Chainsaw Man LS Upgrade

[GunshyFever]

Introduction
Due to this calc the Chainsaw Devil and the Primordial Devil's should be upgraded to (possibly Class G)

Reason for Possibly
In the scans shown in the calc we are not sure that the Chainsaw Devil actually jumped, as it could have been a kick off which would invalidate it being LS or it also could have been a jump which makes the feat 50/50. So a Possibly rating should be warranted

Who scales to it
Note:
Fear Scaling: As Devils embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than another Devil, their AP and Speed surpasses that said devil.

The Chainsaw Devil; Is the Devil whom performed the feat so naturally he'd scale to it, to have a gauge of his power in the verse he known as the devil that devils fears the most which puts him at a comparable level to the Primordial Devils

Primordial Devils; These devils have been described as "transcendent" compared normal devils and have never experienced death before due to their immerse power, as they possess names that are feared by nearly every human on the Planet, eg; Falling and Darkness making them comparable if not superior to The Chainsaw Devil.

That's all

Agree: (2:1) @SeijiSetto, @That_moron2, @TheRustyOne

Disagree: (0:1) @LordGinSama

Neutral: (0:0)

 

[LordGinSama]

Disagree. This isnt something that we can qualify, it's either he jumped or kicked off from the ground. That's the issue, ergo you can't even label this as a "possibly" since we don't have any idea of how he actually performed the feat.


Hard Disagree with even a possibly due to the very nature of the feat here.

 

[GunshyFever]

Disagree. This isnt something that we can qualify, it's either he jumped or kicked off from the ground. That's the issue, ergo you can't even label this as a "possibly" since we don't have any idea of how he actually performed the feat.


Hard Disagree with even a possibly due to the very nature of the feat here.

Regarding this, it was actually discussed here, I cant give a summary since as I'm a afraid to misinterpret what they are saying but in the end we decided a possibly rating should be fine

 

[LordGinSama]

Regarding this, it was actually discussed here, I cant give a summary since as I'm a afraid to misinterpret what they are saying but in the end we decided a possibly rating should be fine

Yeah I still disagree with that notion.


Anyway if you want a LS upgrade calc Denji literally burrowing through the ground with his chains against the Hybrids. That'll probably yield higher than what your currently going for.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[azontr]

it's either he jumped or kicked off from the ground

Jumping or kicking off the ground can be calculated as LS. We've done it before

With either or interpretation, it's LS.

 

[LordGinSama]

Jumping or kicking off the ground can be calculated as LS. We've done it before

Not quite, it's much more complex than that if you ask calc group members. We removed the class P Boros LS calc since it was a kick rather than a jump.


One calc being accepted isn't a good argument especially since it's JJK which are notorious for having flawed calcs. Furthermore the two feats you linked shows them explicitly jumping unlike this one. But ultimately it's best to have a calc member like Chariot to confirm it.

 

[azontr]

Not quite, it's much more complex than that if you ask calc group members. We removed the class P Boros LS calc since it was a kick rather than a jump.

Kicking off the ground is not the same as kicking somebody. Very different movements, actually.

One calc being accepted isn't a good argument

I actually edited it to include 2 examples

for having flawed calcs

Can you actually prove it's flawed or are you just saying that

 

[LordGinSama]

Thread I'm talking about. Multiple staff like QAWS seem to disagree with kicking being considered as LS.

 

[azontr]

Thread I'm talking about. Multiple staff like QAWS seem to disagree with kicking being considered as LS.

You linked not a thread but a mod profile, of a mod who isn't even a calc mod.

 

[LordGinSama]

Kicking off the ground is not the same as kicking somebody.

Your telling me kicking the ground and kicking a person are different? No way!!!!


Yeah i never said this so I'm not really sure why you'd mention it. What I'm saying from previous threads, kicking off the ground usually isn't considered as LS from what I've seen at least. Although it could be a spilt opinion amongst calc group members, which ya know is pretty common here unfortunately.

Very different movements, actually.

Next you'll tell me the difference between a chokehold and a liver punch.

I actually edited it to include 2 examples.

Yeah saw them and addressed them. Different context, those two actually show the stance the characters are in for the jump / lunge.

Can you actually prove it's flawed or are you just saying that

Neither that's just me telling you that JJK calcs literally change every week at this point so that's not really the best reference to make.

You linked not a thread but a mod profile, of a mod who isn't even a calc mod.

Busted phone so my bad. Here's the one I meant to link https://vsbattles.com/threads/lord-boros-class-p-removal.155919/

 

[azontr]

Yeah i never said this so I'm not really sure why you'd mention it.

Boros' Class P feat comes from kicking somebody, not kicking off the ground. If you use the removal of his LS based on a feat of him striking someone with his leg (a kick) then that's inherently what you mean without clarification.

The very thread you proceed to link has this in its OP:

Next, why this isn't LS. The reason is quite simple, really. This is a kick. A striking action with a single point of impact which does not relate to LS in the slightest.

If you don't even know what was being proposed in the thread you're using as evidence then why even post it lmao.

Neither that's just me telling you that JJK calcs literally change every week at this point so that's not really the best reference to make.

Okay but it currently hasn't changed for a bit of time, so it's valid evidence. It's what accepted that matters, not what might not be accepted later.

I'm not going to respond to what I didn't respond to because that wouldn't actually progress the debate.

(For clarification for future generations I am not angry or mad or aggressive )

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Disagree. This isnt something that we can qualify, it's either he jumped or kicked off from the ground. That's the issue, ergo you can't even label this as a "possibly" since we don't have any idea of how he actually performed the feat.

Does that not fit the criteria of a "possibly" rating? "Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive" Vague - "Not clearly defined, grasped, or understood". Not being exactly sure of how he launched himself off of a building do to lack of a panel would seemingly fall under this criteria. The justification being that it is the most logical conclusion that can be drawn about how he launched himself off the building given what we know about his abilities and the limited panels we are provided. It's not concrete, but it's also not a stretch by any means.

 

[Zabazab]

As long as the maths is ok I'd prefer a possibly rating to a firm rating. I don't think it's a stretch to say a character standing in one page, and then the object they where standing on exploding as they are now in the air in the next page, might have been a jump.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[SeijiSetto]

Agree for Zab's reasons, essentially. We don't see what happens so him kicking off the floor OR actually jumping are both equally likely interpretations, so a possibly works.

 

[Ugarik]

How is this an LS feat. Haven't we agreed not to calcute LS from stricking?

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

How is this an LS feat. Haven't we agreed not to calcute LS from stricking?

It has the possibility to be a jump so I don't see why possibly isn't ok.

Agree for Zab's reasons, essentially. We don't see what happens so him kicking off the floor OR actually jumping are both equally likely interpretations, so a possibly works.

Thanks, I know it's not for certain but it is still a possibility.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[That_moron2]

I agree with this

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[Vzearr]

Is there any reason to assume he jumped?

 

[Zabazab]

Is there any reason to assume he jumped?

As long as the maths is ok I'd prefer a possibly rating to a firm rating. I don't think it's a stretch to say a character standing in one page, and then the object they where standing on exploding as they are now in the air in the next page, might have been a jump.

 

[LordGinSama]

Tbh doesn't look like a jump even looking at the panels it seems like he's actually lunging forward rather than jumping into the sky. I.E striking off the ground with a kick.

 

[Zabazab]

It doesn't look like a jump or a kick, because Pochita outright vanishes. Only an assumption can be made, and it was either a push-off or a kick-off. Lunging also isn't more likely to be a kick-off than a push-off.

 

[LordGinSama]

It doesn't look like a jump or a kick, because Pochita outright vanishes. Only an assumption can be made, and it was either a push-off or a kick-off. Lunging also isn't more likely to be a kick-off than a push-off.

It's not that, it's the sequence and the follow up. First page of the feat we see him standing still, next one we see people being sent into the air and afterwards we see Pochita kicking another Hybrid through multiple buildings.


Not really seeing why he'd need to jump whenever the feat itself doesn't involve the movement of jumping. He's lunging directly at them, not launching himself up or propelling himself with a jump. Furthermore it doesn't make much sense for him to jump whenever the Hybrids he's attacking are directly in front of him.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm fine with the possibly Class G rating. There's nothing that factually says what he did. The idea it was a jump is simply a possibility.

I've seen nothing to suggest any other reason is more likely than a jump and nothing that disproves a jump is possible. We do not know, so they're all possible in some way. I do not fault anyone if they believe it shouldn't be LS, as it's unknown and that is possible as well.

Unless there is new evidence to be brought up, that is my stance for now.

 

[GunshyFever]

We have enough votes for changes to be made now, ill update this message after I've applied them

Edit: I have done so, and this can now be closed

 

[Duedate8898]

Closing