat, anyway, in terms of speed, they will all be at the same level anyway, I guess there is no need to say much.

My main point with this was that Way Big is the strongest thing in the Ultimatrix that Kevin could absorb at that time, which mean Ultimate Kevin can’t be anything higher than High 5-A. Since George is so much higher than that Ultimate Humungousaur can’t scale to him.

I think for now H5-A is also suitable for us, possibly we can take 4-B.

Maybe

possibly

There is a problem though. UAF Anodite Gwen is way stronger than Humungousaur while OV Anodite Gwen struggles against characters weaker than or comparable to Humungousaur. I don’t think it’s right to scale OV Anodite Gwen to UAF Anodite Gwen.

I think it won't be much of a problem, after all, the anodite form remains meaningless to restrict this form, it is best to take it at an equal level.

Fair enough, he does use some pretty big attacks. However it should be noted that the attack is still strong enough to knock Ultimate Spidermonkey out, which means it’d be pretty dangerous to the others. Also Ultimate Humungousaur being as strong as he is means that full power Atomix would absolutely annihilate Ultimate Spidermonkey if he tried to.

The explosion he will make is already big enough for this, the rest of it is moving away, and this blow was already strong enough to knock him down, and he knocked him down, and I still have in my mind to give possibly for every feat.

It was a very casual and humour-based flick, so it definitely wasn’t one with an attempt to kill.

this is actually yes I think it's a little bit the fault of the author, after all that character was completely enraged extra to kill and destroy and this was said 2 or 3 times I think I can get it out of my mind

Eh, either Max is weaker than he is before or he’s (somehow) stronger. The first option means the fight makes no sense since Max would have no chance against a Four Arms-tier character, while the second option would mean regular characters can’t scale.

In fact, the purpose of the scale is to scale everyone to each other, so I found all the feats that came to my mind and opened a huge crt. The reason I gave this example is that there is additional evidence here, of course, max is beaten tactically, but I characterise this situation as possibly.

This isn’t how possibly ratings work, those are for when a character has a concrete level but could maybe be higher (e.g 5-C, possibly Low 5-B). The lower end can still exist even with the higher end. In this case the lower end and higher end can’t be true at the same time.

I don't fully understand this, so I won't say anything.

Whampire scaling is weird and inconsistent, but I was mainly speaking about Diamondhead, Armodrillo and Bloxx here.

In fact, whampire does not have a feat with small aliens, so I think there is no problem in scaling to malgax, for others I can only suggest (possibly)

It wouldn’t be 4-C since the Star Core is just a dwarf star, meaning it would be High 5-A. Exo-Skull could have it as a key or tabber on his profile though.

this needs to be handled separately not only for exo skull but also for future rook and kevin

Usually yes, but all his good feats only come from after he eats stuff.

actually no the best feats are the physical ones, the ones with the best physical feats are the ones with the best physical feats when fighting with lucubra vilgax and julie.



I think that instead of constantly answering each other, let's present a possibility so that it will not be confusing and we will not be struggling. Who should be scaled for what in this crt? What I am suggesting is that we take most aliens as possible, and that we take H5-A possibly 4-B or 4-B possibly 4-A in the aliens that have concrete evidence, anyway, you present your own idea and let's be more detailed about the subject and the subject will not be prolonged.

 

[Köfteekmek]

i agree dude

 

[zaraus]

Bump

Instead of saying outlier for every situation, we can add it as possibly for most characters, after all, there are too many feats, it is ridiculous to call each one outlier.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

This feels like a lot of circular scaling sprinkled in with some inconsistencies (I’m looking at you estotrica) I’ll take a better look at this later

 

[zaraus]

BUMP 2X

 

[zaraus]

BUMP 3X

 

[Baabasaplar95]

Agree

 

[Aolphl]

Babaasaplar

 

[zaraus]

BUMP 4X

 

[zaraus]

Wouldn’t this be circular scaling, since Base Gwen would be on the same level as her Anodite form, which is depicted as a huge amp?

can you comment on this issue

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I disagree with the OP. Scaling everyone to the top tiers is circular scaling.

OK so I want to preface this by explaining just how big the canonical gap between regular characters and the top tiers is, as it just occurred to me how big it is and it pretty much makes any kind of scaling to top tiers (beyond speed of course) impossible.

Ultimate Aggregor is 7x the strength of regular aliens, and that alone gave him enough power to no-sell hits from Humungousaur and easily defeat him. Ultimate Kevin is well over 7x as he effortlessly defeated Greg, and after absorbing Greg’s powers he became well over 13x. When you consider Ultimate Humungousaur’s 10x statement is becomes an even bigger gap, making Ultimate Kevin 10x full-size Humungousaur which is 50x. Every High 5-A and 4-B canonically scales above Ultimate Kevin in the lore, usually by a massive amount, so they’re all above that value. With just multipliers it’s already impossible for regular characters to scale to top tiers as the multiplier is just too big, and that’s even ignoring in-universe examples of characters not scaling like Rath being unable to damage Way Big or the aforementioned case of Humungousaur being unable to hurt Ultimate Aggregor. Scaling characters because they took one hit from a top tier just doesn’t line up with their canonical gap, no matter how bloodthirsty the top tier in question is.

 

[zaraus]

I disagree with the OP. Scaling everyone to the top tiers is circular scaling.

I have a different proposition for this

I think that instead of constantly answering each other, let's present a possibility so that it will not be confusing and we will not be struggling. Who should be scaled for what in this crt? What I am suggesting is that we take most aliens as possible, and that we take H5-A possibly 4-B or 4-B possibly 4-A in the aliens that have concrete evidence, anyway, you present your own idea and let's be more detailed about the subject and the subject will not be prolonged.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think that instead of constantly answering each other, let's present a possibility so that it will not be confusing and we will not be struggling. Who should be scaled for what in this crt? What I am suggesting is that we take most aliens as possible, and that we take H5-A possibly 4-B or 4-B possibly 4-A in the aliens that have concrete evidence, anyway, you present your own idea and let's be more detailed about the subject and the subject will not be prolonged.

No.

Now that Anodite Gwen and Sir George are Tier 4 every alien scaling to them would just be a huge outlier by default.

 

[zaraus]

No.

Now that Anodite Gwen and Sir George are Tier 4 every alien scaling to them would just be a huge outlier by default.

there's a lot more to it and we can still talk about it, like the fact that Whampire is more powerful than Atomix.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

No.

Now that Anodite Gwen and Sir George are Tier 4 every alien scaling to them would just be a huge outlier by default.

Wild