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So here we'll talk of everything we can do to fix the verse and give it the respect and glory it deserves.
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Chrono series: Revival Discussion Thread
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
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- chrono (verse)
So here we'll talk of everything we can do to fix the verse and give it the respect and glory it deserves.
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- Thread starter
- #2
Stuff I plan to do:
- Remove that asinine Low 2-C scaling applied to everyone because of reasons I listed here.
- Make keys for characters for their Early/Mid/Late Game selves
- Make better tabbers for equipments.
- Make tabber for Elements for Chrono Cross characters.
- Discuss Radical Dreamers stuff.
- Make Lavos' profile better than it already is (as I know it's pretty incomplete so far lol)
- Discuss the speed ratings of the verse.
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And add gifs to frog
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true!
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- #5
And add gifs to frog
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I'm pretty sure that's a cloud parting feat before he splits the thing, actually.
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- #7
Truuuuuu.
Also, for Chrono Trigger I found interesting stuff:
- A lot of the fodders being generally 9-C (which I'll ignore coz otherwise I'll flood the thing).
- Yakra (the first actual boss) making an Earthquake
- Crono and Lucca beating up the Dragon Tank
- The trio beating the Guardian, which even caused an earthquake after its destruction
- This unusually large T-Rex
- Giga Gaia being another giant (who also uses a relatively large fire explosion)
- Ice II being a thing (it's also implied from the Nintendo Guide that the ice is straight up created). And yes, Magic is described as an inner strenght and is used as one of the parameters of damage, meaning that it's some UES-like thing.
- Bombarding the Earth's surface with tons of explosions (the og Narutoforums calc is heinous coz it uses an ernlarged Earth, this vid has it right lol)
- The Mammon Machine draws power from Lavos, with it being the new energy source of the kingdom, with Lavos not getting weakened at all from this. Lavos is also implied to be the reason why it is floating in the sky, especially when at its awakening it literally destroys the Kingdom, making it fall to the ocean.
- Lavos absorbing the Earth's energy for over 65'000'000 years (adding also 1999 so it's 65'001'999 years lol), evidence in both Trigger (here, here and here) and Cross (here, here and here)
- Is the meteor that landed on the Earth 65 million years ago, causing the Ice Age.
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That's cool and all but you forgot the acrobatics???
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- Thread starter
- #9
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FROG MY GOOOOOAT
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- #11
Him and Magus are easily Top 1 characters both not gonna lie.
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that's pretty trueing
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Looks reasonable.
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- #14
Some stuff about CT I forgot:
- Lucca can use Flare, which is implied to be hotter than all of her other attacks and bombs
- Characters being comparable in speed to the Epoch
- Ayla getting a nice LS feat (I think Robo can scale given that generally him and Ayla have even the highest Strength stat initially iirc. This also should apply to people like Crono/Lucca/Marle after the Dimensional Vortex given they got a giant-ass boost that allowed them to hold on the Dream Devourer)
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,232
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Well, i will excuse myself from calc stuffs, i'm not well-versed in that aspect. But well first and foremost, we discussed this over discord, i agree with making tab/key for the characters. Probably we should touch Epoch level of speed later after we done all the calc stuffs, but your call @StrymULTRA
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the Epoch does have a speed calc used eons ago
Didn't agree with it being applied as it was before but I guess they do just react to it's attacks moving faster than it and outright have the wherewithol to jump on top of it as it's flying by, so maybe?
Didn't agree with it being applied as it was before but I guess they do just react to it's attacks moving faster than it and outright have the wherewithol to jump on top of it as it's flying by, so maybe?
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- #17
I don't really agree with scaling it to the top speed, as it literally becomes Immeasurable shortly-after (unless it's for base Lavos tiers, given that he logically should be able to do that as he has in his DNA also the Black Omen).
Its base speed can go across the globe in 13-14 seconds though.
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- #18
Now, getting back on calcable stuff:
Radical Dreamers (yes):
Radical Dreamers (yes):
- Serge can destroy human skulls and human spines, and Kid can do both the former and latter with less effort.
- Serge can KO a goblin from giving an headbutt so hard that it also takes off some teeth. Kid on the other hand can make a goblin scared of her with just a kick.
- Serge can survive morningstars slammed on his body.
- Serge can dodge attacks from a griffon despite being far weaker to the point he thinks he'd die quickly from one of those.
- Sunflower Kid is 7 to 8 times Serge's size, can vaporize 3 goblins at once with a fireball, destroyed trees from just rushing onto them, and even survived a cannon made to kill her with no damage.
- Sunflower Kid can use Phamtom BREAK, a spell that erased in nothingness an entire manor and the area around it (I think that unlike the previous feats this should be only hax, given it took a lot of time to get prepared, and needed to channel a lot of magic to use it).
- Serge pushes away a giant clam.
- Serge can use Uplift to lift a chunk of ground and smash it on the enemy, with the enemy even tanking that cube being shattered on their body. And then beat up the boss of that fodder enemy (other than the fact it's comparable in speed to a dog).
- A giant bird is also a boss.
- The main party can beat up living giant doors, big robots, giant tentacle monster and an Hydra.
- Earthquake is an Element that can lift 3 giant columns of ground.
- UltraNova generates explosions visible from the atmosphere.
- Meteorite and MeteorShower (self-explanatory tbh).
- Harle can make a Lunar Eclipse.
- BlackHole (and it's something that Peppor can already use lol).
- PhotonRay and PhotonBeam are SoL attacks.
- ThundaStorm creates a storm.
- ForeverZero's 4-A creation and destruction.
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World map stuff is one of the first examples of invalid stuff listed in our Game Mechanics page
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Speed stuff for Trigger also is:
- Crono's Cyclone (if we make Early - Mid - Late Game keys, this would be applied to the first)
- Lavos comes to the Earth, traveling through countless stars, and is implied to have done so since eons (I dunno if it's just Travel Speed or can be applied to his Combat one too)
I think I am done with compiling the feats. You can see by yourself all of these and discuss which ones are worth of a calc or not (if they're valid that is).
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These animation things are canon, right? Cause that's a good feat.
I wouldn't consider this a full-on EQ but it might be doable as a shaking feat- remind me, they're in a church, right? Maybe I could assume they're shaking the whole thing.
Same as above but idk if this'd even scale to its death, to be safe I'd prefer the Yakra feat.
Generally size stuff is gonna give like, 9-A at most so I'll disregard it.
9-A probs
NGL I don't actually know if the party scales to Magus at this point in the story, they need Excalibur's powernull to beat him and he's comparable to them much later into the game. I would tentatively consider the UES acceptable though.
Probably tier 6, aye.
There's a High 6-B calc for that, it treats the map as the entirety of the planet so idk if it's viable but it could possibly be redone using the mountains.
Idk if this'd scale to his physicals
Causing an ice age is something like High 6-C, granted that's the temperature change, not lifting up clouds or whatever. Honestly I'd probably just treat Lavos as comparable to the Chicxulub meteor given that it caused the extinction of the dinosaurs in the CT world (and caused long-lasting climate changes just like the IRL meteorite).
Between it being from a guide (I think?) and relatively vague idk about being so hot, but even just using normal temperatures this should give a tier 8-ish result
All 9-C
Are goblins human-sized?
EE as AP is currently being discussed
9-B-ish
Probably decent result
That's weirdly really hard to calculate since you don't see any curvature. I guess I could do it using the height of the atmosphere as radius, given that the explosion is circular-ish
Dunno about standards here, JRPGs are weird in the regard that obviously you're not causing the destruction the attacks show, but the BH standards kinda require that to happen
Light, photons and lasers are all brought up in rapid succession so it should be fine
Just standard Low 7-B storm stuff, no need for a calc
I'd like more detail for this to be creation rather than just a cool effect
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They're all introduced from the DS version. Plus they are just in-detail version of what happens already in the game, so yeah, they're canon.
A cathedral actually.
You mean Masamune*. And I can see your point given that Magus uses high-end Tech which the party learn pretty later on. Though there's Ice I if you want to.
Edit: Never ******* mind. They can use that Tech at that point of the game too.
The map is 100% the whole of the planet, but I disagree with using just 2 km as the height is weeeeell above the clouds, and I'd use 10 km here. I think it'll get 6-A.
Yes. Plus Serge always potrays them as comparable in height to him when fighting them.
I think it's just a JRPG thing rather than an invalidation of the black hole, given that gravity is one of the main points of the Black Innates, and visually it even warps space.
Plus it's not even the 1st time where strong asf attacks do not impact the battlefield in Cross, as UltraNova or this.
To be fair, the user shifts the combatants to a different space, then creates the starry background and destroys it.
I'd do the same, yes.
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About that, given that's treated as a heat thing and it's her strongest attack, I'd say it's fine.
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Tech isn't really what specifically concerns me, it's just that to fight him you have to bring the weapon that weakens him (to the point that even being near it hurts him, given he cowers if he's in the party when Frog unlocks its true power) and still have to strike his elemental weaknesses, plus he meant to 1v1 Lavos (he obviously loses that fight badly later on but still he feels confident in fighting it after seeing the party get stomped) and can 1v1 Frog (Or fight the whole party if Frog isn't there) much later into the game despite the fact that he got his shit slonked by Lavos.
If it is then maybe it's fine, honestly I feel like calculating the area it fell into is a high ball, not a lowball, especially given that it's made of four islands, and none of those islands look like they're anywhere near continent-sized
Mh, maybe
Is that said to be what's happening? Cause I looked up the attack and that's what the wiki says, but it didn't source it
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It's how it's the most interpreted to be fair, given it's only description is "all things are returned to nothingness", thus implying that's as the dimension was made out of nothing, it also gets returned to nothing.
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About that, it depends on how the calcs end, because I'd like to make something like this for CT:
Early Game: Yakra's feat + Superhuman speed
Mid Game: Frog's Cloud feat + the Epoch flying speed
Late Game: Lavos stuff (which also can put very high end speed ratings in play like Immeasurable due to Lavos having the DNA of both the Epoch and the Black Omen, though I wouldn't push it pass a "likely" for that).
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Actually I have found now an actual good reason to explain why the feat is Low 2-C (or Low 1-C if we use the Temporal Dimensions stuff) instead of 4-A, now that I've mentioned the "return to nothingness".
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average ps1 rpg
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Alright, for that I'll link this blog (which Ultima already approved back then when I've showed him) which explains in great detail the following things:
- How the cosmology works and its size
- How Dreams work and why they'd qualify as Type 1 Concepts.
- How the Darkness Beyond Time works, and why it'd get also the following stuff:
- BDE 2
- NEP Nature 1, Aspects 1, 2, 3 and 5 (as the Darkness Beyond Time is beyond dreams, and anything inside of it gets reduced to nothing, and despite this Lavos can still think and act. Plus Aspect 5 is from History, as deleted timelines come in the DBT to rot)
- Nonduality Nature 2, Aspect 1 or 2 (as the Darkness Beyond Time is also beyond dualities shaped from time and dreams, like beginning/end or love/hate. Plus I can make an argument for Aspect 2 if this for Arceus gets through tho)
ForeverZero is basically a reference to that from the description "everything gets reduced to eternal nothingness" (which is even repeated in the CC guide about the DBT btw), plus the fact that Lynx is the biological incarnation of FATE that was integrated in her being solidifies this, meaning that similar to FATE, ForeverZero actually pulls out an dead timeline from the DBT and then erases it again.
This is 100% Low 2-C from its own, but there's also the fact that each timeline has its multiple temporal axis, as the Black Omen never did reach other timelines (and those things can be accessed in CT), thus you can perfectly argue that each timeline is not just Low 2-C, but Low 1-C (aka we're getting on the ride with Dragon Ball basically, meaning that the cosmology is made of infinite Low 1-C sized timelines in total lmao. and MAAAAYBE we can still get 6D as Zurvan treats all these infinite 5D timelines as finite in comparison given that the beginning and end of all these timelines is within Zurvan, but I am not sure about that anymore).
Anyway, can you also ping @DarkDragonMedeus to read it? I'd need some staff input for that as well.
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Looks good to me
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I'll get to the calcs... probably
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- #33
The main ones which are necessary are:
- Yakra
- Ice I, Ice II and Flare
- All the Lavos stuff I've mentioned above (excluding the Meteor given it's already rated)
- The Black Hole
- The Uplift thing
- UltraNova (if you want to)
- The CC Meteor stuff
- Crono's Cyclone speed
- Lavos crossing stars
- Harle moving the Moon
- Ayla's LS thing
- Serge's LS thing
- Frog's cloud split
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Welp looks like Arceus is getting Type 2 Nonduality based on him being apparently unbound from every concept in verse, thus means also every duality, so Lavos should too given that Dreams are basically the foundations of the reality itself, including space, time, beginning, hate, love and hate, and whatever gets in the DBT is reduced to nothing.
Did not know the standards of the wiki were this low but heh :x
Did not know the standards of the wiki were this low but heh :x
Vietthai96
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wut???
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They seem to ignore Giratina and its world importance to the CRT and focusing on the part where I say the regular world it reflects is everything.
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I know, but that does not seem to be enough for saying that is the opposite of evey duality kek.
Anyway, if Arceus gets it, the the DBT does as well given the logic is the same.
Anyway, if Arceus gets it, the the DBT does as well given the logic is the same.
Vietthai96
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Giratina' world is the reflection, the opposite, its not just nothing outside everything, it's the nothing that is opposite everything. That is what is essential. Just being everything and a nothingness outside it is not going to work without explanation connecting the two as opposing elements, otherwise the nothingness is just the lack of everything, which doesn't count.
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