Danzo Shimura vs Obito Uchiha

[Megaquake2012]

Danzo succeeds in defeating Sasuke at the Samurai Bridge and thus Tobi/Obito is forced to jump in and protect him. Danzo uses a forbidden jutsu (plot convienency) to regenerate his eyes, chakra, stamina, etc. including Shisui's eye to fight 'Madara'

Thus the Shinobi of Darkness faces off against The Masked Man.

Who wins?



The Masked Ma


The Shinobi of Darkness

 

[Purgy]

Considering Danzo was planning on saving Koto for Obito, I think it's fair to say he'd use it instantly if they were to have actually fought. If he doesn't then Obito stomps him. Danzo is at an even bigger disadvantage here than usual aswell since you have the Obito from after Sasuke fought Danzo, meaning Obito saw the entire fight and knows all of Danzo's abilities.

 

[AstralKing7]

Obito stomps Danzo with ease.

 

[Megaquake2012]

Considering Danzo was planning on saving Koto for Obito, I think it's fair to say he'd use it instantly if they were to have actually fought. If he doesn't then Obito stomps him. Danzo is at an even bigger disadvantage here than usual aswell since you have the Obito from after Sasuke fought Danzo, meaning Obito saw the entire fight and knows all of Danzo's abilities.

So what happens if Danzo uses the Kotomatsukami on Obito?

 

[Megaquake2012]

Obito stomps Danzo with ease.

How would Obito get past the Kotomatsukami and the fact that Danzo has 10 Izanagis?

 

[Purgy]

If Danzo manages to use Koto on Obito he wins, there's not really any way to say otherwise. He might even end up turning Obito into a henchman or something since it's totally possible with Koto.

 

[Megaquake2012]

So far, 1-0 since the only Obito supporter didn't explain his stance.

 

[Purgy]

I didn't say Danzo wins.

I said he could win if he manages to use Koto on Obito. That isn't very likely though since Obito saw his entire fight with Sasuke and already knows that Danzo has Koto and what it does.

I'm indecisive.

 

[Megaquake2012]

I didn't say Danzo wins.
I said he could win if he manages to use Koto on Obito. That isn't very likely though since Obito saw his entire fight with Sasuke and already knows that Danzo has Koto and what it does.

I'm indecisive.

How would Obito go about avoiding the Kotomatsukami then? He cant Kamui constantly since he'd need to become tangible at some point in order to properly fight.

 

[Purgy]

He's much faster than Danzo, possibly could blitz or at worst could maybe use izanagi to save himself from being effected by Koto (Danzo would waste the eye but it would have no effect on Obito) but that's just hypothetical.

 

[Megaquake2012]

He's much faster than Danzo, possibly could blitz or at worst could maybe use izanagi to save himself from being effected by Koto (Danzo would waste the eye but it would have no effect on Obito) but that's just hypothetical.

Wouldnt Obito have to know he's in the Kotomatsukami in order to use the Izanagi? And I dont think speed matters, atleast initially due to the amount of Izanagis on Danzo.

 

[Purgy]

He's much faster than Danzo, possibly could blitz or at worst could maybe use izanagi to save himself from being effected by Koto (Danzo would waste the eye but it would have no effect on Obito) but that's just hypothetical.

Wouldnt Obito have to know he's in the Kotomatsukami in order to use the Izanagi? And I dont think speed matters, atleast initially due to the amount of Izanagis on Danzo.

Obito is aware of Koto and that Danzo has it though, Izanagi can be set up to activate under certain conditions so it's plausible though not likely. The speed can play an advantage, e.g since Obito knows Danzo has Koto and will use it on him he could just blitz and suck him in the Kamui dimension and there would be nothing Danzo could do about it. But since Danzo has already acknowledged that he's going to use Koto on Obito I do think it's pretty likely that Danzo will use it at the start of the fight but I can't say for certain.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Idk if knowledge on Koto would change many things

 

[Purgy]

What makes you say that?

 

[Megaquake2012]

He's much faster than Danzo, possibly could blitz or at worst could maybe use izanagi to save himself from being effected by Koto (Danzo would waste the eye but it would have no effect on Obito) but that's just hypothetical.

Wouldnt Obito have to know he's in the Kotomatsukami in order to use the Izanagi? And I dont think speed matters, atleast initially due to the amount of Izanagis on Danzo.

Obito is aware of Koto and that Danzo has it though, Izanagi can be set up to activate under certain conditions so it's plausible though not likely. The speed can play an advantage, e.g since Obito knows Danzo has Koto and will use it on him he could just blitz and suck him in the Kamui dimension and there would be nothing Danzo could do about it. But since Danzo has already acknowledged that he's going to use Koto on Obito I do think it's pretty likely that Danzo will use it at the start of the fight but I can't say for certain.

How much faster is Obito than Danzo? Both are MHS+. And setting the Izanagi to go off later may or may not work. Danzo could simply use the Kotomatsukami on Obito once, put a curse mark on him and ensure that even if Obito does go rampant afterwards, he cant do anything to harm him.

And that's if Danzo wants to keep Obito as a weapon and doesn't just outright kill him and take his eyes.

 

[Purgy]

You're right, I thought this version of him was listed as Sub-relativistic on his profile.

The Izanagi thing might allow Obito to avoid being under Koto but I'll just say Danzo wins the majority since Obito can't do anything against Koto without Izanagi.

 

[Megaquake2012]

You're right, I thought this version of him was listed as Sub-relativistic on his profile.
The Izanagi thing might allow Obito to avoid being under Koto but I'll just say Danzo wins the majority since Obito can't do anything against Koto without Izanagi.

And I already explained how even with the Izanagi, Obito likely goes down anyway. So I take it you're voting for Danzo?

 

[Purgy]

You didn't explain how he'd go down even with Izanagi.

You just said it may not work, and you're right. It might not, but it could.

Yes, Danzo wins the majority e.g out of 10 battles he'd win 8 or 9

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I'm very confident that Obito knows that Danzo would attempt to use Kotoamatsukami on him. And would program his spare Sharingan accordingly to counter its affects via Izanagi. He stated at the end of Sasuke's giht that he'd be taking Shusui's eye, so there's no way he doesn't know that Danzo would be capable of using it.

If Izanagi can undo being pulped, beheaded, etc, etc. I can say with the utmost confidence that it could restore Obito to a state prior to being hit with Kotoamatsukami. And once he realized Danzo was about to fight him, he'd probably program his eye accordingly.

Danzo also likely doesn't know that Obito has a spare sharingan of his own.

And ironically enough, Obito's own genjutsu feats are actually in the same weight class as Kotoamatsukami. Obito was able to control a Perfect Jinjurichi like a puppet for years. That's easily Kotoamatsukami level, if not greater. As nonsensical as that sounds, that's the truth. So he could just Genjutsu Danzo into offing himself.

Best case scenario? Danzo uses Kotoamatsukami on Obito, but his spare Sharingan activates and restores him to his previous state. Obito and Danzo fight for awhile, with Danzo being unable to land a single blow on Obito, Obito likely one-shots Danzo repeatedly untill he runs out of spare Sharingan, and that is that.

Minato implied that Obito was a greater threat than Pain, and Pain also takes his orders directly from Obito. Nagato wouldn't let himself be pushed around by someone he was more powerfull than.

Furthermore, Danzo was getting bullied by Taka Sasuke after he put the moves on the Five Kage, and was probably approaching blindness as well.

Obito wins, I'd go so far as to say he stomps to be honest. He's very well equipped to counter anything Danzo has, and I can't debate otherwise to save my life.

 

[Megaquake2012]

I'm very confident that Obito knows that Danzo would attempt to use Kotoamatsukami on him. And would program his spare Sharingan accordingly to counter its affects via Izanagi. He stated at the end of Sasuke's giht that he'd be taking Shusui's eye, so there's no way he doesn't know that Danzo would be capable of using it.
If Izanagi can undo being pulped, beheaded, etc, etc. I can say with the utmost confidence that it could restore Obito to a state prior to being hit with Kotoamatsukami. And once he realized Danzo was about to fight him, he'd probably program his eye accordingly.

Danzo also likely doesn't know that Obito has a spare sharingan of his own.

And ironically enough, Obito's own genjutsu feats are actually in the same weight class as Kotoamatsukami. Obito was able to control a Perfect Jinjurichi like a puppet for years. That's easily Kotoamatsukami level, if not greater. As nonsensical as that sounds, that's the truth. So he could just Genjutsu Danzo into offing himself.

Best case scenario? Danzo uses Kotoamatsukami on Obito, but his spare Sharingan activates and restores him to his previous state. Obito and Danzo fight for awhile, with Danzo being unable to land a single blow on Obito, Obito likely one-shots Danzo repeatedly untill he runs out of spare Sharingan, and that is that.

Minato implied that Obito was a greater threat than Pain, and Pain also takes his orders directly from Obito. Nagato wouldn't let himself be pushed around by someone he was more powerfull than.

Furthermore, Danzo was getting bullied by Taka Sasuke after he put the moves on the Five Kage, and was probably approaching blindness as well.

Obito wins, I'd go so far as to say he stomps to be honest. He's very well equipped to counter anything Danzo has, and I can't debate otherwise to save my life.

Danzo was holding back against Taka Sasuke as he needed to conserve chakra to fight Obito and he didn't have Shisui's eye avaliable.

Also I already explained even with programming, Danzo can simply put a curse mark on Obito or just straight up end him instantly. All it takes is a few seconds. Also doesnt Izanagi need a sign to activate? Not sure how programming works but I assume it's the same. In that time, Danzo has Obito under his genjutsu. It requires no eye contact.

Also wasn't it stated Danzo could likely control the Nine Tails? Not sure if that includes Naruto but that should count for something no?

 

[YungManzi]

How many fights has Danzo been in where he's had access to Koto?

Because him winning relies on him using it very early.

 

[Purgy]

Danzo needs to touch somebody to put his curse mark on them, Obito is never ever letting Danzo touch him, he's too quick when going intangible. And again, Obito watched his entire fight with Sasuke meaning Obito saw Danzo use the curse mark on Sasuke.

 

[Megaquake2012]

How many fights has Danzo been in where he's had access to Koto?
Because him winning relies on him using it very early.

None tbh, he's only had like, three fights in the series and one was against fodder black ops and the other two he simply didnt have Shisui's eye.

Why is that relevant though? He can likely begin with it.

 

[Purgy]

It's probable he'll use it extremely early since he said he's saving it for Obito and knows how much of a threat he is.

 

[Megaquake2012]

Danzo needs to touch somebody to put his curse mark on them, Obito is never ever letting Danzo touch him, he's too quick when going intangible. And again, Obito watched his entire fight with Sasuke meaning Obito saw Danzo use the curse mark on Sasuke.

As I said, if Danzo uses the Kotomatsukami on Obito. Even if Obito is stunned for a few seconds, Danzo can just put the curse mark on him and bam. I dont know if the Izanagi negates curse marks.

OR Danzo can simply kill Obito in those few seconds.

 

[Purgy]

You're circling now.

If Danzo uses Koto then there's a chance Obito has already prepared Izanagi.

If Danzo uses curse mark he'd never be able to touch Obito due to intangibility.

 

[YungManzi]

Also, to respond to something said earlier.

Hell no!! Obito's basic genjutsu is not Kotoamatsukami level!!

Now, with that said, could Obito also trap Danzo in a genjutsu?

Maybe. Sasuke has feats of using genjustu on Danzo, but idk if the genjutsu started when Danzo could still use the sharingan he had.

 

[Megaquake2012]

You're circling now.
If Danzo uses Koto then there's a chance Obito has already prepared Izanagi.

If Danzo uses curse mark he'd never be able to touch Obito due to intangibility.

Again, Izanagi needs to be manually activated. Kotomatsukami is instantaneous. Thus Danzo should be quicker on the draw. Even if Obito prepared Izanagi to activate a few seconds in advance. That's all Danzo needs to kill him with a wind style or such.

And I don't believe Obito is constantly intangible? Espescially when under Genjutsu.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Danzo was holding back against Taka Sasuke as he needed to conserve chakra to fight Obito and he didn't have Shisui's eye avaliable.

Also I already explained even with programming, Danzo can simply put a curse mark on Obito or just straight up end him instantly. All it takes is a few seconds. Also doesnt Izanagi need a sign to activate? Not sure how programming works but I assume it's the same. In that time, Danzo has Obito under his genjutsu. It requires no eye contact.

Also wasn't it stated Danzo could likely control the Nine Tails? Not sure if that includes Naruto but that should count for something no?

Uhh, where is this coming from? Danzo had no reason to hold back against Sasuke. If he was that much stronger than Sasuke, he wouldn't be fighting in a manner that resulted in him dying over and over again. He also wouldn't rush a Susanoo with a Kunai(lol).

By the end of the fight, Danzo was very clearly exhausted, and not far from death. So saying he was holding back is ridiculous and you know it.

...do you not understand how Izanagi works? It doesn't require any hand seals, no nothing to activate. It can even activate post-mortem as we've seen with Obito, Madara, and Danzo himself. If it can be programmed to activate long after death, seconds after death, after having your body pulverized, there's no reason it couldn't be used to undo Kotoamatsukami.

And this seal you speaki of is used on characters like Sai, who are waaaaayyy below Taka Sasuke. Let alone Obito. And he wouldn't even get a chance to place said seal anyways, as Izanagi would undo that too.

Obito could control the Full Nine Tails with his base Sharingan at 14!, and controlled a Perfect Jinurichi like a puppet for years. Are you trying to tell me Danzo is above that?

And I haven't even mentioned that this wiki classifies Danzo at 7-C. Even if you wanked him to 7-A, he's still far inferior to Obito AP and Dura wise. As Obito is implied to be well above Pain.

 

[Purgy]

Izanagi doesn't need to be manually activated, it needs to be manually set up. It can activate automatically e.g when Madara used it after Hashirama killed him.

I said Danzo would use it early, but saying he's going to instantly cast it the second the battle begins is a bit far fetched.

Obito's Genjutsu feats are far superior to Danzo's except Koto, if anybody is being Genjutsu'd it's him.

 

[Megaquake2012]

Also, to respond to something said earlier.
Hell no!! Obito's basic genjutsu is not Kotoamatsukami level!!

Now, with that said, could Obito also trap Danzo in a genjutsu?

Maybe. Sasuke has feats of using genjustu on Danzo, but idk if the genjutsu started when Danzo could still use the sharingan he had.

Sasuke merely caught Danzo offguard with his genjutsu. But otherwise, Danzo could dispell it fairly easily.

That wont work twice on him and yeah, he didnt have Shisui's eye then so there's also that.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Danzo has a good shot against most Naruto characters with insta Kotoamatsukami. But Obito is just haxxed as hell.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Also, to respond to something said earlier.
Hell no!! Obito's basic genjutsu is not Kotoamatsukami level!!

Now, with that said, could Obito also trap Danzo in a genjutsu?

Maybe. Sasuke has feats of using genjustu on Danzo, but idk if the genjutsu started when Danzo could still use the sharingan he had.

Sasuke merely caught Danzo offguard with his genjutsu. But otherwise, Danzo could dispell it fairly easily.
That wont work twice on him and yeah, he didnt have Shisui's eye then so there's also that.

...

Are you serious? You're forgetting the countless times Sasuke bodied him with his Susanoo, and Amaterasu. Plus, Sasuke at this pont was exchausted, and going blind.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Also, to respond to something said earlier.
Hell no!! Obito's basic genjutsu is not Kotoamatsukami level!!

Now, with that said, could Obito also trap Danzo in a genjutsu?

Maybe. Sasuke has feats of using genjustu on Danzo, but idk if the genjutsu started when Danzo could still use the sharingan he had.

I mean... does Kotoamatsukami have any feats on the level of puppeting a Perfect Jinjurichi for years? Not definitive proof it's Koto level. But I'd argue Obito MS Genjutsu is in the same weight class.

 

[Purgy]

Koto overpowered Kabuto's Edo Tensei, and he was enhanced with Hashirama's cells so the Jutsu was extra potent. It also works by making the victim unaware they're under a Genjutsu so they can never escape. (Excluding Mifune that was a special circumstance). I'd say it's superior to Obito's Genjutsu.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Koto overpowered Kabuto's Edo Tensei, and he was enhanced with Hashirama's cells so the Jutsu was extra potent. It also works by making the victim unaware they're under a Genjutsu so they can never escape. (Excluding Mifune that was a special circumstance). I'd say it's superior to Obito's Genjutsu.

It's difficult to quantify this particular feat. Some people try to say Koto is Infinite Tsyukiyomi lvl, but Kabuto also nailed Edo Itachi with a genjutsu he couldn't break himself. Does that mean Kabuto's Genjutsu is also IT lvl? No! And Koto is definitely not IT level.

IT didn't work on Edo characters because they weren't truly alive or something of that sort.

I'm not saying Obito's MS Genjutsu is Koto lvl. But it's lightyears ahead of anything in Danzo's arsenal.

 

[Megaquake2012]

Danzo was holding back against Taka Sasuke as he needed to conserve chakra to fight Obito and he didn't have Shisui's eye avaliable.

Also I already explained even with programming, Danzo can simply put a curse mark on Obito or just straight up end him instantly. All it takes is a few seconds. Also doesnt Izanagi need a sign to activate? Not sure how programming works but I assume it's the same. In that time, Danzo has Obito under his genjutsu. It requires no eye contact.

Also wasn't it stated Danzo could likely control the Nine Tails? Not sure if that includes Naruto but that should count for something no?

Uhh, where is this coming from? Danzo had no reason to hold back against Sasuke. If he was that much stronger than Sasuke, he wouldn't be fighting in a manner that resulted in him dying over and over again. He also wouldn't rush a Susanoo with a Kunai(lol).
By the end of the fight, Danzo was very clearly exhausted, and not far from death. So saying he was holding back is ridiculous and you know it.

...do you not understand how Izanagi works? It doesn't require any hand seals, no nothing to activate. It can even activate post-mortem as we've seen with Obito, Madara, and Danzo himself. If it can be programmed to activate long after death, seconds after death, after having your body pulverized, there's no reason it couldn't be used to undo Kotoamatsukami.

And this seal you speaki of is used on characters like Sai, who are waaaaayyy below Taka Sasuke. Let alone Obito. And he wouldn't even get a chance to place said seal anyways, as Izanagi would undo that too.

Obito could control the Full Nine Tails with his base Sharingan at 14!, and controlled a Perfect Jinurichi like a puppet for years. Are you trying to tell me Danzo is above that?

And I haven't even mentioned that this wiki classifies Danzo at 7-C. Even if you wanked him to 7-A, he's still far inferior to Obito AP and Dura wise. As Obito is implied to be well above Pain.

Taka Sasuke got curse marked too during the fight? Furthermore, Danzo stated in the fight that he needed to conserve chakra because he knew he had to fight Obito after defeating Sasuke. Plus again, he didn't have Shisui's eye and he also straight up could've killed Sasuke at one point (the curse mark scene) if he didnt monologue. Hell even the profile for Danzo lists that Sasuke would've been defeated by him had he not held back.

And maybe this applies only to Danzo but I'm pretty sure he needed to activate the Izanagi manually and can find scans of that. Thus even if you are programming it for later, it still needs to be activated likely. And are you saying Obito is > Shisui? Because I'm pretty sure Shisui's Kotomatsukami is considered one of the most overpowered genjutsu in all Naruto.

And Obito is listed as likely 7-A, but his main tier is town just like Danzo. Durability doesn't matter too much due to Danzo's Izanagi.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Taka Sasuke got curse marked too during the fight? Furthermore, Danzo stated in the fight that he needed to conserve chakra because he knew he had to fight Obito after defeating Sasuke. Plus again, he didn't have Shisui's eye and he also straight up could've killed Sasuke at one point (the curse mark scene) if he didnt monologue. Hell even the profile for Danzo lists that Sasuke would've been defeated by him had he not held back.

And maybe this applies only to Danzo but I'm pretty sure he needed to activate the Izanagi manually and can find scans of that. Thus even if you are programming it for later, it still needs to be activated likely. And are you saying Obito is > Shisui? Because I'm pretty sure Shisui's Kotomatsukami is considered one of the most overpowered genjutsu in all Naruto.

And Obito is listed as likely 7-A, but his main tier is town just like Danzo. Durability doesn't matter too much due to Danzo's Izanagi.

Koto was the only thing that could've gauranteed Danzo the W in that fight.

You're still going on about the Curse Mark? Something that Taka Sasuke was able to actively resist and fight against? Let alone Obito who likely scales above Pain? The profile for Danzo says no such thing, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not saying anything is set in stone...but I mean... I'm sorry dude but Obito's own Genjutsu feats are honestly more impressive than anything I've seen from Shisui or any of his eyes. Overiding Edo Tensei is debatably stronger, but mostly unquantifiable.

Izanagi clearly doesn't need any complex hand signs. We've seen this with Madara and Obito himself.

The scaling on this wiki is outdated, and not nessecarily foolproof. Obito in particular has no reason to have a 7-C key, as his feats are solidly in the 7-A weight class. (Contending with Minato at 14, Nagato directly taking orders from him, Minato telling Naruto be be more worried about Obito than pain) Obito only has to kill Danzo as many times as is needed for him to exhaust his Sharingan, while Obito enjoys the luxury of being untouchable.

 

[Lop222]

obito via kamui.

 

[Kidkinsey]

why are we saying taka sasuke? taka sasuke was still tired from the itachi fight and was a NOOB with his MS, the sasuke danzo fought was experinced with his MS and getting stronger as the fight went on

also does koto need eye contact to work? i heard somwhere you just have to look in the general direction of the person

anyways even if obito does get hit with koto he can revive with izanagi, the curse seal on him is meaningless because he can just kamui