CSM AP, Speed downgrade CRT

[Sammy818]

So I was looking through the Chainsawman page and icl it’s kinda dookie imo. Imma highlight a few things that I think need to be redone.

7B knocked off for Pochita
Currently Pochita scales to the Kinetic energy of the gun devil at 100 percent, and I have a few problems with that, firstly the gun devil himself lost over 70 percent of his mass by the end of the run across the planet(only 28 percent ended up in the soviets, the last place he went to), as already accepted the gun devil doesn’t scale physically to it so I don’t know why Pochita would, second Pochita was one shot by a city level attack already against Yoru, and maybe third it’s reliant on kinetic energy, not an attack that anyone ever tanks or survives, (This was a bad second point by me icl) I think it makes more sense(if we assume Pochita >/= to gun devil during part 2) to change his AP to whatever the gun devils is but most likely far higher.
Edit 2: Ok so one key point I failed to implement was fear scaling, as yes, trancedent primal devils that are superior to the gun would scale to his suicide as it was stated they are transcendent to even the gun devil, in csm 170 barem states chainsawman became an everyday fear on par with “aging and sickness”, the former being a primal fear, this led to the interpretation that meant that Pochita ergo would be on a playing level equal to primal devils(as well as Yoru due to them fighting pretty equally before aging pulled up), however as noted in the statements page this should be interpreted with the context of the manga as well as the fights that followed this statement, when both Yoru and Pochita proceed to fight primal fears(falling and aging) they proceed to get embarrassed, Pochita gets one shot multiple times by an aging devil explicitly holding back significantly(he wanted to be eaten by Pochita to fulfill his end of his contract), next when Yoru fought a falling devil(specifically stated to be weak by Fami, not just weakened), she was speedblitzed and one shot(I know recent chapters happened but this was before big nuke stuff). I understand barem says one thing but compared to what happens literally immediately after it conflicts, especially considering it wasn’t like a direct statement from Fuji himself(like white box panel). All right try 2 let’s hope this is a wee bit better

Gun devil emergence removed for all but Yoru
The gun devil emergence doesn’t make sense to me because he didn’t break out himself. As we can see with Yoru and her weaponificatiom power she adds a lot of speed to her objects(for example the soap that is stationary flies towards her after she calls for it, meaning she caused it to move) which means the gun devil himself shouldn’t scale to it since the speed that was needed to gain the KE to bust out wasn’t his own, we know this because she called for gun and tank(again notice with the soap sword she didn’t even need to touch it to call for it to fly to her). Yoru should keep the AP for now but only via weaponification but characters such as makima, the gun and Pochita should not. The gun devil destruction feat should replace the emergence feat for any characters that use it for their AP Edit, thanks to reply it should be replaced with this feat as this speed didn’t destroy his body, Pochita and Yoru get 100 percent AP while makima gets 20 btw

Pochita from space
This feat should be changed to attack and travel speed instead of C/R, he threw his heart, he didn’t make any sort of movements by himself, it’s not like when Saitama jumped from the moon or something. We know this is faster than his movement speed as during part 2 during his fight against the aging devil he threw his heart instead of running the distance to fight the aging devil. This is important to note as he put himself in a more vulnerable position as he was incapable of defending himself while being nothing but a heart. Pochita however should retain MHS C/R due to heavily up scaling from katana man but lower than the Mach 600 calc Icl I’m not gonna be able to really argue this one down and it would only be a half speed decrease

Pochita Sub Rel removal
He didn’t react to it, he got hit and one shot as stated before(also even if he did react to the attack, which eh didn’t, teh wrong attack speed is listed as he was attacked with teh first bang, not teh second one which is faster)
Edit: So i definitely didn’t argue this point well enough so I’ll add on. In the accepted calc that the bullet Pochita reacted to(each panel equals one second), the bullet specifically crashes into an apartment building 2 seconds(one panel before the Pochita panel) it reaches Pochita, I believe the noise made by crashing through the building is what Pochita perceived(seems most likely when looking at the page itself), if we are to assume the timeframe of the bullet remained the same(each panel equals one second) Pochita had under 2 seconds to turn his head, however greater than 1, this timeframe is not sub relativistic(and again I want to point out the attack he “perceived” was the first bang(0.018c), not the second(0.048c) but I digress), but alas I feel like this is a losing battle of an argument

 

[Sammy818]

HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE YOU SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR HUMANS AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT FOR YOU. HATE. HATE!

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

The gun devil destruction feat should replace the emergence feat for any characters that use it for their AP

We have the 20% Gun Devil KE, a version where it is not shown that he self-destructs while traveling.

The rest looks good to me.

 

[Sammy818]

We have the 20% Gun Devil KE, a version where it is not shown that he self-destructs while traveling.

The rest looks good to me.

Also you got a csm pfp, it’s new gen fan law that agenda > everything

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

Also you got a csm pfp, it’s new gen fan law that agenda > everything

We just need females bro.

 

[GunshyFever]

It's not an exaggeration to say that my love for powerscaling in general has faltered greatly. I can barely even take a moment to squint at the profiles of this verse, and every day I begin to care less and less about fixes and upgrades. However, with the knowledge I have of this verse, I'm still able to take part in threads like these and simply use it to help accurately scale the characters on this wiki. I just feel like the majority of threads like these keep arising because I'm not here to fix issues, or if that's what this is about. Anyways, enough of my ranting, here's what I have to say about the OP.

Also could you please reduce the size of the images?

So I was looking through the Chainsawman page and icl it’s kinda dookie imo.

Is it? From my perspective, the only thing that's "dookie" is speed, along with a few extremely minor AP sectors for specific characters, which really aren't problematic at all. However, we're all entitled to our own opinions. I digress.

7B knocked off for Pochita
Currently Pochita scales to the Kinetic energy of the gun devil at 100 percent, and I have a few problems with that, firstly the gun devil himself lost over 70 percent of his mass by the end of the run across the planet(only 28 percent ended up in the soviets, the last place he went to), as already accepted the gun devil doesn’t scale physically to it so I don’t know why Pochita would, second Pochita was one shot by a city level attack already against Yoru, and maybe third it’s reliant on kinetic energy, not an attack that anyone ever tanks or survives, I think it makes more sense(if we assume Pochita >/= to gun devil during part 2) to change his AP to whatever the gun devils is but most likely far higher.

For your first issue with the scaling of this feat, this is not a problem at all. In fact, it is already accepted on the Gun Devil's profile as "suicide ramming." The reason why Pochita, specifically Part 2 Pochita, scales higher is because his fear scaling is transcendent in comparison to the Gun Devil's. What do I mean by this? Let's step back.
Fear scaling occurs when a devil (which embodies a concept) becomes more powerful the more feared it is, both in physical stats and abilities [See more on Empowerment through fear here...]. There is also a separate category of devils called Primal Fears, who have been described as "transcendent" compared to normal devils and who have never experienced death before due to their immense power. The Gun Devil, even at his fullest, is dismissed compared to the sheer potency of these concepts. The Gun Devil does not "scale" to his own attack, since he lost a large portion of his body while performing it. Meanwhile, characters such as the Primal Devils, who scale to this feat, transcend the physical limitations of the Gun Devil and are capable of prowess at incredible levels that outright disregard him. So where does Pochita fall in all of this? Well, note that due to the success of the Death Devil's plan to re-empower Chainsaw Man with fear, causing him to become an everyday object of fear on par with sickness and aging (with Aging later revealed to be a Primal Fear), Pochita's fear scaling places him on a comparable level to the Aging Devil. Hence, he is City level.

Now, regarding your second point: you claim that Pochita was one-shotted by a "City level attack" against Yoru. I must implore you to please read thoroughly and attempt to gain a proper understanding of the source material before jumping to these ludicrous downgrade threads. It wastes the time and energy of those who actually tend to this verse seriously. You are clearly misinterpreting the material. The attack you referenced is not City level. It is already accepted as Mountain level on the verse page, calculated at 166.47 megatons of TNT, roughly 10 times stronger than Part 2 Pochita's base physical stats. This is not an anti-feat. Furthermore, even if it were City level, it would simply upscale to Gun Goddess from Pochita's baseline value, which again, would not be an anti-feat.

I find your reasoning inconsistent with both the verse's actual showings and the scaling we already have established. Moving on.

Gun devil emergence removed for all but Yoru
The gun devil emergence doesn’t make sense to me because he didn’t break out himself. As we can see with Yoru and her weaponificatiom power she adds a lot of speed to her objects(for example the soap that is stationary flies towards her after she calls for it, meaning she caused it to move) which means the gun devil himself shouldn’t scale to it since the speed that was needed to gain the KE to bust out wasn’t his own, we know this because she called for gun and tank(again notice with the soap sword she didn’t even need to touch it to call for it to fly to her). Yoru should keep the AP for now but only via weaponification but characters such as makima, the gun and Pochita should not. The gun devil destruction feat should replace the emergence feat for any characters that use it for their AP Edit, thanks to reply it should be replaced with this feat as this speed didn’t destroy his body, Pochita and Yoru get 100 percent AP while makima gets 20 btw

This is very trifling to read and understand, but I will try to interpret it as best I can. By the "Gun Devil emergence", I believe you are referring to the feat of the 28% Gun Devil erupting from Mount Elbrus. You bring up the point that it doesn't make sense because he "didn’t break himself out", but what doesn't make sense here is actually your reasoning. The 28% Gun Devil scales to the feat because he himself caused the destruction within that area, regardless of whether he was summoned or not. The feat was achieved through his physical prowess alone, without the aid of any external force. All Yoru did was summon the Gun Devil, nothing more. Therefore, the destruction is rightfully credited to the Gun Devil. Whether or not Yoru added speed to the object is irrelevant, the resulting destruction is still the Gun Devil's. I have no idea why you are bringing up kinetic energy in relation to a destruction feat, the two have no correlation at all.

Pochita from space
This feat should be changed to attack and travel speed instead of C/R, he threw his heart, he didn’t make any sort of movements by himself, it’s not like when Saitama jumped from the moon or something. We know this is faster than his movement speed as during part 2 during his fight against the aging devil he threw his heart instead of running the distance to fight the aging devil. This is important to note as he put himself in a more vulnerable position as he was incapable of defending himself while being nothing but a heart. Pochita however should retain MHS C/R due to heavily up scaling from katana man but lower than the Mach 600 calc

This makes no sense, again. It is combat speed, because Pochita can casually throw his heart at Mach 600 speeds. That same hand movement, or general movement, is what he would use in a physical fight. It doesn't take much effort to step back and come to an understanding of this point. Obviously, his travel speed would not scale to this, since the feat is strictly combat speed related, not travel speed related. Travel speed refers to how fast he can generally move with his entire body, whereas this feat directly showcases his striking speed.

Pochita Sub Rel removal
He didn’t react to it, he got hit and one shot as stated before(also even if he did react to the attack, which eh didn’t, teh wrong attack speed is listed as he was attacked with teh first bang, not teh second one which is faster)

It is. On his profile, it explicitly states and shows: "sensed an incoming Gun Goddess bullet before it hit him." That’s the cut and dry of it.

Anyways, I found this entire exchange to be a huge waste of my time. The verse page you call "dookie" only appears that way because of your inability to understand the material. Instead of asking questions, you went ahead and created a CRT, disregarding the effort put into scaling by the verse's supporters, and ended up making yourself look foolish by not actually grasping the scaling at all. I've had to sit here writing a wall of text just to respond to your shortcomings in understanding the content. A complete waste of time. I'm not trying to be rude, nor am I entirely frustrated with you, but please, next time you fail to understand the scaling we use, stop by the general discussion thread. We'll gladly help clear things up and set your mind straight.

 

[Arkenis]

7B knocked off for Pochita
Currently Pochita scales to the Kinetic energy of the gun devil at 100 percent, and I have a few problems with that, firstly the gun devil himself lost over 70 percent of his mass by the end of the run across the planet(only 28 percent ended up in the soviets, the last place he went to), as already accepted the gun devil doesn’t scale physically to it so I don’t know why Pochita would,

Doesn't change the results.

second Pochita was one shot by a city level attack already against Yoru, and maybe third it’s reliant on kinetic energy, not an attack that anyone ever tanks or survives, I think it makes more sense(if we assume Pochita >/= to gun devil during part 2) to change his AP to whatever the gun devils is but most likely far higher.

Calcs don't determine scaling. And GG's calc is nearly a 2x diff, 2x can just be a significant diff.

 

[ElJoaki5]

I agree with the two speed downgrades.

 

[GunshyFever]

Time to respond to this
So first off with the gun devil portion you refer to fear scaling and argue that because Pochita has higher fear he would be “transcendent” to the gun devil and would ergo scale to his suicide ramming, this would be correct for primal devils, Pochita however is never described himself in a transcendent sense to these devils, even when barem does say this when put in a fight against the aging devil, Pochita is literally no diffed, what’s the most likely case is barem was talking out his ass here, this is even more so after recent chapters as we finally do see Yoru become equal to the falling devil as before when she was apparently equal she still got slammed by the falling devil(I also want to make it known Fami specifically refers to her summoned falling devil as weak, not just weakened, implying she’s significantly below her primal, so pre nuclear Yoru who’s equal to Pochita was getting slammed by a weak falling devil). Statements are valid but when they are put into practice and fail, and when they aren’t technically author statements, these should be disregarded. To sum it up barem is dumb and fat and Pochita isn’t transcendent to the gun devil, only above(however now that I’m typing this America Yoru might scale to this if she is at primal level). Therefore Pochita should upscale from any AP feats the gun devil would physically scale to, but not the suicide ram as it’s agreed he doesn’t scale to it.

This is you, once again, misinterpreting the content. There have been queries like this that were answered long before the Aging Devil even had a profile, questions that were discussed back when god-tiers were considered 7-C a year ago. It is unnecessary for someone to restate that Pochita is transcendent to regular devils after his fear boost, because that correlation was already established through Barem's statement about Chainsaw Man now being as feared as sickness and aging. This places his level of fear scaling in direct comparison to a Primal Fear, as I mentioned earlier. Bringing up his fight against the Aging Devil has no place in this discussion, due to the specific circumstances of that battle. I want you to note that there is a difference between being a devil with the name of a Primal Fear versus being a devil who is as feared as a Primal Fear. One has the name of a concept that is engraved into the human psyche and instinctive even at birth such as Falling. Meanwhile, a devil who is simply feared on the same level as a Primal Fear has physical strength comparable to one, but the potency of their abilities depends on the concept they embody. In this case, Pochita represents the very concept of chainsaws. Therefore, the abilities that grow stronger with his fear would be distributed between his chainsaws and his existence erasure powers. He would not gain the specific abilities that Primal Fears wield, because their concepts are far more fundamental and deeply terrifying to the human psyche. Now, with the lore clarified, let me explain logically why claiming that the Aging Devil swiftly defeating Pochita means Pochita cannot physically scale to him is unreasonable and nonsensical. The Aging Devil created a contract with Public Safety agents in which, in exchange for full control over their bodies, he could sacrifice his hosts' organs to induce cancerous growths inside an opponent. This causes numbness and forces the body to deteriorate. This is already accepted in his profile as biological manipulation and durability negation. These hacks that the Aging Devil possesses have nothing to do with raw physicality, since they bypass durability entirely. On top of that, we have direct feats of this fear-empowered Pochita contesting the Aging Devil’s strength multiple times, physically enduring his strikes, slicing off his arms, and even shredding his body to ribbons effortlessly. The Aging Devil himself even thanked Pochita, telling him that this was the most vivid pain he had ever experienced in his entire existence. Keep in mind, this being has likely existed since before humanity and has never died, making that one righteous compliment.

And here we go again with the "Barem was talking out of his ass" nonsense. Listen, not only is it proven that the Aging Devil and the Chainsaw Devil are physically comparable, supporting Barem’s statements, but there is no reason for Fujimoto to bring up the names of two Primal Devils before they were revealed or debuted unless it served a purpose. This is the author deliberately power scaling his characters, showing relativity between them and establishing where they stand on the fear-scaling spectrum. You’re also using the Falling Devil, who lost to Nuclear Yoru, as an argument. But you're not keeping up with the details. That version of the Falling Devil you’re referencing is not at full Primal level. You even posted the scan yourself, which contradicts your stance. That was the weakened Falling Devil, under Death’s control. Death explicitly states that the devils under her control are weakened, unable to use their full strength. On top of that, the body she used on Earth was composed of mere human corpses she possessed, and she was harmed by conventional weapons. This has been common knowledge for about two years now. I implore you to re-read the series and fact check yourself.

I don't feel the need to digress any further, because none of the fights you brought up are relevant to physical strength. I’m tired of breaking this down into baby steps for you to understand.

As for this next point, you cannot be serious lmao, you can’t say “this is a matter of reading comprehension” while being blatantly wrong , Pochita was one shot by the first attack which had to blow past multiple buildings and things in its path(which slows it down and lowers its kinetic energy) and it was accepted as being slower and a city level attack, the attack you’re referencing passed straight through the already made hole and was much faster. Refer to the post itself “This time the bullet only takes two panels to arrive. It isn’t shown towards where the gun is facing, But given how Yoru points in the same direction as the first bang and walks straight down the hole left behind by it, It's perfectly possible that it went the same long-way distance as the first bang.” source

This is a matter of basic science understanding, let me explain with a real world example, let’s say there’s a brick wall, car a runs into it at 5 miles per hour, what would happen? No significant damage. Now let’s say car b runs into it at 200 miles per hour, it would plow right through, what changed? Speed. Because car b is faster it has more kinetic energy and ergo force needed to bust out. As explained before with the soap bar and even speed of the gun itself(hell the feat I referenced even accepted that items Yoru calls are significantly faster than without her help) Yoru adds speed to the things she calls for, knowing this and the formula for kinetic energy(ke = 1/2mv^2) due to the speed not being of his own being, teh gun devil emergence feat cannot scale to himself as the bust out required teh speed boost of Yoru, again even refer to the chapter itself, Yoru even says she’s turning her children(gun + tank) into weapons(her arms) which as accepted and stated previously, weaponification adds speed to the object she calls for
Onto the pochita heart feat rebuttal, the feat itself calculates the speed of the heart, not arms itself, if we refer to baseball pitchers that wouldn’t be a problem, however pochita is throwing his heart straight down from outter space to earth, that means there are multiple extra forces that can add onto its speed(gravity, lack of air resistance due to being in space, and potential energy tho it may be minimal), due to this we can’t assume the speed of teh heart is equal to his own attack speed.

And for the sub relative attack speed argument I really don’t see him react to the attack at all or even sense it, all you see is him vaguely looking backwards(which I’d like to point out is him most likely reacting to the sound itself of the attack, whether that be from a massive boom of the cannon or it crashing through stuff or maybe whatever sound the bang made while traveling) this is important as if we use the accepted 5 seconds for the bang he was hit with, he turned his head within about a second(as it hit the apartment building a second before him), to give him sub rel perceptions would mean he’d perceive the attack with one meter away, which is illogical as I stated before with the either the loud bang or sound crashing through obstacles.

but other than that yur

None of this refutes what I said above, and you're also bringing up random stuff that doesn't matter for some reason. Anyway, I'm done here. Could someone get a CGM to come take a look at what he's saying, and have staff review this thread? I’m not going to drag this out any further.

 

[Arkenis]

What about the other stuff boss

gushy's cooking you, you don't need me filling up the thread as well.

 

[Sammy818]

gushy's cooking you, you don't need me filling up the thread as well.

I still don’t see how I’m wrong about the gun devil emergence stuff, he had to move that fast to build up enough energy and force to bust out, that mf ain’t moving 40 times the speed of light on his own, and I ain’t see no bullets cause that explosion

 

[Sammy818]

I still don’t see how I’m wrong about the gun devil emergence stuff, he had to move that fast to build up enough energy and force to bust out, that mf ain’t moving 40 times the speed of light on his own, and I ain’t see no bullets cause that explosion

Like come on bro, we see for the tank it’s literally him speeding out of his cage, not him blowing himself out, and as agreed on he ain’t moving ftl+ on his own, if I’m wrong I’m wrong but I’d at least like to know why

Give me a reread of 176 and tell me I’m not cooking

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Word of advice Sammy, try to edit and have your responses under one post instead of multi posting, more clutter leads to staff being unwilling to evaluate your thread

 

[DaReaperMan]

What the **** did I just read? Disagree FRA.

 

[Sammy818]

Word of advice Sammy, try to edit and have your responses under one post instead of multi posting, more clutter leads to staff being unwilling to evaluate your thread

This was always 1 percent chance I’m ngl, BUT YOU MISS 100 PERCENT OF THE SHOTS YOU DONT TAKE

 

[ElJoaki5]

Also agree with the yoru summoning downgrade. Its pretty clear Yoru is the one who breaks it out, she pulls it like she did with the soap.

 

[GunshyFever]

Also agree with the yoru summoning downgrade. Its pretty clear Yoru is the one who breaks it out, she pulls it like she did with the soap.

So are we just going to choose not to read now? This was already addressed, see the above. You're making it seem as if the point in the OP wasn't addressed and is still an issue, when it was already clarified. That's misleading to those who are new.

Please keep up with the discussion if you are to comment.

 

[ElJoaki5]

So are we just going to choose not to read now? This was already addressed, see the above. You're making it seem as if the point in the OP wasn't addressed and is still an issue, when it was already clarified. That's misleading to those who are new.

Please keep up with the discussion if you are to comment.

You addressed it, yeah. But your addressment is wrong.
The thing that caused the feat is the Gun devil ramming onto the mountain, and with what speed did it do that? The one given to it by Yoru summoning it. Yoru is the one that generates this energy via speeding up the Gun Devil, the Gun Devil did literally nothing, he just got speed from someone else.
Its like if a human threw a pebble and you claimed the feat is caused by the pebble instead of the human.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm booting this into objection.lol and playing Madness over it.

Probably not I'm not that bored

 

[GunshyFever]

You addressed it, yeah. But your addressment is wrong.
The thing that caused the feat is the Gun devil ramming onto the mountain, and with what speed did it do that? The one given to it by Yoru summoning it. Yoru is the one that generates this energy via speeding up the Gun Devil, the Gun Devil did literally nothing, he just got speed from someone else.
Its like if a human threw a pebble and you claimed the feat is caused by the pebble instead of the human.

Wow, so you didn't read a word I said. No worries, let me show you where I addressed it.

This is very trifling to read and understand, but I will try to interpret it as best I can. By the "Gun Devil emergence", I believe you are referring to the feat of the 28% Gun Devil erupting from Mount Elbrus. You bring up the point that it doesn't make sense because he "didn’t break himself out", but what doesn't make sense here is actually your reasoning. The 28% Gun Devil scales to the feat because he himself caused the destruction within that area, regardless of whether he was summoned or not. The feat was achieved through his physical prowess alone, without the aid of any external force. All Yoru did was summon the Gun Devil, nothing more. Therefore, the destruction is rightfully credited to the Gun Devil. Whether or not Yoru added speed to the object is irrelevant, the resulting destruction is still the Gun Devil's. I have no idea why you are bringing up kinetic energy in relation to a destruction feat, the two have no correlation at all.

In case you still don't understand my point, let me say it again. This is not a kinetic energy feat, this is a destruction feat, two very different types of calculations. Here, speed does not matter, only the destruction caused. Do you understand?

 

[Sammy818]

I'm booting this into objection.lol and playing Madness over it.

Probably not I'm not that bored

You should tho, it would be funny

 

[GunshyFever]

This entire process is so tiring. It's almost like the staff doesn't exist as well.

 

[ElJoaki5]

Wow, so you didn't read a word I said. No worries, let me show you where I addressed it.

In case you still don't understand my point, let me say it again. This is not a kinetic energy feat, this is a destruction feat, two very different types of calculations. Here, speed does not matter, only the destruction caused. Do you understand?

Except it literally is a KE feat. With formula and everything?
It calculates the KE of the dust raised up after the Gun Devil goes through. And the KE of the dust is caused by the Gun Devils KE as it hits the mountain and transfers part of its energy to the dust. And the Gun Devils KE is caused by Yoru giving it speed due to summoning it.
The feat is caused by Yoru basically.

 

[ElJoaki5]

0.5 * 1.58217926e9 * 435.677753^2 aka 1/2*m*v^2 aka the KE formula. In what world is this not a KE feat?

 

[GunshyFever]

Except it literally is a KE feat. With formula and everything?
It calculates the KE of the dust raised up after the Gun Devil goes through. And the KE of the dust is caused by the Gun Devils KE as it hits the mountain and transfers part of its energy to the dust. And the Gun Devils KE is caused by Yoru giving it speed due to summoning it.
The feat is caused by Yoru basically.

We've had this discussion already. The scaling of the feat is the Gun Devil being able to survive the destruction caused on it's journey to Yoru.

 

[ElJoaki5]

We've had this discussion already. The scaling of the feat is the Gun Devil being able to survive the destruction caused on it's journey to Yoru.

Yoru weaponizing it kills it anyway. I dont see why gun would necessarily have to be surviving the way there, its not like its shown doing so anyway, its an assumption.

 

[Sammy818]

Yoru weaponizing it kills it anyway. I dont see why gun would necessarily have to be surviving the way there, its not like its shown doing so anyway, its an assumption.

All we do see of the 28 gun is Yoru’s arm, and considering the size of 20 percent gun that’s a massive drop off in size

 

[GunshyFever]

Yoru weaponizing it kills it anyway. I dont see why gun would necessarily have to be surviving the way there, its not like its shown doing so anyway, its an assumption.

Yoru at that point in time is only able to weaponize something if it's within her range. Hence the soap example she made in chapter 176. The bar of soap does not transform until it reaches within her vicinity.

 

[Gamecooob]

Gunshy is cooking

Disagree FRA

 

[Arkenis]

This entire process is so tiring. It's almost like the staff doesn't exist as well.

this the bigger issue! forget about chad gun boy busting mountains or whatever

 

[Kavopaco]

Disagreeing for gunshy's reasons

 

[VoidGoji]

Disagree FRA

 

[Bimbitesthedust]

Disagree for Gunshys reasons

 

[ElJoaki5]

Yoru at that point in time is only able to weaponize something if it's within her range. Hence the soap example she made in chapter 176. The bar of soap does not transform until it reaches within her vicinity.

Still doesnt mean the Gun Devil survived it. It being dead by the time it gets weaponized doesnt change anything.

 

[GunshyFever]

Still doesnt mean the Gun Devil survived it. It being dead by the time it gets weaponized doesnt change anything.

Hm, fair point. I have a calc that gives slightly better results which could serve as a decent replacement in that case.

 

[Nierre]

It's not an exaggeration to say that my love for powerscaling in general has faltered greatly. I can barely even take a moment to squint at the profiles of this verse, and every day I begin to care less and less about fixes and upgrades. However, with the knowledge I have of this verse, I'm still able to take part in threads like these and simply use it to help accurately scale the characters on this wiki. I just feel like the majority of threads like these keep arising because I'm not here to fix issues, or if that's what this is about. Anyways, enough of my ranting, here's what I have to say about the OP.

we're in the same boat my guy, generally speaking.

 

[Ruby_R_Dracula]

Hm, fair point. I have a calc that gives slightly better results which could serve as a decent replacement in that case.

do tell

 

[GunshyFever]

do tell

About a year ago, I created a new end of a 20% Gun Devil K.E calc, the one that the 2024 high - god tiers scaled to. Now I'm able to put this to use here to find the mass of the 28% Gun Devil which would be:

20% Gun Devil mass = 2.316e6 kg
28% Gun Devil mass = 2.316e6 x (28 / 20) = 3.2424e6 kg

1/2 * 3,242,400 kg * (8,849.5 m/s)^2 = 1.2696e+14 J (30.34 Kilotons of TNT)

Just realizing it's a bit lower in results by about 5 kilotons, but as long as it's correct and consistent it's alright in my book. If the former 28% Gun Devil calc cannot be used this would serve as a better replacement. It would also be nice if someone could get Dale (the creator of the calc) to speak on it himself.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Disagree FRA
Gunshy cooking as always

 

[Saqphire]

While Gunshy has already responded to most of the points, let me tackle the one the OP added on

Edit: So i definitely didn’t argue this point well enough so I’ll add on. In the accepted calc that the bullet Pochita reacted to(each panel equals one second), the bullet specifically crashes into an apartment building 2 seconds(one panel before the Pochita panel) it reaches Pochita, I believe the noise made by crashing through the building is what Pochita perceived(seems most likely when looking at the page itself), if we are to assume the timeframe of the bullet remained the same(each panel equals one second) Pochita had under 2 seconds to turn his head, however greater than 1, this timeframe is not sub relativistic(and again I want to point out the attack he “perceived” was the first bang(0.018c), not the second(0.048c) but I digress), but alas I feel like this is a losing battle of an argument

Why is one panel = one second? That has never been explicit in the story and is just headcanon to assume; plus the assumption is straight up wrong regardless as we have multiple accepted feats happening in less than a second for a panel's worth of time, such as Katana Man blitzing a Justice Devil user for example, timeframe achieved was just over 200 microseconds lol.

Another reason to not even bother with the "panel = second" assumption is that a normal human's reaction speed is 0.25s, which is four times less than one second; using the assumption is basically saying humans and devils, who both get blitzed within one panel in the series, have four times slower reactions than normal in CSM which is just an unproven claim.

The second argument (Pochita percieving the second bang or not) was already adressed above so I won't clog up further. Disagree FRA