Cursed Energy Manipulation PNA Changes

[Arkenis]

With new rules implemented, there are a couple changes the Cursed Energy Page need.

1. An ability is regular only if it is consistently shown, practiced, acknowledged, and stated within the energy system. Merely having multiple characters perform it, isn't enough. An example is Chakra's Free Movement ability that ninjas learn early on. This is something shown, practiced, acknowledged and stated to be something all ninjas can do through skill.
2. If there is reasonable support or logic that a character could perform an ability, assign a “Likely” rating for clarity.
3. Do not apply leveling unless the story clearly defines and characterizes it (e.g., Jonin, Special Grade Sorcerer, Daikaiju, Liners).

Abilities

Spoiler

• Damage Reduction (Large amounts of cursed energy can restrict damage. Todo is able to focus his cursed energy in one spot to minimize damage)
• Limited Instinctive Action (Aoi Todo is able to instinctively focus cursed energy to block attacks on certain parts of the body like he does with Mahito)

Remove Damage Reduction. One of the examples is Yuta, the guy with the second highest amount of ce, no one scales to his amount to restrict damage to a minimal. The other example is not even the same context either. One is Yuta having so much ce throughout his body he keeps damage to a minimum, the other is Todo having to focus it in one spot. And just because Hakari did it against the steam explosion does not qualify it for all first grades either. So unless there's statements and people practicing this, etc, it should be removed or a likely rating should be given for both for clarity on the validity of every other first grade sorcerer being capable of it.

• Free Movement (Walking; Reggie was able to stand on non-tangible, permeable shadow by reinforcing his feet with cursed energy)

Walking on liquid is never shown for anyone else, not even the cursed spirit who is naturally used to using cursed energy walks on water. Why would Reggie be advance? This can also be likely to clarify the validity of it or just be a one off thing since it is barring Gojo and Sukuna running on buildings.

• Improved Instinctive Action (Cursed Energy can be used to protect the soul subconsciously. People that would apply to this are people similar in experience to Kento Nanami)

This stay and applies to just first grades as it already does.

Resistances

Spoiler

• Extreme Heat & Fire Manipulation (Sorcerers like Naobito and Nanami can survive in Jogo's presence when he is angry, who can char the body of a man and vaporize even the ashes of the bodies of dozens just by moving his finger. Jogo is also able to vaporize metal with a casual attack, while against Sorcerers he is only able to cause large burns that lead to death)
• Status Effect Inducement (Having a large reservoir or high output of Cursed Energy mitigates the effects of Kashimo's electricity)
• Limited Soul Manipulation & Transmutation (Experienced sorcerers such as Kento Nanami have a natural flow of cursed energy that protects their soul from Mahito's soul and biological attacks)

Besides the heat/fire resistance, Status Effect Inducement should be removed. Why would we scale first grades to Hakari's infinite cursed energy? This description is wrong also. It's not "Having a large reservoir or high output" it's "he's ignoring it through sheer cursed energy quantity and output." So you need both. First Grades do not have both infinite cursed energy nor Jackpot Hakari's output. Slight exceptions like Yuta, Ryu, or Sukuna aren't enough to apply this either and even they're iffy since they don't have Hakari's quantity which is the other half of the required traits to resist the electricity.

• Resistance: Limited Soul Manipulation & Transmutation (Experienced sorcerers such as Kento Nanami have a natural flow of cursed energy that protects their soul from Mahito's soul and biological attacks)

Soul Manipulation is its own thing, it should be given to basically the whole cast or just first grade and above.

And we change Advance Sorcerer to First Grades.

Agree with full removal for what needs it:
Agree with likely ratings for what needs it: Duedate8898, AbaddonTheDisappointment
Disagree completely, everything stays the same:
Remove Damage Redux:
Change Damage Redux to Stat amp: Duedate8898, AbaddonTheDisappointment

Edit: One more mod, just wanna clarify: Damage Reduction changed to Stat Amp. Status Effect Inducement gets a likely rating. Free Movement gets a likely rating. Soul Manipulation/Transmutation is for all, and the transmutation is Unconventional.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Yea this looks good, agreed

 

[Arkenis]

Yea this looks good, agreed

With what?

 

[Mommyleona]

Disagree with most, will reply later

 

[Breadbear83]

With free movement, during Tokyo goodwill event, the Kyoto students were talking about reinforcing their ears with cursed energy against Inumaki's cursed speech, so reinforcing on body parts can work against cursed techniques, reggie using it to walk on the non tangible, permeable Shadow of megumi domain it's following that logic, it's not the same but it's follow an already mentioned logic

Also the scans of curses not using that, the water isn't too deep so it's not even neccesary for them to bother about reinforcing their feets

 

[Arkenis]

With free movement, during Tokyo goodwill event, the Kyoto students were talking about reinforcing their ears with cursed energy against Inumaki's cursed speech, so reinforcing on body parts can work against cursed techniques,

Reinforcing is the standard, using it to walk on water isn't the same.

reggie using it to walk on the non tangible, permeable Shadow of megumi domain it's following that logic, it's not the same but it's follow an already mentioned logic

Loosely at best, not the same.

Also the scans of curses not using that, the water isn't too deep so it's not even neccesary for them to bother about reinforcing their feets

Running on it is better than not though. Feel like the fact they didn't do it, shows us this isn't something normally done even to cursed spirits.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

following, ig

 

[Rodriiogo]

• Damage Reduction (Large amounts of cursed energy can restrict damage. Todo is able to focus his cursed energy in one spot to minimize damage)

Remove Damage Reduction. One of the examples is Yuta, the guy with the second highest amount of ce, no one scales to his amount to restrict damage to a minimal. The other example is not even the same context either. One is Yuta having so much ce throughout his body he keeps damage to a minimum, the other is Todo having to focus it in one spot. And just because Hakari did it against the steam explosion does not qualify it for all first grades either. So unless there's statements and people practicing this, etc, it should be removed or a likely rating should be given for both for clarity on the validity of every other first grade sorcerer being capable of it.

That's just something any sorcerer can do though. The literal first scan with Yuta linked on the ability has this parts right before it:

Yuji says that's something every sorcerer can do and Yuta is just doing it to an extreme level because due to being an elite sorcerer and having greater accuracy in CE Control his entire body is constantly surging with that energy instead of being focused like a regular sorcerer does as Todo explains.
--
Being able to focus CE on a part of your body is something that even (basically) 0 experience Yuji in the fearsome womb arc can do by focusing it on his fist:

The only reason damage reduction is for advanced sorcerers is cause you'd need high output/large amounts of CE for that level of reinforcement which literally anyone relative to Todo (Grade 1) should have.

• Free Movement (Walking; Reggie was able to stand on non-tangible, permeable shadow by reinforcing his feet with cursed energy)

Walking on liquid is never shown for anyone else, not even the cursed spirit who is naturally used to using cursed energy walks on water. Why would Reggie be advance? This can also be likely to clarify the validity of it or just be a one off thing since it is barring Gojo and Sukuna running on buildings.

In your own first scan Gojo is doing the same thing to himself and Yuji... Yuji himself is pointing that out. Reggie's feat is once again just simple cursed energy reinforcement, anyone that scales to his level of CE output/reinforcement would be able to do the same if they wanted to.

Cursed spirits not using it is simply because they didn't need to in that case. They weren't being sucked in by the water like Reggie was (it's the whole reason he even used reinforcement to begin with) and the water was on their feet level.

• Status Effect Inducement (Having a large reservoir or high output of Cursed Energy mitigates the effects of Kashimo's electricity)

Status Effect Inducement should be removed. Why would we scale first grades to Hakari's infinite cursed energy? This description is wrong also. It's not "Having a large reservoir or high output" it's "he's ignoring it through sheer cursed energy quantity and output." So you need both. First Grades do not have both infinite cursed energy nor Jackpot Hakari's output. Slight exceptions like Yuta, Ryu, or Sukuna aren't enough to apply this either and even they're iffy since they don't have Hakari's quantity which is the other half of the required traits to resist the electricity.

Because Hakari doesn't only mitigate the effects of Kashimo's electricity while in Jackpot lol. He's no longer in jackpot when he enters probability change and the effects are still being mitigated by his raw output.

I won't say it should exactly be "any grade 1" that scales to this however literally anyone who is relative or superior to Base Hakari should indeed keep that resistance.
That's why the scan says that output can also mitigate the effects of the electricity. The higher quantity is just making it easier for JP Hakari to do and is a factor regardless because of the fact that quantity of CE is needed to consistently output the levels of output that Hakari does. The Infinite CE has nothing to do with this.

And we change Advance Sorcerer to First Grades.

Aren't all advance sorcerers only first grades or above? (I agree to change it to that if not)

I'm fine with the change of moving resistance to Soul Manip to everyone though.

 

[Arkenis]

That's just something any sorcerer can do though. The literal first scan with Yuta linked on the ability has this parts right before it:

No they can't and the scans you just showed aren't them doing damage reduction, that's just reinforcement. Yuta's damage reduction is due to how much ce he has.

Being able to focus CE on a part of your body is something that even (basically) 0 experience Yuji in the fearsome womb arc can do by focusing it on his fist:

We're focusing on the instinctive part here. Todo did so through instincts.

The only reason damage reduction is for advanced sorcerers is cause you'd need high output/large amounts of CE for that level of reinforcement which literally anyone relative to Todo (Grade 1) should have.

So then it is not something any sorcerer can do...

In your own first scan Gojo is doing the same thing to himself and Yuji... Yuji himself is pointing that out. Reggie's feat is once again just simple cursed energy reinforcement, anyone that scales to his level of CE output/reinforcement would be able to do the same if they wanted to.

Gojo floating through infinity.

Because Hakari doesn't only mitigate the effects of Kashimo's electricity while in Jackpot lol. He's no longer in jackpot when he enters probability change and the effects are still being mitigated by his raw output.

I won't say it should exactly be "any grade 1" that scales to this however literally anyone who is relative or superior to Base Hakari should indeed keep that resistance.
That's why the scan says that output can also mitigate the effects of the electricity. The higher quantity is just making it easier for JP Hakari to do and is a factor regardless because of the fact that quantity of CE is needed to consistently output the levels of output that Hakari does. The Infinite CE has nothing to do with this.

The scan's of JP Hakari not base, Love Train was playing when Kashimo remarks on the lack of effect, so he already had the ce bonus and got another. But so what if base Hakari resists. Multiple characters doing it isn't enough, and here it's just one that demonstrates it.

That's why the scan says that output can also mitigate the effects of the electricity. The higher quantity is just making it easier for JP Hakari to do and is a factor regardless because of the fact that quantity of CE is needed to consistently output the levels of output that Hakari does. The Infinite CE has nothing to do with this.

It says quantity and output not also. Both are needed.

Aren't all advance sorcerers only first grades or above? (I agree to change it to that if not)

Nah, I forget why I put advance on page before, but first grade makes sense and its actually a rank in verse.

 

[Rodriiogo]

No they can't and the scans you just showed aren't them doing damage reduction, that's just reinforcement. Yuta's damage reduction is due to how much ce he has.

Which is why Todo is also mentioned, all sorcerers can do reinforcement but only Todo level (and above) characters have enough CE / Output to actually minimize the damage significantly.
To re-iterate myself:

The only reason damage reduction is for advanced sorcerers is cause you'd need high output/large amounts of CE for that level of reinforcement which literally anyone relative to Todo (Grade 1) should have.

Since we know Todo level CE is enough to minimize damages as well.

We're focusing on the instinctive part here. Todo did so through instincts.

I wasn't addressing the instictive reaction but the damage reduction here. And what he does through instinct is the thing every sorcerer can do (reinforcement), his CE is just powerful enough to minimize damages.

So then it is not something any sorcerer can do...

Minimize damages? No, that's why Damage reduction is on Advanced Sorcerers and not on Basic. I simply said all sorcerers can indeed focus their CE on specific parts of their body, but only characters with CE comparable or above Todo have enough to, as I said, minimize the damage significantly.

Gojo floating through infinity.

He stops doing that and puts Yuji on the water:

Anime even shows this better:

That's why Yuji's question is "Why aren't we sinking?" and not "Why are we floating"

The scan's of JP Hakari not base, Love Train was playing when Kashimo remarks on the lack of effect, so he already had the ce bonus and got another. But so what if base Hakari resists. Multiple characters doing it isn't enough, and here it's just one that demonstrates it.

But if you agree that the resistance comes from quantity and output, then as I said:

I won't say it should exactly be "any grade 1" that scales to this however literally anyone who is relative or superior to Base Hakari should indeed keep that resistance.

It says quantity and output not also. Both are needed.

The higher quantity is just making it easier for JP Hakari to do and is a factor regardless because of the fact that quantity of CE is needed to consistently output the levels of output that Hakari does.

 

[Arkenis]

Which is why Todo is also mentioned, all sorcerers can do reinforcement but only Todo level (and above) characters have enough CE / Output to actually minimize the damage significantly.
To re-iterate myself:

There's no evidence this is a level thing, nor is it something they practice or acknowledge as something sorcerers can do. The fact this was through instincts and had Mahito surprised, makes it more likely Todo's own survival instincts kicked in rather than something first grades can do.

Since we know Todo level CE is enough to minimize damages as well.

Not a defined level, nor would he be a benchmark.

He stops doing that and puts Yuji on the water:

Anime even shows this better:

That's why Yuji's question is "Why aren't we sinking?" and not "Why are we floating"

It's through infinity regardless. Unless you're saying Gojo applied cursed energy to Yuji's feet and decided to not explain this ability to him.

But if you agree that the resistance comes from quantity and output, then as I said:

I won't say it should exactly be "any grade 1" that scales to this however literally anyone who is relative or superior to Base Hakari should indeed keep that resistance.

People can scale to Hakari, it doesn't mean it gets a blanket application. Neither is this reasonable when we know first grades have a wide range of skill, output and quantity.

The higher quantity is just making it easier for JP Hakari to do and is a factor regardless because of the fact that quantity of CE is needed to consistently output the levels of output that Hakari does.

Where's it said "just making it easier"? I may have missed that.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

disagree with CRT due to Goat Rodrii's reasonings

 

[OjeTheArcher15]

Disagree with free movement being removed
The counter seems too weak because one can easily argue Hanami didn't want to reinforce his legs to stand on water

We know Reggie only did it to avoid being sucked into the shadow
Plus the finger bearer would have done it as well, if not he'll also fall into the shadow

We also see Dagon being surprised that Toji can run on water without cursed energy which would be weird if CE can do that in the first place

 

[ShionAH]

Why would Hanami want to walk on water??

 

[Mommyleona]

Rodri beat me to it, he said pretty much everything that was needed to be said

 

[Arkenis]

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[SunDaGamer]

Free Movement (Walking; Reggie was able to stand on non-tangible, permeable shadow by reinforcing his feet with cursed energy)

Their Free Movement isn't for freely water walking afaik, the page just lists the fact that reinforcing your footing with Cursed Energy prevents you from sinking through Chimera Shadow Garden's surface, which is a permeable shadow. That's something that everyone who uses Cursed Energy should be able to do.

Regarding Damage Reduction, the actual justification should be for Teen Gojo being able to focus his reinforcement to prevent further damage after Toji impaled him through the chest with a whole katana. Focusing all of your Cursed Energy into a body part to boost your durability in that spot is just Statistics Amplification like what Ko in Hunter x Hunter does (the reason we don't see sorcerers doing that more often is because that would leave the rest of their body completely vulnerable with normal human dura and their opponent can read the flow of their Cursed Energy which would make the vulnerability glaringly obvious).

 

[Arkenis]

Their Free Movement isn't for freely water walking afaik, the page just lists the fact that reinforcing your footing with Cursed Energy prevents you from sinking through Chimera Shadow Garden's surface, which is a permeable shadow. That's something that everyone who uses Cursed Energy should be able to do.

Well this is kinda what the crt and my crt are for, stopping this supposed "should" argument. Only two characters have done it, if this free movement were something basic we'd see it used more often in verse, but it isn't. Not only that, but this is arbitrarily given to "advance sorcerers" with no basis. If we're gonna keep framing it as a shadow, then I propose this just be attributed to CE's npi nothing else.

Regarding Damage Reduction, the actual justification should be for Teen Gojo being able to focus his reinforcement to prevent further damage after Toji impaled him through the chest with a whole katana. Focusing all of your Cursed Energy into a body part to boost your durability in that spot is just Statistics Amplification like what Ko in Hunter x Hunter does (the reason we don't see sorcerers doing that more often is because that would leave the rest of their body completely vulnerable with normal human dura and their opponent can read the flow of their Cursed Energy which would make the vulnerability glaringly obvious).

No this isn't damage reduction either. He's just using the energy to prevent further damage. He's protecting himself man. I do agree though, this is just basic stat amplification. Also we see Hakari do it through a bv. So still damage reduction should be removed and just add this to their stat amp section.

 

[Duedate8898]

Damage Reduction should be removed, but not because not all sorcerer's are capable of this. It should be removed because it's just Statistics Amplification which is already on the CEM page.

Resistance to Status Effect Inducement I think is fair for removal unless we're going to add a Special Grade Sorcerer section to CEM and in that case it should for sure be made into a Likely as it does not meet the standards for Rule 1, but should for 2 since the idea here that Kashimo gives is that high output of CE can protect against his cursed energy trait.

Put a likely on Free Movement since while it doesn't meet the criteria for rule 1, it does meet it for rule 2. What Reggie is doing in order to not sink should reasonably be applicable to any other sorcerer in the verse.

Same with the Resistance to Soul Manipulation/Transmutation, just put a likely in front of it. I might add that we could add to the transmutation as Unconventional since its a unique mechanic of bodies/souls in the verse.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Well this is kinda what the crt and my crt are for, stopping this supposed "should" argument. Only two characters have done it, if this free movement were something basic we'd see it used more often in verse, but it isn't. Not only that, but this is arbitrarily given to "advance sorcerers" with no basis. If we're gonna keep framing it as a shadow, then I propose this just be attributed to CE's npi nothing else.

It's not shown more often because Megumi doesn't go around popping Chimera Shadow Garden on every character. If it's said that it's done through Cursed Energy reinforcement (an ability that literally everybody with Cursed Energy Manipulation has) and it's shown to be done more than once then there's no reason to restrict the ability, I already think it should just be moved to the main Cursed Energy tabber instead of sectioned off to Advanced Sorcerers.

He's just using the energy to prevent further damage

which greatly reduced the damage he should've taken from getting impaled

 

[Arkenis]

It's not shown more often because Megumi doesn't go around popping Chimera Shadow Garden on every character. If it's said that it's done through Cursed Energy reinforcement (an ability that literally everybody with Cursed Energy Manipulation has) and it's shown to be done more than once then there's no reason to restrict the ability, I already think it should just be moved to the main Cursed Energy tabber instead of sectioned off to Advanced Sorcerers.

We all recognize that cursed energy reinforcement has varying degree of skill and usage right? So we can't assume limited instances (Megumi and Reggie) now applies to everyone. If you read rule one, this is covered that just because multiple characters do something, does not mean everyone gets it. We just remove this as free movement because we have no other examples besides standing on shadows, aka unique to anything else, so instead NPI fits much better.

which greatly reduced the damage he should've taken from getting impaled

No it protected from further damage not reduced the damage. Gojo gives an analogy that the swords like a needle, the ce acts as protection (sweater) from further damage.

 

[Arkenis]

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[Phsccarvalho]

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[Anonymous_Learner]

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man who quoted himself about bumping for an eternity into an empty void now bumps for eternity in an empty void

 

[Arkenis]

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