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Do you have any thoughts on the Garganta fulfilling vsbw standards for being universal in size?
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Unfortunately no, Im not as knowledgeable as the others.
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Okay so before I address the response Arc made, I will be responding to the earlier arguments Hasch gave against me.
Considering the fact that no one but you has brought this point up about Ichibe’s claim, it's not even that much ironclad as evidence compared to Jugram’s statement, which is already on the chopping block as you can see here. Still, let’s address it.
Just like Jugrams statement, this is also inconsistent and not given as much support as you think it gets. Just as the original post already laid out, the dimensional quaking across the worlds did not happen a single time, or on any level, when Yhwach was killed by Ichigo 2x. And yes, incase it needs to be clarified, those count as deaths because Yhwach the first time had to REWRITE his first death with the Almighty to come back, which shows he was killed for a moment thanks to Aizen and Ichigo’s tag team work. Meaning, that was a true death, even if for a few moments. This should have restarted the dimensional quaking just like it happened with the Soul King and Mimihagi's death's. I will acknowledge that while its good that another statement was brought to back up Jugram, there's still something you're not acknowledging as an issue here.
We are Feats >>> Statements. At the end of the day, when it comes down to Portrayals vs Statements, portrayals are taken as the priority, because that's where consistency comes the most. Again, let's not make this into a “Sky is called red vs Sky is seen Blue'' debate, because the only way you are getting these statements to have validity here is by ignoring portrayal. And doing that is being intellectually dishonest.
"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."
"The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living."
"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."
"Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."
Unless the thread where these quotes came from uses misinformation of some kind, or this is talking about something different from what I'm seeing, the quote’s very clearly allude to the idea that the flow of souls existed from the very beginning in the old universe. What simply happened is that the cycle ushered in “a new era” when the old universe was split into the worlds we know as of now in the Bleach Cosmology. It doesn’t mean the cycle never existed in the first place.
Besides, even if this was the case, I'm ultimately not understanding why this would matter here. The Soul King never stabilized the worlds until he became a lynchpin, which happened after the creation of the worlds. Even if the existence of the soul cycle did not come to be until the splitting of the old universe, Reio being linked to the flow of souls would still very possibly be a thing to happen here.
Okay this is fine. How exactly does this mean that the user’s attack potency and raw power is being directly applied into any and everything said abilities do? We know they’re “reiatsu based” because soul hax is the main bread and butter of abilities in Bleach. Has nothing to do with attack potency regularly applying. Ichigo being mentioned also has nothing to do with this point, so i'm also failing to see why he was brought up here.
Also, as a smaller sidenote, but you arguing this is just opening up the floodgates that results in hax abilities in Bleach being centered and limited around attack potency. But im sure you or no one else would like for this already in-depth discussion to go off course to discuss something like this, so i’ll just leave this point here at that.
Except no, it wasn’t? It was a statement made from Tokinada’s father about what the death of the Soul King would do to the world’s, which was why Warren tried pointing it out as a counter argument in the first place.
The point about “a casual use of it will never be greater than a focused attack” literally and completely doesn’t matter at this point when dealing with Tiers 3 and above. Or more specifically, 3-A, Low 2-C, and tiers above them. Why? Because now, we are dealing with tiers that involve infinite energy where things cannot be quantifiably divided like they could in tiers like 6-A or 5-B. Low 2-C power will always continually be Low 2-C, no matter how much it is divided into smaller amounts. Dividing it in half? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by hundreds? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by billions of times? Sextillion amount of times? Power used at 0.0000000000000001%? It is still Low 2-C, period. The only differing factor here is that these lower amounts of Low 2-C power are unquantifiably lower the more it is divided up. But it’s not going to be so much weaker upon division that it drops out of the tier. This is the basics to how Low 2-C works and why downscaling from Low 2-C is very much a thing on this site to cement characters scaling to the tier, even if just lower to unknown extents.
So in the case of Bleach here, where your side is still adamant on keeping the Weakened Soul King’s sustenance feat Low 2-C, this is the same thing. The Reiatsu would still be Low 2-C levels of power, no matter how much unquantifiably lower the divided pieces of Reiatsu would become. Reio’s gremlin monsters and the remnant of Yhwach’s Reiatsu would still be using Low 2-C power under this premise, they would just simply be much weaker than the total sum of Low 2-C power that Yhwach and Weakened Reio would have at once. So in order to even be in the presence of these Reiatsu pieces without so much as getting vaporized, much less be able to combat and destroy them, you would need to be Low 2-C still in order to do that. It’s as simple as that.
So this, again, returns to my earlier argument. Either characters as weak as Kazui to as strong as Byakuya become Low 2-C for being able to combat and destroy Low 2-C Reiatsu, or the Reiatsu being Low 2-C offensively is just much too inconsistent to be used at those levels. The choice here is yours.
And keep in mind, this is under the assumption that the Reiatsu would be Low 2-C in the first place, which the many points given here explains why it shouldn't.
Being the void between the universes has nothing to do with it’s size being infinite. You know universes & dimensions in fiction can be separated by physical distances right? Dragon Ball Super’s Multiverse can tell you that much with how it’s treated here these days.
The original post brought up Silver Arrow as an anti-feat against Yhwach’s stats scaling to the upgrades because it physically penetrated him and we don't consider the Silver Arrow’s power Low 2-C, which makes it suspicious.
Warren’s counter argument tried to debunk this by arguing that the arrow entered Yhwach via Uryu using Antithesis to transport it into him, which would be a counter to it being physically shot through Yhwach.
I gave a counter argument against Warren’s to prove Uryu didnt and couldnt have used the Antithesis and just simply shot the arrow at Yhwach, which leads us back to square 1 on the original post’s argument. We know the Silver Arrow is PIS against the Almighty’s power; The point is that its an anti feat against Yhwach’s statistics from being this strong.
Counters for Hasch’s Argument:
Points I disagree with:
Yhwach Stabilizing The Worlds (Again)
Considering the fact that no one but you has brought this point up about Ichibe’s claim, it's not even that much ironclad as evidence compared to Jugram’s statement, which is already on the chopping block as you can see here. Still, let’s address it.
Just like Jugrams statement, this is also inconsistent and not given as much support as you think it gets. Just as the original post already laid out, the dimensional quaking across the worlds did not happen a single time, or on any level, when Yhwach was killed by Ichigo 2x. And yes, incase it needs to be clarified, those count as deaths because Yhwach the first time had to REWRITE his first death with the Almighty to come back, which shows he was killed for a moment thanks to Aizen and Ichigo’s tag team work. Meaning, that was a true death, even if for a few moments. This should have restarted the dimensional quaking just like it happened with the Soul King and Mimihagi's death's. I will acknowledge that while its good that another statement was brought to back up Jugram, there's still something you're not acknowledging as an issue here.
We are Feats >>> Statements. At the end of the day, when it comes down to Portrayals vs Statements, portrayals are taken as the priority, because that's where consistency comes the most. Again, let's not make this into a “Sky is called red vs Sky is seen Blue'' debate, because the only way you are getting these statements to have validity here is by ignoring portrayal. And doing that is being intellectually dishonest.
Flow of Souls Existing Before The Worlds
I'm just going to drop these quotes here before addressing this. I’ll be asking you all to pay attention to what's been bolded out please. And these quotes, by the way, come from the thread that got accepted and made the Soul King 4-A to begin with:"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."
"The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living."
"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."
"Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era."
Unless the thread where these quotes came from uses misinformation of some kind, or this is talking about something different from what I'm seeing, the quote’s very clearly allude to the idea that the flow of souls existed from the very beginning in the old universe. What simply happened is that the cycle ushered in “a new era” when the old universe was split into the worlds we know as of now in the Bleach Cosmology. It doesn’t mean the cycle never existed in the first place.
Besides, even if this was the case, I'm ultimately not understanding why this would matter here. The Soul King never stabilized the worlds until he became a lynchpin, which happened after the creation of the worlds. Even if the existence of the soul cycle did not come to be until the splitting of the old universe, Reio being linked to the flow of souls would still very possibly be a thing to happen here.
Bleach Hax Abilities Being “Reiatsu Based”
Okay this is fine. How exactly does this mean that the user’s attack potency and raw power is being directly applied into any and everything said abilities do? We know they’re “reiatsu based” because soul hax is the main bread and butter of abilities in Bleach. Has nothing to do with attack potency regularly applying. Ichigo being mentioned also has nothing to do with this point, so i'm also failing to see why he was brought up here.
Also, as a smaller sidenote, but you arguing this is just opening up the floodgates that results in hax abilities in Bleach being centered and limited around attack potency. But im sure you or no one else would like for this already in-depth discussion to go off course to discuss something like this, so i’ll just leave this point here at that.
Counter-Point: “Except that CFYOW statement is about Ywach final attack and not the earthquake from the previous chapters.”
Except no, it wasn’t? It was a statement made from Tokinada’s father about what the death of the Soul King would do to the world’s, which was why Warren tried pointing it out as a counter argument in the first place.
Offensive Reiryoku & Reiatsu & Yhwach / Reio Reiatsu Remnants
Okay, let’s get something clear here first so that everyone reading through this will be able to understand.The point about “a casual use of it will never be greater than a focused attack” literally and completely doesn’t matter at this point when dealing with Tiers 3 and above. Or more specifically, 3-A, Low 2-C, and tiers above them. Why? Because now, we are dealing with tiers that involve infinite energy where things cannot be quantifiably divided like they could in tiers like 6-A or 5-B. Low 2-C power will always continually be Low 2-C, no matter how much it is divided into smaller amounts. Dividing it in half? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by hundreds? It’s Low 2-C. Divided by billions of times? Sextillion amount of times? Power used at 0.0000000000000001%? It is still Low 2-C, period. The only differing factor here is that these lower amounts of Low 2-C power are unquantifiably lower the more it is divided up. But it’s not going to be so much weaker upon division that it drops out of the tier. This is the basics to how Low 2-C works and why downscaling from Low 2-C is very much a thing on this site to cement characters scaling to the tier, even if just lower to unknown extents.
So in the case of Bleach here, where your side is still adamant on keeping the Weakened Soul King’s sustenance feat Low 2-C, this is the same thing. The Reiatsu would still be Low 2-C levels of power, no matter how much unquantifiably lower the divided pieces of Reiatsu would become. Reio’s gremlin monsters and the remnant of Yhwach’s Reiatsu would still be using Low 2-C power under this premise, they would just simply be much weaker than the total sum of Low 2-C power that Yhwach and Weakened Reio would have at once. So in order to even be in the presence of these Reiatsu pieces without so much as getting vaporized, much less be able to combat and destroy them, you would need to be Low 2-C still in order to do that. It’s as simple as that.
So this, again, returns to my earlier argument. Either characters as weak as Kazui to as strong as Byakuya become Low 2-C for being able to combat and destroy Low 2-C Reiatsu, or the Reiatsu being Low 2-C offensively is just much too inconsistent to be used at those levels. The choice here is yours.
And keep in mind, this is under the assumption that the Reiatsu would be Low 2-C in the first place, which the many points given here explains why it shouldn't.
Garganta Being Infinite
I'll be addressing the Garganta more in my response to Arc, but i'll say this here.Being the void between the universes has nothing to do with it’s size being infinite. You know universes & dimensions in fiction can be separated by physical distances right? Dragon Ball Super’s Multiverse can tell you that much with how it’s treated here these days.
Uryu and Antithesis
I….don't think you quite understand the purpose of the Silver Arrow argument here in this thread.The original post brought up Silver Arrow as an anti-feat against Yhwach’s stats scaling to the upgrades because it physically penetrated him and we don't consider the Silver Arrow’s power Low 2-C, which makes it suspicious.
Warren’s counter argument tried to debunk this by arguing that the arrow entered Yhwach via Uryu using Antithesis to transport it into him, which would be a counter to it being physically shot through Yhwach.
I gave a counter argument against Warren’s to prove Uryu didnt and couldnt have used the Antithesis and just simply shot the arrow at Yhwach, which leads us back to square 1 on the original post’s argument. We know the Silver Arrow is PIS against the Almighty’s power; The point is that its an anti feat against Yhwach’s statistics from being this strong.
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YH at that point when the arrow was used was non corporeal
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Actual question about that, why do we consider Yhwach non-corporeal at that point?
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Just to respond to this real quick, this doesnt help your argument either. Worsens it if anything.
Because if the Reiatsu is Low 2-C, and Yhwach became a mass of said Low 2-C spiritual energy, the arrow even being in its general vicinity wouldve been destroyed by the sheer force of it.
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I never said it being a void = it being infinite... as far as the second part of your statement it doesn't apply to my post at all.
My question is do you agree that the Garganta meets vsbw standards for being universal in size yes or no?
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Now to address Arc’s recent response.
The Argument Regarding Garganta
Let's get this point out the way first because I don't want Arc and everyone else getting the wrong idea about what my counter argument against Garganta’s size was actually addressing here.
My argument wasn’t going against the idea that Garganta was a cosmic sized structure. Or by how Arc describes it, a 3-A sized one. My counters outright acknowledge the Garganta being that big, and the original argument didn't seem to go against it when listing the issues with Garganta either. I think I can say that everyone on both sides is fine with Garganta being universal in size, since we now have currently accepted the worlds in Bleach being universe sized, and with Garganta literally encompassing all of the worlds in bleach, it being a vast cosmic sized structure is an understatement and quite obvious.
The point that my counter argument was addressing wasn’t Garganta being universal in size, but infinite in size. As in, an outright infinite-sized realm. The matter of the infinite souls statement I already addressed at length at why im opposed to it, so I wont address it here again. And as for Aura’s statements, the translations themselves aren’t my concern here, but the context behind them is. As in, how Aura knows exactly it’s infinite. I explained this already, so i’ll copy and paste it.
Why is it that we reject Hueco Mundo being endless in size all because of someone wandering through a vastly big desert making that claim, but Garganta doesn't get scrutinized by that very same logic? How does Aura know it's infinite? She just wandered around inside of it to come to that conclusion? What's stopping us from just saying she says “infinite” because it's just a vast structure? The Garganta literally encompasses, what we now consider to be, entire universes. It's FAR FAR bigger than Hueco Mundo’s “endless” desert that you guys yourselves agreed on not making literally endless. It’s quite clearly a vast cosmic structure that's astronomically beyond what can be perceived. So what makes the Garganta different from Hueco Mundo? We shouldnt be accepting one as infinite for the exact opposite reason of why we don't consider the other endless.
The size of Garganta & the worlds ultimately never had much to do with this at all from what I gather, just the matter of the Garganta being outright infinite in size. And for the reasons given before and now, that shouldn’t be the case.
The Argument Regarding Garganta
Let's get this point out the way first because I don't want Arc and everyone else getting the wrong idea about what my counter argument against Garganta’s size was actually addressing here.
My argument wasn’t going against the idea that Garganta was a cosmic sized structure. Or by how Arc describes it, a 3-A sized one. My counters outright acknowledge the Garganta being that big, and the original argument didn't seem to go against it when listing the issues with Garganta either. I think I can say that everyone on both sides is fine with Garganta being universal in size, since we now have currently accepted the worlds in Bleach being universe sized, and with Garganta literally encompassing all of the worlds in bleach, it being a vast cosmic sized structure is an understatement and quite obvious.
The point that my counter argument was addressing wasn’t Garganta being universal in size, but infinite in size. As in, an outright infinite-sized realm. The matter of the infinite souls statement I already addressed at length at why im opposed to it, so I wont address it here again. And as for Aura’s statements, the translations themselves aren’t my concern here, but the context behind them is. As in, how Aura knows exactly it’s infinite. I explained this already, so i’ll copy and paste it.
Why is it that we reject Hueco Mundo being endless in size all because of someone wandering through a vastly big desert making that claim, but Garganta doesn't get scrutinized by that very same logic? How does Aura know it's infinite? She just wandered around inside of it to come to that conclusion? What's stopping us from just saying she says “infinite” because it's just a vast structure? The Garganta literally encompasses, what we now consider to be, entire universes. It's FAR FAR bigger than Hueco Mundo’s “endless” desert that you guys yourselves agreed on not making literally endless. It’s quite clearly a vast cosmic structure that's astronomically beyond what can be perceived. So what makes the Garganta different from Hueco Mundo? We shouldnt be accepting one as infinite for the exact opposite reason of why we don't consider the other endless.
The size of Garganta & the worlds ultimately never had much to do with this at all from what I gather, just the matter of the Garganta being outright infinite in size. And for the reasons given before and now, that shouldn’t be the case.
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I think Kukui's response to Hasch makes sense.
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This wasnt in response to you Arc. This was in response to what Hasch said to me.
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If that was your issue then as I explained in my previous post it was poor communication on my end. All I argue is that the Garganta qualifies for 3-A size, but we all agree on that right? If so I'll get into my next point.
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Honestly the Garganta is probably like building sized at best 
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This is a 100% correct. ovoHonestly the Garganta is probably like building sized at best
Jokes aside, 3-A sized Garganta as I said before should be very much okay.
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Also now that I think about it shouldn't we wait? The tier 2 (and I think 3) is being revise so shouldn't we wait till that gets resolved since is one of the things being argued here?
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That Tier 2 CRT shouldn't even be happening right now, it's way too big to deal with right now, I mean many members have restarted school and therefore won't be able to give ample time to discuss such a huge site wide revision, I mean that thread effects numerous verses of all different kinds
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I'm still not gonna bother arguing it if it's gonna change down the line, I'll come back to it if I still think it fits.
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So we arguing for tier 3 then? Given tier 2 could be subject to change
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To be honest after rereading the chapter I don't think that Yhwach himself was non-coporeal at that time. Was he surrounded by a mass of Reiatsu? Yes. But I don't think that means his fleshy body was non-corporeal inside of that. I don't think there's any strong way of proving it, since it's not like the final battle had much explanation to go with it.
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The original post's point wasnt that Uryu does or doesnt scale. It was talking about the arrows strength, not Uryus.
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If the arrows only feat is piercing Yhwach then it scales to Yhwach. The arrow has no set stats prior to piercing Yhwach because it is featless. So, when it gets its first feat that is what it scales to, which so happens to be piercing Yhwach. It'd be like me saying Dangai Ichigo harming Aizen is an anti-feat. Both the Silver Arrow and Dangai Ichigo have no feats prior to their introductory battle, Dangai Ichigo cuts Aizen, the arrow pierces Yhwach, so just as Dangai Ichigo scales to Aizen, the arrow scales to Yhwach, but I digress.
Now I want to address Ganju's statement about the Garganta and if his word should be considered valid or not. For this portion I only want to talk if Ganju's statement is valid, I am not going to address how this affects (or if it does affect) scaling until we come to an agreement on his quote's meaning. To repeat I am only discussing the statement, no scaling (yet).
Ganju's Statement (sounds like I'm putting this man on trial)
- Ganju says, "if we lose, Garganta will be gone too!!"
- Ganju is a Shiba, a member of one of the Noble Houses within Bleach that despite being exiled from nobility, still works directly with Squad Zero. Throughout CFYOW we discover that in terms of who's qualified to speak on the machinations of the Soul King it goes: Nobility (they have access to a special library and have been historically the closest to the Soul King and Squad Zero), Captains and certain seated officers (were divulged information due to being directly in the war and weren't given any censored information regarding the war), and finally commoners and fodder Shinigami (were informed of a falsified version of the events of the war). Due to Ganju being of nobility and being in direct contact with Squad Zero, he is one of the more credible sources for receiving information involving the Soul King.
- When Ganju makes his claim he is in the presence of Yoruichi, as she was launched with them to Reiokyu. Yoruichi is a member of the Shihoin Noble family and closest friend (debatably romantic partner) of Kisuke. Kisuke is someone who we discover at the end of the Deicide chapters is aware of the Soul King and its purpose. This is important because Yoruichi being a non-exiled royal family member and someone who works directly with Kisuke would be even more qualified (if not one of the most qualified) individuals to comment on the nature of the Soul King, and she does not interrupt or contradict Ganju. Silence is acquiescence and Yoruichi not correcting Ganju is equivalent to silent affirmation of Ganju's statement.
- I want to also address that only Ganju insinuates that the Garganta will be destroyed as a falsehood. Here and here Yhwach and Ichibe imply that not just the three realms, but everything connected (which includes the Garganta) will collapse. So while they don't inherently make the same claim as Ganju, they still indirectly support Ganju's claim. Also, Ichigo being someone well adept at sensory capabilities since the beginning of the series (he learned the spirit ribbon search on his first try) doesn't question the claims either, and comments that the fight will be dangerous as if to support Ganju's notion.
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Okay, thank you again Arc for giving time to post and contribute to this as always.
I will be formulating a response soon.
I will be formulating a response soon.
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I don't think the Garganta Size and Uryu's Arrow are the main core of the arguments against the upgrades, it's the stabilization stuff and it being done by the Almighty
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Agreed. I'm not particularly interested in the Garganta's size or Uryu's arrow (though I feel this latter one is somewhat relevant).
The main issue surrounding the Garganta is that the collapse of the Garganta would have naturally happened anyway with the collapse of Soul Society, and that we don't have any proof that Yhwach was going to destroy the Garganta himself.
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I'm going to address how the Garganta's collapse affects scaling later. I just want to establish that A) we accept the Garganta is universal in size and B) that it was going to be destroyed. If we all agree on A and B, I can move on. From what I gather we have 2 staff that agree that the Garganta was going to be destroyed for some reason or another.
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@Arc7Kuroi I don't think anyone can fully agree with you until we see your full argument
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Well as of now the only claims I've made are:
- The Garganta is at least a universe in size as per vsbw standards (this as been agreed upon)
- The Garganta was going to be destroyed as per Ganju's statement (I'm not asking if you think Yhwach is going to destroy it just if it is going to be destroyed)
I'm going point by point of my argument so we can address things in a logical order with a flow that keeps things concise. As my arguments progresses linearly, if the base is debunked then so everything else. So I have to establish these two points before I argue scaling.
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So are we not discussing about the OP and other related stuff that were the reasons of the current ratings? Because you seem to be moving on a completely unrelated topic that had no bearing in the previous thread or this OP.
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Did you read your own OP? You mention Ganju's quote so I'm addressing the OP. How is the discussing Bleach cosmology unrelated to the god tiers?
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Snarky? That was not a snarky comment. I was just asking a relevant question.
How about you actually post your complete argument here so everyone can take one look at it as a whole and decide for themselves instead of asking one question after another that has nothing to do with the current justification of the current ratings. It's not a discord debate happening in real time, you know.
How about you actually post your complete argument here so everyone can take one look at it as a whole and decide for themselves instead of asking one question after another that has nothing to do with the current justification of the current ratings. It's not a discord debate happening in real time, you know.
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Nope I'm going to go point by point. Whenever I post my whole argument it is always the case that it isn't addressed in its entirety. So by going point by point I force you to respond to each point. This is how debating works, I'm not baiting you into answers.
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I mean maybe in a voice chat debate, but on the forums, you pretty much have to lay your full argument out on the table, or else people won't be able to properly follow your argument, and Kukui has addressed everything you talked about in his full argument when he posts it
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If I don't lay things out point by point I won't have any basis to form my other arguments, as I'd have to assume that you all agree on some points. I don't want to assume.
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Like I said, this is not a discord debate happening in real time. People have different time zones and different days when they are active. We are not gonna take consensus of all the people trying to inspect this thread, one question at a time. You can just post your complete argument so it's easier for people to follow whenever they open the thread to understand your entire argument in one go. Otherwise this seems like unnecessary stalling with points that are not even relevant to the current justifications.
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Huh? Im sorry? IDK about others here, but what parts of your arguments did I not address Arc?
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You brought up Ganju's quote -> I am addressing Ganju's quote. These are very relevant to the thread.
So far you've entirely addressed my point on Garganta's size and are going to address my point on Ganju's quote as you've said, so you're doing fine. If we agree that the Garganta is going to be destroyed, I'll move on to scaling (the meat of discussion).
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@Arc7Kuroi; how about you just move on to the scaling now?
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You can do one thing, lay out your arguments point by point, in a single comment, that contains all of your points so it's easier to see and follow the entire point you're trying to make with respect of the conclusion you are trying to reach.
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