Cell vs Post-Crisis Superman

[The_real_cal_howard]

Cell already blew up Goku, but in this timeline, Gohan couldn't handle it. So Cell decimated the world, but after a while, he became bored. So he wished on the Dragon Balls to fight a powerful warrior. All of a sudden, the man of steel came out of nowhere. He saw the destruction and deduced that Cell was the cause. Both assumed fighting stances. Who comes out of this alive? Did Cell wish for more than he could handle, or is Superman going to be apart of the Bio-Mechanical warrior.

 

[Antoniofer]

Supa is faster, but Cell has more AP via Solar kamehameha, if Cell hit him with that attack he would kill him, but is very likely that Supa dodge it. So, eventually, Supa should win... at least Cell blow up the sun

 

[Jeune_fou]

Cell also has an advantage: he has a very good regen. Also he is very intelligent so sooner or later he'd be able to understand Superman's powers come from the sun. Let's not forget he has the shunkan ido (and also he already felt king kai's ki). Unlike Goku, Cell wouldn't hesitate to take advantage of that weakness. But on the other hand Superman has intagibility.That's a very interesting vs thread.

 

[WildeNick771]

I think Sups, but i want to see more about Cell.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

spc vs post crisis?

spc is like 70 x stronger or something

and can regen from a cell

and speed gap isnt too big

if cell even hits superman once, he wud win

i'd say cell wins

 

[WildeNick771]

Cell could really win, but i really don't think with just one punch.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Once Cell sees what his oppenent can do I think he might want a few cells for himself.

While it's a bit inconclusive without them (but I do lean towards Cell) with Cell managed to get even a couple who knows how strong he could get.

 

[Strmi]

While superman is faster,Cell does have IT,very good regen,can surive in space too etc.Is also stronger,i give vote to him

 

[Promestein]

Superman can blitz and use heat vision to like, target Cell's central... cell. Hax and speed advantage. Pretty sure there was a thread on this, once before.

 

[WildeNick771]

Not only heat vision, but intangible and freezing breath.

 

[Antoniofer]

@Prom, it was the central cell thingy an anime statement? I though that if there still one cell of his body, he can regen, at least is that what I remember for teh manga.

Anyway, I really doubt that Cell can defeat Supa with one punch, normal physicals attack from DBZ characters are considerably weaker than his ki blast attacks, and Cell is only SS with his Solar Kame Hame Ha

 

[CaptainFalcon64]

@Prom, it was the central cell thingy an anime statement? I though that if there still one cell of his body, he can regen, at least is that what I remember for teh manga.
Anyway, I really doubt that Cell can defeat Supa with one punch, normal physicals attack from DBZ characters are considerably weaker than his ki blast attacks, and Cell is only SS with his Solar Kame Hame Ha

That is not true at all, DBZ characters can amp their strikes to match their blasts.

 

[Antoniofer]

Not sure if divert those attacks should scale to their physical strength... if true that those ki blast possesses mass, but those aren't that heavy, divert them should be easy to them; if they use a punch/kick that counter the explotion, that should scale to physical strength

 

[CaptainFalcon64]

Not sure if divert those attacks should scale to their physical strength... if true that those ki blast possesses mass, but those aren't that heavy, divert them should be easy to them; if they use a punch/kick that counter the explotion, that should scale to physical strength

Except they do considering Goku has tilted over a car with a Kamehameha as a child, if they wouldn't had have mass then the car wouldn't have been moved. Also saying that they are easy to divert is like saying a regular human could divert the Final Flash, that's not how Ki works...at all.

 

[Ryukama]

@Antonio there is no need to derail the conversation of this thread. If you feel that ki is vastly superior then make a thread. However there are reasons why their striking strength is listed same as their AP.

 

[Promestein]

@Prom, it was the central cell thingy an anime statement? I though that if there still one cell of his body, he can regen, at least is that what I remember for teh manga.

Anyway, I really doubt that Cell can defeat Supa with one punch, normal physicals attack from DBZ characters are considerably weaker than his ki blast attacks, and Cell is only SS with his Solar Kame Hame Ha

No, it was manga. In the english dub, it actually states Cell can regenerate from any cell, but the original manga and japanese dub specifically state he needs the one core cell. Obviously a plot hole, considering Goku blew his head off, but maybe Cell's central cell somehow survived. It survived him blowing himself to bits, so who knows.

Cell probably could one-shot Supes if he lands a solid hit, but it's unlikely when Supes is so much faster, can become intangible, and has the hax necessary to put Cell down before he lands a hit.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

cell is much stronger but slower

at the same time he has regen to grow out of a single part of his body if it remains

 

[KazarianFahs]

superman has a considerable speed advantage,especially considering he's faster than any properly calced feat in current DB(of which there's only one feat of the current tiers) Cell which appeared way back and was way slower than what DB is now,doesn't have much going for him in the speed department,and considering supes can phase through cell's strikes and proper ,burn cell to a crisp,i'd say supes wins.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

superman is rated as mftl (260 x speed of light) while spc is rated as "at least ftl+"

so the gap is very small.. i'd say something like at most 3 x or something

its noot going to be a mega blitz

also cell can recover from even small part of his body

and all he needs to win is land just one semi serious hit

and he wud win

 

[LegendsVII]

superman is rated as mftl (260 x speed of light) while spc is rated as "at least ftl+"
so the gap is very small.. i'd say something like at most 3 x or something

its noot going to be a mega blitz

also cell can recover from even small part of his body

and all he needs to win is land just one semi serious hit

and he wud win

I have no idea where you got that Post-Crisis Superman is 260c considering he's demonstrated being billions of times FTL, but alright?


Cell has better AP but Superman would be able to speed-blitz him effortlessly. Plus, the versatility of his powers is a major factor.

Additionally, even if he was 260c and Cell was only FTL, that's still a MASSIVE gap in speed.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

superman is rated as mftl (260 x speed of light) while spc is rated as "at least ftl+"
so the gap is very small.. i'd say something like at most 3 x or something

its noot going to be a mega blitz

also cell can recover from even small part of his body

and all he needs to win is land just one semi serious hit

and he wud win

I have no idea where you got that Post-Crisis Superman is 260c considering he's demonstrated being billions of times FTL, but alright?


Cell has better AP but Superman would be able to speed-blitz him effortlessly. Plus, the versatility of his powers is a major factor.

Additionally, even if he was 260c and Cell was only FTL, that's still a MASSIVE gap in speed.

260x ftl is his combat speed -_-

he may have much faster travel speed

but we r talking about combat speed here -_-

also cell being "at least ftl+" means he is most likely on the upper margin of the 10 to 100 x light speed gap

also at least wud imply that this is a conservative estimate

so he cud be around 100 x ftl while superman is 260 x ftl

 

[Promestein]

I'm pretty sure it's been established that even a small speed gap is enough for the faster to blitz, let alone a speed gap faster than 2x.

Also, 100x FTL Cell is high-balling it, considering everyone in the Buu Saga is also At least FTL+, and they're all much faster than Cell, so it's unlikely he's at the very top of the category.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I'm pretty sure it's been established that even a small speed gap is enough for the faster to blitz, let alone a speed gap faster than 2x.
Also, 100x FTL Cell is high-balling it, considering everyone in the Buu Saga is also At least FTL+, and they're all much faster than Cell, so it's unlikely he's at the very top of the category.

ok if 2x is a standard for speedblitz or any factor for that matter, then shud we not applyit to db? im sure there are quite a few places wheere it can be applied

also cell has impressive regen and you will have to destroy him completely to win

i dont think superman will destroy cell completely before cell can land a hit.....

 

[Antoniofer]

Question: isn't Supa faster in space? he is 260c combat speed in earth but could be considerably faster in space, and with those two fighting, the Earth is a small arena.

Not sure how Supa can kill cell tho, but cell hasn't infinite stamina, even if he can regen, he would become weaker and weaker as fight is prolonged

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Question: isn't Supa faster in space? he is 260c combat speed in earth but could be considerably faster in space, and with those two fighting, the Earth is a small arena.
Not sure how Supa can kill cell tho, but cell hasn't infinite stamina, even if he can regen, he would become weaker and weaker as fight is prolonged

tur, but the fact also stands that cell is like 70x stronger or more

so an omnidorectional barrage+ cell using IT to get to superman and merely taping him wud kill superman

 

[Jeune_fou]

Now that I think about it, Cell also has that technique that's called "perfect barrier" in some video games (it has no name in the anime or in the manga): it creates a giant shield (several hundreads of meters) that is powerful enough to protect perfect cell (so spc would make one even more durable) from Goku's ki blasts.

 

[Jeune_fou]

Question: isn't Supa faster in space? he is 260c combat speed in earth but could be considerably faster in space, and with those two fighting, the Earth is a small arena.
Not sure how Supa can kill cell tho, but cell hasn't infinite stamina, even if he can regen, he would become weaker and weaker as fight is prolonged

Yes but that's because he just fly in front of him! That's different than fighting. Not to mention there's a physical phenomenon that makes you faster when you're in space (time works differently in space). Cartoon fight club showed that during the Goku vs superman fight at 19 min 05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYmJ9sRq_zo

 

[Antoniofer]

@TLT1, that certainly can kill Supa, but an omnidirectional attack is very predictible, the most likely is that Supa dodge it, futhermore, charging attacks like that take sometime, so maybe that wouldn't work

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

@TLT1, that certainly can kill Supa, but an omnidirectional attack is very predictible, the most likely is that Supa dodge it, futhermore, charging attacks like that take sometime, so maybe that wouldn't work

well he cud fire many ki blasts in all directions

and while superman is confused, spc cud just IT behind superman and give him a tap

 

[Meleemaster428]

Question: isn't Supa faster in space? he is 260c combat speed in earth but could be considerably faster in space, and with those two fighting, the Earth is a small arena.
Not sure how Supa can kill cell tho, but cell hasn't infinite stamina, even if he can regen, he would become weaker and weaker as fight is prolonged

Yes but that's because he just fly in front of him! That's different than fighting. Not to mention there's a physical phenomenon that makes you faster when you're in space (time works differently in space). Cartoon fight club showed that during the Goku vs superman fight at 19 min 05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYmJ9sRq_zo

Cartoon Fight Club also made New 52 Superman (Who's weaker and slower than Post Crisis) beat Broly (Who's around Cell's range if not higher) and relies on Goku's instant transmission too much to counter speed arguments. Your argument would've been better off not quoting him.

There's also the debate on the combat speed fallacy, the fact that Superman's shown similar speeds on Earth, and the space phenomonon not really detracting from Superman's feat as that STILL requires a lot of speed and control to pull off.

 

[LegendsVII]

superman is rated as mftl (260 x speed of light) while spc is rated as "at least ftl+"
so the gap is very small.. i'd say something like at most 3 x or something

its noot going to be a mega blitz

also cell can recover from even small part of his body

and all he needs to win is land just one semi serious hit

and he wud win

I have no idea where you got that Post-Crisis Superman is 260c considering he's demonstrated being billions of times FTL, but alright?

Cell has better AP but Superman would be able to speed-blitz him effortlessly. Plus, the versatility of his powers is a major factor.

Additionally, even if he was 260c and Cell was only FTL, that's still a MASSIVE gap in speed.

260x ftl is his combat speed -_-
he may have much faster travel speed

but we r talking about combat speed here -_-

also cell being "at least ftl+" means he is most likely on the upper margin of the 10 to 100 x light speed gap

also at least wud imply that this is a conservative estimate

so he cud be around 100 x ftl while superman is 260 x ftl

The writers aren't trying to distinguish combat speed, here. The intent was to write that Superman can react in femto-seconds and his speed feats are meant to be consistent. The only reason the distinction between Superman's combat speed and travel speed are discerned when they're clearly meant to be the same is because, for some reason, there's a conscious effort to nerf him. There's absolutely no reason to discern the two when the writers obviously intend for him to be MFTL+.


Additionally, the travel speed argument doesn't work because you would need to maneuver around celestial objects (like asteroids and planets) during travel and to do so you'd need to react close to the speed you're moving.

 

[Strmi]

Dude travel and combat speed in marvel and DC are not same

 

[LegendsVII]

Again, not always, but in the case of Superman they should be close.


The travel speed argument doesn't work because you would need to maneuver around celestial objects (like asteroids and planets) during travel and to do so you'd need to react close to the speed you're moving.

 

[Strmi]

Dude this is comic,COMIC.Nothing else needs to be written

 

[LegendsVII]

Dude this is comic,COMIC.Nothing else needs to be writte

What type of sense does that make?

Again, there's no reason to discern travel speed and combat speed when travelling through space fundamentally requires fast reflexes if he's moving at 1,000,000,000c or more. This isn't even cherry-picking, this is logical thinking, and it's incredibly nonsensical to discern combat and travel speed for a character like Superman who logically should be able to react as fast as he flies. And before some goes "well comic books aren't logical!"

Please. You need to follow some type of logic to compensate for comic book inconsistencies. When the situation calls for it, using logic like this should be fine.


And logic dictates that Superman, since he travels at billions of times faster than light through space, should have MFTL+ reflexes at LEAST in the millions to be dodging all of these celestial objects in his way.

 

[Strmi]

talking to is like talking to wall

 

[LegendsVII]

talking to is like talking to wall

Not at all. I'm not the one being arrogant, your argument only comes down to "it's a comic book." Brilliant. Ironclad rebuttal.

 

[Antoniofer]

Superman having femtosecond reactions isn't an inconsistence at all, he always has show to have insane speed, like traveling from the edge of the galaxy to the earth in an instant (I think it was in that way); I even remember that in a blog, that Batman said that Supa has zeptosecond reactions.

About the travel speed, if was casual flying speed, without using space and/or time manipulation or a skill that can't be used in battle, should be similar to the combat speed, or at least to reaction speed.

Now, back to the thread, for now I would say Supa win with low-High difficult, and would take some time to defeat Cell.

 

[LegendsVII]

Superman having femtosecond reactions isn't an inconsistence at all, he always has show to have insane speed, like traveling from the edge of the galaxy to the earth in an instant (I think it was in that way); I even remember that in a blog, that Batman said that Supa has zeptosecond reactions.
About the travel speed, if was casual flying speed, without using space and/or time manipulation or a skill that can't be used in battle, should be similar to the combat speed, or at least to reaction speed.

Now, back to the thread, for now I would say Supa win with low-High difficult, and would take some time to defeat Cell.

Exactly. And once again, discerning combat speed and travel speed for some characters is valid, but it really isn't necessary for Superman. And even if you WERE to do it, capping it at 250c is absolutely silly considering that if his reaction time was that much slower than his travel speed, he'd be clumsily crashing between asteroids and planets in space. He's not traveling in a perfect, straight line when he's in space.

 

[Antoniofer]

@Legends, the problem is that the people who want to be in vsthread is that they only have the stast from the profiles, and in this case, the only speed written in Supa profile is 260c. if you have enough proof for an upgrade, you can make a thread about that, but not here.

@Strmi, you will need a better argument that "it's a comic character" if you want that your words can be taken into account.

If the discussion doesn't take a better way, I would need to request to close it