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Cinder fall vs shigaraki
- Thread starter Spinoirr
- Start date
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This a Thanos snap stomp unless someone can argue otherwise.
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How is Cinder suppose to beat him, his dura is over 7.5x her AP and he has High-Mid regeneration.
Even dozen of blows from a baseline 7-B was unable to kill him, and that was when his regen was slowing down and his body was falling apart.
Even dozen of blows from a baseline 7-B was unable to kill him, and that was when his regen was slowing down and his body was falling apart.
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Shigaraki Fortnite dances through all of Cinders attacks until he inevitably touches her
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They ignored his dura because Endeavor has fire attacks that reach into thousands of degrees and specifically ignore dura due to their heat, to the point of literally vaporizing people instantly.
Cinder does not have that at all.
Cinder does not have that at all.
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1) that is not sheer heat, it’s magic
2) even if that was heat, that feat would be less than Endeavor’s feats
3) Shigaraki can regenerate from Endeavor’s heat, so it still does nothing to him
4) she did that on a High 8-C character that was beaten and on the ground, and has never attempted this in combat agaisnt people her equal. If it is magic dependent, than it scales to her AP, which is far too weak to affect Shigaraki
5) Shigaraki can decay her to nothing the second she comes near him
2) even if that was heat, that feat would be less than Endeavor’s feats
3) Shigaraki can regenerate from Endeavor’s heat, so it still does nothing to him
4) she did that on a High 8-C character that was beaten and on the ground, and has never attempted this in combat agaisnt people her equal. If it is magic dependent, than it scales to her AP, which is far too weak to affect Shigaraki
5) Shigaraki can decay her to nothing the second she comes near him
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Just the fact she did that on a High 8-C, and only ever once on a High 8-C, is enough to disregard that working on Shigaraki who has Low 7-B + dura without sufficient supporting feats for it.
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Not really, since Shigaraki's regen isn't reported to ever get him back from being turned to ashes, because Endeavor never turned Shigaraki to ashes. More importantly, there is a real good in-universe explanation for as to why Cinder doesn't do what she did to Pyrha to just anyone, Aura. Aura is the primary reason that Cinder can do nothing of that nature to Pyrhha until after the fight was said and done. Because only then is the forcefield that surrounds most hunter's and huntress down. Shigaraki has no such forcefield so anyone hit with her weapons can dust him if she so wills it.
Also, Shigaraki's decay probably wouldn't work through aura since the forcefield blocks her physical body and I don't think Shigaraki has any feats of decaying energy barriers.
Also, Shigaraki's decay probably wouldn't work through aura since the forcefield blocks her physical body and I don't think Shigaraki has any feats of decaying energy barriers.
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1. Its not magic, its heat. It was done by her semblance.
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“Any one hit with her weapons will dust him” <- this claim right here is quite egregious. From what that scene showed, she not only had to make direct hand contact with Pyrrha, but she has also never shown the ability to use this attack through her weapons (as seen from Weiss not turning to dust when she was impaled with no Aura).
Endeavor wasn’t able to turn Shigaraki to ashes because Shigaraki’s regeneration speed and durability were so high he that he couldn’t. A direct prominence burn from Endeavor could vaporize Hood‘s entire body instantly, yet Shigaraki could withstand it even without regeneration with only a burned up arm. Even when pushed to his limit and breaking down from his failing body, on the brink of death, he was able to survive a direct prominence burn and heal through it turning his entire body to char. Cinder’s attack doing anything even remotely similar to that is doubtful given how she uses it and the feats attributed to it.
I also feel the need to bring up that Cinder has never shown the ability to even use this attack mid combat. She only did this to Pyrrha after having already basically killed her with an arrow through the heart.
Also, again, Pyrrha is High 8-C. Why are you assuming that Cinder outright negates all durability with this attack, rather than saying she could do this because she is stronger than Pyrrha by over a hundred thousand times.
Why would Cinder ever assume he doesn’t have Aura? None of her attacks will even scratch his skin, as not only is he over 7.5x more durable than her AP, he regenerates from any damage he receives instantly. If anything, she’d assume he has some of the strongest aura she’s ever seen and would work on taking it down first before even thinking of burning him.
Shigaraki can crush her like a stick with his Lifting strength, which would break her Aura and remove her semblance. Also she’d be grappled and insta dusted.
Endeavor wasn’t able to turn Shigaraki to ashes because Shigaraki’s regeneration speed and durability were so high he that he couldn’t. A direct prominence burn from Endeavor could vaporize Hood‘s entire body instantly, yet Shigaraki could withstand it even without regeneration with only a burned up arm. Even when pushed to his limit and breaking down from his failing body, on the brink of death, he was able to survive a direct prominence burn and heal through it turning his entire body to char. Cinder’s attack doing anything even remotely similar to that is doubtful given how she uses it and the feats attributed to it.
I also feel the need to bring up that Cinder has never shown the ability to even use this attack mid combat. She only did this to Pyrrha after having already basically killed her with an arrow through the heart.
Also, again, Pyrrha is High 8-C. Why are you assuming that Cinder outright negates all durability with this attack, rather than saying she could do this because she is stronger than Pyrrha by over a hundred thousand times.
Why would Cinder ever assume he doesn’t have Aura? None of her attacks will even scratch his skin, as not only is he over 7.5x more durable than her AP, he regenerates from any damage he receives instantly. If anything, she’d assume he has some of the strongest aura she’s ever seen and would work on taking it down first before even thinking of burning him.
Shigaraki can crush her like a stick with his Lifting strength, which would break her Aura and remove her semblance. Also she’d be grappled and insta dusted.
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Either way puts it in a similar ball park to Endeavor completely vaporizing people with his strongest attacks instantly, which Shigaraki heals from. Including when he was being turned to ash, while weakened, dying and on his last legs.
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Er...the heat to vaporize a person is like 100 C, its not a lot at all especially compared to Cinder's heat that can instantly liquefy granite, or 1260 C
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Endeavor’s max power is stronger than kid Dabi‘s, who had flames that could reach 2000 degrees Celsius. Don’t talk about degrees here, Endeavor wins.
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Then why would you say thathis strongest attack can vaporize someone if it had a way more impressiv feat?
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Even if we just downplayed Endeavor and said he’s weaker than kid Dabi due to potential, he’d still have higher fire power from downscaling and then clashing with Dabi in the Heroes Rising movie, even overpowering him with Prominence Burn, which Shigaraki tanked.
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Because the argument presented was “cinder vaporized Pyrrha and Shigaraki can’t heal from that.” My argument was in direct opposition of “yes he can, he’s shown that vs Endeavor.”
You stated that Cinder can reach 1260 Celsius to claim her fire is stronger than Endeavor’s, at which point I felt it appropriate to bring up what Endeavor’s heat scales to temperature wise.
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Shigaraki has never healed from vaporization in the manga, hence why his regeneration caps out where it does. Endeavor never burnt Shigaraki to an extent that would require that level of regeneration.
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Incorrect, he is hit with the prominence burn twice, comes out of it alive and heals from it. The prominence burn can blatantly vaporize people with its heat, as seen from it doing so to Hood, so Shigaraki withstanding it is a feat for him not being vulnerable to vaporization due to heat.
More specifically, chapter 285, Shigaraki, despite his regeneration weakened, his body breaking down and his stamina running out, survives a direct prominence burn blast with Endeavor on his back, despite his entire body, inside and out, burning into a black char and flaking off into dust.
What Cinder did to Pyrrha, if it is through sheer heat, operates on the same principle that Endeavor’s prominence burn does, just worse. If she is doing this through sheer heat, than in order to vaporize people, she needs to touch them, then use her semblance to super heat their bodies till they turn to ash.
Shigaraki counters this because his regeneration replaces any burned or overheated cells near instantly, meaning that Cinder would be burning him up, but his body would just be replacing itself and he wouldn’t die. This is how he survives Endeavor’s prominence burns. In fact, because he is at full health for this fight, he would tank the attack, which is weaker temperature wise than Endeavor’s, and crush her with his higher lifting strength since she is foolishly right next to him.
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Essentially, this fight is a stomp since Cinder’s only win condition gets her killed near instantly. Difference in ability is too high for me to see Cinder ever winning.
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Don't know where you got Shigaraki being burnt on the inside, but either way that still isn't the same level of damage as getting vaporized. Never does Shigaraki ever turn into a pile of ashes or anything close to that, hence why on his very own page, his regeneration caps out at the High Mid instead of Mid High which is what is needed in order to regenerate from getting turnt to ash.
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When Deku punches Shigaraki in the face in chapter 286, you can see that the inside of Shigaraki’s head has turned to char as well. The prominence burn was burning his entire body to nothing, not just the outer skin, and he only survived because of his regeneration.
I’m not saying he regenerates from vaporization. I’m saying he regenerates so fast that vaporizing him via heat, at least heat that is around Endeavor’s level, is not possible. He literally regenerates while the vaporization happens. And since Cinder’s relies on actual contact, the chances of her getting it off and not dying seconds afterwards are zero given her max displayed temperatures aren’t even AT endeavor’s level.
Also, a point that you brought up earlier that I addressed, she doesn’t know he doesn’t have aura, nor is she able to find out. She quite literally can’t hurt him in anyway other than that way, and burning people from the inside isn’t something she ever does.
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Once again, I’m claiming stomp. Cinder’s “wincon” is a death wish and Shiggy is too hard of a smurf.
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It's actually quite easy to tell Shigaraki doesn't have aura because current Cinder should be able to burn him, since her AP far exceeds Endeavors whose own flames could easily burn shigaraki without reaching prominence burn. Not just that, but her aura is a valid defense to stop Shigaraki from actually using his quirk on all but her Grimm arm since it's a forcefield surrounding her body and Shigaraki's quirk has no feats of bypassing anything like a barrier of energy.
Something else, where did you get Endeavor's flame temperature? I don't remember it ever being said in series or illustrated.
Another thing, when Shigaraki's face cracked, we weren't shown what was actually there. Deku saw AFO hanging out underneath it, and then another shot of it Shigaraki's face still healing showed nothing that can really be discerned so still nothing saying he was burnt inside out.
Something else, where did you get Endeavor's flame temperature? I don't remember it ever being said in series or illustrated.
Another thing, when Shigaraki's face cracked, we weren't shown what was actually there. Deku saw AFO hanging out underneath it, and then another shot of it Shigaraki's face still healing showed nothing that can really be discerned so still nothing saying he was burnt inside out.
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She has to actually hit him to find out he has no aura, and it’s not like Shigaraki is just going to be sitting around the entire time. And again, she will need to be close to Shigaraki to try and superheat him at all. All Shigaraki needs to do is grab her when she tries to touch him and she’s going to die. Considering he could heal from Endeavor’s prominence burn, which is stronger than Cinder’s temperatures, while his quirks were weakened, Shigaraki can take her heat with ease.
Also again, why would she try this at all, when against other people when their aura is down, she hasn’t done this. Even against Winter, whose aura she knew was down, she did not attempt this instantly. Your entire argument is banking on Cinder using a one time move she has never done again nor has ever done in combat, whose mechanics we can only speculate, that Shigaraki has shown resistance to, and that can result in her getting grabbed by someone whose lifting strength is their win condition.
I already addressed her Aura, Shigaraki can crush her through it with his lifting strength. Thanks for bringing up her Grimm arm however, as that just gives Shigaraki an actually decayable target. So now he doesn’t even need Cinder to be near him, since just the pain of slowly losing an arm would cripple Cinder enough for him to get a hold of her easily. So that’s two Win Conditions for Shigaraki from his LS that are viable, both of which can be achieved by Cinder getting near him with any part of her body, and she uses her Grimm arm, which she knows is vulnerable to attack, in character far more than she does the “super heat the enemies body” move.
Dabi’s flame temperature while a child, in chapter 291, was stated to reach temperatures over 2000 degrees when he allegedly died. A counter question for you is when did Cinder ever instantly liquefy granite, as I don’t recall that. I don’t doubt it, but when did she do this.
Not all of Cinder’s flame is at the heat to melt Granite. Otherwise Weiss would have had her insides liquefied and died instantly, and Winter would have lost her entire arm when she was slashed.
That is not the scene I am referring to. When AFO tries to take OFA, you can see a panel of Deku punching Shigaraki’s head and there being nothing but more charred flesh underneath it than just the surface level, reaching into his skull, and that is AFTER he had spent time healing. Endeavor even, quite blatantly, burned Shigaraki’s eye balls out of his head. I don’t know why you’re attempting to say he wasn’t going to vaporize Shigaraki or that Shigaraki’s whole body wasn’t destroyed by that attack but just healed over it.
Also again, why would she try this at all, when against other people when their aura is down, she hasn’t done this. Even against Winter, whose aura she knew was down, she did not attempt this instantly. Your entire argument is banking on Cinder using a one time move she has never done again nor has ever done in combat, whose mechanics we can only speculate, that Shigaraki has shown resistance to, and that can result in her getting grabbed by someone whose lifting strength is their win condition.
I already addressed her Aura, Shigaraki can crush her through it with his lifting strength. Thanks for bringing up her Grimm arm however, as that just gives Shigaraki an actually decayable target. So now he doesn’t even need Cinder to be near him, since just the pain of slowly losing an arm would cripple Cinder enough for him to get a hold of her easily. So that’s two Win Conditions for Shigaraki from his LS that are viable, both of which can be achieved by Cinder getting near him with any part of her body, and she uses her Grimm arm, which she knows is vulnerable to attack, in character far more than she does the “super heat the enemies body” move.
Dabi’s flame temperature while a child, in chapter 291, was stated to reach temperatures over 2000 degrees when he allegedly died. A counter question for you is when did Cinder ever instantly liquefy granite, as I don’t recall that. I don’t doubt it, but when did she do this.
Not all of Cinder’s flame is at the heat to melt Granite. Otherwise Weiss would have had her insides liquefied and died instantly, and Winter would have lost her entire arm when she was slashed.
That is not the scene I am referring to. When AFO tries to take OFA, you can see a panel of Deku punching Shigaraki’s head and there being nothing but more charred flesh underneath it than just the surface level, reaching into his skull, and that is AFTER he had spent time healing. Endeavor even, quite blatantly, burned Shigaraki’s eye balls out of his head. I don’t know why you’re attempting to say he wasn’t going to vaporize Shigaraki or that Shigaraki’s whole body wasn’t destroyed by that attack but just healed over it.
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Please note that heat revisions have not gone through yet, so heat doesn't ignore durability wiki wide. Endeavor's clearly does in universe and that's why we treat it like that. Also AP has nothing to due with heat, heat from a higher tier character doesn't make it hotter.
Since flames that only reach 300 Celsius can give someone 7-A AP or more, depending on it's size. If we took AP to equal heat, we could make Endeavor's flames hotter than the surface of the sun, which is clearly not the case, I'm pretty sure that's calc stacking actually. We go by the feats the characters have done, not their AP.
Also Aura will not protect her from decay, and I know what your going to say. Aura isn't something that can decay, but that doesn't matter.
Shigaraki can decay corporeal stress, which isn't something that decays either.
This is a stomp and should be closed.
Since flames that only reach 300 Celsius can give someone 7-A AP or more, depending on it's size. If we took AP to equal heat, we could make Endeavor's flames hotter than the surface of the sun, which is clearly not the case, I'm pretty sure that's calc stacking actually. We go by the feats the characters have done, not their AP.
Also Aura will not protect her from decay, and I know what your going to say. Aura isn't something that can decay, but that doesn't matter.
Shigaraki can decay corporeal stress, which isn't something that decays either.
This is a stomp and should be closed.
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When did Cinder liquefy granite by the way, @WeeklyBattles
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