Black Clover Licht's problems

[Ryuga21]

Why are we assuming his durability isn't comparable to his AP ? Do we have a sentence claiming he wouldn't survive it?

Because a character weaker than his strongest attack could kill him. You is really ignoring King's arguments.

 

[Ryuga21]

Ant agreed with Mitch and said that OP makes sense. Dragonmasterxyz really showed no signs of fully agreeing with the final conclusion.

 

[Rocker1189]

I am agreeing as well btw.

 

[Ryuga21]

For me this can already be applied, before it becomes a mess and endless discussion. Most members are in favor which includes an staff member.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Because a character weaker than his strongest attack could kill him. You is really ignoring King's arguments.

That doesn't prove anything though. And for the third time, all of this is assuming that Lumiere wouldn't be able to block the attack. Heck, he didn't even said he couldn't

You are really ignoring my arguments

 

[Epsilon_R]

Ant agreed with Mitch and said that OP makes sense. Dragonmasterxyz really showed no signs of fully agreeing with the final conclusion.

He never agreed with Mitch, he just said that his proposal of finding other calcs makes sense

 

[ShadowGun45]

call them here again

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Good lord I do not care enough about this.

But I only disagree with the likes of Yami, Noelle and those below scaling to this. I only agree with Word Devil, Black Asta, Licht, Lumiere, Julius and Spirit Dive Yuno scaling. No one else. I agreed with Epsilon's comment for people scaling and that's it. I never agreed with the OP nor agreed with everyone being downgraded, simple as that. I am just flat out not invested in this (I don't have the time to go through text walls of arguments all day long. It's needlessly draining), but I kept getting bugged about it. So there's my opinion. I'm done here.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I just want some solid reasoning that the Word Devil scales to Demon Licht, I'm not opposed to it, I just want the main basis for why they scale to each other

Because no one has provided me with that info yet

 

[Rocker1189]

^^^^Same

 

[KingOFG]

There is no concrete proof that they are comparable. And I believe that no one will be able to show it.

 

[KingOFG]

For me this can already be applied, before it becomes a mess and endless discussion. Most members are in favor which includes an staff member.

It's been two weeks since I created the post. Most people agree but I will still wait until the end of the day to add that.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@KingOFG

Hold on, this isn't finalized yet, Dragonmaster just said he has a different opinion, so this isn't settled

@Epsilon R

Can you give me reasoning as to why the Word Devil should scale to or above Demon Licht, with legit reasoning, I could agree to them scaling fully or even a possibly

 

[Duedate8898]

For the Word Devil, there is never any direct comparison between him and demon Licht. However it is noted constantly that the Word Devil himself is far and above all the rest in his battle with Yuno, Asta, Patry, Licht, and Lumiere in terms of mana amount and Yami notes during his battle with the Word Devil that his spells grow stronger the more Mana he puts within them. While this doesn't set the Word Devil up with Demon Licht it does put him above the rest of those involved in his battle, one of which was capable of combating Demon Licht. And once again, said demon would have to survive his own attack since he's naturally within the blast radius of said attack.

That's what I found

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That's some good reasoning, maybe he can get a Likely Low 6-B, not certain, but he should be comparable

 

[AstralKing7]

Licht's calc needs to be remade anyway with vaporization from the anime since it was confirmed. I was planning on asking Tata if he could make a new calc

Also I'm going to make a new crt for the scaling whenever I get time. I realized that some characters have higher durability then others who they share similar AP with

 

[Epsilon_R]

I also found this

What we get from this is that it's the Word Devil that filled Licht with negative mana (he also said that if he takes more negative mana, he will become like the Devil), he then used magic stones to become the mindless demon, preventing the WD from controlling his body. Basically, since Demon Licht's attack was charged with the mana that WD fill him with, it's like it was him that made the attack

 

[Epsilon_R]

Licht's calc needs to be remade anyway with vaporization from the anime since it was confirmed. I was planning on asking Tata if he could make a new calc

First, ask DMUA if we can actually use vaporization because I did the same calc using Vaporization/Pulverizatio but he said we couldn't use it

 

[AstralKing7]

Because it didn't have too much evidence. The anime confirms it as vaporization last month when the episode dropped

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

ƒñ¡

 

[Limit-breaker9910]

Shouldn't Noelle scale to asta and yuno before they got black divider and SOZ?

 

[Rocker1189]

And once again, said demon would have to survive his own attack since he's naturally within the blast radius of said attack.

I disagree with this, said demon was practically suicidal due to not wanting to be a demon in the first place, and there is not statement that he would survive the attack, speaking of which this goes back to my very first issue with the Low 6-B expecting that he would nuke the entire country instead of the just the capital which would mean that he wont have to survive the attack in the first place and which would also not be a massive outlier compared to every other feat in the verse so far.

 

[Epsilon_R]

By the way, Ant said he follows Dragon's opinion

Recap:

Every one goes back to 7-B except for Asta, Dark Elf Patry, Yuno, Zeno and maybe Julius?

Noelle should downscale to High 6-C I guess

Idk about Yami

 

[AstralKing7]

I disagree with that. Licth didn't have any control over hismelf at all. Saying he intended to kill himself and the country makes no sense considering the fact that you say he is in control since he is suicidal, even though he doesn't want to harm the country. But he is still using an attack that will destroy everything including himself.

Also the feat isn't accepted as an outlier.

Secondly I'm pretty sure when it was stated to destroy the whole country it meant the whole country not the capital and that truly is nitpicking.

 

[KingOFG]

For the Word Devil, there is never any direct comparison between him and demon Licht. However it is noted constantly that the Word Devil himself is far and above all the rest in his battle with Yuno, Asta, Patry, Licht, and Lumiere in terms of mana amount and Yami notes during his battle with the Word Devil that his spells grow stronger the more Mana he puts within them. While this doesn't set the Word Devil up with Demon Licht it does put him above the rest of those involved in his battle, one of which was capable of combating Demon Licht. And once again, said demon would have to survive his own attack since he's naturally within the blast radius of said attack.

That's what I found

None of this implies scaling with Demon Licht. Demon Licht is superior to base Licht which is comparable to Lumiere. The same Lumiere who have fear of Demon Licht's strongest attack. Besides that, I don't remember Kotodama fodderizing Lumiere or Licht, hr was just fight with they two with hax. Kotodama was just absurdly superior to Yami, the other elves, Asta and Yuno.

 

[Duedate8898]

We actually lack any form of scaling that say that Licht and Lumiere scale to one another. Hell, the fact that Lumiere is shown combating someone who should be supierior to base Licht would support him being stronger than said base Licht. And when Yami made his compariosn, Licht was at the top of the list below the Word Devil.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Not only that, but the latest chapter tells us that Zagred (Word Devil) is among the highest ranking Devils

 

[KingOFG]

Lumiere was being defeated by Licht and did no significant damage to him until he let it happen.

Licht isn't a Devil like him.

 

[Epsilon_R]

So now you are saying Demon Licht isn't a demon when Zagred himself says so?

This is getting ridiculous

 

[Ionliosite]

Not only that, but the latest chapter tells us that Zagred (Word Devil) is among the highest ranking Devils

^^ This would mean Zagred > Litch, wouldn't it?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

If Zagred is among the highest ranking demons, she should at least be comparable to Demon Licht, I'm ok with him scaling now that it's said he's a high ranking demon, but he should lose the at least

 

[Peter1129]

Demon Licht is Licht + Zagred + magic stones though. Also Zagred isn't a highest ranking Devil he's just high ranked. The devils possessed by the Dark Triad are the highest ranked ones.

 

[KingOFG]

So now you are saying Demon Licht isn't a demon when Zagred himself says so?
This is getting ridiculous

"Like him". Licht is a completely different demon.

 

[AstralKing7]

If Zagred is among the highest ranking demons, she should at least be comparable to Demon Licht, I'm ok with him scaling now that it's said he's a high ranking demon, but he should lose the at least

I'm fine with this honestly

 

[Epsilon_R]

"Like him". Licht is a completely different demon.

????

So, what? Idek what you mean by "like him"

 

[KingOFG]

Demon Licht is Licht + Zagred + magic stones though.

 

[Duedate8898]

I actually have to disagree with the idea. Since we actually saw how the Word Devil makes dark elves.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Bump

 

[Ionliosite]

How much does the magic stone amp his power? Because from what I can see, that quote means Zagred scales to roughly half of Demon Licht.

 

[Ryuga21]

Scales to 1/3 and we don't know the scale what the magic stones buff someone.