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Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

And people going FTL would absolutely destroy the surroundings and nuke the entire Seireitei as a result. There being greater effects irl doesn’t and has never discredited a feat, it’s what gets called AOE fallacy. Planetary characters swinging full force and barely toppling a building without the lovely staff explanation of Ki control is a thing in fiction but we still accept them as planetary or what have you.

There is no expansion. The beam has never expanded and it’s on you to prove that it just so happened to expand in this instance when there is a valid point in explanation for the change in shape. Expansion also doesn’t explain why the shape of the star is different, only that it is bigger than it was originally.

Edit: Dunno why it says staff in the first paragraph. Staff got nothing to do with what I was saying lmao
 
@Cyber, I feel like you’re trying to be as realistic and scientific as possible, and there’s no one in the world who can react to a bullet getting shot at them from a close distance, therefore no manga can accept a character moving faster than normal speed. Correct if I’m wrong though, that’s just what I personally feel like you’re trying to argue along with your other points

about the Mach cones from ichigo, that’s just Kubo telling us that ichigo is traveling fast. He made a Mach cone at the beginning of his journey and I’m pretty sure you can’t break the speed of sound again and make another cone if you’re already traveling faster than that. Which is another reason why I think you’re trying to be way to realistic about this
 
You could argue that's ichigo normal travel speed. He still has shunpo speed and combat speed. Which can make him much faster. Hes also been shown moving fte to them multiple times
 
People lost me on this seeing light speed stuff. They don’t need to be seeing the light speed object in question, just the effects of its travel.

Edit: That is to say they aren’t necessarily seeing the SoL object where it is currently but where it was previously.
 
WHY DOES ICHIGO ARRIVING AS SEIREITEI MATTERS HERE?! LIKE AT ALL?!

Also, he was literally trying to slow himself down.

Also also, this wiki doesn't even considering him doing that traveling to SS at LS, not.even.close.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
And people going FTL would absolutely destroy the surroundings and nuke the entire Seireitei as a result. There being greater effects irl doesn’t and has never discredited a feat, it’s what gets called AOE fallacy. Planetary characters swinging full force and barely toppling a building without the lovely staff explanation of Ki control is a thing in fiction but we still accept them as planetary or what have you.

There is no expansion. The beam has never expanded and it’s on you to prove that it just so happened to expand in this instance when there is a valid point in explanation for the change in shape. Expansion also doesn’t explain why the shape of the star is different, only that it is bigger than it was originally.

Edit: Dunno why it says staff in the first paragraph. Staff got nothing to do with what I was saying lmao
Click to expand...
ok so
25FBNqD.jpg

We never get a shot of the end point of the beam before it hits something. All we know is that upon firing, the beam lacks a star shape initially, at least from that angle

VjWOFBw.jpg

Same issue here

Its already in star esqe shape in the next panel

so it either:
expands upon contact

or expanded on the blade

It doesnt reflect, as ive pointed out before. I remains flat and expands out.
 
@Dangai, that would be insanely awesome to see honestly lol, but I’m gonna try and stop commenting and let the thread get back to its original points. Also Damage I apologize if I seemed like I was attacking you in any way. It just some of our opinions vary differently.
 
SilentBob34 said:
@Damage, you’re still confusing me man. For example, if like 5 people threw baseballs at me at different times I would focus on the last one throwing it and deflecting that and consider that my speed instead of how fast I hit the other 4 away? I’m lost.
Click to expand...
I'm getting more confused by people wanting it the other way around.

It will literally lower the results of the calc if we went just by Ichigo deflecting the one closest to him.

But anyway, this isn't the thread to discuss that calc any further.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
ok so
25FBNqD.jpg

We never get a shot of the end point of the beam before it hits something. All we know is that upon firing, the beam lacks a star shape initially, at least from that angle

VjWOFBw.jpg

Same issue here

Its already in star esqe shape in the next panel

so it either:
expands upon contact

or expanded on the blade

It doesnt reflect, as ive pointed out before. I remains flat and expands out.
Click to expand...
What are you arguing exactly? Because it seems like you are saying the beam isn’t star shaped from the very beginning when it clearly is. Look at the forehead of his mask where it comes from. That is where the beam comes from and is emitted from all of the star. The beam has always been star shaped.
 
Lets take a step back here
1. Mask states his attack is a beam of light right?
2. The beam of light is coming from the star shaped thing on his forehead.
3. We see the effects of the beam incinerating the captain in the same exact shape as what was on Mask's head
So the most basic assumption here would be that the beam's end point would be shaped as a star rather than it expanding to form the shape of a star at the last moment.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
What are you arguing exactly? Because it seems like you are saying the beam isn’t star shaped from the very beginning when it clearly is. Look at the forehead of his mask where it comes from. That is where the beam comes from and is emitted from all of the star. The beam has always been star shaped.
Click to expand...
Lets go with that, sure. It still doesnt reflect so we still have the same issue
 
@Damage, but, isn’t that what the original calc assumed? That ichigo deflected the closest one to him first? Please explain why it would lower the results cause I honestly can’t see how the calc would go from realistic to MHS+ if you already downgraded it with assuming he hit the furthest arrow first. Candice’s lightning speed downgrade not withstanding.
 
SilentBob34 said:
@Cyber, I feel like you’re trying to be as realistic and scientific as possible, and there’s no one in the world who can react to a bullet getting shot at them from a close distance, therefore no manga can accept a character moving faster than normal speed. Correct if I’m wrong though, that’s just what I personally feel like you’re trying to argue along with your other points

about the Mach cones from ichigo, that’s just Kubo telling us that ichigo is traveling fast. He made a Mach cone at the beginning of his journey and I’m pretty sure you can’t break the speed of sound again and make another cone if you’re already traveling faster than that. Which is another reason why I think you’re trying to be way to realistic about this
Click to expand...
mach cone was specifically to show what i would consider a real nitpick. Im just weirded out you brought bullets in a discussion regarding light speed
 
@Damage, I don’t wanna derail it any further, so could you post on my wall or yours why that would be the case? I’m genuinely curious cause I feel like I have an idea why, but I’m trying to make sure I understand it fully.
 
No. You are asserting it doesn’t reflect as fact. What we see is that the beam hits the sword and at the point of contact the shape of the beam changes. Now we have to ask ourselves “why?”.

Well what do we know about the beam? Mask calls it a laser, it is star shaped, it causes burns and vaporisation.

What do we know about the sword? The sword doesn’t have a flat surface and said surface is reflective.

Conclusion, the beam changes shape at the point of contact because said sword has properties that would change the shape of said beam. What properties are those? Not flat and reflective.
 
@Cyber, because you’re trying to say if a character can move at light speed, they should be covering far more distance than they show them covering in a fictional series on paper. And I’m saying that if you wanna say that, then with them showing that they don’t travel as far as you think they should be then we can assume they can’t be faster than bullet speed since we don’t see them traveling as far as a bullet can when they move from one spot to the other.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
No. You are asserting it doesn’t reflect as fact. What we see is that the beam hits the sword and at the point of contact the shape of the beam changes. Now we have to ask ourselves “why?”.

Well what do we know about the beam? Mask calls it a laser, it is star shaped, it causes burns and vaporisation.

What do we know about the sword? The sword doesn’t have a flat surface and said surface is reflective.

Conclusion, the beam changes shape at the point of contact because said sword has properties that would change the shape of said beam. What properties are those? Not flat and reflective.
Click to expand...
refer to my post and citations here

The blade is not flat, so it would have to be diffusion reflection. The sequence that happens does demonstrate that type. Star expands like a 2d surface

Burns dont prove it to be light, its just not an anti feat. Vaporization like that could actually be an anti feat (will go into detail if asked)
 
@Cyber, so again, you’re saying that because Kubo didn’t draw the exact angles that light should be reflected at, it’s not legit? That brings into question every speed feat of anything if you want it to be that specific.
 
And none of what you said there disagrees with me. You just said it’s diffusion reflection which is still reflection.

I wasn’t saying they prove it’s a light, I was listing off any properties of the beam relevant to the discussion and it burning and vaping things is a valid property. The fact that it acts how a laser does only lends credence to the feat. And please tell me you aren’t gonna say that lasers don’t vaporise things?
 
No im saying for a non flat surface, light would reflect via diffusion

Im not sure you read the citations

specularjavafigure1.jpg

on the right is diffusion. Light will shoot out in angles still away from the surface

Also something of note. Zabimaru is indeed non flat, but not to distorted is shape
bleach_zabimaru_grande.jpg


What happened with the star isnt diffusion reflection. It isnt reflection of any kind
 
Last edited:
can someone summarize what's being argued here?
someone talks about bullets the other talks about the sound and a group talks about Ichigo moving and Renji's feat like wtf is going on here
can we just stay on one topic so anyone comes and read will not have a cancer from this
 
What happened with the beam is reflection. What you are using to disprove it is literally nitpicking and saying Kubo needs to draw the exact angles it needs to reflected at to be considered as such when no author should be placed on such a high pedestal and expected to know physics or spend his time drawing accurate drawings based on angles of the same. You are getting too nitpicky and into the physics of what is possible that you forget this is fiction. If such is the case then mftl speed tier shouldn't even exist since it is impossible for anything to travel faster than light however this is not the case since as stated above this is fiction.
 
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